[leilei]

 Cage, on 12 December 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

source ports based on it would be illegal right?

Yep. How many ports of Capstone's games can you find despite their source released without legal clearance?

And some of the source ports of other games i've seen from using leaked code are allegedly "original" code of russian origin.....

[Hendricks266]

 leilei, on 12 December 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

Yep. How many ports of Capstone's games can you find despite their source released without legal clearance?

That has more to do with the fact that those games are shitty and no one really cares. Once EDuke32's structure has been rearranged so that we can run SW too, TX and I agreed there would be nothing stopping Les Bird's games too.

[DustFalcon85]

 Daedolon, on 11 December 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Well it's not fading anywhere. We just have to make do what we have, and I will make do as soon as I get some free time.

So what do you mean by "get some free time" to do what?

Is the Blood IP in the hands of US Atari wing or Infogrames?

[Jimmy]

 Cage, on 12 December 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Hey, but even if someone with the source would leak it out, source ports based on it would be illegal right? What about not using the actual code from the source, but using it as a reference? Just curious.I've read this and the Keen source thread and just makes me even more sick of all those corporate practices. If it was up to me, I'd leak the source and try to cover my tracks as best as possible, but there's still the point above.

All you have to do is leak it and make sure everyone knows about it. Even if you got hit with a C&D and had to take it down, by that point the Streisand Effect takes over, everyone has it and many people will download it and archive it just to be contrarian and make sure it doesn't disappear. Same deal with an illegal port. Honestly, I think the fans have been cordial enough and it's really gotten sad at this point. I'd be more lenient to let them do what they want if they weren't just squatting the IP. They're not even trying to milk it. They don't care! All they have to do right now is hook up with a cool studio like General Arcade and say "Hey, port this to modern operating systems, slap some new bells and whistles on it and we'll sell it for $10 a pop and make back whatever money we're investing into this project." The official Steam Group for DN3D: Megaton Edition lists 785 members. And an untold more amount of players aren't even in the group. But even using those base numbers, at $10, and assuming anyone who bought DN3D:ME would buy a Blood port, that's $7850. There's no way they won't make money off of it. They seriously just don't give a shit because it's chump change to them.

 leilei, on 12 December 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

Yep. How many ports of Capstone's games can you find despite their source released without legal clearance?And some of the source ports of other games i've seen from using leaked code are allegedly "original" code of russian origin.....

Do you really think anyone is scared of Capstone's legal team?
Oh wait....

[Kathy]

 Jimmy, on 26 December 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

All they have to do right now is hook up with a cool studio like General Arcade and say "Hey, port this to modern operating systems, slap some new bells and whistles on it and we'll sell it for $10 a pop and make back whatever money we're investing into this project." The official Steam Group for DN3D: Megaton Edition lists 785 members. And an untold more amount of players aren't even in the group. But even using those base numbers, at $10, and assuming anyone who bought DN3D:ME would buy a Blood port, that's $7850. There's no way they won't make money off of it. They seriously just don't give a shit because it's chump change to them.

You are forgeting about General Arcade's salary and Steam's percentage.

[Jimmy]

That's my point. It's something they'll make a few grand on and won't lose money. A few grand means nothing to them.

[Hendricks266]

 Jimmy, on 26 December 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

I'd be more lenient to let them do what they want if they weren't just squatting the IP. They're not even trying to milk it. They don't care! All they have to do right now is hook up with a cool studio like General Arcade and say "Hey, port this to modern operating systems, slap some new bells and whistles on it and we'll sell it for $10 a pop and make back whatever money we're investing into this project." The official Steam Group for DN3D: Megaton Edition lists 785 members. And an untold more amount of players aren't even in the group. But even using those base numbers, at $10, and assuming anyone who bought DN3D:ME would buy a Blood port, that's $7850. There's no way they won't make money off of it. They seriously just don't give a shit because it's chump change to them.

Your math is simplistic, not for ignoring dev teams and Steam fees, because that's not how businesses operate. Seven grand wouldn't begin to compensate for the opportunity cost--in other words, "time is money", especially when you are employing hundreds of people who would be involved for legal work, publicity, management, bureaucracy... "Chump change" is right.

[termit]

 Hendricks266, on 26 December 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Your math is simplistic, not for ignoring dev teams and Steam fees, because that's not how businesses operate. Seven grand wouldn't begin to compensate for the opportunity cost--in other words, "time is money", especially when you are employing hundreds of people who would be involved for legal work, publicity, management, bureaucracy... "Chump change" is right.

I bet they can do half a million in six month if they just rerelease the game on Steam same way as Megaton or Redux. But it's still a small amount for WB.

[Daedolon]

You mean Atari? Atari owns publishing rights to both Blood and Blood 2, but WB owns the IP "Blood" afaik.

[Kathy]

Who owns source code?

[Jimmy]

Apparently Matt Saettler has it. It seems like Jace Hall either has it or knows how to get it. I would be very surprised if anyone from Atari has it. As I've stressed before they simply don't care.

[Jimmy]

 Hendricks266, on 26 December 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Your math is simplistic, not for ignoring dev teams and Steam fees, because that's not how businesses operate. Seven grand wouldn't begin to compensate for the opportunity cost--in other words, "time is money", especially when you are employing hundreds of people who would be involved for legal work, publicity, management, bureaucracy... "Chump change" is right.

Of course it's simplistic. The figures aren't out there, so I worked with what I had. The main point of my post is that there is a market for this sort of thing, and it appears everyone is doing well enough for themselves. I don't think there's any denying that. The larger point is that they are not a customer based company. It's all about bottom lines for them.

[Hendricks266]

 Kathy, on 28 December 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Who owns source code?

I think what you mean by this is "Who has the ability to give permission for a FOSS public release of the source code?". I really don't know.

 Jimmy, on 28 December 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Apparently Matt Saettler has it. It seems like Jace Hall either has it or knows how to get it.

Matt definitely has it. Note to noobs: Don't bother him about it!

As for Jace: (August 2012)

Aug 02 00:54:07 <jacehall>	i have the source code
Aug 02 00:55:28 <jacehall>	if I wanted to release the source i could of course
Aug 02 00:56:00 <jacehall>	however, i am not sure if that is the best thing considering what I would like to do

This conversation continued with him describing how he didn't want to release the source for a couple reasons such as "avoiding fragmentation like the Doom community" and "making MP cheating easy".

Jace Hall said:

In regard to the source code, I have reservations about releasing it due to it making it that much easier for people to cheat/hack whatever new system I put in place - and part of what I'm hoping to achieve with this potential project is a game that really allows people to build measurable value in their cummulative game accomplishments.

(source)

I did my best to shoot these down both in the chat and here, where you can also read the full transcript from the IRC conversation using the two links at the bottom of the post.

However, it turned out that Jace was giving us these reasons because he didn't want to get our hopes up. He believed that there was no way Atari would grant permission for a source code release, and the only thing they would even consider would be a conventional rerelease.

Jace Hall said:

Of course I have the source code for Blood in my possesion - however, that is not the issue. The issue is whether or not it could ever be released to the public, and I want to make it clear that it is not my decision. AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND that the companies that can make that decision are not inclined to ever do so in my opinion.

My inquiry here on this forum is not oriented toward trying to lobby companies for a Blood public source code release. I will leave that campaign and effort to others and wish them the best of luck with that.

(source)

[Lunick]

Mmmm, Blood.

[Sangman]

 Hendricks266, on 28 December 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

However, it turned out that Jace was giving us these reasons because he didn't want to get our hopes up. He believed that there was no way Atari would grant permission for a source code release, and the only thing they would even consider would be a conventional rerelease.

This is the conclusion every time this Blood source code release discussion flares up (which seems to happen about twice per year), I'm not sure why people expect a different outcome each time.

[Jimmy]

Because people think businesses make decisions depending on what the people want. Silly goyim.

[MrBlackCat]

As I read this thread I felt puzzled by the constant desire for "reasons"... which leads me to believe that the persons posing these questions have no concept of the mentality of corporate operations surrounding something like this.
I however do... but as I try to build a simple explanation in my mind, I realize there really isn't one as it is necessary to understand the motivations and daily business habits of persons who would ultimately make these decisions. Maybe metaphor would help...

First, the persons aren't sitting around waiting for anything. They are busy, probably overworked and underpaid, at least in their own minds, just as most of us believe. Metaphorically speaking, there are likely projects they have on their desks... like how to build this WalMart store in this part of town and make money with it... or there is the lemonade stand they could put up. And there are a dozen other projects to look at with various levels of opportunity between these two. Which do you think you would put effort into? I always think of the movie industry considering movies failures because they only profit a few million dollars... but why invest in some movie that may or may not succeed, when you can stick to Spiderman or other insanely successful movies?
You have to realize that these people most likely do NOT have unlimited resources and time. Why take a job for $13hr because fans would appreciate it (maybe) when you can take a job for $20 and hour with the greater potential? Most of us would do the same as "the suits" is the reality I have learned. It isn't about caring, it is about making a living.

I can say that I DID care at times and remained an outcast and was considered a "lose cannon" and "unpredictable" because I sometimes catered to caring about employees or customers as if I knew them. People that think as myself will usually never make it in a corporate world. I have met few who could.
On Jace and effort... he likely knows much we do not about how difficult and how much effort it would take to obtain I.P. rights and so on... and WHY would he put that effort in a maybe "good" thing, when the same or less effort elsewhere for a "huge-great" thing.

I have seen this process relative to software (not games) on a smaller scale, and the whole process is unacceptably complicated and time consuming, in my opinion. I can't imagine what something like these discussed IP's and their distribution would be like to organize.

Maybe one more...

You want money for yourself and your family, and while you could help your neighbors kid out with his lemonade stand on the weekend, would you choose that rather than work overtime at a job paying 100 times more even if he would be very grateful with all his being? Getting source code released or IP's sold or any such thing would require "lawyers" and that means money and effort with only appreciation as payment? Most companies "try" to look good in my opinion, and they base that on pleasing the biggest group of their fans, clients, or whatever... releases such as desired here are unlikely to fall into those categories.

Cutting it off here as there is so much to explain, it is kind of overwhelming and probably beyond what anyone is truly interested in... but believe me when I say, they don't care, because they simply don't have time, or their jobs don't likely allow it. The idea of pleasing fans, or doing things for the fans, as an Idealism, is more likely to be found in government than in business as it just isn't something that makes money.

MrBlackCat

[Radar]

Lol Blackcat. You sound like you have more wisdom than the average pupil. Maybe signing all my posts will make me sound wiser too. Behold the wisdom of The Great Radar.

Element of Laughter Pinkie Pinkamena Diane Pie

[Skulldog]

Warner Bros is to busy with the big Lego my Eggo Movie.

[Person of Color]

Quote

Oh my God, I FORGOT THIS WAS A THING.

[Blue Lightning]

The dream: Blood is bought and ported and offered on Steam for download.

I never got a chance to play it, but the YouTube video I saw looks good.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

 Blue Lightning, on 04 February 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

The dream: Blood is bought and ported and offered on Steam for download.

If only.

[Blue Lightning]

Well its on GOG which is fine with me!

[DustFalcon85]

*sigh* Looks like Devolver Digital going after the Blood rights is now a pipe dream.

https://twitter.com/...953243188416512

[Outtagum]

WB wants too much for it.

[Lunick]

 DustFalcon85, on 26 April 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

*sigh* Looks like Devolver Digital going after the Blood rights is now a pipe dream.

https://twitter.com/...953243188416512

We've known this since December... why are people asking a parody account...

 Lunick, on 11 December 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...867780443836416

Looks like we have a reason why now that no one else has gone after it...

[OpenMaw]

I honestly wouldn't be on it. For whatever reason, WB want's to keep the Blood IP dead and buried. Sometimes that's the corporate mentality sometimes. Why let someone else make money off of something when you can just hold onto it indefinitely?

[MusicallyInspired]

It's simple really. Company A acquired the rights to a game IP somehow from the original Company B who created it and now no longer exists. Company A has no plans to do anything with it because they've got other stuff going on. Company C has big plans for the IP and wants to buy it from Company A. Company A knows that if Company C gets a hold of it chances are they WILL do something great with it. Great enough to be competition for the stuff they've currently got going on (or not, either way it's enabling competition, which from a business standpoint is ludicrous). Instead of enabling that and losing out on revenue due to the sale, they charge an insanely high price so that either Company C buys it and compensates Company A for all the revenue they would have lost by selling it at a cheaper price, or Company C gives up and Company A remains competitor-less. At least as competitor-less as they were before the offer. It's just safer for Company A to keep "useless" IPs buried.

[Damien_Azreal]

 Lunick, on 26 April 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

We've known this since December... why are people asking a parody account...

Yeah, it's been known for a while that Devolver weren't going to continue pursuing the IP.
They were very up front when the chances of it happening fell through.

Quote

I'm confident that it will happen one day: it looks like the Duke and Shadow Warrior re-releases worked out quite nicely for Devolver so they will always be potentially interested in putting out Blood on Steam....

You can't go by DN3D or Shadow Warrior's recent STEAM releases. Both those games were owned by 3DR and arranged to bring them to Steam through both 3DR, General Arcade and Devolver.
Blood is owned by WB, DN3D or Shadow Warrior have nothing to do with what WB will do with Blood.

Devolver really would love to get ahold of the Blood IP and have Flying Wild Hog handle a reimagining of the series. But, WB have no desire to part with the IP. Mostly because they don't need the money. So for them, why sell something they could use later on? Most publishers sell off IPs when they are hurting. WB are far from being in a situation were they need to unload some IPs to get some money in.
And Devolver have said that given how much WB priced it, it would be an incredibly stupid move for any company financially to spend that amount on the IP.

Devolver are successful. And in their eyes, they don't want to become a "big" publisher. They've said that's the biggest issue with the gaming industry. That developers don't know that they don't need the publisher. Publishers need developers much more, and Devolver are well aware of this.
And they've had plenty of big hits. Sam 4 blowing up won't change how they run things. And it won't magically make WB lower the price of an IP they have zero desire in selling.