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Doom corner  "for all Doom related discussion"

User is offline   Loke 

  • 594

#2461


0

User is online   Mr. Tibbs 

  • 1,362

#2462

This looks pretty spiffy!

0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 1,972

#2463

Posted Image
6

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2464

View PostMr. Tibbs, on 04 November 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

This looks pretty spiffy!


It's really fun, apart from the platforming segments it's a very good first person version of Castlevania. One thing is missing from the original game though: if you pick up a secondary weapon you don't drop the one you had equipped so if you accidentally pick up something you don't want you're stuck with it. That's quite bad because man, the holy water sucks balls here.
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 1,972

#2465

LOL, I had an idea to make some Doom sprites from models, sort of like I did for the Duke Spookem mod, but for Doom critters.

Lets say that Doomworld lived up to their reputation.... https://www.doomworl...es-kickstarter/
0

User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 6,084

  #2466

View PostTea Monster, on 05 December 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

LOL, I had an idea to make some Doom sprites from models, sort of like I did for the Duke Spookem mod, but for Doom critters.

Lets say that Doomworld lived up to their reputation.... https://www.doomworl...es-kickstarter/

Wow, some serious idiocy in that thread.
3

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 1,972

#2467

I expected some stupidity, but Jeez Louise....

I don't even know if I should reply to some of them. I mean, ZBrush, rent and electricity are free? Where do these guys live ... Oh, OK, in their parent's basement :dukecry:

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 05 December 2017 - 10:12 AM

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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

  • 276

#2468

You know, sometimes an opinion is just something a loser pulls out to see if there is someone else that agree with him just to not feel himself alone. An opinion is useful only were the facts and objectivity support it (in hindsight usually).

Now, it is pretty clear to me that this requirement is not there in that thread. Don't listen to them, they don't worth your time. They did not show anything when you have already shown a concreteness and a skill that they do not have. If they do not care leave them in their basement. You can look for someone on the other DOOM communities with people that would pay for see quality stuff.
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 1,972

#2469

I think it's dead. My partner who does the animation has agreed. You can follow that link and blame them for this.
0

User is offline   leilei 

  • 466

#2470

Kickstarter or not, it wouldn't work out anyway. The greater detail on a sprite would only serve to really point out how stiff the actor code is and work against any semblance for "hd realism" and accentuate the age of the game even more than it already is. The payoff would be a short-term novelty that would only be in Youtubers' monetary gains from opportunistic exploitation of those that don't know any better (that is, assuming Youtube would still be around and still be gratuitously generous by the time it's done)

You're not the first to have the "doom sprites hd" idea either.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by leilei: 05 December 2017 - 04:24 PM

4

User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2,640

#2471

Did TM say he was the first with this idea? Oh well, I guess I missed that post.
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 1,972

#2472

View Postleilei, on 05 December 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

You're not the first to have the "doom sprites hd" idea either.


We have a way where it would have worked though. I made a few monsters and a boss for the Duke Spookem mod which were fairly well received. They were done quickly and (so I was told) to good quality.

Anyway, onto other things.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2473

View PostHendricks266, on 05 December 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Wow, some serious idiocy in that thread.

That's true but honestly Tea Monster made a few mistakes he shouldn't have in my opinion:

- He asked for money: it's super understandable why he did that but modders react very harshly to these attempts ever since Steam's / Bethesda's paid mods debacle. Asking money specifically for making high res sprites for Doom certainly wouldn't work as we've seen that even Sgt Mark IV's Patreon was not left alone by Bethesda since he asked money for "making Doom mods" instead of simply just making mods. This may look like something not so significant but let's not forget that id and Bethesda loves what Mark is actually doing and last year they even promoted Brutal Doom 64 through the official Doom twitter account and we're talking about a mod that certainly infringes on Doom 64's copyright. IP becomes serious business once money's involved.

- Still, with a Patreon solution and proper wording it could be possible to ask money for the project but then it would have to be something very special and of high quality. The concept Tea Monster posted is simply not enough to prove that would be the case and the description of the process of making the sprites is not good enough either because you have to have answers for a certain amount of problems. I think one fully working character the community's able to test would be a good proof of concept granted it has more animation frames than what you see in the original game (with more detail the sense of fluidity gets utterly destroyed so more frames are needed for the animation). Of course it's certainly easy to understand why TM wouldn't dedicate the amount of time needed to accomplish that but I say that if you don't lose interest after this and you see the possibility to get to that level just try again when you get there, I think you'll see a very different reception.

- There are a few things you don't talk about in the inner echo chamber of the Doom community like the Harris levels... and Sgt Mark IV. :D Most of the people there are purists when it comes to the core mechanics of Doom so they hate Brutal Doom and its creator ever since the mod became popular. It's not exactly one sided, at the beginning Mark made a few "mistakes" he shouldn't have: he used assets from other mods and forgot to credit their creators, he made a few inappropriate jokes on the forums and the moderators used them as an excuse to ban him from basically every biggest Doom modding site. In the last 2 years things have started to change since now BD uses assets that were made by Mark (and if not the author is credited) and the substantial amount of work he did is something you just have to respect but still he's pretty much a hated member of the modding scene.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 06 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

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User is offline   Marphy Black 

  • 956

#2474

View PostZaxx, on 06 December 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

at the beginning Mark made a few "mistakes" he shouldn't have

Mark also touted that he used photos of "real pictures of actual dead people" in Brutal Doom. This wasn't just a minor side endeavor either. This was his full focus and aim for the project, one he was very proud to make a central feature of the mod. He's since deleted the video he was using to advertise it, but this was his own description:

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Today I decided to take the gore of Brutal Doom to a whole new level!
Through these two years of development, some gib sprites from Nashgore still remained, so, I decided to make whole new sprites to replace them. Where to find the material? Making fake wax pieces of gore myself and taking pics of it? No, but searching the internet for REAL gore, and trying to turn pieces of these pictures of REAL DEAD PEOPLE into sprites.

In this demostrative video you can see 3 pieces of REAL GORE: These pinky brain pieces at 00:07 were taken from a picture of a guy wich got his head ran over by a bus, and his brain splattered all over the street. The eye globe at 00:10 is taken from a guy that got his face shoot by a shotgun at point blank. These generic meat pieces flying at 01:10 are from a pic of a guy butchered by the mexican cartels.

I'm not going to remake ALL sprites using real gore because it takes a lot of time, and it takes hours searching for pictures with the gore in an useable condidtion and angle to be used, but if anybody knows where I can find a clear picture of exposed human entrails, please send the link via PM

Bragging about using "REAL DEAD PEOPLE" and even openly soliciting for pictures of "exposed human entrails" to make his Doom mod understandably weirded out the numerous communities involved, not necessarily just Doom's. This was his early days, mind you, before he did stuff like adding the "turn an average white guy into a nigger faster than Rap" thing into Brutal Doom and offered advice to users on how to kill themselves.

Formerly RinyRed
aka Revenant100

This post has been edited by Marphy Black: 07 December 2017 - 01:18 AM

2

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2475

View PostMarphy Black, on 07 December 2017 - 12:58 AM, said:

snip

Look, I know all about that, you don't have to remind me but I think it's very clear that the community ridiculously overreacted that stuff.

Real dead bodies and racism? Sure, that was tasteless but may I remind you that the first publicly playable version of Doom featured a swastika as an homage to Wolfenstein and that there is an actual "real" dead body in the game to this day?
http://imx-doomer.tu...ivia-about-doom

On a side note: I don't want to point fingers and name any names but let's just say that there are a few actual neo nazis in the Doom modding scene.

The "go and kill yourself" comment was really bad too but I can't view more into it than a tasteless, bad joke honestly... and hey, there was a Doom modder who told me that I'm a dirty Jew (sadly I'm not Jewish) so he'd bring me to a backyard and shoot me in the head (all I said was that I think Blood runs like shit on DOSBox so a source port would be nice... that was enough for my death apparently)... not banned from the ZDoom boards.

Edit: Haha, still have some of the quotes:

Quote

If you play any of these in 1080p you should be dragged to the backyard and have a bullet put through the back of your head. I think these games look disgusting at high resolutions. I don't play them beyond 640, they look repulsive beyond that, so wouldnt know. Didnt see any graphical glitches.

Quote

Im gonna give him my shekels, oy veyy mossad...

There's a prominent Doom modder for ya.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 07 December 2017 - 02:42 AM

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User is offline   Marphy Black 

  • 956

#2476

View PostZaxx, on 07 December 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

the first publicly playable version of Doom featured a swastika as an homage to Wolfenstein

Commander Keen also had a swastika in reference to Wolfenstein. I'm not sure what the point you're making here is, though, since Doom 2 actually features two outright recreations of Wolfenstein levels right down to the Nazis out for blood, swastika-laden corridors, and depictions of Hitler himself. Yes, id made several references to their previous (although in Keen 5's case, future) product which was a groundbreaking landmark in gaming.

Quote

and that there is an actual "real" dead body in the game to this day?
http://imx-doomer.tu...ivia-about-doom

For the record, this is a claim that has never been corroborated. You'll note that none of the bodies in the historical photographs actually match the in-game Doom sprites, which largely defeats the point of the comparison. The source photos supposedly used as the references here have never been identified, which would seem to be rather simple to find considering this is a famous historical event of only which only so many photos exist. And don't think the Doom community hasn't found the exact sources before for other materials. There's also the fact that additional evidence exists indicating the hanging corpse in question was fully hand drawn, which throws that original theory right out the window.

But regardless, the point is again moot since Doom does not proudly proclaim "Features REAL DEAD PEOPLE" on the box, which even if the above claim was true would be a stretch as it only applies to a few incidental hanging corpse decorations. Doom's gore is a product of its artists, a pure fantasy, and while the blood and carnage was an element that set the game apart at the time, it in and of itself the was not the sole selling point of the title nor the reason why the game is still lasts to this day. Mark, on the other hand, is more than happy to proclaim to us that the gibs we see in his mod are from "a guy butchered by the mexican cartels." There's a clear difference in tone and intention from the authors here.

Formerly RinyRed
aka Revenant100
5

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2477

View PostMarphy Black, on 07 December 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

I'm not sure what the point you're making here is

Oh, I'm sorry, I kinda missed my own point. I'm not saying the stuff Mark did is okay because "it was already in the game" or anything like that, using real gore is sick and he should've known better, we see eye to eye on that. What I'm saying is that when it comes to gore and racism you can pull a LOT of inspiration from classic shooters. You can misunderstand Shadow Warrior and think that racism is okay, you can misunderstand the gore in Doom and think that looking at pictures of dead people on the internet is fine etc.

Quote

For the record, this is a claim that has never been corroborated.

I really don't think you need more than those image comparisons to confirm it. Sure, id was smart, they modified it.

Quote

Mark, on the other hand, is more than happy to proclaim to us that the gibs we see in his mod are from "a guy butchered by the mexican cartels."

Just to clarify: that stuff never got released as part of the mod. He came up with the idea, implemented it and removed it like a motherfucker once he saw the reception. Same goes for the nigger comment:

Quote

First of all, I want to say sorry for anyone who got offended by this joke. Unlike some people were advertising it on said forums, It was never my intention to spread white supremacy subliminal messages with it. It was just a joke, a bad joke I must admit. Worse than the Real Gore stuff. And yes, I will remove it on the upcoming version 18 that comes out next week.

So you know, stop overreacting, he was just a stupid kid.

Edit: Anyway my general opinion is that the healthy thing to do is to judge the work and not the person behind it simply because you don't actually know that person. Fun fact: most of our favourite celebrities are actually assholes. :D

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 07 December 2017 - 05:05 AM

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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 179

#2478

View PostZaxx, on 07 December 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

I really don't think you need more than those image comparisons to confirm it. Sure, id was smart, they modified it.
I can't see any resemblance between the photo and the sprites. I think is even easier to make the sprites from scratch than using photos like that.

Posted Image
0

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2479

View PostPerro Seco, on 07 December 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

I can't see any resemblance between the photo and the sprites. I think is even easier to make the sprites from scratch than using photos like that.

I don't know about that, you may be right, but anyway based on my experience I just I think the ZDoom community and Doomworld is nothing more than a bunch of hypocrite assholes who banned their most valuable community member because they got jealous and frustrated by the fact that a mod like BD (a filthy gore mod that dares to change the game's mechanics) could become so successful. And that's just super sad.

Also stuff like this:
https://www.reddit.c...ke_brutal_doom/
https://forum.devian...laints/2098087/

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 07 December 2017 - 04:13 PM

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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 179

#2480

Well, I was only talking about the hanged dude. :D

I've just come to the conclusion that ID could have made a model (like they did with the enemies), and taking photos from it they made all those sprites. That could be the reason why all of them look like the same one.

Posted Image
0

User is offline   Marphy Black 

  • 956

#2481

View PostZaxx, on 07 December 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

Doomworld is nothing more than a bunch of hypocrite assholes who banned their most valuable community member

Mark is not nor was he ever banned on Doomworld: https://www.doomworl...rgeant_mark_iv/

Formerly RinyRed
aka Revenant100
0

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2482

View PostPerro Seco, on 07 December 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

Well, I was only talking about the hanged dude. :D

I've just come to the conclusion that ID could have made a model (like they did with the enemies), and taking photos from it they made all those sprites. That could be the reason why all of them look like the same one.

The way I see it they were looking at real life references and they made the sprite based on what they found and what they found was Mussolini. The part that seems especially telling to me is the legs: that part looks like if it was based on those baggy pants the Italian fascist wore.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing though because everything is based on the real thing, for example even though the gore you see in movies is purposefully hyper realistic (you can't enjoy gore that looks too real, it freaks out normal people) those special effects were made by studying real violence. Guys like "the king of gore", Tom Savini are artists of course but oh boy, they know a lot about human anatomy and what a real machete can do to your head. :D Sgt Mark IV's situation is of course completely different because he did not stop at the "getting inspiration" part but I disagree wit the "what a sick man" conclusion. If you play Brutal Doom after a while you get the feeling that some parts of the mod serve no purpose and are only there to make the thing more edgy (fatalities, the "fuck you" button etc.) so I think he wanted the real gore to get the same effect. Glad he got convinced otherwise, that stuff would only degrade a great mod to some snuff thing you don't want to play.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 284

#2483

View PostMarphy Black, on 07 December 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Mark is not nor was he ever banned on Doomworld: https://www.doomworl...rgeant_mark_iv/

Hm, I remember it was ZDoom and one other thing. Zandronum then?
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User is offline   Player Lin 

  • 245

#2484

View PostZaxx, on 07 December 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

Hm, I remember it was ZDoom and one other thing. Zandronum then?


He got banned both ZDooM(not forever) and Zandronum forum for encourage suicide and all shitstorm related that and his mod, and then his childish reply(s) got he finally banned forever on ZDooM forum.

But I don't care those shit, sure SG Mark IV just did stupid shit, and he got his punishment, end of story. :P

I'm the guy at 3DRealms Forum...

http://forums.3dreal...mber.php?u=3816

Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(
0

User is offline   RunningDuke 

  • 263

#2485

On more positive related news, today is Doom's 24th anniversary and the Cacowards 2017 are up: https://www.doomworld.com/24years/
5

User is online   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!
  • 4,878

#2486

View PostMarphy Black, on 07 December 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

Doom's gore is a product of its artists, a pure fantasy

According to Masters of Doom, a bloody texture for the hell levels was created from a photograph of a wound on Kevin Cloud's knee. I presume the texture is question is SKINSCAB or SKINCUT.

View PostMarphy Black, on 07 December 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

There's also the fact that additional evidence exists indicating the hanging corpse in question was fully hand drawn,

That's the equivalent texture in the PSX version. Wouldn't that suggest otherwise, and they had to censor the dead corpse?

Not that I am saying it's actually a dead corpse, the texture does not match the alleged source for it.
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User is offline   Rellik 

  • 62

#2487

The difference I reckon is that the Doom creators may have used morbid shit, but they didn't use it as a selling point of the game, nor did they publicly talk about it.
0

User is offline   Marphy Black 

  • 956

#2488

View PostFox, on 10 December 2017 - 01:33 AM, said:

According to Masters of Doom, a bloody texture for the hell levels was created from a photograph of a wound on Kevin Cloud's knee. I presume the texture is question is SKINSCAB or SKINCUT.

This is the SKINSCAB texture which features Kevin Cloud's knee scab:
Posted Image

You'd have to really know what to be on the lookout for to be able to identify this as an actual wound on display here, and the average player isn't even likely to consider this texture gory since it's not colored like blood. Either way, using a tiny cut on one's knee as material for incidental and abstract level decor (fantasy!) is much different than intentionally seeking out photos of real dead people (and associated viscera) to cut and paste into the game to represent dead people.

Quote

That's the equivalent texture in the PSX version. Wouldn't that suggest otherwise, and they had to censor the dead corpse?

These different wall textures originate from the Jaguar port of Doom which was developed in-house by id, so there's no doubt id is responsible for this artwork. However, the questions are why these alternate textures were used and where they originally came from, in particular which of these two came first. We don't have any official or conclusive answers to these, but it is worth noting that around this time at id coinciding with Doom 2's on-going development period and further iterations of the original Doom, namely the 1.666 patch and beyond, several sprites in both Doom and Doom 2 were inexplicably reverted to earlier beta versions, and other sprites had errors introduced into them. You can read and see some of these changes here. In short, these errors were clearly unintentional, and regarding the beta reversions, very obvious since the artwork regressed to visibly earlier and unrefined states.

We don't know how these sprite reversion errors occurred either, but I posit that the different Jaguar wall textures are potentially a result of the same issue: Doom 1.666+, Doom 2, and Jaguar Doom (all of which were developed at the same time) had assets inadvertently reverted to earlier beta versions, explaining why these visual disparities came about.

All this brouhaha is a way to say that, while we only first saw it in the later-released Jaguar port, the leftmost corpse texture here is the actually the earlier version of the artwork, while the middle is the latest artwork. Hence, the corpse began as a hand drawn picture, not a photo-sourced image of Mussolini or his mistress's corpse. Again, the alleged source photo used has never been identified, so this is all just a mountain of evidence against a claim that never had any real support to begin with.

Formerly RinyRed
aka Revenant100
2

User is offline   Cage 

  • 567

#2489

All the best in the new year from Team Supplice!

Still kinda WIP, but I wanted to show off the recent going-ons ;)
Posted Image
(video)


If you would like to help us out, please share on your Twitter:
https://twitter.com/...270604180377600

Cheers!

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Cage: 30 December 2017 - 05:11 PM

5

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,993

#2490

Really like the aesthetic!

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
1

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