[neoacix]

Latest show off:

Short teaser of gas station:


And some new screenshots from Nov 2013:









Originial post:

Hi there!

I'm new here and sorry for my bad english... (I'm german)

I recently started with maping for Duke again, because it's just so much fun and I like it a lot, especialy with the new features. ^^

So I downloaded the latest builds of eduke32 (r4041) , HRP (5.2.413-sfx) and DukePlus (2.35), combined them and started mapping and use them all together with polymere renderer.

And.... yeah, I stumbled over a few bugs, that drive me nuts.

These are my problems:



First of all... I like open world maps and I know Duke was never designed for it, but hey, who cares when you can build a ceiling out of sprites.... I thought.
Now, this is what happens when I look through a window on a sprite ceiling. It's a minor bug...
My question, are there some tweaks for that?

Second...




Wrong sprite placement ingame.
In mapster32, they are nice. Ingame... well, see yourself.
Tried different approaches, nothing fixed it.
That realy drive me nuts. ^^

SOLVED:
Make them wall-aligned. Just press R...

Third...




Some animated sprites in HRP doesn't work and keeps switching from 3D to 2D during the animation.
Aren't they finished yet or is my install of HRP corrupted?

If these questions are asked frequently, then sorry, I didn't found the right thread.
Thanks for your answers anyway.

Greets
dpax

[Micky C]

If you're trying to build multistory buildings and you're using polymer, I'd recommend using TROR instead of sprites. That would fix the first issue at least.

[neoacix]

TROR?
I guess you mean room over room with that. ^^

I will use it, if I want the player NOT beeing able to fly or walk over the building, but in this case, it's my intention to do so.
Guess I have to live with that tiny bug, but thanks for replying so fast.

Btw, here is a pic of my little "Duke Burger" as it looks atm.

[Micky C]

Don't confuse TROR with SOS. Here's what I'm talking about: http://wiki.eduke32....m_Mapping_Guide

But you might as well keep it like you currently have since you've already finished it with sprites. The visual glitch with the glass can't really be fixed, although it may be improved in the future as polymer becomes more complete.

I'd be careful with all the lights you're using though. Polymer is very slow and unoptimized at the moment, and if you put in lots of shadow casting lights like that, and have a very large open area, your map will be unplayably slow.
Otherwise it's looking pretty good.

[neoacix]

WOW! Thanks a lot!

Just downloaded the parkade map ... great job man.

Now I will have to learn and think some more about my map and mapping in general, but that's totaly awesome!

[Mark]

The map looks good so far. As Micky said, the sprite ceiling and transparency problem is a known glitch.

Load another map that uses those models that are floating. If they float in other maps then you know your map is OK.

If you want, you can install Eduke without DukePlus and see if the floating problem remains or not. Same with the 3D / 2D tower problem.

If the problems remain without DukePlus installed then you have narrowed it down to the HRP.

[Daedolon]

If you want to use sprites, make sure to point at them in 3D mode and press 1 (not on numpad) to make them one-sided. That way you won't see the roof floor through the burger's ceiling.

[Micky C]

Daedolon, on 08 September 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

If you want to use sprites, make sure to point at them in 3D mode and press 1 (not on numpad) to make them one-sided. That way you won't see the roof floor through the burger's ceiling.

But you'd just see the sky instead, meaning the glitch will still be there and look ugly. I guess it's worth a try just in case..

[LeoD]

dpax, on 07 September 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Some animated sprites in HRP doesn't work and keeps switching from 3D to 2D during the animation.
Aren't they finished yet or is my install of HRP corrupted?

That's an old HRP DEF shortcoming which is revealed by 'recent' EDuke32 builds. Already fixed in the repository. Instead of waiting for the upcoming full 5.3 release you can follow my signature and use the 5.2.486 update pack for the time being.

[neoacix]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Special thanks to LeoD for the hint with the hrp-update.
It realy fixed problem nr. 3 for me.

One more thing:

Loading "dukeplus.def"
High Resolution Pack (version 5.2.413)..................
High Resolution Pack Update (version 5.2.486)...........................................Error: file "highres/sprites/firstperson/2532_cliphand.png" does not exist

Invalid frame name on line dukeplus.def:117
Removing model 467 due to errors.Error: file "highres/sprites/firstperson/2510_devastator.png" does not exist
.......Error: file "DUKEPLUS_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/models/br_billboards/br_bill4.jpg"
 does not exist
.Error: file "DUKEPLUS_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/models/br_schoolbus/br_schoolbus.jpg"
 does not exist
.
Executing "DukePlus/dp_settings.cfg"
Loading clip map: _clipshape0.map
clip map "_clipshape0.map": warning: sprite 80 pointing neither northward nor southward. X-flipping will be wrong.
clip map "_clipshape0.map": warning: sprite 81 pointing neither northward nor southward. X-flipping will be wrong.
Loaded clip map.

Am I right, that these missing images are just work in progress or do I realy miss something???
Devastator model won't show up when I choose the waepon.

Edit:

Another thing...

Mapster wont start up with HRP-update.
Got to fall back for mapping

Edit Nr. 2:

Renamed the thread, because ill show off some progress in here and... now it's not only a "need help thread" anymore

[faked]

That looks really nice!

[Daedolon]

Deeper Micky, on 08 September 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

But you'd just see the sky instead, meaning the glitch will still be there and look ugly. I guess it's worth a try just in case..

But the glitch is specifically about sprites showing through each other, never had it happen with sectors.

[neoacix]

Yeah, no problem with sectors.
But sprites over sprites... and even making them one-sided won't help, I've tested it.

@grouchbag, thanks, but wait untill you see the rest.
I've just worked 5 hours only on a toilett, and it's still not finished. ^^
Which means... I give a lot about details and wan't everything to look and feel just right.

Duke has so much nice textures and stuff for this...

[Micky C]

Daedolon, on 09 September 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

But the glitch is specifically about sprites showing through each other, never had it happen with sectors.

The issue is about the alpha channel of the glass sprite causing the sprites behind it to become invisible in some areas. Completely different to the issue you're thinking of for 3D sprite work, which is mostly restricted to 8-bit renderer.

[Jinroh]

Neat looking Duke Burger. If it makes you feel better, the sprite glitch kinda adds to the rundown gas station on the side of the road Duke Burger look you got going on there. Like the ceiling is rusting or dirty or whatever. Unless it moves around or whatever then maybe not so much.

Still looks rad though.

[LeoD]

dpax, on 09 September 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Am I right, that these missing images are just work in progress or do I realy miss something???
Devastator model won't show up when I choose the waepon.

DukePlus and the HRP aren't perfectly synchronised ... visit 'my' thread again and get the DukePlus NixFix for your HRP version (don't put into autoload, but unzip(overwrite) into your DukePlus folder). This should make the firstperson devastator model show up and fix some more issues mentioned in the log.

[neoacix]

Thanks again LeoD, I downloaded the file earlier, but didn't used it, because you wrote nothing about it.
Will try it out now, hopefully mapster starts again then with the hrp-update.

[neoacix]

@Jinroh, that bad thing is, it changes a lot when you move around... ,but... I think it is such a small glitch, noone will care a lot about this, so I don't care anymore about it.

Well... time for some more spoilers!

Just finished the toiletts on my parking place.



And like the Duke Burger, you'll be able to walk / fly over them.
....and there's a secret inside.
The first secret on the map.

BTW... the next thing is a gas station next to this, which is almost completely destructable by.... wait... it got to stop spoilering things...

[neoacix]

EDIT: Problem solved! Had to make it flat...

Okay, I ran over a new problem...



There is this nice gaspump in DukePlus...
... and I'd like to blow it up.
Means, it should be destructable.

Usually, I just give sprites some unique Hightag combined with a crack and some C-9 to blow them up, but that sadly doesn't work with this sprite.

Anyone can help me with that?

[faked]

dpax, on 09 September 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Yeah, no problem with sectors.
But sprites over sprites... and even making them one-sided won't help, I've tested it.

@grouchbag, thanks, but wait untill you see the rest.
I've just worked 5 hours only on a toilett, and it's still not finished. ^^
Which means... I give a lot about details and wan't everything to look and feel just right.

Duke has so much nice textures and stuff for this...

You're welcome.It shows that you are trying to get everything just right.Thanks for replying.Still looking forward to this.

[neoacix]

Just finished this:



Fraps recorded only the music...

And I got to admit, I realy like this room:



It reminds me on good old times with duke1, secret agent and games like that...

[neoacix]

I ran over another problem...

I wanted to make a subway like sector, with a car sprite from dukeplus, which follows a path and will run in circles.
Actually it works nice, but...

I wanted to cause death if anyone will be driven over by the car.
So, I looked at E3L6 ... the subway.
All of you know it, if get in front of these subways, you'll die if they hit you.
I think that's because you got squished, because the walls of the train going from floor to ceiling.

In my map, that doesn't happens, because the sector is flat on the ground and you can move over it.
So, when my sprite-car on this sector comes along, you will just pushed over it.

Well, I looked at the SE from dukeplus and found the nice SE 666 (Lotag 666), which will cause instant death if you fall below it.
I used it and yes, player dies when the car hits him.

Sadly, and that's my problem, it seems not to work with enemies (monsters).
They just got pushed away, but they don't die.

I've tested a lot of things.... even if I put the monsters into a sector with the SE 666 inside, they won't die... until the move over it and then get under it again.

So, what else could I do to kill monsters by hitting a special sector?

[Spiker]

There is something called squish distance but I don't remember the exact value (512?) From what I know monster is squished if ceiling is on certain height above the floor. Try lowering the ceiling as much as you can. You can make it parallaxed if you want to hide it (depends how you constructed the train).

[neoacix]

Thanks for your reply Spiker.
It's a pitty, but I can't lower the ceiling.
It is an outside setting and therefore the ceiling must be on a high level.
Lowering only the ceiling in the sector of the car would result in a sudden height change when you fly with jetpack over the cars and I don't want this to happen.

I guess I have to live with that.

[neoacix]

New question:

I saw some maps with some new sound files in it.
How could I add new sounds to my map, without changing CON,... or overwriting files?

Would love to add some new things to my map, without changing con files.

[neoacix]

For the log:

I'm making good progress, but nothing good enough to show up something new now.
Tested out TROR and will use it later...
First ladder is in the map as well...
But the main progress is focusing on new buildings and improoving the "old" ones.
Also I build in an unfinished start up sequence, but ill keep on focusing for new base reltated buildings.

Atm I've got 5 buildings done and a lot stuff around.
But that's only 10 % of the full map, as I imagine it, because I give a lot about details...
So I got a lot of work to do...

I'll keep on working and updating this thread.

[neoacix]

So some history about this map while I'm working on it.

Duke3D...played it first time as a kid, grown up, played a lot of games since that.
Now, I like to play it again, in SP but especially in COOP.

Why?

Because I'm bored and tired of modern games!
Graphics and some stuff got better, but I just miss old pacings and stuff.
Miss stupid one-liners, kicking butts with 2 feets at the time.
Squishing, shrinking, icing and especially just bad manners in combination with easy and simple shot'em up!

No other game where you can put a alientrooper which shit in his pants when you come near it,
no other game where you can put all imagination into a map and have all these ridiciulous actions melt together in one gaming feeling.

I just like it!

And that's because im making this map.

Old school and some fresh new stuff... that's eDuke + HRP + DukePlus to me.

And I'm working towards to melt everything into one great map.

But, and this I got to say, I don't like ugly, uncreative maps like bases where every wall looks the same.
And I mostly don't like closed mapes, where you have invisible walls or walls in general everywhere.
Especially I don't like it when you can't get on top of a building.
So I allways wanted to make an open map.
A map full of funny details in every corner, which just feels alive, even if the props are static.
Not just a simple hunt for enemies, but more a feeling and maybe with some plot (yeah you can put that in Duke3d!).
I think with eDuke + HRP + DukePlus all necessary things are given to make this happen.

Polymer and the framrate,,, yeah, you got me there.
COOP with HRP and Dukeplus?...

I'm building this map for the future, to give the devs a reason to keep going on....

This map should be a benchmark of possibilty, and yes, it will also have TROR.

It only will work with latest eDuke32 + HRP + DukePlus.
Nothing more, nothing less.

[neoacix]

Today I decided not to spoiler any more images or videos on this map till the release.
Only some words to describe the progress, for your imagination.

Some TROR is now in.
Warehouse is done.
Next thing is a Coyote ugly bar...

Base entrance looks pretty nice as well, but that's only the beginning.

So much things to do, so little time...

[Spiker]

Sounds interesting! Good luck with it!

[neoacix]

Thanks Spiker. ;-)

I recently looked in some other maps to get some inspiration. Especialy Gambini with his freaking detailed maps is a big idol for me in that case.
So I stumbled over "blown_fuses", which is a Dukeplus map from him and then I suddenly noticed... holy crap... this map is less a quarter of the size of my map and he hit the wall limit, which I was not aware of untill I tried to add some walls in this map.
This was a totaly shocking moment for me, because I thought instantly, oh man, your map is a lot much bigger than this and you'll hit the wall limit befor it is complete.
So I load up my map, looked at the stats and calmed down. ^^
Around 5000 walls in there now, about 10000 left.
I quickly overviewed my map and thought, that would be probably enough for me, since I can lower the count with some detail reduction, if necessary.
Sprites and sector count looks good as well, but the wall count will be definetly the limiting thing for me.
But at this moment, I'm very happy that I work more with sprites then with walls and sectors, because the spritelimit ist much higher.
If I had used TROR from the begining, I quess my wall count would hit the limit much earlier.

Anyways, another thing is, the I've some fear of map bugs, since I originaly started mapping for Duke3D in Build more than a decade ago and ... you know... Build was full of bugs.
Im glad to say, after my map has around 530 sectors, 5200 walls and 2300 sprites and takes the half size of the grid map, everything works like a charm and there are no bugs, no map corruption or anything.

But the funny fact is, that I still save the map to a new file after some little progress because of this fear.
And so... my latest version and file of the map is 693. ^^
And yeah, I got all the files from 1 to 693 and I'll think I'll keep them as a little mapping history, till the release and then pack them all together to one zip file for archive.

At the moment im working on the biker-bar, which willl be a half TROR and half sprite building.
It's the last building of the parking side I've planned so far, which means, after this, I'll continue to build the millitary base, which give the map it's name.
Base entrance is allready done and looks great, but the main buildings and stuff is not there yet.

I think if I can hold my mapping speed on this project, the map will be done in 1 or 2 months.
But I'm pretty sure, after I've done all the buildings, sectors, SE and stuff, I'll will overlook everything again and put in even more things and details.
It's just the process, that you have to finish something and then you can look over it and rethink everything and make it even better.

Another fear that I have is the framerate.
This map will be realy huge.
You can fly over everthing and see pretty much everything from above (skycar will be in).
There is no building which has a roof you can't land and walk on!
So, atm everything is fine.
On my machine (Core i7, Geforce 560 GTX, Win7 64, 8 Gb RAM) framerate is okay.
But there is just 25 % of stuff in this map of what I've planned.
I've noticed that since the latest Eduke update, framerate gots higher and I hope that everything will be fine, when I release this beast.
I don't use much polymer lightings, or keep them small and also don't use to much details, which noone realy will notice.
I'm focusing to keep everything balanced and put details there, where they realy count.
So, actually, I'm realy quite optimistic.