[Forge]

well that kinda sucks.

nearly all the rookies bailed on the project so now i'm guaranteed to have the worst map of the batch

it's like always being the last kid picked for the team

i hate you guys

[MetHy]

You shouldn't see this as a competition. It's a team effort to make a fun episode, and I can tell you none of the maps are bad

[Forge]

are you taking me serious?

seriously, why so serious?

[Cage]

Welp, I assumed that you'll consider that I've seen the deadline post since I'm online on the forum every day.

I am aware of the deadline, my worst case scenario is that you'll get a short map with mediocre gameplay from me, since almost all of the actual "building" is done.

[MetHy]

Glad to hear that, if gameplay is all that remains you have more than enough time to polish it!

[Daedolon]

Working on final touches on my map, hopefully I can send a final one to MetHy soon.

[Micky C]

With Hendricks occupied by the new beta releases, I doubt he'd be able or willing to work on his map for this

[Mark]

Forge, on 18 April 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

nearly all the rookies bailed on the project so now i'm guaranteed to have the worst map of the batch

Thats not true at all Forge. It was guaranteed before they bailed. Sorry, I couldn't stop myself.

[MetHy]

I just realized that even items (medipack, steroids etc) get taken away at the start of a level with the hurt floor. (up until then I thought it was only weapons)

Well at least that's one worry less for the secret map (i used a certain item as a requirement to progress near the end of the map, so the player shouldn't have it before).

I think (I've thought about it since I made that decision) some players are going to hate losing their gear every single time, but I personally think it's better that way : if mappers had to take into account the previous maps while making theirs, everyone would have had to make gameplay one after the other which would have been more trouble; and if otherwise, the player would be overpowered with tons of ammo after just a few maps.

Besides, losing everything will make each map exciting and actually make players use all the weapons at their disposal a lot more. What I mean is, I know a lot of players like to save up the strong weapons 'in case they need it' and just hardly ever use them. If you're going to lose it all, there is no reason to save them, so you'll use the weapons given to you in situations you wouldn't have with a regular episode weapon system.

The only flaw with this system is that, since even items get taken away, if you start a map with less than 100hp, you might just as well kill yourself to start the map over with 100hp and you're not losing anything.

I've played quite a lot of community Doom megawads where each map was built independantly but weapons weren't taken away. After a few maps I'd always be full on everything (and as a result, would also almost never be in danger health-wise), in those cases some mappers and even players actually recommend to other players to enforce pistol start either with a command line or by killing themselves.

In other words I still think it's the better solution but some players won't like it and might not even understand why this system and see it as a stupid enforced penalty.

Edit : Another consequence is that saving your game isn't required (except of course if you want to stop and keep playing later). With this system a player might be less inclined to save a lot and I think that's good. Let's also not forget that maps aren't very long. Also the penalty for dying isn't as strong as with a 'normal' episode which I find good as well; it pisses off a player less after dying a death he may consider unfair.

[Jblade]

It's fine, don't worry about it - as for the health issue, I literally just spawned in a stack of 30+ health packs when the player uses the exit keycard lock. That way they're going to be at full health at the start of the next map so the next map author won't have to worry about having too much health to account for if the player's low on health in the previous map.

[Daedolon]

Yeah I think I'm gonna do something similar since my map might be a bit tight otherwise.

[MetHy]

Also if the player dies and hasn't saved in a long time (like, his last save is before the start of the level); this system is actually good for him, he loses less progress.
Now the problem is that eduke32 automatically asks if you want to load your previous save when you die (i say eduke32 but probably original duke3D too); so I hope for players who die and whose save is in a previous map that they're not too used to answer "y" or that they will think twice before doing that....

James, on 25 April 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

It's fine, don't worry about it - as for the health issue, I literally just spawned in a stack of 30+ health packs when the player uses the exit keycard lock. That way they're going to be at full health at the start of the next map so the next map author won't have to worry about having too much health to account for if the player's low on health in the previous map.

In the first map I actually put a 30hp pack that you get just before exiting the level on a step (can't use your spawn system because you get to unlock the fence from another place).
That's fine for first maps (I also consider your map one of the first maps considering its difficulty, set of enemies and set of weapons) but I don't think we should do that for all maps. I'll find that out for sure during the final betatesting moments.

[Daedolon]

Just over a week to finish your maps.

I can't come up with anything for my last room so it's going to be wholly lackluster.

[MetHy]

10 days left! I hope Norvak, Cage, Dukebot and Davox can make it! (again, even if the map isn't as long as the other ones). Haven't heard of Norvak in a while though.

[MetHy]

Daedolon suggested that we include "best times" for the maps (you know, on the map end screen).

Since we're using a .grp and that we're changing the con file for episode/map names anyway, I don't see why not and I think it's a pretty good idea.

Daedolon suggested "3DRealms time" could be the time it takes for the mapper to finish the map and "best time" a betatester's time or something.

I'm not sure about the 2nd but I think Mappers time for each map would be interesting. Are you guys up for it?

If I start to include it and that some mappers don't provide times, I'll make it "0.00"

[Jblade]

sounds like a neat idea, I just did a speedrun and did it in 35 seconds. If you wanted a normal playthrough time and it took about 1 minute 30 seconds.

[MetHy]

Speedrun should be the idea I guess!

[Daedolon]

Yeah that's what I thought, I guess the mapper should do a regular run and speedrun, then add those times as par / 3dr time.

[MetHy]

Yeah that sounds good. I hope people are up for it or else we'll end up with lot's of zeros!

[Mister Sinister]

Alright, good idea. My map took me 9:31 on my normal playthrough, didn't tried to speedrun it.

What's with Merljin map? Did he quit?

Also, is beta-testing going to be a private conversation or we are going to discuss it here?

[Daedolon]

I guess it's just everyone for themselves unless we want do do some kind of testing period after the deadline?

MetHy has helped me test my map already, but he'd do it for all of my maps anyway.

[MetHy]

I've already tested everybody's maps and provided feedback that I thought was needed.

For the episode in almost-final format, I'll do testing as well and I was thinking of asking a couple of people (a couple of mappers who participated in the episode) to test the whole thing as well. I'd like to try and keep the surprise of the whole thing to as many mappers involved as possible (hence why no beta episode for everyone).
Ideally it would be nice if we could get a couple of betatesters for the episode that were not involved in its making but I can't think of anyone, outside of people involved, who can provide insightful comments.

Of course, if anyone want to asks a couple of people of their choice to test their map, feel free to do so, it's your map after all. As long as we're not talking about making a public beta of the map it's fine.

The beta will be "private" discussions between the betatesters, me, and each mapper needed, but, I am obviously not changing anything in anyone's map without the mapper's approval (and ideally I wouldn't have to change anything at all and each mapper would do that if an issue or a concern has been brought up by a tester, what I mean is, I'm not changing anything in anyone's map unless 1) testers found a problem or a concern 2) The mapper asks me to fix that myself either because he doesn't have time or because the issue is so small it's not worth sending the map back&forth. Ideally I don't want to touch anyone's map.), so if a betatester finds an issue or express a concern I will tell that to the mappers concerned.
So, if you're not being contacted during the testing period, congratulations, your map is perfect.

As for Merlijn, got no news, I had convinced him to give it a try but I'm assuming he didn't have time.

Btw I am also planning to make a small video trailer, moddb page, etc should have time to take care of that next week. I will also "choose" the demo map that will go on Megaton, and by choose, I mean that'll write the name of each map on a small piece of paper, put all that in a hat, and asks someone not involved in the making of the episode to pick up a piece of paper.

Edit : btw I'd like Mikko, James and Micky C to try and name their maps, as for now all I have for names for those are "[mappersname]tower" or "[mappersname]floor". Thanks

[Micky C]

It's pretty hard to name my map considering it's an abstract high tech thing. What about "abstractech"

[MetHy]

Fine by me

[Paul B]

I'm still out of the country. I have crappy slow internet connection and a terrible laptop. But its better than nothing to keep in touch with the forum activity. I am unable to perform a speed run of my map until I get home which will be May 23rd. I hope this isn't a problem? I should have written my times down while I was beta testing. I believe my fastest time was about 3 minutes and about 10 minutes the long way. Anyway, I was able to test my map using an ATI video card and realized that some visual glitches appear when playing my map and the use of R_PR_Lighting. For some reason some walls show a paralaxed sky texture when the R_PR_Lighting is enabled.

[MetHy]

Paul B, on 03 May 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

I am unable to perform a speed run of my map until I get home which will be May 23rd. I hope this isn't a problem?

Depends how long the final phase takes but it should be fine.

Quote

I was able to test my map using an ATI video card and realized that some visual glitches appear when playing my map and the use of R_PR_Lighting. For some reason some walls show a paralaxed sky texture when the R_PR_Lighting is enabled.

I can check this out if you want, but I don't even know what that lighting thing is. I guess it's one of the different lighting methods of 32bit? (sometimes I feel like I'm the only 8-bit fanatic left; even with all the improvements eduke32 did to make 32bit look as close to 8bit as possible, it still looks off to me and I'd rather play in 8bit whenever I can)
I think there are going to be issues regarding different visual modes anyway. I should have specified one visual method everyone should make his map compatible with to begin with, but like I said earlier in the thread, I had no idea there could be so many differences between 8bit and 32bit, and when I realized that, it was too late.
Daedolon's map for example is made for 32bit (it can be played in 8bit but there is quite a few visual glitches in 8bit, nothing that hinders gameplay though), while my maps were designed with 8bit in mind (they play with no problem in 32 bit though).

One issue I found regarding differences between both modes are some textures not showing the same alignment in both 8bit and 32bit (I mentionned this here http://forums.duke4....post__p__190558 ). This also happened with Stummpy's car, the car he sent me had half of the textures misaligned for me in 8bit, but looked fine in 32bit; and of course if you align it so that it looks fine in 8bit, it will be off in 32bit now... I found a solution though : replace the textures causing issues by textures that don't (that look like they should in both modes).

This is the kind of things that we'll look into during the final betatesting phase.

[Jblade]

Quote

(sometimes I feel like I'm the only 8-bit fanatic left; even with all the improvements eduke32 did to make 32bit look as close to 8bit as possible, it still looks off to me and I'd rather play in 8bit whenever I can)

Yeah no you're not, don't worry. I play in 8bit all the time (although I have no problem switching up if the mod requires it)

Anyways my floor can just be called 'Executive bathouse'

[MetHy]

stumppy84, on 06 March 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I thought it would be kinda funny to edit the Die Hard poster for Duke Hard. I thought it might be included in one of the Steam community level Screen-shots to attract more attention to the project...
I'm obviously not a photo-shop pro but I took a quick shot at it.. Go ahead If anyone wants to improve upon it..

Duke_HARD_POSTER.jpg

Does anyone feel like taking a shot at this poster? "Community Build Project" doesn't sound that good to me (edit : i thought it could have the url of the moddb page but we'll know that url next week, too). The "XX number of levels" is cool, all the boxarts of official duke3D add-ons had that, however we'll only know the final number of levels in a week.

This might sound like I'm asking other people to do my work but trust me, however on top of the trailer, I have a plan to do something for the episode that's gonna be real neat, which gonna keep me busy as soon as I have time to work on it, but I want to keep that secret for now. Don't worry it's nothing that changes gameplay or your maps.

Edit :

James, on 03 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Anyways my floor can just be called 'Executive bathouse'

Sorry but I just remembered Steambull's map is called "Executive" (and he got the name first). Can you think of something else? thx

[stumppy84]

MetHy, on 04 May 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Does anyone feel like taking a shot at this poster? "Community Build Project" doesn't sound that good to me (edit : i thought it could have the url of the moddb page but we'll know that url next week, too). The "XX number of levels" is cool, all the boxarts of official duke3D add-ons had that, however we'll only know the final number of levels in a week.

I could change it since I still have all the source material.. Just PM me the changes, I should be home all this and next month and I check the forums quite often. If you would rather have someone more competent at Photoshop I understand & no "hard" feelings.

[MetHy]

Thanks! I'll let you know next week then when we'll know the exact number of maps and the url. I think that poster looks good enough and nobody else volunteered. Perhaps the Cycloid looks a bit off and you could find a better font for the text. Also we might be getting a "Duke Hard" logo which could go on that poster as well.