I saw this posted on the Steam forum for this today, in response to someone's long list of complaints about the binary that ships with Megaton Edition:
General Arcade said:
If you want to discuss with me how to make games, you should first show me your expertise in gamedev, show your finished products, then I will listen you. Instead of submitting bug reports you teaching us how to develop games. Continue in the same manner and get banned.
I find that response to be pretty concerning. It's a little bit ridiculous to rush a product to market after only a few months of development and then threaten to ban people from discussing problems they find in it after they (rightfully) compare it to free solutions that have been available for almost a decade.
Oh, so that's his username on there. Huh, I don't get it. Valid points about the port. People complaining about EDuke32, what the hell? And a person complaining about the HRP which has nothing to do with EDuke32 itself... My brain is broken.
Oh, so that's his username on there. Huh, I don't get it. Valid points about the port. People complaining about EDuke32, what the hell? And a person complaining about the HRP which has nothing to do with EDuke32 itself... My brain is broken.
Only as valid as someone who still didn't get the memo on why certain things couldn't be done. Let people complain about EDuke32. In the end, it wouldn't make the difference because the other thread was proof that everyone here would be in a pissy fit if EDuke was used. Seriously, that post was a huge facepalm. Then again, its only more annoying that someone can't accept that developers chose something else. If people hate EDuke, good for them. Its their opinion and their choice. The hate for it is only as vocal and prominent because of thread post. Get over it.
This post has been edited by s.b.Newsom: 26 March 2013 - 11:27 AM
I saw this posted on the Steam forum for this today, in response to someone's long list of complaints about the binary that ships with Megaton Edition:
I find that response to be pretty concerning. It's a little bit ridiculous to rush a product to market after only a few months of development and then threaten to ban people from discussing problems they find in it after they (rightfully) compare it to free solutions that have been available for almost a decade.
A lot of people complain about the HRP as if it was a part of EDuke32 because of those shitty torrent packs that come with old version of Duke Plus and HRP pre-installed.
Only as valid as someone who still didn't get the memo on why certain things couldn't be done. Let people complain about EDuke32. In the end, it wouldn't make the difference because the other thread was proof that everyone here would be in a pissy fit if EDuke was used. Seriously, that post was a huge facepalm. Then again, its only more annoying that someone can't accept that developers chose something else. If people hate EDuke, good for them. Its their opinion and their choice. The hate for it is only as vocal and prominent because of thread post. Get over it.
I simply said that I don't get it, I never said people didn't have a right to their opinion. I just think myself that it would make more sense if they did base the port off of EDuke32. Obviously they don't need every little thing from EDuke32. Cut out things they don't need to give a simple plug and play version of the port. Sure EDuke32 has its bugs as pointed out in that thread, but at least it has been kept current and up-to-date to the best of the developers' ability.
I just don't understand the logic, and I'm not going to pretend that I do. It doesn't matter, either way, they're going to release the source code. They might as well take the good portions of EDuke32 and put it in the port. I don't know maybe building up from an older port is easier than trying to cut things out that you don't need like polymer and whatnot. I don't know, but even so, there's older versions of EDuke32 available that didn't have it and many other features so I'm still confused.
All I've heard from the people here is that the port doesn't work well with a few exceptions, I won't have any idea for myself until they release the source code so I can compile it for myself and run it. I know no first release is perfect, and yeah the guy that posted was a nitpicking asshole, but it doesn't mean that problems don't exist. Until things get fixed and done, people will always continue to bitch about it. So in that regard I say get over it.
This post has been edited by Spirrwell: 26 March 2013 - 01:47 PM
Given Duke's reputation these days perhaps it would have been wise for 3dRealms/GeneralArcade to make Steam version the best version of Duke Nukem 3d. It's not 2008 when 360's port was a warm up for DNF. Now Duke Nukem can only rely on DN3d. And steam's version is considered as merely a retro game re-release, part of a gaming history, when with steam's community possibilities it could have been a revival.
I saw this posted on the Steam forum for this today, in response to someone's long list of complaints about the binary that ships with Megaton Edition:
I find that response to be pretty concerning. It's a little bit ridiculous to rush a product to market after only a few months of development and then threaten to ban people from discussing problems they find in it after they (rightfully) compare it to free solutions that have been available for almost a decade.
Pardon my expletive, but fuck that guy. What the Hell is it with lazy ass developers and the Duke Nukem IP?
You know, they really did screw the pooch here. They should have taken another six months to get the multiplayer to go FOR LAUNCH. They should have made sure everything that was in the DOS version was in their version, and they should have made sure things like the shading and textures were in proper shape. Just a little bug testing would have turned up most of these problems.
But no, it seems like Duke is condemned to half-assed releases. Duke Nukem Critical Mass, Duke Nukem Forever, and now Duke Nukem : Megaton Edition.
Cathy, on 26 March 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:
Given Duke's reputation these days perhaps it would have been wise for 3dRealms/GeneralArcade to make Steam version the best version of Duke Nukem 3d. It's not 2008 when 360's port was a warm up for DNF. Now Duke Nukem can only rely on DN3d. And steam's version is considered as merely a retro game re-release, part of a gaming history, when with steam's community possibilities it could have been a revival.
Yeah. This should have been the penultimate release of Duke Nukem 3D. Not shovelware.
First of all my response was inappropriate and wrong and I mentioned this in that thread. I'm always trying to be polite, you can check my other messages here and in Steam, but this guy was clearly trying to pisses me off. It started in different thread and I asked him to calm down and report the issues in special thread we created, he ignored me.
Second, my reaction was never about EDuke32 vs Megaton. We have EDuke32 related guides and question in FAQ how to use EDuke32 in Steam. it was about his assumption how game development decisions are made.
And third, most important, I don't want to Duke community members started hate each others because of me or Voodoo. This is what I mean:
why in the fuck are you forum idiots trying to use Eduke32 with Duke 3D megaton edition? seriously, freakin play it as is damn it. what, you dont like it?
why in the fuck are you forum idiots trying to use Eduke32 with Duke 3D megaton edition? seriously, freakin play it as is damn it. what, you dont like it?
why in the fuck are you forum idiots trying to use Eduke32 with Duke 3D megaton edition? seriously, freakin play it as is damn it. what, you dont like it?
Probably because EDuke32 is the most advanced source port and the data file that comes with Megaton Edition is identical to the Atomic Edition data file EDuke32 already supports.
While we're asking stupid questions, why are you a pot smoking Mexican? (sorry, his email address has "martinez420" in it, haha)
Second, my reaction was never about EDuke32 vs Megaton. We have EDuke32 related guides and question in FAQ how to use EDuke32 in Steam. it was about his assumption how game development decisions are made.
The more I think about it, the more I see the reasoning behind sticking with the simplicity of JFDuke3D. EDuke32 has a rapid pace of development with features like Lua integration, engine modifications (such as TROR and clipmaps), and a homebrew Wii port, and using it in a port would result in a lot of stuff being "halfway there."
However, a better move could have been made by using JonoF's latest code on GitHub (engine, audio, input, Duke, SW) rather than the outdated 20051009 version. [Correct me if I'm wrong here; I'm not completely familiar with the changes in JF's repos vs independent progress in EDuke32.] Looks like JF's GitHub was, in fact, used. My apologies.
In addition, important fixes from EDuke32 could have been backported. [edit: In fact, a handful were, but only for otherwise obviously broken functionality. These include Plagman's y-panning fix, and Helix's fixes for the chaingun HUD filtering seam and widescreen aspects.]
On the EDuke32 side, we are working to increase ease of use and compatibility with the Megaton Edition because in spite of any argued problems in the port, it is an excellent package for $10. Statistics say that thousands of players are enjoying it.
We might get in contact with you soon for a small change to the handling of extra-wide tiles like the status bar and loading screen background that should iron out the biggest remaining gaps.
GeneralArcade, on 26 March 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:
And third, most important, I don't want to Duke community members started hate each others because of me or Voodoo. This is what I mean:
Thread already removed. In that thread one user showed his private discussion HENDRICKS266. I feel that it's wrong.
Thanks for moderating the Steam forums. Part of me would have liked to respond to Twitchious again but I can only foresee such a thing devolving into a flamewar.
My original message, left as a comment on his Steam profile: http://pastebin.com/ZMSPeWFN Seems like Pastebin removed it. Here it is:
Spoiler
Quote
Hello. I am a junior developer of EDuke32. I saw your comments on the Megaton Edition and I have some suggestions to offer.
First and foremost, the Megaton port is based on a 2005 version of JFDuke3D, stripped of functionality (like using the original DOS software renderer and, as of the original Megaton release, any of the F1-F12 keys). EDuke32 is based on the latest JFDuke3D code from GitHub: https://github.com/jonof/jfduke3d
Therefore, EDuke32 is by definition more advanced than the Megaton port. [Necro-edit: I was wrong about this; Megaton is in fact based on the latest GitHub code. However, the EDuke32 SVN log [1] can to attest to all the advancements that have been made.]
Second, EDuke32 does not equal the HRP. The HRP is a mod that can use EDuke32. However, in its first few years, the HRP was designed for JFDuke3D, as EDuke32 was a fledgling. In fact, the HRP is usable to some degree with the Megaton port, though EDuke32 has added more functionality that the HRP requires since JFDuke3D's development cooled down.
Third, EDuke32's controls are in no way broken or inferior. Though the default layout differs from the DOS original (because WSAD+Mouse is the modern standard), the original layout can be returned with the use of a single option, as seen here: http://i.imgur.com/ofRtmIL.png
In addition, the old JFDuke3D code in Megaton suffers from mouse acceleration bugs that have long since been fixed in newer JFDuke3D code, and therefore, EDuke32. EDuke32's mouse settings are configurable--it is in no way a sloppy job.
Hating EDuke32 is irrational when your criticisms are frivolous or unfounded. EDuke32 arguably shows more concern for respecting the original game than the Megaton Edition. The Megaton Edition forces you to use the "Polymost" OpenGL renderer, created in 2003. Not only does EDuke32 give you the choice between it, the original software renderer, and a newer, more advanced, WIP renderer named Polymer, but Polymost has since been updated to add support for sector visibility and negative shading (both sorely missing from Megaton) and new shading algorithms to make it more faithful.
All I ask is that you not partake in willful misinformation.
I can't lend Twitchious any credence as he claimed ignorance of his original criticisms (archived on Imgur: [1][2]) and ignored everything of substance I had to say, attacking my claim of "more advanced" as a departure from the DOS original when I devoted a paragraph to explaining "EDuke32 arguably shows more concern for respecting the original game than the Megaton Edition."
Noobs will be noobs.
This post has been edited by Hendricks266: 27 March 2013 - 04:17 PM
Unless my eyes decieve me it seems JonoF is using FMOD in his build engine port. Any chance we might see this come to eduke32? I'd like some "3D Sound" from it someday.
There's 1 giant mega freakin issue that wasn't even mentioned in that thread. MODS, MAPS, USER MADE CONTENT. I mean seriously, even if Megaton one day becomes a perfect port of the original exe, people who only stick with it are missing out on thousands of hours of high quality content. The general gist of some of those guys were like "yeah eduke's fine but megaton is easier so most people will switch over to it".
I mean if those people are perfectly happy playing the original 1996 levels over and over that's fine by me. But they should acknowledge that the best, and in many cases the only way to play user content is with eduke32. It's like they don't even know user maps exist...
The only reason I bought Megaton was for the upcoming multiplayer version. Since Eduke32's MP doesn't work and all other MP softwares "don't work" or are "too complicated".
Oh and second reason was those expansion packs
Trooper Mick, on 26 March 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:
There's 1 giant mega freakin issue that wasn't even mentioned in that thread. MODS, MAPS, USER MADE CONTENT. - people who only stick with it are missing out on thousands of hours of high quality content.
While there are thousands of hours of high quality content, but there is also millions of terrible user made content. Finding the quality ones is just painful and difficult to install most of the time. Steam's Workshop might help a bit, but I'd rather have a Nexus style site where downloading and installing is piece of cake.
Too complicated?
If you handled with forum registration, you filled contact info, you know how to change avatar or send private msg then all MP software shouldn't be any problem for you. The only problem i can see for newcomers is "how to forward ports" or "color bug related with xduke/hduke on vista and win7".
Edit: I have also bought Megaton for Multiplayer but with current lack of standard settings it will be unplayable for me.
This post has been edited by Juras: 27 March 2013 - 06:59 AM
If you need any help with compiling source you can send me a message and I'm glad to help.
For menu we used awesome C++ library - libRocket (http://librocket.com/). With libRocket you can easily create UI with HTML/CSS-like approach. So if you decide to update menu in EDuke32 I recommend you to use this library. I don't think our menu will fit EDuke32 as it is in Megaton, because you will need to implement it in more flexible way to support modding, but I think it's possible to reuse some components or at least get some helpful ideas how to use and extend libRocket.
Help
Duke4.net
DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Part of me would have liked to respond to Twitchious again but I can only foresee such a thing devolving into a flamewar.
![[1]](http://i.imgur.com/mAKTqhm.png){kind=link}
![[2]](http://i.imgur.com/MJU5krr.png){kind=link}