[MObreck]

Ninety-Six, on 04 March 2022 - 05:43 PM, said:

I would like to inquire about this matter further please go on.

Oh that was the modded setup I showed in a video a few pages back. Though the footage doesn't show any of the Pain Element replacement enemies.

The Watchtower, on 05 March 2022 - 03:35 AM, said:

Most enemies in Doom have too much HP if you think about it. I really miss more low to mid tier enemies, which need 2-3 shotgun shells, no less, no more. There are the cannon fodders (70 HP or less), the zombies and the imps, and other than lost souls and pinkies, the rest of the squad have at least 300 HP (revenant). And lost soul shouldn't be a mid-tier, it should be a low-tier due to the nature of the enemy.

Pinky is the only enemy which is actually and truly a mid-tier one, like the octabrain, the drone, or even the pigcop and the enforcer in Duke.

Amusing fact: None of the enemies in Heretic except the bosses have more than 280 HP. The Heretic Player's firepower is just so low tier it still takes a lot of hits to bring the stronger monsters down...

[NightFright]

I think the reason why Heretic weapon power is so low is because of the Tome of Power. With that active, guns feel a lot more satisfying. Unfortunately, it's not a permanent effect. I usually use a small difficulty mod for GZDoom which lowers enemy HP in Heretic to 0.8x or so. Like that, regular gunplay feels a lot more responsive without becoming too overpowered by default.

[jkas789]

Just finished Deathless on my Switch. That was fun! Correct me if I wrong, but it felt as if they reworked one or two vanilla doom maps right?

[ReaperAA]

jkas789, on 09 March 2022 - 05:58 PM, said:

Just finished Deathless on my Switch. That was fun! Correct me if I wrong, but it felt as if they reworked one or two vanilla doom maps right?

It has been quite a while since I last played it, but afaik all the secret maps are homages to Doom 2 maps.

[NightFright]

Finally found the vanilla variant of my choice, even though it had to be custom-made: Crispy Doom x64 with truecolor option.
Truecolor seems to be trivial at first, but it gets rid of all the ugly color banding and dirty, washed-out visuals when looking into the distance. That and Pinky Demons remain pink at all times! On top of that, it doesn't affect the general "vanilla-like" aspect of the port at all.

If you want to try it, find binaries based on latest Github snapshot (important since latest official release v5.11.1 still has an issue with Doom 1's ep.3 scroller in truecolor) in the attachment.

Notes:
- Truecolor mode is only available in Doom, not any other game (Heretic, Hexen, Strife).
- You can switch back to 8-bit rendering by editing crispy-doom.cfg (change variable crispy_truecolor to 0; default: 1).

[jkas789]

Sometimes, I go to Doomworld to laugh at the hypocrisy for a bit.

How controversial can wads get?

Mordeth here jumping the gun

[Ninety-Six]

i dont even have words

[Balls of Steel Forever]

the post
may not be word for word for the @mordeth part as I don't have an archive of it

Quote

Do not deadname trans people (for some reason calling notjabba "he" on this forum, including by staff, outside of a mod is ok)

Do not post a mod here with females being tortured. Males being tortured is ok. Naked torture of females exclusively is not ok.

Nazi zombies are ok.

American zombies are ok here.

German zombies are ok here.

Russian zombies are ok here.

Holocaust death camp zombies (puts a personal bad taste in my mouth, even though I think it is fine, as they are a minority group of zombies) are not at all ok.

Historically accurate film depicting a sensitive subject from a specific time period in a mod is also not ok here.

It is ok for minority groups to be targeted if it's historically accurate.

I.e.

vietnamese

Cubans

North Koreans

(Do not mention war crimes by minority groups, or the fact that NATO is a great hero despite funding 80% of human trafficking in kosovo.

https://en.m.wikiped...20prostitution.)

And if they are seen as enemies of western nations.

Such as People of middle eastern descent that are NOT Israeli . The people of Yemen that the u.s. and Saudi arabia lead a genocide against are a good target.

A confusing one

Although a video game where saudi Arabian slaves overthrow their leadership should be morally ok, it's not because it's not currently illegal by federal law u.s. slaves overthrowing their leadership.

And remember, male and male like torture and nudity is ok, sexualizing male and male like characters is ok, sexualizing, torturing, and nudity of females and female like characters is more then taboo here.

@mordeth
all you knew was that he was russian, assuming that because he was russian, means he supports the invasion makes you a piece of shit.

Fuck Doomworld.

[Ninety-Six]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 25 March 2022 - 11:33 PM, said:

Fuck Doomworld.

Fuck Doomworld.

[Phredreeke]

How the fuck did I miss this?

[MObreck]

Somehow I didn't know about that forum thus never associated with it. How does someone who has been creating DOOM mods since the game was new not know about the Doomworld forums until just this year I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

[Ninety-Six]

MObreck, on 26 March 2022 - 12:26 AM, said:

Somehow I didn't know about that forum thus never associated with it. How does someone who has been creating DOOM mods since the game was new not know about the Doomworld forums until just this year I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I envy you.

[Doom64hunter]

jkas789, on 25 March 2022 - 07:29 PM, said:

Sometimes, I go to Doomworld to laugh at the hypocrisy for a bit.

How controversial can wads get?

Mordeth here jumping the gun

Screenshot_20220325_202751.png

OP should be more worried about what's allowed in his country lol.

Personally I wouldn't want to get disappeared over a Doom wad of all things.

[NNC]

I openly invite anybody to talk Doomw*rld shit in this thread: https://forums.duke4...wars-pedo-wars/

I made a mistake few years ago and talked about that wretched place in Doom Corner, and mods were right to separate it and put it into the Outhouse.

Doomw*rld is NOT Doom. Doom is an awesome game with incredible legacy, without which our favourite game (Duke Nukem 3D) and various others wouldn't exist in their current form, it also has an abundant number of user made content, various rivaling ports, etc etc. Doomw*rld on the other hand is just an outhouse of a forum with toxic environment, retarded threads (ie. What is your favourte demon to kill during dinner time, What is your favourite skillsaw slaughterwad with at least 400 revenants etc.), and virginal beta fascists in the lead. The user made content is not created because of that place, but in spite of that place.

So I openly invite you to discuss these atrocities in that said thread.

EDIT: Also, the "cacoward" titled ceremony which gives some kind of "award" to the "best" user made content of the year is Doomw*rld's other big sin. It's a decision of a few, arrogant people, who consider their own opinion as norm. And this usually results in massive deterioration in Doom mapping towards this norm as usually the cacowards are not given to the best wads, but the most Doomw*rld compatible wads (ie. those crowded giant slaughtermaps with shiny palette and stuff).

[NightFright]

I agree, especially regarding the Cacowards. It has nothing to do with democratic decisions any more, they take the nominations as suggestions for what MIGHT be considered. By them, the almighty chosen ones. I have given up on voting there since a while. Admittedly, I called out International Doom as best port there recently, but I'll certainly not participate in user map votings any more. It's a farce.

[jkas789]

The Watchtower, on 27 March 2022 - 12:51 AM, said:

Also, the "cacoward" titled ceremony which gives some kind of "award" to the "best" user made content of the year is Doomw*rld's other big sin. It's a decision of a few, arrogant people, who consider their own opinion as norm. And this usually results in massive deterioration in Doom mapping towards this norm as usually the cacowards are not given to the best wads, but the most Doomw*rld compatible wads (ie. those crowded giant slaughtermaps with shiny palette and stuff).

I think that is the absolute worst about Doomworld situation in regards to how a newbie tries to find high quality wads. The cacoawards are really high profile and anybody new to the scene would assume that the winners are truly the best of the best. Not the artsy unfair slaughterfest that they usually are.

[Ninety-Six]

my favorite part about that particular aspect is that they accuse the build community of putting visuals before gameplay, and yet every single write-up is 90% fellating the author for their visuals, and maybe a sentence about how it plays...

[The Battlelord]

Right to touch the truth of the latest comments; just give a look at the description of this mod lol: Refracted Reality AMD-fix

[MrFlibble]

jkas789, on 27 March 2022 - 07:35 AM, said:

I think that is the absolute worst about Doomworld situation in regards to how a newbie tries to find high quality wads.

From my experience, there is a wide variety of mapping styles, and what's good and pleasing to some is absolutely terrible to others. I conclude that there's no good way to find maps that you will really like except trial and error. And since there's so many maps in existence already, asking the community allows to narrow down the range somewhat. There are also blogs by people who play and review maps, it also helps a bit.

I don't play very often so this is less of an issue with me personally, though.

The Watchtower, on 27 March 2022 - 12:51 AM, said:

It's a decision of a few, arrogant people, who consider their own opinion as norm.

I suppose there's many other places where the same kind if thing happens. Part of human nature, really. Also I don't believe that if Cacoward winners were picked entirely against the preferences of the community's majority, this would not cause an outcry of sorts. Since there isn't one, I'm assuming that at least some part of the community agrees with these nominations and genuinely likes the style, gameplay etc. Who am I to tell them otherwise?

To be honest, I've always viewed Doomworld as a La bohème style community of artists. And artists in general often aren't exactly easy people to get along with in the first place. I guess it's natural that tensions may be running high, along with an in-group vs. out-group mentality. Again, part of human nature. Also the community is really large and there are lots of different people. Sometimes, management has to be harsh to maintain order, and things can get controversial at any moment. I'm trying to be philosophical about it. No society is perfect, and none ever manages to please everyone.

Sorry if this all sounds amateurish, but I'm not really giving the issue any deeper thought than this. Personally, it makes me upset that negativity and mutual discontent often springs from matters that are trivial at best and could be avoided altogether with some tact and attempt to understand the other's point of view. Especially in situations where there's very little, if any, actual harm being done.

The Battlelord, on 27 March 2022 - 09:38 AM, said:

Right to touch the truth of the latest comments; just give a look at the description of this mod lol: Refracted Reality AMD-fix

Even if the fix author's criticisms are spot on (I don't know, but I have no particular reason to doubt that), I think it is all incredibly rudely written and this kind of attitude is unbecoming of adult, civilized beings. The ease with which people these days stoop down to throwing insults are one another really worries me. The same fixes could be made and described with a lot less swearing and a lot more style, even if the author holds contempt for the errors of the original developers. Even very harsh criticisms and disdain can be conveyed without resorting to plain swearing and insults, while remaining completely polite. I mean, insults can be formally very polite too. It just needs a little refinement of the language, which should be a good exercise for everyone.

And if done politely, any criticism has a better chance of reaching the person that is criticised, and accepted in a constructive manner. At least, this is what I believe.

Cheers.

[MObreck]

The Battlelord, on 27 March 2022 - 09:38 AM, said:

Right to touch the truth of the latest comments; just give a look at the description of this mod lol: Refracted Reality AMD-fix

The "Arena" part hits close to home for me. That's what ruined Eviternity for me. The first episode of stages were a blast. Then a few stages into the second episode every level devolved into just an excuse to trap you in a small area with limited cover while you get bombarded with 200 monsters. After the forth stage in a row of that "gameplay as a chore" I took a hint and noped out.

[Phredreeke]

Don't mistake selfcensorship for unity.

[NightFright]

Btw, another Cacoward trend of the last years: The real pearls are in the runners up, if they even make it there.

And if Romero makes a map, he gets an award pretty much for sure. I mean OK, it's nice that one of the id founders provides new game content after such a long time, but putting his work on the same level as that of the community doesn't feel right. Others make great maps, too. There are more than enough entries each year that would have deserved an award and didn't get any because "must-awards" like these took precious slots away.

Oh, and some are still dumb enough to nominate their own projects.

[Phredreeke]

Sigil didn't get a cacoward and I recall Watchtower being pretty salty over it

[NNC]

MrFlibble, on 27 March 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

I suppose there's many other places where the same kind if thing happens. Part of human nature, really. Also I don't believe that if Cacoward winners were picked entirely against the preferences of the community's majority, this would not cause an outcry of sorts. Since there isn't one, I'm assuming that at least some part of the community agrees with these nominations and genuinely likes the style, gameplay etc. Who am I to tell them otherwise?

To be honest, I've always viewed Doomworld as a La bohème style community of artists. And artists in general often aren't exactly easy people to get along with in the first place. I guess it's natural that tensions may be running high, along with an in-group vs. out-group mentality. Again, part of human nature. Also the community is really large and there are lots of different people. Sometimes, management has to be harsh to maintain order, and things can get controversial at any moment. I'm trying to be philosophical about it. No society is perfect, and none ever manages to please everyone.

Sorry if this all sounds amateurish, but I'm not really giving the issue any deeper thought than this. Personally, it makes me upset that negativity and mutual discontent often springs from matters that are trivial at best and could be avoided altogether with some tact and attempt to understand the other's point of view. Especially in situations where there's very little, if any, actual harm being done.

Cheers.

No, it doesn't sound amateurish at all, but I disagree with the artist label. Freeware usermade content for games (and I hope I won't hurt anyone's feelings here) are not art. It can be art, on the very rare occasion, but it's not by default. And if someone can make maps with an artistic touch, he can find ways to get paid for it. In fact, user mapping is closer to fan fiction, which is usually not about high quality either. And honestly, it's more about time sink, and hobby, instead of professional vision and job. However you're right, the negative attitude of the artists are often apparent in those who consider themselves artists.

I've been talking quadzillions of times about how to make mapping closer to art. I know I don't have the talent, so I don't bother. A few have the talent. Like Romero. Professionalism, and artistic approach were shining through his modern limit-removing maps (probably not in his latest map for Doom 2, but only because it was just a small snippet of a much bigger thing). No wonder he got paid for his work. People like the guys behind NRFTL also had great artistic approach. James Paddock is a great musician. And that's it (from the 2000s, at least), maybe there are some true talents I missed.

The Duke community is more mature than the Doomw*rld community. Here, most people are perfectly aware of that their work is not art, but fan fiction, and great hobby that can make friendships. It can be a good fan fiction, even very very good fan fiction (I'm eagerly awaiting ck3D's new episode for example, and like many maps, ie. the current Map of the Month episodes), but that's it. People here are not arrogant pricks, who think about their stuff more than what they are, and that makes this community 1000 times better than that sad place.

[MObreck]

The Battlelord, on 27 March 2022 - 09:38 AM, said:

Right to touch the truth of the latest comments; just give a look at the description of this mod lol: Refracted Reality AMD-fix

I have taken a few lessons about compatibility from this little rant. For example to use Decorate over ZScript if I'm creating something small scale even though I vastly prefer using ZScript. And to stick with older versions of GZDoom when possible (I rolled back my current copy to 4.5.0)

It is rather annoying that if you choose 'A_CustomMissile' over 'A_SpawnProjectile' in ZScript the console will get flooded with "Dis command iz deprecated" warnings on bootup
But I suppose using ZScript doesn't provide outside compatibility anyways so not as much need for deprecated commands.

[Ninety-Six]

As far as the gatekeeping of the Cacowards goes, if they absolutely have to have their judges, I still don't see why they can't just do both.

A good example comes from over in the Sonic community. Every year they hold the Sonic Hacking Contest, which is exactly what it sounds like. A contest surrounding ROM hacking. It makes sense to have judges there. But in addition to actual judges to pick their top 3 in each category, they also have an identical set of categories that are voted on by the whole community and are displayed on the same page.


I don't understand why the cacowards can't do the same thing if the heads of it absolutely have to be the final authority on what wins.

[The Battlelord]

MObreck, on 27 March 2022 - 03:21 PM, said:

I have taken a few lessons about compatibility from this little rant. For example to use Decorate over ZScript if I'm creating something small scale even though I vastly prefer using ZScript. And to stick with older versions of GZDoom when possible (I rolled back my current copy to 4.5.0)

It is rather annoying that if you choose 'A_CustomMissile' over 'A_SpawnProjectile' in ZScript the console will get flooded with "Dis command iz deprecated" warnings on bootup
But I suppose using ZScript doesn't provide outside compatibility anyways so not as much need for deprecated commands.

Things in general (not just GzDoom) should offer more retro-compatibility, i understand the efforts to improve stuff and all, functionality in this case, but on the other hand all these changes make even quite recents releases "old" already.

As example, i was trying Doom Exp (it reminnds me Alien Armageddon in some ways), then i realized that the user have to stick with version 4.6.0 or it won't work, this isn't fault of the author of that mod obviously.

[ReaperAA]

MrFlibble, on 27 March 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

Sorry if this all sounds amateurish, but I'm not really giving the issue any deeper thought than this. Personally, it makes me upset that negativity and mutual discontent often springs from matters that are trivial at best and could be avoided altogether with some tact and attempt to understand the other's point of view. Especially in situations where there's very little, if any, actual harm being done.

Its nice to see at least one person here who is trying to be understandable and isn't just parroting "Doom community sux".

MrFlibble, on 27 March 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

From my experience, there is a wide variety of mapping styles, and what's good and pleasing to some is absolutely terrible to others. I conclude that there's no good way to find maps that you will really like except trial and error. And since there's so many maps in existence already, asking the community allows to narrow down the range somewhat. There are also blogs by people who play and review maps, it also helps a bit.

I don't play very often so this is less of an issue with me personally, though.

I suppose there's many other places where the same kind if thing happens. Part of human nature, really. Also I don't believe that if Cacoward winners were picked entirely against the preferences of the community's majority, this would not cause an outcry of sorts. Since there isn't one, I'm assuming that at least some part of the community agrees with these nominations and genuinely likes the style, gameplay etc. Who am I to tell them otherwise?

Exactly. While I too wish that there was an additional "player's choice" wads list which listed the top ten most nominated/voted wads, the wads that are picked by the cacoward team (like it or not) do resonate with most of the Doom players (both within and even outside those on Doomworld). Only on rare occasions do you see people complaining about a wad that deserved a cacoward but didn't get one (Auger;Zenith is one such example, but that too at least got a sliver/runner-up award despite the past tensions and bad blood between the Doomworld and Doomer Boards staff).

Also to say that the main cacoward winners are all or mostly slaughtermaps is wrong. Among the twelve 2021's winners, only 3 (Haste, Fractured Worlds and Tarnsman's Projectile Hell) are what I would qualify as such. Also to say that only the runner ups are gems are entirely subjective. I personally found 3 of the mainline winners (Heartland, 1000 Lines 3 and Ashes Afterglow) to be real gems in my eyes.

MrFlibble, on 27 March 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

Even if the fix author's criticisms are spot on (I don't know, but I have no particular reason to doubt that), I think it is all incredibly rudely written and this kind of attitude is unbecoming of adult, civilized beings. The ease with which people these days stoop down to throwing insults are one another really worries me. The same fixes could be made and described with a lot less swearing and a lot more style, even if the author holds contempt for the errors of the original developers. Even very harsh criticisms and disdain can be conveyed without resorting to plain swearing and insults, while remaining completely polite. I mean, insults can be formally very polite too. It just needs a little refinement of the language, which should be a good exercise for everyone.

And if done politely, any criticism has a better chance of reaching the person that is criticised, and accepted in a constructive manner. At least, this is what I believe.

Agreed here as well. Now I don't doubt the fix author's criticisms regarding Refracted Reality. For those unaware, that project actually had a very troubled development with delays and also one mapper (Bridgeburner) leaving the project and taking his maps with him to form another project named "The Slaughter Spectrum". However, the fix author's attitude is rude beyond reason. And the most ridiculous part is saying that GZDoom devs deliberately changing functions to break compatibility. Compatibility with what? Older versions of GZDoom? Such type of wad won't work on a non-GZDoom port anyway and I don't see Graf or anyone else from GZDoom team gaining anything from doing that. The only reason this is done is if the older function wasn't well designed or had some calculation errors etc.

And if someone cares about compatibility SO MUCH, they can still use the old function ffs. The only issue is that there will be warnings shown at the startup console in GZDoom, which isn't a big deal.

[Aleks]

The Watchtower, on 27 March 2022 - 02:16 PM, said:

No, it doesn't sound amateurish at all, but I disagree with the artist label. Freeware usermade content for games (and I hope I won't hurt anyone's feelings here) are not art. It can be art, on the very rare occasion, but it's not by default. And if someone can make maps with an artistic touch, he can find ways to get paid for it. In fact, user mapping is closer to fan fiction, which is usually not about high quality either. And honestly, it's more about time sink, and hobby, instead of professional vision and job. However you're right, the negative attitude of the artists are often apparent in those who consider themselves artists.

I don’t know much or don’t care about Doomworld forums, but gotta drop my 2 cents here, as I disagree with you on principle here (and hope this doesn’t get derailed so much as to creating another Outhouse topic ). I think basically any user created content can be categorized as art, as this is in principle was art really is – creating something from scratch, using a specialized technique and for the sole purpose of looking good/conveying certain feelings. By this definition, fan fiction would also be art, just for me personally of “lower order”.

Again, I’ll be talking about the perspective of Duke maps (as I don’t know shit about Doom mapping), but I’d say most of the actual “fine art” is really within the freeware user made content, and not in the products – and this is mostly because in their own, personal, “hobby” projects people are pursuing their own vision and creativity rather than what would be liked by the players/what would sell/deadlines. And as far as hobbies go, they can be stuff like gaming, collecting stamps or even assembling models from precise instructions, which is not necessary paint, but can also be painting, sculpting or level design, which I’d consider art. To be honest, I find it more pure to do it for free and pleasure rather than taking it up commercially which would probably kill a lot of joy of doing that.

Quote

The Duke community is more mature than the Doomw*rld community. Here, most people are perfectly aware of that their work is not art, but fan fiction, and great hobby that can make friendships. It can be a good fan fiction, even very very good fan fiction (I'm eagerly awaiting ck3D's new episode for example, and like many maps, ie. the current Map of the Month episodes), but that's it. People here are not arrogant pricks, who think about their stuff more than what they are, and that makes this community 1000 times better than that sad place.

Again, dunno about that. I’d consider most mappers in Duke community that are active right now to be artists and their work as art. For me personally, it’s a lot about expressing myself and trying to convey certain feelings/sensations on the player, with level design and general game design it’s kinda like a more interactive movie, but then it’s also more dependent on the audience and their own interaction and reaction with the work. And it’s one thing to get something done that looks really good and impressive (hell there’s some screenshots from some of people’s recent projects here that I would print and hang on a wall), but also about certain way how people interpret the work in the end and how memorable it is – for me personally it’s most satisfying when someone really digs deeper and sees things how they were really meant to be seen by me as the author.

Didn’t want to sound too pompous here and hope I didn’t, but I don’t see what’s wrong with interpreting one’s work as an art or what’s with the sudden connotation here between being an artist and being a pretentious dick. To be honest, most people I know who are actually making a living out of their art tend to have their both feet firmly on the ground.

[MObreck]

The Battlelord, on 27 March 2022 - 11:48 PM, said:

Things in general (not just GzDoom) should offer more retro-compatibility, i understand the efforts to improve stuff and all, functionality in this case, but on the other hand all these changes make even quite recents releases "old" already.

As example, i was trying Doom Exp (it reminnds me Alien Armageddon in some ways), then i realized that the user have to stick with version 4.6.0 or it won't work, this isn't fault of the author of that mod obviously.

In the case of 'A_CustomMissile' vs 'A_SpawnProjectile' the explanation given was that there was a bug fix to the aim calculation. Personally I don't understand why such a minor tweak needed a new command. A map/mod that depends on the buggy aim calculations is such an unlikely scenario there is really no reason there need to be a legacy command. Could have just as easily been handled by adding an extra "use old aim calculation" flag. Which in more oddness they actually did add that flag to 'A_SpawnProjectile'

In other words there is no logical reason they couldn't have just applied the updates to 'A_CustomMissile'. I love working with GZDoom but the devs do tend to overthink things at times.