[Jinroh]

I always hated The Birth but it's probably because I didn't get the Atomic Edition until way later than I got the original Duke 3D.

[nukemania]

This is hard to decide.

It took me forever to get ahold of the Atomic Edition, so the Birth was something I wanted to try for a long time. When I did, I really enjoyed it, so I guess it's a sort of bias.

I like all 3 original episodes, but I guess I like Lunar Apocalypse infinitesimally less due to repetition.

[sebabdukeboss20]

Why do you have 2 topics, one specifying levels, but have the exact same poll?

[NNC]

Shrapnel City. The other episodes have professional looking levels, SC seems like a mess in comparison. Freeway and LA Rumble are the exceptions.

[t800]

So much aversion against The Birth? I am honestly surprised and I am actually interested in knowing why.
Question adressed to who voted for it - what are the main reasons you dislike fourth episode.
Dont worry, I dont want to argue with you and persuade you that my opinions are the right ones, I just want to understand your point.
But please post real reasons, not like this: "I think it sucks because I had to wait for it because I missed it when it got released."

[Hendricks266]

The level design is questionable in some areas, especially around XXX-Stacy. Shop-n-Bag is unfinished. The Queen is 2x repetitive due to the symmetry.

[Mikko]

Lunar Apocalypse. I mean, it's good, I'm happy it's there and it's got some classic maps but I wish it had more variety. Now they're all just generic hi-tech/alien bases. Howabout a map taking place outdoors or in a lunar mine, or howabout a colony with recreational areas & such?

[Loke]

XXX-Stacy sucks ass. So fucking boring to play. Ugh. Shame on an otherwise excellent episode.

Otherwise I'd have to say Lunar Apocalypse, I mean I don't particularly hate it but compared to the other episodes it's a tad tedious and sometimes frustrating.

[TerminX]

The one I like the least is definitely Lunar Apocalypse. Roughly the first half of the episode was produced within about a month of time directly before the full version of the game was released. I can't remember if it was 2 weeks or 2 months, so I'm going with a middle figure. The admission from Broussard himself as to how rushed it was can be found in an interview with him in this book.

I guess it being so rushed at the end of development is both a good and a bad thing... it's a good thing because the mappers had the "flow" of making Duke maps down very well at that point, all of the sector effects were finished and working, etc, so the actual mapping is pretty high quality and free of glitches, but it's a bad thing because the maps are frankly generic and uninspired.

[MetHy]

I'd say the birth because it lacks constitency. It's not really an "episode", it's more like a collection of maps. Plus, those maps tend to focus too much on the humour, to the extent of overdoing it compared to previous episodes. Also mapping quality can vary from room to room and the episode has the worst cases of "gigantic ugly plain walls surrounding the entire level" (think Dukeburger or Going Postal).

It's funny because a lot of usermaps, especially modern style city ones, were directly inspired by that episode imo... (the way they try to recreate all kinds of real life locations very realisticly)

I have to admit that the 2 new monsters and the new weapon were great additions though.

I for one like Lunar Apocalypse a lot, even though it's the episode that had the least impact on the community.

If this poll included official add-ons, it's say Life's A Beach is the best by FAR though. I've always dreamt of making a usermap for it.

[TerminX]

 MetHy, on 28 September 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

I have to admit that the 2 new monsters and the new weapon were great additions though.

The expander was probably a "great addition" because it was just something cut from the original game and directly reused. You can actually find it mentioned in some pre-release interviews from 1995, and you can see it pictured on the side of a generic 3D Realms/Apogee mail order box in a VERY early beta screenshot. The shot shows a battlelord model in a default unrigged pose in an episode 2 styled map, and the player is holding what looks to be an early shrinker with the telltale red crystal instead of green. It's anyone's guess as to whether the little dish was there when it was cut or if it was added after the fact, though.

[NNC]

 TerminX, on 28 September 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

The one I like the least is definitely Lunar Apocalypse. Roughly the first half of the episode was produced within about a month of time directly before the full version of the game was released. I can't remember if it was 2 weeks or 2 months, so I'm going with a middle figure. The admission from Broussard himself as to how rushed it was can be found in an interview with him in this book.

I guess it being so rushed at the end of development is both a good and a bad thing... it's a good thing because the mappers had the "flow" of making Duke maps down very well at that point, all of the sector effects were finished and working, etc, so the actual mapping is pretty high quality and free of glitches, but it's a bad thing because the maps are frankly generic and uninspired.

I actually think the first half is superior to the second half. I like the first five levels, as they had some atmosphere. But there goes Tiberius Station and Lunar Reactor, two of the most unattractive maps I played for this game. You really have to fight in vents against Protozoid Slimers in almost half of your gameplay? And the rest were just grey corridors, felt like something from Robert Travis. Dark Side returns to form, and it's really the best one of the episode, but there goes an uninspired final level. And I didn't mention the lame secret ones.

That said, I like Lunar Apocalypse, and prefer it to Shrapnel City's messed up city levels, but mostly for its first half.

[NNC]

 MetHy, on 28 September 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

I'd say the birth because it lacks constitency. It's not really an "episode", it's more like a collection of maps. Plus, those maps tend to focus too much on the humour, to the extent of overdoing it compared to previous episodes. Also mapping quality can vary from room to room and the episode has the worst cases of "gigantic ugly plain walls surrounding the entire level" (think Dukeburger or Going Postal).

It's funny because a lot of usermaps, especially modern style city ones, were directly inspired by that episode imo... (the way they try to recreate all kinds of real life locations very realisticly)

I have to admit that the 2 new monsters and the new weapon were great additions though.

I for one like Lunar Apocalypse a lot, even though it's the episode that had the least impact on the community.

If this poll included official add-ons, it's say Life's A Beach is the best by FAR though. I've always dreamt of making a usermap for it.

Aside from E1, the only time I actually feel going from somewhere to somewhere are Cricital Mass and Derelict. The connection between them were really good. But I see your point.

[MetHy]

 Nancsi, on 28 September 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I And I didn't mention the lame secret ones.

The secret levels are great bonus levels because they show what can be done with SoS with the Build engine. They're not only unique in video games in general but they are also even unique in Duke3D itself : how many usermaps make use of SoS is such a way? Only Geoffrey's Dm Ducts come to my mind.

[NNC]

 MetHy, on 28 September 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

The secret levels are great bonus levels because they show what can be done with SoS with the Build engine. They're not only unique in video games in general but they are also even unique in Duke3D itself : how many usermaps make use of SoS is such a way? Only Geoffrey's Dm Ducts come to my mind.

Yes, but they should have been in the extras menu instead of being part of the main campaign. It would have been a lot smarter to use levels like Fusion Station as a secret level instead.

[Mikko]

I always liked Lunar Reactor; it felt like an adventure.

[Loke]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 29 September 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

I always liked Lunar Reactor; it felt like an adventure.

Both Lunar Reactor and Dark Side are both excellent maps with Dark Side (can't emphasize enough on how much I love that BGM) being one of my favorite map in the game.

[NNC]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 29 September 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

I always liked Lunar Reactor; it felt like an adventure.

Some parts of it is fine, but those slimer "battles" are terrible. Especially hate the part after the blue key door (with the miniboss). Also I don't like those unattractive white corridors in the middle. The outside area works well, also the reactor area.

[Gambini]

The one in the moon. I never EVER could play it for more than five minutes without getting bored and quitting. Such a shame I never finished any of the episodes. The two ones i went further were the shareware one and the birth.

[Kathy]

 Gambini, on 08 October 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Such a shame I never finished any of the episodes.

The hell?

[OpenMaw]

 Burnett, on 08 October 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

The hell?

Indeed!

Not even LA Meltdown? You shame yourself, sir!

[MetHy]

 Gambini, on 08 October 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Such a shame I never finished any of the episodes.

You gotta be joking.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

I'm scratching my head over someone's choice of L.A. Meltdown as the worst episode. That implies that the person didn't like the shareware episode enough in order to purchase the registered version of the game. But then, you can only play the other episodes if you have the registered version.

Pirates ahoy?

[Kathy]

Choice of L.A. Meltdown simply implies that other episodes were better.

[DustFalcon85]

Hmm. I don't have a episode that I hate. They're all great episodes anyways.

[Blue Lightning]

I probebly like Lunar Apocolypse the best. The whole "lonely space atmosphere" thing they had going, with the shadows and the views of Earth and all that. I like how some levels were in orbit, and others were directly on the Moon. I think the team did a great job and every map was fun, I dont care how little time they spent on that episode.

Probebly my least overall favorite is "the Birth". As it was said by Methy, "it lacked consistancy, and was more like a collection of maps". Let me add that a few of the levels were very linear, which is not "Duke-like". Still a fun eppy to play though, funner than 99% of the games out there.

[Fox]

The Birth is the worst episode out there. The first of half is fun, but after Going Postal is gets frustrating. While Derelict has an impressive design, but it is too big. The quality of maps in Shrapnel City varies a lot, so probably I would put it behind The Birth. Both have a "map collection" feeling.

Spin Cycle and Tier Drops are the worst maps out there, their purpose is only to show one specific special effects. I am glad they cut them out in Duke Nukem 64.

 TerminX, on 28 September 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

The expander was probably a "great addition" because it was just something cut from the original game and directly reused. You can actually find it mentioned in some pre-release interviews from 1995, and you can see it pictured on the side of a generic 3D Realms/Apogee mail order box in a VERY early beta screenshot. The shot shows a battlelord model in a default unrigged pose in an episode 2 styled map, and the player is holding what looks to be an early shrinker with the telltale red crystal instead of green. It's anyone's guess as to whether the little dish was there when it was cut or if it was added after the fact, though.

Hey, thanks for the info. Thanks for posting a picture too.

[MetHy]

 Fox, on 12 October 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Spin Cycle and Tier Drops are the worst maps out there, their purpose is only to show one specific special effects. I am glad they cut them out in Duke Nukem 64.

I love the concept. I wish there was more maps based on one effect and exploit it in original ways.

[Blue Lightning]

Yeah, I gotta say I love the Spin Cycle concept and found it quite enjoable. Tier drops was good too. With Spin Cycle when you throw a bomb or fire a rocket down the track or up the track or across, and how it behaves depending on which you did, was interesting. At the time Spin Cycle was probebly the best demonstration of physics in a video game.

It's still a great demonstration of physics in a video game.