[Jimmy]

Tea Monster, on 30 October 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Oh, and trying to make furniture and even vehicles out of sectors? Just don't go there.

Obviously never played the Roch series.

[SPYmaps]

I understand your hesitation Diaz, for releasing that map because of all the assets from other games.
But, like you said yourself, those are old games by now that you used the assets of so i don't think you will get
trouble with it when you should release it. We see more and more (HL2 and ep1+2) sp-maps/mods released that
use other games assets and i never heart of any complains from those games developers. Only with assets from
very new games you maybe could run in to that trouble. The worst thing that could happen as far as i know is that
you are asked to take it down again from the internet. So, i should release it if i was you when that is the only
reason why you don't want to release it. Personally i have used a ton of music from other games like COD, Mohaa,
Fear and Prey in several of my large sp-mods and i never have heart anything about it. Although i do understand
that music is probably looked at differently compared to using models etc. I also use a lot of ambient sounds from
those games. Just now i remember that you said that the map was more a test as that it was meant as a real
well playable map, so i can understand that you still will not release it because it only has a very small play time.

I have to say, i am glad so many people keep commenting here in this topic of mine. I do learn with each comment
about using the Build for my indie game, and it's downsides.

The text line that i did read some were, that the Build is probably the best tool for a one man indie game project is the
best way to describe my probable choice for the Build engine.

Leon

[Diaz]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to do. I'm even using a Marcus Fenix model for small cutscenes!

The map has a quite short playtime, with a couple of simple puzzles squeezed in. I was going to even make a small mod with some more maps but realized I don't have time to map with Hammer. It's very slow.

I'm preparing it for release just in case; it's being a pain, cause I'm using assets from Counter-Strike, Episode 2 and Episode 1, and there are a lot of textures that don't display correctly because the .GCF's aren't mounting as they should. The real problem is that the map includes custom .dll's and those are obviously from the 2007 version of the engine, while the actual game runs in the 2009 version.

If I put it up I'll let you know

BTW, was the Source 2009 dll source code ever released?

[SPYmaps]

I'm not sure if the 2009 dll is released yet, and the 2009 Hammer version is indeed the right editor
version now. Its very stable. I can imagen that it is a huge task to make it all releaseble, but please
do give a sign indeed when you have done so.

Leon

[Diaz]

Well the map isn't really for Source 2009; since I'm including custom DLL's, it NEEDS to run on Source SDK Base 2007. And then, the .GCF's don't mount correctly

I might just skip the DLL, though the short gameplay becomes then even shorter due to easiness (I had added a new health system and misc. stuff)

[TerminX]

Captain Awesome, on 30 October 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Obviously never played the Roch series.

Nah, he just didn't want Pascal to come back from the dead and start accusing people of ruining his life again due to theft of sprite chairs.

[Mblackwell]

These days it's all about the benches, man.

[Gambini]

Diaz, on 31 October 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

Well the map isn't really for Source 2009; since I'm including custom DLL's, it NEEDS to run on Source SDK Base 2007. And then, the .GCF's don't mount correctly

I might just skip the DLL, though the short gameplay becomes then even shorter due to easiness (I had added a new health system and misc. stuff)

I also have a mod which I´m working on inside Ep2´s 2009. When the release moment comes, I´ll port it all into a 2007 mod. I have read it is difficult and already know about a few features I´m using that won´t work. But I´m sure someone is going to help me recompiling the code. Have the urge to show it to you:



I have not only made my own benches but also all kind of vehicles, textures and everything that doesn´t come with the original game. There are still a few free models I´m using as placeholders but they will be surely replaced.

[Diaz]

That looks really nice Gambini. Your use of colours and attention to detail are smashing, and being able to make your own textures is a big plus. I can both map and model but it's texturing that forces me to rip things (well that and my lack of time); I really suck at it, lol.

[SPYmaps]

wow, great screens Gambini. And i love all those custom made models of yours!
i always love large outdoor maps, some of the screens do make me think of Stalker a bit.But that is
a compliment!!

Leon

[Gambini]

Thanks for your words, both.

Quote

but it's texturing that forces me to rip things

I pretty much have been forced to learn texturing because my models needed skins Then I just had to apply the experience on textures strictly speaking.

[Helixhorned]

Mikko_Sandt, on 29 October 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

There are so many things that are way, way backwards in Build such as handling sloped surfaces

That's just legacy, and won't change in forseeable future. Keep in mind that it was revolutionary at its time!

Quote

copying/pasteing sectors or moving around larger selections with complex spritework (which is very quick & easy in Worldcraft/Hammer)

What exactly is wrong with that other than you can't cross walls when dragging an RShift-highlighted portion and such? There's also the make-inner-loop from RAlt-selection feature which is supposed to help a little. Feel free to complain at the Mapster32 thread of course, I'm curious to know what the major usability issues are.

Quote

textures often seem to have a life of their own

Agreed. The problem here is that texturing in BUILD has an offset (panning) and scale (repeat) parameter, and the latter is not an absolute measure but rather dependent on the wall length.

Quote

and, most of all, the old DOS-type interface is terrible (you need to memorize keys, there's only one grid view mode, etc.).

That's a matter of taste. Key chords FTW . The only issue IMO is that the combinations are not very discoverable -- there's the wiki which get updated from time to time, but ideally there would be an official listing that stays in sync with the program. Unfortunately, I've been too lazy to update the Mapster32-provided help page with the new key combos.

[Diaz]

Helixhorned, on 05 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

That's just legacy, and won't change in forseeable future. Keep in mind that it was revolutionary at its time!

It's still not that much of a pain to deal with. I can make arches quicker in Build than in Hammer; alt+[ ] works wonders. Texturing their front, where there may be small walls with textures that have a "life of their own" as it's been said, is easily solved by slapping a wall-oriented sprite with an arch top texture. Looks really nice.

[t800]

Quote

and, most of all, the old DOS-type interface is terrible (you need to memorize keys, there's only one grid view mode, etc.).

Maybe I am mistaken, because I am just layman in world of Duke3D modding, but I heard about LEBuild (Lezing's build editor) which actually has GUI.
In fact, from my layman's view I am honestly surprised by its unpopularity (or better worded - obscurity in Duke3D modding community).
Link: http://lzg.duke4.net/leb10.htm

[TerminX]

LEBuild is a cool utility for stuff like generating specialized wall layouts and sprite structures, but it falls a bit flat as far as usage as a general purpose full-time map editor goes. The lack of a real 3D mode (yes, there is 3D mode drawing code in LEBuild I believe but you know exactly what I mean when I say "real" 3D mode...) really hurts it.

Otherwise, I think it's chock full of functions that would be great additions to Mapster32. Honestly, if it had been written in C the best parts of it would have been merged into Mapster32 to create an unholy matrimony of BUILD editing greatness by now, haha.

[Micky C]

The annoying thing is that LEBuild isn't compatible with the latest map format (with TROR), so since then it became a lot less useful than it already was. Which is a shame because it has some awesome stuff. And I couldn't care less about the user interface (the only necessary parts of it were those for the new features anyway), the sector modelling tools and all the little features that saved time which all added up are what mattered.

[High Treason]

I use LEBuild as well as Mapster. It is a very useful editor and has some features that Mapster32 doesn't.

As I'm oldskool in my ways (despite the appearence of my levels, maybe, I dunno, it may bleed through) I don't run into the TROR problem as I do that last if I ever use it. Anyway, you could always build stuff in LEBuild and copy/paste it into Mapster later, I even did this without TROR in one of my maps.

[OpenMaw]

I'd love to see a "Doom Builder" style editor for Eduke. With plugin project settings (1.3D, 1.4/1.5, Eduke(Expanded limits). With a better texture browser setup (Where you could categorize the textures by what they are "Liquds" "Tech" "City" "Space" "Alien"). Have Polymer lights be ready-set within the editor and only have to mess with the fundamental settings (Angle, size, brightness/color)

[Mblackwell]

You actually can already categorize the textures...

http://wiki.eduke32....guage#tilegroup

[OpenMaw]

Mblackwell, on 05 November 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

You actually can already categorize the textures...

http://wiki.eduke32....guage#tilegroup

Yes, but i'm talking about something built into the editor and ready-to-go on installation.

[Gambini]

I once made a custom tiles.cfg where I labeled most textures. It came very handy when building last map as I made labels for wall, nature, floor, roof, props, breakables, etc. Too bad it got lost somewhere while updating my Eduke copy. Otherwise I´d upload it,

[Mblackwell]

It is in-editor... in text editor. And then you use it in Mapster32. And there's a default one included in every EDuke32 installation that at least includes all of the useful actors (enemies, ladies, etc), items, effectors, explode-y bits, and door tiles (plus a few other things).

It's more useful for it to be generic and easily changeable than fixed since a stand-alone mod isn't going to need the same tiles.cfg at all. There's also shortcuts to skip to the old user tiles and ATOMIC tiles, and then beyond.

http://wiki.eduke32....cting_Tile_Mode

[OpenMaw]

Mblackwell, on 05 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

It is in-editor... in text editor. And then you use it in Mapster32. And there's a default one included in every EDuke32 installation that at least includes all of the useful actors (enemies, ladies, etc), items, effectors, explode-y bits, and door tiles (plus a few other things).

It's more useful for it to be generic and easily changeable than fixed since a stand-alone mod isn't going to need the same tiles.cfg at all. There's also shortcuts to skip to the old user tiles and ATOMIC tiles, and then beyond.

http://wiki.eduke32....cting_Tile_Mode

I get what you're saying, and i'm saying it's not the same thing from the perspective i'm talking about. It's not worth an argument.

[Lunick]

Commando Nukem, on 05 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

I'd love to see a "Doom Builder" style editor for Eduke.

Oh please this yes!

[Micky C]

High Treason, on 05 November 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Anyway, you could always build stuff in LEBuild and copy/paste it into Mapster later, I even did this without TROR in one of my maps.

Yeah, that's how I built the TROR dome I showed a while ago. It's still a pain to have to copy these constructions across, I mean what if you go through all the effort only to find you need to redo the construction for some reason? It gets tedious..

Commando Nukem, on 05 November 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

Yes, but i'm talking about something built into the editor and ready-to-go on installation.

I think we should be grateful that mapster32 is as flexible as it is with all its scripts and things. It can be pretty powerful and do some pretty amazing things, like some of the projects Muesla or Zykov Eddy have worked on. The staircase in the his Staircase mod must have been built in no time at all, and as others have said there's lots of useful stuff included with eduke32 that's ready to go.