[Lordareon]

i just dont understand why do i get downvoted =/

[OpenMaw]

Lordareon, on 22 January 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

i tried to remake the stadium level but all i had duke related stuff was slightly higher resolutions of the textures from Duke 3D.. assuming there would be an stadium version on the 1998 Duke i tried to to a little more "updated" stadium to start.. i know it doesnt look like q2 or unreal, the models i found on the net were better than on that time.. changing the textures to a more old feeling will come later on.. that was jsut a mockup

Well, one thing to keep in mind, is that the whole "Stadium flashback" element was not a part of the original game concept in 1998 and 2001. That was something they did with the 2007-2011 version of Duke Forever.

The locations featured in the 1998/2001 version of Duke Nukem Forever were as follows.

Lady Killer Hotel and Casino. (night)
The Streets of Las Vegas (night) - Including a highway chase.
The Nevada Desert/Ghost Town/Grand Canyon/Area 51
Hoover Dam
Some kind of a space outpost on the moon.


The weapons between the 1998 version and the 2001 version were as follows

Fist/Melee/Mighty Foot
Desert Eagle/Sniper Pistol
Mossberg Cruiser Shotgun (early on it had a scope mounted to it)
AR/M4/M16 style rifle with an American flag strapped around the carry handle. (With underslug grenade launcher.)
Rocket Launcher/Duke 3D style RPG
Some kind of a Lightning Gun (Seen briefly in the 2001 video)
A Flame Thrower with all kinds of interesting environment interaction. (Confirmed by Weider)
Pipe Bombs (2001)
Trip mines (2001)
Shrink Ray (2001)
Riot Shield (2001)
Some kind of an Alien Creature/Bomb (2001)

Although the Pig Cops were back in the early versions of DNF(Along with the Octabrains) there were also much more varied and kind of interesting monsters inhabiting certain locations of the game. "Army" Ants which later become "people turning into monsters." There were Grey-type aliens at Area 51 location. Some kind of Tremors type worm creature. Alien hover craft.


I think starting with everything that WAS different from those early trailers and using those elements to create a genuinely alternate experience to what DNF 2011 was would be the better way to go. Not trying to do something "sorta different" from it. I mean keep the locations and level concepts as they were back int he late 90s and early 2000s.

That's just my opinion, though. You, again, have to find exactly what you want to do with this project, and then get the ball rolling before you try to get people involved. People are very weary of these kinds of projects. They often get started, and rarely get finished.

[Lordareon]

thanks for the reply and support Commando Nukem.
Well.. i just read the whole Duke Nukem 1998 Topic and i've been thinking on the plot through lately.
the idea of the plot was to get the plot you just said and do it but i imaginated a little different beginning, with the stadium not being a flashback or game inside a game.. just redo it as if duke was in E3L9 and after finishing that level tell that duke went on vacation to Las Vegas and then the alien attack and resumes the normal original plot...
i got what you said about creativity, and i built this demo just to showcase what we can do and what im willing to do.. im still thinking before announcing anything...
besides that.. if i would preset this to gearbox, how i would so, and what should i send them?
i got working on the highway chase though i havent put it on the demo

i chosen other skybox, it looks cooler now

[Micky C]

What can you possibly expect to gain by getting Gearbox's permission? They're hardly any warmer than 3D Realms, which was shutting down Duke games on other engines left, right, and centre.

[OpenMaw]

Yeah, trust me, you don't want to bring this to their attention. Even some of the forum guys AT GEARBOX said "lay low" to the original 1998 team.

[Lordareon]

Cant we at least try then if it doesnt work then we keep to this forums? I dont know.. I think that the news about this will spread even if we dontwant.. Dont you think that now.. After almost 2 years after dnf they maybe change their stance about this.. All other projects were before or while dnf.. But not after

[Lordareon]

Even so, for what we need ask gearbox permisson for, is it just the name? What does include we making a "copy" of almost everything but different?

[OpenMaw]

Lordareon, on 22 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Cant we at least try then if it doesnt work then we keep to this forums? I dont know.. I think that the news about this will spread even if we dontwant.. Dont you think that now.. After almost 2 years after dnf they maybe change their stance about this.. All other projects were before or while dnf.. But not after

Trust me. From experience. They will shut you down. There is literally no reason to flag their attention. Once you have something ready for release, and put it out there, there is literally nothing they can do about it.




After a years work, we were shut down by 3D Realms. Don't get their attention.

[Lordareon]

Man... What i just saw was sick! It was so fucking cool! About the subject what you mean that after its done and release ir, theres nothing they can do about? They can send me a email saying "remove the unauthorized version of the game from download or we will come for you" ?

[Micky C]

Well the thing is once you put it on the internet, it's very hard to take it down. All it takes is one other person to download the files and it's pretty much out there forever.

What is Gearbox going to do, sue you? I'm guessing you don't have a large amount of money, and you're not a company, and you're not even selling the game. The fact is it's not worth Gearbox's time, money and effort suing you for whatever little amount of money they can get.

[Lordareon]

Isnt that the same if i recieve a cease and desist mail and just ignore it?

[OpenMaw]

Lordareon, on 22 January 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

Isnt that the same if i recieve a cease and desist mail and just ignore it?

Get it done under the radar and get it out there before they can C&D you. Simple. They're not gonna bother once it's out there.

Like, Alien Quake. The team behind it was forced to shut down after releasing version 1.1 back in the late 90s. But it's still out there, easy to find.

[Lordareon]

Micky C, on 22 January 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

What can you possibly expect to gain by getting Gearbox's permission? They're hardly any warmer than 3D Realms, which was shutting down Duke games on other engines left, right, and centre.

But if the c&d me, what if i just ignore the c&d, they still can only sue me, which is not going to happen

[Bloodshot]

Well if you aren't finished and you still persist in creating it, now that they are aware of it if they find out somehow that you are still working on it you might actually get sued.

But to avoid stuff like that, like commando nukem said about Alien Quake - get it out there, and it will ensure its survival in some form.

They can't close down the entire internet - all it would really take is to give the product to 5 people on this forum, and as long as those people aren't going to turn into dicks it will get out.

Yeah so I'm gonna go ahead and recommend you disregard my previous post about this subject

Commando Nukem, on 22 January 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

The weapons between the 1998 version and the 2001 version were as follows

Fist/Melee/Mighty Foot
Desert Eagle/Sniper Pistol
Mossberg Cruiser Shotgun (early on it had a scope mounted to it)
AR/M4/M16 style rifle with an American flag strapped around the carry handle. (With underslug grenade launcher.)
Rocket Launcher/Duke 3D style RPG
Some kind of a Lightning Gun (Seen briefly in the 2001 video)
A Flame Thrower with all kinds of interesting environment interaction. (Confirmed by Weider)
Pipe Bombs (2001)
Trip mines (2001)
Shrink Ray (2001)
Riot Shield (2001)
Some kind of an Alien Creature/Bomb (2001)

You forgot this bad boy:

[Lordareon]

Bloodshot, on 22 January 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Well if you aren't finished and you still persist in creating it, now that they are aware of it if they find out somehow that you are still working on it you might actually get sued.

But to avoid stuff like that, like commando nukem said about Alien Quake - get it out there, and it will ensure its survival in some form.

They can't close down the entire internet - all it would really take is to give the product to 5 people on this forum, and as long as those people aren't going to turn into dicks it will get out.

Yeah so I'm gonna go ahead and recommend you disregard my previous post about this subject



You forgot this bad boy:

Got it! Thanks for the help from you all, well then ill keep posting the updates at the same rate as i can because university is coming back now so i dont know.. Then after i got some solid base ill search for a team and develop at closed doors

[NUKEMDAVE]

Lordareon, on 22 January 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

i chosen other skybox, it looks cooler now

Something more along the lines of this would look even better:

[Lordareon]

Well considering the stadium isnt in vegas, the vegas part of the game that would be the skybox of picking
And whats you opponion nukemdave? Bout the "project"?

[NUKEMDAVE]

Lordareon, on 22 January 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Well considering the stadium isnt in vegas, the vegas part of the game that would be the skybox of picking
And whats you opponion nukemdave? Bout the "project"?

It looks interesting for the little bit that is there. I'll have to see more first. I say go for it if you think you can do it. If it was on the Build Engine instead, though, I could probably help. I started to build the Lady Killer Casino in Mapster32 a while back.

[Micky C]

Duke Nukem Eternity is by far the closest we're going to get to a DNF on the build engine. I can't imagine anything else coming close.

Why is it that whenever people mention remakes or whatever of DNF, DNE never gets mentioned? Is it because not many people were able to play it due to the system requirements?

[OpenMaw]

Micky C, on 23 January 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Duke Nukem Eternity is by far the closest we're going to get to a DNF on the build engine. I can't imagine anything else coming close.

Why is it that whenever people mention remakes or whatever of DNF, DNE never gets mentioned? Is it because not many people were able to play it due to the system requirements?

Yeah, I think that's part of it. My computer can play DNF on max settings with a stable frame-rate. I can't do the same with DNE. It's a great project, and it really pushes the envelope in a lot of ways. It looks and plays just like a modern Duke Game should (IMHO) but at the same time it still is essentially just a "Build engine/Duke3D Mod." I think many people want something that goes beyond that.

[Micky C]

Personally I think it transcends the build engine.

With polymer, DanM was able to create very realistic 3D geometry and layouts just as you would in any 3D engine. Plus with the normal and spec-mapped HRP textures and models, and of course plenty of dynamic polymer lights, it easily could get away as a 2004/2005 game in many ways. And since he used curved and circular walls and sectors at pretty much every opportunity, he completely avoided the whole blocky look of most 2.5D engine maps. As if that wasn't enough, the numerous amazing coded features, effects and cutscenes really gave it that extra bit of freshness, wow-ness, and (modding) professionalism.

[ReaperMan]

I have an idea... anyone ever play Voxelstein 3D? Imagine that... but with Duke Nukem.

[Lordareon]

NukemDave got me thinking about using the Build Engine.. most people here have experience with it.. and if we do a total Conversion and using eDuke's Advanced Features... we might end with something very similar

[Lordareon]

Ill try to remake that Stadium there and some DNF screenshots too..

[Lordareon]

I mean doing really a Total Conversion, change everything so it doesnt even look like another duke mod, that it looks like a game on his own.. im pretty sure it can be done

[Bloodshot]

The only problem with polymer is that while it looks good it runs pretty bad with everything enabled. I can max out every game in recent memory including Crysis and they are quite playable, yet DN eternity and the HRP with polymer, while the FPS I get is good, stutters like no other engine I've seen.

[Lordareon]

i've considered that but i was planning to use Polymost, only is theres a reason to dont use it.. i think the polymer graphics are just too advanced to what we are trying to create... and i've trouble running eternity too =/ i was playing around with DukePLus. there might be a lot things tha dukeplus implements that well use... ill have to read about the DEF language and dig up my doombuilder skills to use mapster... i think its easier to do this way and broader range of people have knowledge at editing duke 3D
i think that Blood 2 Engine would be EXACTLY what duke Forever would look if it was released at 1998

after that ill try to redo this scene in Duke, and try to make it look as close as i can

[Micky C]

Polymer is definitely the way to go if you're going to make anything vaguely DNF. Then again as soon as you use the build engine you lose everything unique about it, and I still don't think you're going to get too much help, all the mappers are tied up in their own projects, and they're not going to drop everything and start working on a new idea that isn't theirs or original. Same story for coders and artists unfortunately.

I doubt the quality is going to come close to DNE anyway. The only reason in my mind that it isn't the ultimate DNF experience is that it doesn't have any outer space levels or giant desert/canyon levels, but the city levels are awesome. The only thing your project would hold over DNE is that people would be able to play it without Duke3d.grp, however it would take an insane amount of work to replace all the textures, models and code, and make all the maps to get to that point.

I would love a DNF that looks a bit like this:

http://forums.duke4....&attach_id=5665

and this:

http://forums.duke4....&attach_id=5640

Edit: Let's not forget this:

[Lordareon]

that two last images is what im trying to say is possible.. though i know that lightning with polymost is jsut not possible
polymer graphics IMHO have some light reflections much advanced to what a DNF 98~01 would be.. the only thing i think polymost doesnt have is the fancy colored light that quake have and onwards.. well ill gather the textures from that scene i mentioned and ill try to remake it on several engines... the one that comes better will be the one.
While this i managed to recover that nuke lights from the background, its not very perfect but to mockup purposes will fit well

[Micky C]

Well as you see from my edited post the only way to imitate 2001 DNF is with polymer.