[Tea Monster]

Haven't you guys got tired of this yet?

[Radar]

Your puny human mind is only trying oh so hard to convince you that this argument is a waste, but deep down you know that you are really only trying to avoid having to make a rebuttal against the infallible and eternally-supreme Mikko Sandt.

[Twig]

Sarcasm translates really poorly over internet :/ But I see, it's local amniosity between you two.

[Come On And Slam]

Mikko_Sandt, on 06 June 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

There's a lot more variety in CoD than, say, Doom. Doom is so repetitive that I manage to play only 1/3 or 1/4 of a megawad before I call it quits. It's true that CoD games often degenerate into exhaustive combat setups but it's still a lot less stuck repeating the same formula as Doom.

Doom is only repetitive if you make it so. There's a lot more options on what to do than, say, in Call of Duty. Just because Call of Duty holds your hand and tells you that the next things you do are different, doesn't really mean that they ARE different. Usually, each mission is pretty much the same boring straight line, except it has a different skin and sometimes the enemies are different--and by different, I mean wearing different clothes and yelling differently. You could (and most likely will) say that Doom does this, but at least Doom doesn't FORCE you to run the same straight line and try to tell you that it is different. And not all of Doom's enemies are the same hitscanners, some of them throw fireballs, spawn enemies, resurrect enemies, etc etc etc. And not to mention, there is a helluva lot more variety in Doom's guns than in Call of Duty.
Speaking of the guns, let's see the difference between the two games...

DOOM

-Your fists, which when you get berserk powerups, you can punch demons into a bloody pulp.
-A rocket launcher that is actually useful and doesn't send rockets flying extremely far away from where you want them.
-A plasma gun.
-The BFG-9000... Which is a very interesting gun, and it really does add to the whole tactical-thinking stuff when dealing with tough monsters, especially with your first time playing and you don't know what is ahead.


Now, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

-A shotgun that kills enemies in two hits or less
-A shotgun that does about the same damage
-A machine gun that kills enemies in a few hits
-A machine gun that is almost identical, also kills enemies in a few hits
-A rocket launcher that is nigh-useless except for the scripted parts with vehicles, sadly it is not very powerful at all and only holds about two rockets at all.
-A pistol that has 2 identical twins, kills enemies in a few hits

And so on. Are you seeing a pattern? Most of the stuff is identical...it gets really boring, at least, in my opinion.

There isn't very much of anything variety sometimes since most of the levels are a straight line, and you don't DARE waver off of the path that they want you to...in games like Doom, you deal with situations in the ways that are possible; you just deal with them. And you don't have to watch 10 cutscenes about how you dealed with them. In Call of Duty, you deal with the situation in the way that they want you to, or you are punished.

Also, I'm not necessarily trying to say that you are wrong, but I must say, I very very highly disagree with the arguement that Doom is as repetitive as Call of Duty, and I think that there is plenty of stuff to back this up...

[MusicallyInspired]

That's a good point. Progression. Doom at least had a sense of progression. Finding new and more powerful weapons as you went along. It was a massive journey, with all the episodes. COD is a new mission every level and you get all different weapons each time. The levels in Doom got more interesting and the enemies got harder. COD feels like just more of the same every single level. Maybe in a different vein, I suppose (sniping here, charging in there, sneaking around here....mostly just charging in, though).

[Person of Color]

Slippy_Pig, on 06 June 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Doom is only repetitive if you make it so. There's a lot more options on what to do than, say, in Call of Duty. Just because Call of Duty holds your hand and tells you that the next things you do are different, doesn't really mean that they ARE different. Usually, each mission is pretty much the same boring straight line, except it has a different skin and sometimes the enemies are different--and by different, I mean wearing different clothes and yelling differently. You could (and most likely will) say that Doom does this, but at least Doom doesn't FORCE you to run the same straight line and try to tell you that it is different. And not all of Doom's enemies are the same hitscanners, some of them throw fireballs, spawn enemies, resurrect enemies, etc etc etc. And not to mention, there is a helluva lot more variety in Doom's guns than in Call of Duty.
Speaking of the guns, let's see the difference between the two games...

DOOM

-Your fists, which when you get berserk powerups, you can punch demons into a bloody pulp.
-A rocket launcher that is actually useful and doesn't send rockets flying extremely far away from where you want them.
-A plasma gun.
-The BFG-9000... Which is a very interesting gun, and it really does add to the whole tactical-thinking stuff when dealing with tough monsters, especially with your first time playing and you don't know what is ahead.


Now, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

-A shotgun that kills enemies in two hits or less
-A shotgun that does about the same damage
-A machine gun that kills enemies in a few hits
-A machine gun that is almost identical, also kills enemies in a few hits
-A rocket launcher that is nigh-useless except for the scripted parts with vehicles, sadly it is not very powerful at all and only holds about two rockets at all.
-A pistol that has 2 identical twins, kills enemies in a few hits

And so on. Are you seeing a pattern? Most of the stuff is identical...it gets really boring, at least, in my opinion.

There isn't very much of anything variety sometimes since most of the levels are a straight line, and you don't DARE waver off of the path that they want you to...in games like Doom, you deal with situations in the ways that are possible; you just deal with them. And you don't have to watch 10 cutscenes about how you dealed with them. In Call of Duty, you deal with the situation in the way that they want you to, or you are punished.

Also, I'm not necessarily trying to say that you are wrong, but I must say, I very very highly disagree with the arguement that Doom is as repetitive as Call of Duty, and I think that there is plenty of stuff to back this up...

This, this, this.

I'm not even going to bother making my own reply, you just wrote mine.

James and Mikko, you're both arguing to hear your own voice. I have no problem with people enjoying CoD but it takes balls to say it has more variety than Doom or Duke. Exactly as I was inferring before, with CoD, all the variety is an illusion.

[Jblade]

Quote

James and Mikko, you're both arguing to hear your own voice. I have no problem with people enjoying CoD but it takes balls to say it has more variety than Doom or Duke. Exactly as I was inferring before, with CoD, all the variety is an illusion.

Stop trying to end the debate with blanket insults like this, and trying to take the moral 'highground' (Which is rich coming from someone leaving insults on my profile page just because I downvoted one of his comments) I'm sure you love the sound of your own voice even more. If you're getting tired of the debate, just leave it. There's nothing at stake here, so don't try to leave with a departing shot, that's just childish.

[Forge]

this entire argument is comparable to debating over which is better: pac-man or ms. pac-man

[Lunick]

Forge, on 07 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

this entire argument is comparable to debating over which is better: pac-man or ms. pac-man

Pac-Man

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Lunick, on 07 June 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Pac-Man

Shows how stupid you are. Ms. Pac-Man is clearly the better title, because Pac-Man sold more and had greater significance in the gaming industry.

I think.

[Lunick]

Comrade Major, on 07 June 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Shows how stupid you are. Ms. Pac-Man is clearly the better title, because Pac-Man sold more and had greater significance in the gaming industry.

I think.

Pfft, Ms. Pac-Man is just DLC for Pac-Man that is overly sexualised because teens got off to pixels back in the day.

Please don't take me seriously

[Jblade]

Forge, on 07 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

this entire argument is comparable to debating over which is better: pac-man or ms. pac-man

Well to be fair I'm not trying to say CoD is better than the older games, or even visa versa. The topic got completely side-tracked but I think the point boils down to is that the game is culturally significant, and not just because Activision bought a bunch of reviews.

[Tea Monster]

Dude, seriously, Defender rules them all.

It's better because I say so and I know I'm right so there.

[Forge]

Defender vs. Choplifter

[Person of Color]

James, on 06 June 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Stop trying to end the debate with blanket insults like this, and trying to take the moral 'highground' (Which is rich coming from someone leaving insults on my profile page just because I downvoted one of his comments) I'm sure you love the sound of your own voice even more. If you're getting tired of the debate, just leave it. There's nothing at stake here, so don't try to leave with a departing shot, that's just childish.

LOL. Busting balls != insults.

And I was never vague, my points were concise and detailed.

[Jblade]

486DX2, on 07 June 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

LOL. Busting balls != insults.

Oh yeah you were really busting my balls with passive aggressive quips on my forum profile page, p-please spare me from your awesome onslaught!

[Forge]

my animosity detection meter is reading in the red.
coincidentally so is my stupidity detection meter.
it's just a video game. is it really that significant?
some people like grape, others like cherry (some hate both), but that doesn't make either one is "right" or "wrong" for liking what suits their taste

it's annoying when two people you like start slinging piss and mud at each other over nothing

[Kathy]

Forge, on 07 June 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

it's just a video game. is it really that significant?

If it's worth the time you play it then yeah, it is.

Quote

it's annoying when two people you like start slinging piss and mud at each other over nothing

No more than the 3rd one taking "I'm above this" position posting in the same topic with the same frequency.

[Ronin]

Some like CoD
Some like Doom
Some like both
Some like neither
Some like dogs
Some like cats
Some like neither
Some like jerking off with a hand full of crunchy peanut butter
Most don't

[Forge]

Cathy, on 07 June 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

If it's worth the time you play it then yeah, it is.

no. not really

Quote

No more than the 3rd one taking "I'm above this" position posting in the same topic with the same frequency.

but not even close to being as annoying as the smarmy know it all

big difference between taking sides and taking sides aggressively

[Forge]

Ronan, on 07 June 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Some like jerking off with a hand full of crunchy peanut butter

finger licking good

[Kathy]

Forge, on 07 June 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

no. not really

Why is something you actively pursue as a hobby is unimportant to actively discuss? It depends on your general character or persona at what lengths you want to go in discussion, but don't give the crap about it not being important to discuss on a FUCKING VIDEOGAME FORUM.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Cathy and Forge, stop slinging piss and mud at each other over nothing.

[Mikko]

Edit: Trolls & idiots should stop trying to derail the thread.

Slippy_Pig, on 06 June 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Doom is only repetitive if you make it so. There's a lot more options on what to do than, say, in Call of Duty. Just because Call of Duty holds your hand and tells you that the next things you do are different, doesn't really mean that they ARE different. Usually, each mission is pretty much the same boring straight line, except it has a different skin and sometimes the enemies are different--and by different, I mean wearing different clothes and yelling differently. You could (and most likely will) say that Doom does this, but at least Doom doesn't FORCE you to run the same straight line and try to tell you that it is different. And not all of Doom's enemies are the same hitscanners, some of them throw fireballs, spawn enemies, resurrect enemies, etc etc etc. And not to mention, there is a helluva lot more variety in Doom's guns than in Call of Duty.
Speaking of the guns, let's see the difference between the two games...

DOOM

-Your fists, which when you get berserk powerups, you can punch demons into a bloody pulp.
-A rocket launcher that is actually useful and doesn't send rockets flying extremely far away from where you want them.
-A plasma gun.
-The BFG-9000... Which is a very interesting gun, and it really does add to the whole tactical-thinking stuff when dealing with tough monsters, especially with your first time playing and you don't know what is ahead.


Now, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

-A shotgun that kills enemies in two hits or less
-A shotgun that does about the same damage
-A machine gun that kills enemies in a few hits
-A machine gun that is almost identical, also kills enemies in a few hits
-A rocket launcher that is nigh-useless except for the scripted parts with vehicles, sadly it is not very powerful at all and only holds about two rockets at all.
-A pistol that has 2 identical twins, kills enemies in a few hits

And so on. Are you seeing a pattern? Most of the stuff is identical...it gets really boring, at least, in my opinion.

There isn't very much of anything variety sometimes since most of the levels are a straight line, and you don't DARE waver off of the path that they want you to...in games like Doom, you deal with situations in the ways that are possible; you just deal with them. And you don't have to watch 10 cutscenes about how you dealed with them. In Call of Duty, you deal with the situation in the way that they want you to, or you are punished.

Also, I'm not necessarily trying to say that you are wrong, but I must say, I very very highly disagree with the arguement that Doom is as repetitive as Call of Duty, and I think that there is plenty of stuff to back this up...

CoD has much better pacing (although it's not exactly to my liking) and a lot more variety. There are vehicle segments, turret sequences, stealth segments, assault segments, defend segments and the environment changes pretty radically from one map to another. In Doom there's zero change in gameplay since map one and there are only several map types. Of course, every original Doom map is a classic but that's only because I grew up with them. There's no reason why someone who grew up with CoD should get giddy about them. They're just generic maps that repeat the same gameplay patter ad nauseam. I mean really, how long can you stay excited about being able to choose between the plasma gun and the shotgun?

It's silly anyway to compare weapons in these games since the games have vastly different settings. Would you complain about the lack of plasma guns in, say, Rainbow Six?

[Kathy]

Mikko_Sandt, on 07 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Edit: Trolls & idiots should stop trying to derail the thread.

(looks at thread's title)

[Ronin]

Mikko_Sandt, on 07 June 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Edit: Trolls & idiots should stop trying to derail the thread.

Former 3D Realms employee speaks out, not Cod VS Doom.
Thread left the tracks a long time ago.
Looks like the supreme lord of intelligence made a mistake, how about that?

[Forge]

Cathy, on 07 June 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Why is something you actively pursue as a hobby is unimportant to actively discuss? It depends on your general character or persona at what lengths you want to go in discussion, but don't give the crap about it not being important to discuss on a FUCKING VIDEOGAME FORUM.

instead of making smug quips at a single post, you should have noticed i've been trying to deflect the discussion from personal taste to the actual attributes of the game to avoid the nastier aspects of where the discussion was heading. i've been "acting like i'm above it" for awhile, but i suppose the pious may not have noticed until after the heat turned up and caused them to look around as to why their feet were getting hot

at some point it no longer became so much about the legitimacy of game itself as, "you are dumb and have no taste if you like this game", vs. "you are dumb and have no taste if you don't recognize this as a good game".
both are pure rubbish. it's called personal taste for a reason

[Fox]

I find it preposterous to compare Call of Duty to classic games like Doom. That's like saying that the Transformers movies sold a lot of tickets and in the future they will be remembered like The Terminator or Star Wars. It is not going to happen.

[Mikko]

Fox, on 07 June 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I find it preposterous to compare Call of Duty to classic games like Doom. That's like saying that the Transformers movies sold a lot of tickets and in the future they will be remembered like The Terminator or Star Wars. It is not going to happen.

Transformers is completely irrelevant, and I can say that without having seen it. None of the three movies was critically acclaimed or revolutionized the genre. They just sold well.

[Forge]

Mikko_Sandt, on 07 June 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

...nor[sic] revolutionized the genre. They just sold well.

that's what the CoD naysayers have been pointing out, though they still haven't directly refuted your original comments as to why it was "groundbreaking"