[The Commander]

s.b.Newsom, on 20 February 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

EA use to be good, then turned to shit, then turned back to good.

Ugh, since when did it "turn back to good"?

[Jimmy]

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

It's possible I will change views if they really make a change, but right now what makes Gearbox any different than EA, or Epic Games, or the guys behind COD ? The sort of companies that create DLC before the game has even been released and just lock it on the disc, so users have to buy what's already there to use it. From what it appears, Gearbox are completely fine with themselves ripping off the fans it supposedly serves, and not to mention treating those fans like utter shit while it's at it. Of course say something truthful that they don't like on their forum and receive a ban. This thread alone sets the douchebag level pretty high for Gearbox,

If they cared about the fans they supposedly want to make happy then they wouldn't have cancelled this project to begin with, so while I still give kudos for those who feel they can justify Gearbox for their pathetic ways, I shall stick with my view. Those who stand with Gearbox are free to continue emptying their wallets and supporting them. I just won't, purely because of the people behind the company. Anyway even if they did create a future game which was actually Duke, and was actually good, it likely won't change my feelings or personal boycott against them because of their past, including the way they've obviously treated users over the whole Duke Reloaded project.

I'm calling bullshit here. Interceptor cancelled the game, not Gearbox.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'm calling bullshit here. Interceptor cancelled the game, not Gearbox.

All Gearbox cared about was the money involved with releasing DNF when they bought it over, and whether they are directly 100% responsible for fucking up this fan project or not, they don't actually give a shit about the fans and DNF was enough to show that. They were't forced to release it in the state it was but they did, because of money reasons, and that's all they care about. They didn't give a shit that it looked like a game from 2001 which could run on a PS2, or all the other issues it had, they just cared about letting the hype reap the profits in. Getting rid of the modding community is clearly going to be a motive for them , considering it means they can stop users enjoying free content and force everyone to pay $20 a piece for another shitty DLC. So how are gearbox saints when it comes to destroying this project? Doesn't look like they did fuck all to defend it.

Considering Gearbox have also been banning users for simply writing the truth, we move on to another pathetic story.. They are childish at the least.

You can speak with your wallet if you defend and support Gearbox , but they are just another pigish company in all fairness and it doesn't take an intelligent discussion to see that. Of course they will continue being pigish for as long as the fans they treat like shit support them,

Hell for anyone that doesn't like reading this , give me some bad rep, and while you're at it, switch over to the Gearbox forums and go buy another $20 ripoff DLC from them. anyway I don't really understand why any fan of the Duke community WOULD have respect for gearbox and their counterparts , what's the deal with supporting these asshole companies? Makes me miss 3D realms.

[Jimmy]

I don't play modern games, so I really don't give two shits about supporting Gearbox or not. The only games of their's I have ever bought were Opposing Force and Blue Shift. And of course they cared about the money on DNF. They made a huge investment on it.

The point is that Fresch was a shitty leader and Interceptor produced lackluster results, all the while attempting to bully Gearbox into just handing the IP over to them. It's not gonna happen. Interceptor fucked up, and the blame doesn't lie on Gearbox because any other company would have done the same if they had given them the time of day at all. 3DR wouldn't allow a project like this ever.

It's like you have a little kid, and his parents tell him to eat his spaghetti first and then he can have his ice cream, but instead the kid decides he can do whatever he wants. So he proceeds to take the ice cream out of the freezer and eat it, and the parent takes the ice cream and the spaghetti away, leaving him with neither and sends him to his room. You don't blame the parents for giving the kid some ground rules, you blame the kid for being a brat who couldn't wait.

And again, to reiterate, Gearbox's forums are part of their corporate image. Do you really expect them to let hundreds of dumbass shit-talking noobs dominate the place? I don't think so!

[Rebecca]

Yes they did make a huge investment on DNF, by feeding of the hype. But they where giving a middle finger by releasing it knowing it was gonna be shit. Case and point.

And if they cared about their "corporate image" they wouldn't have released the worst Duke Title in history and made a mockery of the name and fans that had actually expected something that was actually DUKE.

With all Due respect Wolfe, You can't put Gearbox on a pedestal even if you spent your life trying, so it's not really worth trying.

[Jimmy]

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yes they did make a huge investment on DNF, by feeding of the hype. But they where giving a middle finger by releasing it knowing it was gonna be shit. Case and point.

And if they cared about their "corporate image" they wouldn't have released the worst Duke Title in history and made a mockery of the name and fans that had actually expected something that was actually DUKE.

With all Due respect Wolfe, You can't put Gearbox on a pedestal even if you spent your life trying, so it's not really worth trying.

Big deal. By modern standards, it's a decent enough game. Besides that, Gearbox had minimal involvement with the development, it was all Tryptich who decided that the game looked good enough, and if you come back with "HUR DUR GEARBOX FORCED THEM TO HURRY UP AND RELEASE IT." I would go ahead and say that blame lies on Take2, who lets not forget forced 3DR practically into bankruptcy because they wanted the game released.

Also, there is no 'pedestal'. I believe in giving blame where blame is due, and Gearbox's blame is minimal. They're a shitty company, sure, but they're small time shit in this debacle. I could give a fuck less if it was Gearbox or id Software in this case.

[Rebecca]

By MODERN STANDARDS!? The game could run on a freaking PS2... Doom 3 had better graphics for crying out loud, and the unfunny humor and rather boring and stupid "babe" stereotypes was past its sell-by-date years ago. By modern standards I think the game is pretty bad, and if it had came out how it was now in 2001, I would still be tempted to say the same. They could have made a stand and worked on the game to solve the issues and problems within, instead of giving into so called "bullying". What it is, fucking primary school? I guess it's another example of the Gearbox team that can't grow up lol.

[Jimmy]

Once again, Gearbox had minimal involvement with development. It was all Tryptich. This is pretty much the game 3DR would have delivered. And in that vein, I say its good by modern standards because most modern FPSes I've played are boring and filled with stupid humor.

[Rebecca]

I don't believe this changes any of the companies in question being asshole companies that rip off users and care about money while treating the people that buy their stuff like shit,

[Jimmy]

And? Can you blame them? Why would they ever strive to do anything more when people still buy into it willingly? You're only fooling yourself if you expected anything more.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

And? Can you blame them? Why would they ever strive to do anything more when people still buy into it willingly? You're only fooling yourself if you expected anything more.

Of course I never expected more, because it will always be the people that think like that which allow the companies to do it. What I've found quite amusing however, is how hard you've been trying to defend Gearbox and these other miscellaneous companies since we got into this conversation.

You seem extremely upset and utterly torn for somebody that these companies don't give two damns about.

[Jimmy]

You really are clueless if you think I'm defending them. Everything to do with Duke Nukem: Reloaded falls on Interceptor's incompetence. Everything to do with Duke Nukem Forever falls on 3DR and Tryptich's incompetence. In fact, I'd say Gearbox was the only competent one in the mix, and benefited from all of it, even with all associated negativity. Are they right for doing so? Not really. Do I appreciate it? Not really. Does anyone ever bring up? Not really. Do people blame Gearbox for things they should be blaming other people for? Most definitely.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

You really are clueless if you think I'm defending them. Everything to do with Duke Nukem: Reloaded falls on Interceptor's incompetence. Everything to do with Duke Nukem Forever falls on 3DR and Tryptich's incompetence. In fact, I'd say Gearbox was the only competent one in the mix, and benefited from all of it, even with all associated negativity. Are they right for doing so? Not really. Do I appreciate it? Not really. Does anyone ever bring up? Not really. Do people blame Gearbox for things they should be blaming other people for? Most definitely.

Implying the majority of blame is going to be focused elsewhere when Gearbox made sure to slap their Name as clear as can be all over DNF?

They are to blame just as equally as the other asshole companies behind the failure that was DNF, and ultimately, behind the fucking up of this Duke Reloaded fan project. It doesn't matter who's fault it is more, the end result is that all these pigish companies led to this. Unfortunately all you've done now is spent a few hours of your time trying to prove something that hasn't really held together at all. GG.

[ReaperMan]

@ Rebecca:
Do you even realize how many failures Fresch has? He has failed like 4 time and learned nothing. Really its no wonder GBX dropped the project. Now I'm not saying that GBX dosen't deserve part of the blame as they should of just said no to the project in the first place and none of this would of happened. However, saying that GBX did it to boost sales or make the community happy for a while to boost DNF sales is just jumping to conclusions. So both Fresch, and GBX suck.

[Jimmy]

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Implying the majority of blame is going to be focused elsewhere when Gearbox made sure to slap their Name as clear as can be all over DNF?

They are to blame just as equally as the other asshole companies behind the failure that was DNF, and ultimately, behind the fucking up of this Duke Reloaded fan project. It doesn't matter who's fault it is more, the end result is that all these pigish companies led to this. Unfortunately all you've done now is spent a few hours of your time trying to prove something that hasn't really held together at all. GG.

All I'm reading is fanboyisms. You're obviously coming at this with emotion. Gearbox didn't fuck up anything with Duke Nukem Reloaded. They told the team they could work on it, but to wait for DNF's marketing cycle to finish. Which is ample. They COULD NOT restrain themselves from ejaculating their shitty stuff everywhere, after being told multiple times that they should quiet down. Fresch was a drama queen who just wanted the attention. The project was like 5% done max, and they were running a hype campaign of something that would get released in two weeks. I applaud Gearbox for smacking them down time and time again, because I've seen projects come and go for years on end, and anyone who champions their product in the beginning stages probably won't even get close to completion.

And in the case of DNF, they were practically just publishers. I don't hear you saying that the people who actually made the game suck for making the game suck, just some people who fronted money on it.

I've been in the community for ~10 years, and I've seen everything come and go from DukeWorld to today. You have no valuable reference point, because you just got here a few weeks ago max.

[Rebecca]

ReaperMan, on 20 February 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

@ Rebecca:
Do you even realize how many failures Fresch has? He has failed like 4 time and learned nothing. Really its no wonder GBX dropped the project. Now I'm not saying that GBX dosen't deserve part of the blame as they should of just said no to the project in the first place and none of this would of happened. However, saying that GBX did it to boost sales or make the community happy for a while to boost DNF sales is just jumping to conclusions. So both Fresch, and GBX suck.

I have equal blame for all the assholes behind the destruction of DNF and of course, ultimately, the destruction of this fan project too. Gearbox aren't the lesser of the evils, as Wolfe is clearly trying to suggest throughout this recent discussion, but are as equal as all the other guys behind the end of what could have been a great game, and more importantly , again, to the subject, the end of a what could have been a great user project.

[Jimmy]

Equal blame is illogical. This comes back to the whole point of blaming the parents for setting ground rules. Gearbox may have came in on a vulture's practice, but they ultimately have minimal to do with the suckage of DNF or yet another failure of Fresch. Come back to me when Gearbox actually develops a crappy Duke game.

[ReaperMan]

Let me sum up what Wolfe is really saying...

Gearbox: Smart evil
3DR: Incompetent
Fresch: Stupid incompetent evil.
Interceptor team:used (like a tampon, or condom)

[Rebecca]

ReaperMan, on 20 February 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Let me sum up what Wolfe is really saying...

Gearbox: Smart evil
3DR: Incompetent
Fresch: Stupid incompetent evil.
Interceptor team:used (like a tampon, or condom)
Wolfe: A Musty Stench found around the Duke4.net forums, usually defending Gearbox

Fixed!

[Jimmy]

You are not as smart of a poster as I thought you might be. I bet you came in from Gearbox's forums. How am I defending Gearbox? Elaborate.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

You are not as smart of a poster as I thought you might be. I bet you came in from Gearbox's forums. How am I defending Gearbox? Elaborate.

Lol coming from the poster that thinks his join date on the forum implies knowledge and has become enraged enough to use the rep system against me (Oh noes), which apparently means something around here.

[Jimmy]

Poorly thought out argumentum ad hominem. I can see that you are highly illogical and not one for legitimate discourse.

[Mad Max RW]

You lost me when you said they were "bullying Gearbox". That literally made me laugh out loud.

[Jimmy]

Maybe the wrong choice of words if you will, but there was an agreement that they would keep things on the downlow, and they just could not do it.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Poorly thought out argumentum ad hominem. I can see that you are highly illogical and not one for legitimate discourse.

I had won the argument before this had even began, seeing as you jumped at the chance to defend something which did share blame with the point in question. You've jumped on the band wagon of "Gearbox isn't to blame" several times and eventually resorted to claiming that your join date on the forum meant you where correct in the face of something that obviously wasn't.

Am I meant to believe there was ever an intelligent argument on your behalf?

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Maybe the wrong choice of words if you will, but there was an agreement that they would keep things on the downlow, and they just could not do it.

What you mean here is you've now stopped raging at the fact I was right, and started to begin the journey of realizing most of the things you said where downright wrong. Case and point.

[ReaperMan]

[Mad Max RW]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Maybe the wrong choice of words if you will, but there was an agreement that they would keep things on the downlow, and they just could not do it.

All things considering, they did a better job at keeping it under lock and key compared to similar projects. After being repeatedly told by Gearbox to wait until after DNF was out, then wait until after the DLC, to wait 2 weeks, wait 2 weeks, another 2 weeks, I'm a little surprised an alpha version wasn't leaked.

[Jimmy]

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I had won the argument before this had even began, seeing as you jumped at the chance to defend something which did share blame with the point in question. You've jumped on the band wagon of "Gearbox isn't to blame" several times and eventually resorted to claiming that your join date on the forum meant you where correct in the face of something that obviously wasn't.

Am I meant to believe there was ever an intelligent argument on your behalf?

What you mean here is you've now stopped raging at the fact I was right, and started to begin the journey of realizing most of the things you said where downright wrong. Case and point.

That's utter nonsense. I've given Gearbox their fair amount of the blame. Tryptich has said many times that this is the game they were always going to release. Gearbox's involvement is inconsequential, it could have been anyone else. Also, I never implied that my join date meant I was correct. What I said is that I've seen everything from long ago, and I saw the beginning of the current DNF development as well as Duke Nukem Reloaded. I saw all of it as it developed, forum posts, everything. You have no reference point. You're like a child wandering into the middle of a movie.

And I didn't realize anything was 'wrong.' My post still stands to the reasoning of what I was saying. You cannot bring up one legitimate argument that proves me wrong, all you have is personal attacks, assumptions, and insisting you are correct.

Mad Max RW, on 20 February 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

All things considering, they did a better job at keeping it under lock and key compared to similar projects. After being repeatedly told by Gearbox to wait until after DNF was out, then wait until after the DLC, to wait 2 weeks, wait 2 weeks, another 2 weeks, I'm a little surprised an alpha version wasn't leaked.

I'd tend to agree with you, but still the point is that they should have known better.

[Mad Max RW]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Tryptich has said many times that this is the game they were always going to release.

Do you think they truly believe that? It was several years before Warren Spector and Harvey Smith publicly admitted how much of a piece of shit Invisible War turned out. The people at Tryptich were at best happy to be done and move on with their lives. I'm betting in the years to come we will hear the full truth and it won't be so pretty.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

That's utter nonsense. I've given Gearbox their fair amount of the blame. Tryptich has said many times that this is the game they were always going to release. Gearbox's involvement is inconsequential, it could have been anyone else. Also, I never implied that my join date meant I was correct. What I said is that I've seen everything from long ago, and I saw the beginning of the current DNF development as well as Duke Nukem Reloaded. I saw all of it as it developed, forum posts, everything. You have no reference point. You're like a child wandering into the middle of a movie.

Except what you're doing is now implying one has to have been around in the Duke Community since it began to have any clue as to what has gone on. What I wrote from the start was that Gearbox had blame in DNF, and on the side of that, the destruction of this Fan project (Which is what the topic is about, if you check). You then went into hyper drive and began ranting and raving on how Gearbox had no blame, and unless you've gone back and edited posts now, we both know this was true at the time. Completely missing the entire point of what I was saying from the start, I tried engaging with you, but you just didn't get it.

Am I going to try and get off on the rather foolish "A poor choice of words, if you will" Excuse like you just tried pulling off? No of course not, lol. I never stated in the original post that the other companies , and even the main guy behind the project, weren't to blame as well as gearbox, I simply expressed my main hatred towards Gearbox for the recent ways they have been acting and for the trainwreck of a game they released (DNF).

Did I miss something now or are you still raging?