[ReaperAA]

Behold, the madness that is "Deformed Doom"

[Outtagum]

Preview of the first expansion for Doom Eternal.

Quote

Following the events of the main story, your victory over Hell’s armies pulled humanity back from the edge of extinction - but it came at a cost. An imbalance of power in the heavens requires the true ruler of the universe to rise and set things right.

What does this mean for you? It means prepare to wage war across never-before-seen realms of the DOOM Universe, square off against new demons and wield new abilities in your never-ending battle against the forces of evil!

[MusicallyInspired]

LOVE that "Cultist Oil Rig" level. Can't wait to play.

Also, I hope we get these soon. Cultist Slayer and Maykr Slayer. Both look incredible. Love the Maykr one especially, though.

[Ninety-Six]

Since this machine is a bit more powerful than my old one, I decided to finally give Golden Souls 2 a spin. I did it right after giving GS1 another playthrough (and this time finishing the postgame levels). And unfortunately I have to say I think I'm gonna drop it. Besides it running like crap even with LZDoom, the secret big coins are getting more and more obtuse. They start by following good game design rules (consistent pattern of one coin before each checkpoint for easier division), and rely more on you having a keen eye and a desire to explore around. But when you get to world 2, things start getting...dumber. Now big coins are hidden in more obtuse locations, and when I say obtuse I don't mean "well they're just harder to find now." I mean obtuse as in "I can't even see it when I know it's there." The first level of world 2 has two secrets that depend on the rocky texture blending into each other, for instance. It's incredibly difficult to separate the platforms or the entryway from the surrounding walls, again even when you know it's there.

Unfortunately it doesn't get much better. The most infuriating one was Relic Ruins, which decides out of nowhere to break the one-coin-per-checkpoint rule, after almost 2 entire worlds that follow that consistent rule. Not only that, it hides the coins in underwater mazes that you require a powerup to stay alive in. Which is just fantastic. And by fantastic I mean aggravating as hell. It may make sense to challenge a player to get to the secret in time, but that only works if the player already knows it's there. If they don't then they're running around in circles trying to find some damn switch or secret passage or whatever, and exploring every nook in cranny while having to resurface every 30 seconds and do a jumping puzzle just to have another shot is not fun.

And then by world 3 it was becoming even worse. I think the moment that pushed me over the edge was a coin hidden underneath a fake floor in an underwater section. A floor that looked no different from the floor around it. A floor that you could argue was marked by a stream of bubbles, but since a stream of bubbles had been a thing in many levels previous that was pure decoration and indicative of nothing, I don't know how they expected you to go "oh there's a coin there."


Now sure, technically all this is optional. But first, I expect some kind of secret world at the end of the game where you're gonna need all the coins to get into, and second: I'm a completionist. I like to complete games 100%, to see everything they have to offer and complete every challenge they have for me. But 3 worlds in and the game has already violated its own rules, for seemingly no other reason than to go "gottem." It doesn't seem like it's going to get better anytime soon. And if it's gonna do that, if it's gonna fight me this hard to complete the game while I'm already struggling with framerate problems in certain levels, if it's going to keep making these secrets more and more obtuse until I have to either look up some kind of walkthrough or open a level editor, then I just don't want to play it.

[Morpheus Kitami]

I had to look up Relic Ruins to see what you were complaining about, because I didn't remember that. Those levels man. It wasn't shocking for me for that to happen, but then, I figured the dev would put that crap. Not even in the top ten worst secrets in the game, IMO. Personally, I hated the later water levels. I can see you haven't reached those yet because you're still capable of producing coherent paragraphs. I also remember having issues with the western town level and the poisoned forest one, which I got stuck on two of the coins a good long while.
However, after around world 7 or so, I don't remember any really obnoxious secrets, buuuut I could have blocked that from my memory too. If you want I can give you a few minor hints.

[Ninety-Six]

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 02:38 PM, said:

Personally, I hated the later water levels. I can see you haven't reached those yet because you're still capable of producing coherent paragraphs.

In terms of coins or in general? I can kind of believe both since I expect a lot of squids, which managed to outclass the wizards as the most annoying enemy in the game.

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 02:38 PM, said:

If you want I can give you a few minor hints.

Couldn't hurt, I suppose. I already found that coins are now going to be hidden in other random places, like a golden crab scuttling around being the first of its kind and doesn't exactly stand out from the normal ones thanks to the blue filter.

That being said,

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 02:38 PM, said:

Not even in the top ten worst secrets in the game, IMO.

this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

[Morpheus Kitami]

The wizards were the multi-colored robe guys, right?
With the Gold Tarantulas. You're at the point where you've gotten that quest, right? Anyway, some of those are very annoying to find. Most of those levels were annoying, because you've got ten more secret items to find in addition to the 3 you've always got.

Spoiler

There's one level, mid-game that's a sunken pirate ship. I'm pretty sure I spent days looking for that crap. Worst competently made level ever.

On secret levels:

Spoiler

Yeah, you're dead on the money in regards to a secret level that wants everything.

On my least favorite levels:

Spoiler

1: Spooky Sunken Ship, crappy everything
2: Venom Villa, poison water+weirdass gate puzzle+gold spiders!=fun
3: Moonlight Morass, really obnoxious gold coin
4: Spectral Steamworks, way too big, could have been cut up into like two tedious levels.
5: Any of the areas that make things really obnoxious to see like Silhoutte Sunset.
6: Beautiful Bay, I think you know why.
7: Port Paradise, the inner town part is fine, but secret hunting was a bitch.
8: Shrine of the Abyss, the water block level. I never knew I could hate water blocks so much.
9: Styx Swamp, for just being tedious as all hell.
10: Binary Bastion, the level was decent, but secrets were all painful to find.
I don't remember the specific levels, but any level that had you do platforming across moving lava also has my ire. And the first level I was talking about is Town with No Name, which is fine if you're not doing secrets.

[Ninety-Six]

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

The wizards were the multi-colored robe guys, right?

Yeah, the ones returning from the first one that are invisible except when attacking or stunlocked, and can fly freely, and are just really really annoying in general.

And yet I prefer them to the squids. At least the wizards aren't making you blind on top of being hard to hit.

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

With the Gold Tarantulas. You're at the point where you've gotten that quest, right? Anyway, some of those are very annoying to find. Most of those levels were annoying, because you've got ten more secret items to find in addition to the 3 you've always got.

Yeah, I've got them. And some of them were in annoying places. The one hiding in the repeating hallway from the world 2 ghost house comes to mind. At least they make a noise, though...

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

On secret levels:

Spoiler

Yeah, you're dead on the money in regards to a secret level that wants everything.

Figured...

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

7: Port Paradise, the inner town part is fine, but secret hunting was a bitch.

This is where I am currently. Not even cheating is helping...

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

10: Binary Bastion, the level was decent, but secrets were all painful to find.

A great way to sum all the levels so far...

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

I don't remember the specific levels, but any level that had you do platforming across moving lava also has my ire.

To be honest, while I did find those levels very difficult (particularly the first castle, which was incredibly demanding for a world 1 finale), I didn't mind them too much on account of, despite their high difficulty, it is at least earned difficulty. Though it asks a lot of me, since it showed exactly what I needed to do and is was entirely on me to execute, the deaths felt like they were my fault (well, when the game didn't lag-spike, anyway. Castle 2 had that really bad). That's usually all I ask for.

Unfortunately a lot of the secrets here don't seem to be like that. Some are, but when I have to ask "how the hell was I supposed to know that?" that's when I start to get irritated.

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 04:15 PM, said:

And the first level I was talking about is Town with No Name, which is fine if you're not doing secrets.

Yeah, that's the one I mentioned too, as relying on the cliff texture making it almost impossible to tell where some of them are hidden. Most offensive when one of them required platforming on virtually invisible ridges.

[Morpheus Kitami]

Ninety-Six, on 14 May 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

Yeah, the ones returning from the first one that are invisible except when attacking or stunlocked, and can fly freely, and are just really really annoying in general.

Oh, yeah, I remember the invisible ones now. Solo those guys weren't annoying, since you can stunlock them, but when they weren't, yeah...

Quote

This is where I am currently. Not even cheating is helping...

I suppose you know about the fly command then? I think I pretty much always used that after clearing out the enemies, not as a way to actually get the secrets, just as a way to save myself time in moving figuring things out. Most of the time, any coin that can be seen that way can just be seen from a normal angle. Later on, I forget the command, but the command that shows you the map including hidden walls. Not much help, since most of the secrets revolve around verticality or collecting things.
That might be why later on I remember things less. Most of the post-forest pre-city levels are fun, and I don't remember any real bull moments, but I do believe at that point I was sometimes indulging myself in looking it up online.

Quote

Yeah, that's the one I mentioned too, as relying on the cliff texture making it almost impossible to tell where some of them are hidden. Most offensive when one of them required platforming on virtually invisible ridges.

The second one, right? On one hand, I have to disagree with you, since I managed, just barely, to get that via an aha moment. On the other, it was a matter of chance that I managed to figure it out, and that's only because I exhausted the town itself.

[Ninety-Six]

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

I suppose you know about the fly command then? I think I pretty much always used that after clearing out the enemies, not as a way to actually get the secrets, just as a way to save myself time in moving figuring things out. Most of the time, any coin that can be seen that way can just be seen from a normal angle. Later on, I forget the command, but the command that shows you the map including hidden walls. Not much help, since most of the secrets revolve around verticality or collecting things.

IDDT. I tend to use that over flying, but I didn't consider using it to make moving through a bit less of a pain once it's clear.

Morpheus Kitami, on 14 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

The second one, right? On one hand, I have to disagree with you, since I managed, just barely, to get that via an aha moment. On the other, it was a matter of chance that I managed to figure it out, and that's only because I exhausted the town itself.

I kind of found it by chance myself, when investigating an unrelated visual glitch.

[FistMarine]

Looks like recently they added another addon for the Bethesda Classic Doom ports:

https://www.doomworl...comment=2128978

Gameplay video of Deathless:


Note: It's not my video for those wondering and I don't own the new Bethesda ports anyway, I may consider getting them this summer maybe for Android. I'm fine with my original copies (from id anthology) that I play in DOSBox and various source ports.

To answer to older posts to previous page:

Morpheus Kitami, on 15 April 2020 - 02:23 PM, said:

Glad to hear that they're doing a new physical release for Chex Quest, not so glad that its Limited Run Games. They feel so scummy to me, like they're trying to encourage scalpers or something. It seems like every time I'm actually interested in a game they're selling I have to be there the instant it goes on sale or its already sold out. And the way the website throws a bunch of sold out things at you first thing if you try to sort things by console. Maybe printing a few more thousand copies really would screw over their business model, but that doesn't make it any better.

I understand what you mean. Normally I don't buy random games they sell but in this case I had to make an exception, just like I did with SIGIL and in both cases they have a limited time pre-order without any limit for how many copies they sell. Plus the fact that I never found a great deal for Chex Quest on eBay, most of the listings I have seen have been expensive for the CD alone. I know it's a rare game but still, not really worth the price those sellers have been asking for, especially with game being free anyway. The new boxed release Limited Run Games does is much more worth the price asked (the big box edition, not interested in the expensive edition) due to having a big box and few more goodies included. I just hope they include the original DOS version inside (for purists like me, though I wouldn't mind if it was remastered and runs in its own port, similar to the recent classic Doom ports by Bethesda), I would be pretty disappointed if I paid for a repacked zdoom/gzdoom version or something similar, considering the source ports are freeware and so is Chex Quest 3 (that runs in zdoom anyway), kinda annoying they didn't state exactly what is included, despite some people asking them.

NightFright, on 21 April 2020 - 10:30 AM, said:

Interesting find with Chex Quest. I am not sure however if I need a boxed copy of a game I already played and most likely will never touch again. Also, CQ modding is next to zero and I doubt this release will change anything about that. It's coming "a bit" late as well IMO, but don't let that keep you from ordering if you are obsessed with boxed copies.

I read somewhere that Chex Quest modding is a bit more popular than even Heretic and Hexen. A bit silly that a straight up Doom clone like Chex Quest was better received than Heretic (that was also seen as a Doom clone by many people but at least it was quite a bit more different instead of just a medieval Doom reskin as some people claim). I know CQ was for kids and given away for free in Chex cereal boxes...but still, it was quite a bit of unexpected success for a game that was low budget if I'm not mistaken. Either way, CQ itself is good and I played it first time in late 2000s and found it alright, so nostalgia factor isn't really there. I started appreciating it a bit more in past couple of years when I replayed entire series.

Also I'm not really as obsessed with boxed copies as you think unless you meant physical copies which in that case yes, I collect physical copies of most of my favorite 90s/early 2000s games as I feel it's much more rewarding of owning a game physically than digitally. For example I am fine if a game I buy is missing big box (especially if it's rare and expensive), as long as it contains the minimum requirement (jewel/DVD case with CD and manual, at least in overall good condition). The best case is obviously finding a sealed copy, at a good price if you are lucky. I guess I will make a separate topic for that type of discussion as I don't want to go off-topic.

Anyway yes, I did buy the Chex Quest big box in past two weeks. If anyone else is interested in the offer, the pre-order lasts for two more days.

[Ninety-Six]

I'm starting to wonder if they'll ever add in some Doom 2 Megawads. NRFTL and the Final Doom campaigns don't count since they were commercial releases.

[Phredreeke]

There's no support for Boom or MBF, only vanilla and limit removing without DeHacked. This rules out a lot of recent WADs.

[Ninety-Six]

Phredreeke, on 18 May 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

There's no support for Boom or MBF, only vanilla and limit removing without DeHacked. This rules out a lot of recent WADs.

Doesn't rule out all Doom 2 wads, though.

Spoiler

I'm not exactly begging them to add "recent" wads, anyway...

[Phredreeke]

The problem with older WADs is tracking down everyone who worked on them to sign off on it

[Ninety-Six]

True, I suppose.

[NightFright]

What the heck is THIS? Chex Quest HD on Steam for free?

[Ninety-Six]

Huh. Neat.


I don't suppose it offers a new difficulty mode...?

[Ninety-Six]

So I'm trying to create a bugfix version of MAP27 of TNT (Mount Pain), to go along with the other bugfixed maps I've done for UD and D2 (more for personal use since I have no idea how the hell this would work as a release in a legal sense). Doom wiki link that describes the bug in question.

Is anyone with more experience than me in Doom mapping able to explain how the lost soul mountain teleporters work? I look it over in the editor and it seems like none of the souls should be able to escape, much less all but a handful.

[Marphy Black]

Every linedef on Mount Pain's Lost Soul mountain is meant to teleport the Lost Souls back onto the mountain. However, there are numerous teleportation linedefs but only one teleport destination per level on the mountain (five destinations total), so what happens is that the massive gaggle of Lost Souls who all wake up at the same time and try to leave the mountain at once end up immediately overwhelming the few teleport destinations. The first Lost Soul touching the linedef teleports back, but the subsequent ones cannot teleport since the destination is still being blocked by that first Lost Soul. Hence, they just fly past the teleport line without impediment. Repeat this process as the entire Lost Soul wave slowly makes it across every teleportation linedef, and eventually only a few at the end manage to get stuck on the mountain as the teleports intend.

This behavior arguably isn't a bug, however. No matter the case, a majority of the Lost Souls are obviously able to make it off the mountain and attack the player. The few that remain on the mountain appear intended to be decorative as they continually create roving fires and green flashes from a distance, and indeed the map ends with the player looking right at this effect from afar. The only "bug" here is that they cannot be killed in the original Doom engine, but this isn't a problem there as far as the end-of-level stats go since Lost Souls don't count towards the final kill percentage. However, as the Doom Wiki article points out, some source ports like GZDoom deliberately stray from the original game behavior and force Lost Souls into the final kill count. Thus, it's impossible to get 100% kills in Mount Pain while playing in GZDoom unless also enabling other heretical source port features like mouse aim.

[Ninety-Six]

I was aware that it was a source port only issue, but I refuse to play in a source port that retains the original hitscan behavior. (I use zdoom still, not GZDoom, but I do keep freelook off, along with some other vanilla compatibility settings kept on). I'm not aware of a port that simultaneously fixes that but retains the lost soul kill count behavior.

Thanks anyway for the detailed reply. I guess I'll just have to leave it be.

[NightFright]

I have read that id gave in and removed Denuvo from Doom Eternal or are intending to do so. Does it mean it's going to be completely removed from the game?

If I understood correctly, this was about a second version of Denuvo which was specifically meant for multiplayer, added with Update 1. What needs to be clarified is whether the Denuvo removal only affects this new version or any (including singleplayer).

[MusicallyInspired]

Denuvo has been entirely removed as of Wednesday. I can now play it without crashing. However, id claims that Denuvo was not at all what was causing the performance problems but an incorrect allocation of VRAM (or something) that Update 1 broke. They removed Denuvo because of the backlash about it running on the kernel level and privacy issues. They also said one of the reasons they had used it in the first place was because fans criticized them for not having good enough anti-cheat in 2016. Marty did another whole Reddit post about it last week.

Anyway, there is absolutely no Denuvo or anti-cheat in the game now.

[Ninety-Six]

I was tinkering with the DOS version for a bit just to experiment and see what I could get away with, but uh

why am I getting a visplane overflow crash on Mount Pain? Inside???


EDIT: It consistently happens on the easternmost cage room, with the floor down and cages up, on either the sourthern or northern torchlight triangle and facing the other way.


I know of the visplane crash that can occur while cheating and noclipping to the mountain to see the whole level, but I've not seen any mention of these "torchlights of death" anywhere.

[fgsfds]

MusicallyInspired, on 29 May 2020 - 06:53 AM, said:

Anyway, there is absolutely no Denuvo or anti-cheat in the game now.

Huh? Only Denuvo anti cheat was removed. Denuvo DRM is still there.

[Player Lin]

Ninety-Six, on 01 June 2020 - 08:41 PM, said:

I was tinkering with the DOS version for a bit just to experiment and see what I could get away with, but uh

why am I getting a visplane overflow crash on Mount Pain? Inside???


EDIT: It consistently happens on the easternmost cage room, with the floor down and cages up, on either the sourthern or northern torchlight triangle and facing the other way.


I know of the visplane crash that can occur while cheating and noclipping to the mountain to see the whole level, but I've not seen any mention of these "torchlights of death" anywhere.

If that location have lot of floors and ceilings can visible, even not visible on your view or something take you up like sent fly to higher place by archvile and then you see more scenes...and it adds the possibility to crash.(Yeah, that's why this bug can be easy triggered if mapper unaware about it, actual test still needed sometimes if the map was designed for vanilla or limit removing)
The 128 visplane limit just not much if the map is more complex(even the classic DooM port in DooM3: BFG edition just raise the visplane limit to 384 so it won't really avoid the problem, just make it not easy to trigger), and such design would make it easily to trigger if somewhere has something that potential view more floors and ceilings.

The whole east side of level(outdoor area, especially upper and lower side) just full of hot spots to make your visplane goes sky high. Also, maybe sometimes the engine just went apeshit and cause the visplane go over 128 and crash your game.

if you're interest, This thing can let you know current visplane value on your current view point.

[Ninety-Six]

Player Lin, on 02 June 2020 - 09:10 AM, said:

if you're interest, This thing can let you know current visplane value on your current view point.

I don't understand entirely what I'm looking at. I mean I see the visplane warning but

[Player Lin]

Ninety-Six, on 02 June 2020 - 05:52 PM, said:

how.png

I don't understand entirely what I'm looking at. I mean I see the visplane warning but

Yes, you're hitting(or already hit, since the max value is already over 128) the visplane limit, it doesn't mean the engine will crash when you broke the limit(since still have other factors when rendering the scene) but chance will be higher and higher if you still got the warning, and the value getting higher and higher.

[ck3D]

Just ran into this for the first time and what the fuck. I'm a big fan of the old Punch-Out games and this is brillant, in addition to seeming fun to play in a way that's successfully reminiscent of said games and their mechanics.

[Morpheus Kitami]

Nice, but I can't say I didn't see something like that coming. Someone sort of already made that, Action Doom 2 was inspired by beat 'em ups