[Micky C]

What a lot of people are saying is that both DNF and Serious Sam are very different from Duke 3D, but all things considered, SS is slighter closer. The only thing that really makes DNF a Duke game is that it's got Duke in it.

[Kathy]

s.b.Newsom said:

Doom and Duke Nukem have similiar gameplay but we don't see all that much comparison since doom really has no cosmetic or character comparisons to Duke.

Because they are irrelevant. We now have every fps game featuring bad mouthed badass labeled as Duke Nukem sibling.

[thatguy]

Ripemanewone, on 25 February 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

I really don't get how you can't see the main obvious differances, at a quick glance the games may seem from a similar nest but they are not, not at all. It has all been laid out in the previous posts, either I'm delusional and enter a parallel universe when I play Duke 3D and am finding massive gameplay differances and game changers or some people just can't see it, the former I find hard to believe. People keep pointing out the superficial similaritys for some reason, superficial actually has a meaning, its not just a word I created. Also "musclular protagonist" means nothing in gameplay terms, why not add that they are all men and have hair? Also "awesome music" is subjective.

Wow, what is with this statement? I never said they are exactly the same. No one is saying they are the same. Of course there is obvious differences, I never said there weren't. It sounds like you are ignoring the obvious similarities. Saying they are similar is no different than say 'if you like star wars, check out star trek'. They are similar but also different.

What people are saying, is that DNF should of adapted its basics to Duke 3d like SS3 kept its basics spawned by SS1.

[Ronin]

s.b.Newsom, on 25 February 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Wow, what is with this statement? I never said they are exactly the same. No one is saying they are the same. Of course there is obvious differences, I never said there weren't. It sounds like you are ignoring the obvious similarities. Saying they are similar is no different than say 'if you like star wars, check out star trek'. They are similar but also different.

What people are saying, is that DNF should of adapted its basics to Duke 3d like SS3 kept its basics spawned by SS1.

The sun and the moon are a similar shape and are both in our solar system but both work completely differantly. Cats and dogs are both pets, hairy and have four legs, they also both eat meat and mate when they can. The bottom line is that people compare the games because of the meathead persona of both characters same with Bulletstorm.

"What people are saying, is that DNF should of adapted its basics to Duke 3d like SS3 kept its basics spawned by SS1" The only one who said that is Micky C and correct as that is its not what most people see.

I have offended you, that was not my purpose but still I'd rather someone engage me than give a few sneaky downvotes and run off.

[ThePinkus]

I've already explained why people would compare Sam to Duke. Its mostly the main character. Duke 3D had basically the first talking badass game character you got to play as who would spout one liners. When the first Serious Sam came out, the character was almost the same person, except he wasn't blonde. The games may not have played the same at all, but the main character is enough of a comparison.
When Bulletstorm came out, people would do nothing but compare it to Duke Nukem, even though the only similarities were the one liners and using a boot to kick enemies. Otherwise, the gameplay was yet again, completely different. But everyone was looking forward to DNF to finally come out so thats all the comparison was was that they are similar.
Then DNF came out, and it was panned by damn near everyone. At this point I think everyone basically forgot about Bulletstorm and were looking forward to Serious Sam 3, since it was another old school type game. It came out, and people loved it, and it was the type of game everyone wanted DNF to be: An oldschool shooter that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel and the only real strategy you need to learn and master is circle strafing. No drawn out segments where you aren't fighting anything. No long boring turret sequences. No stupid driving sequences (although I have yet to play SS3 myself, i'm pretty sure there aren't any vehicle sequences. And if there are, they aren't horrible enough for anyone to mention them). Its just old school arcadey fun. Which is what Duke should've been, a sort of callback to oldschool games. I don't think people are saying the exact gameplay itself should've been how DNF was; instead, they wanted what the game as a whole represented.
Oh, also forgot to mention: shitty minigames like Pool or Pinball.

[Micky C]

Actually there are a few sections in SS3 where you're running through an underground passage, which is the game's attempt to break up the action. Sometimes there are some enemies there, and some of them are these damn annoying very un-serious sam space monkey things which actively try to hide from you behind columns so that you can't shoot them, and then jump at you when you're standing still. I'm pretty sure everyone doesn't even try to kill them and instead run past them, because they're so annoying to kill (and it takes ages to kill all of them). So most of the time you're just sprinting. They don't last very long though.

And if you haven't played SS3 yet (I'm assuming you don't own it) I suggest you buy it immediately while it's super cheap, the sale ends today.

[thatguy]

Micky C, on 26 February 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Actually there are a few sections in SS3 where you're running through an underground passage, which is the game's attempt to break up the action. Sometimes there are some enemies there, and some of them are these damn annoying very un-serious sam space monkey things which actively try to hide from you behind columns so that you can't shoot them, and then jump at you when you're standing still. I'm pretty sure everyone doesn't even try to kill them and instead run past them, because they're so annoying to kill (and it takes ages to kill all of them). So most of the time you're just sprinting. They don't last very long though.

And if you haven't played SS3 yet (I'm assuming you don't own it) I suggest you buy it immediately while it's super cheap, the sale ends today.

To be honest, I wanted to come to this thread stating I just bought SS3 because its on sale this weekend....sadly I find myself fighting a person who things everyone is saying Duke and SS are the same thing which I haven't read at all throughout this thread.

[Kathy]

ThePinkus, on 25 February 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

It came out, and people loved it, and it was the type of game everyone wanted DNF to be: An oldschool shooter that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel and the only real strategy you need to learn and master is circle strafing.

Have you played Duke Nukem 3d? If anything, DN was innovational.

Quote

Its just old school arcadey fun. Which is what Duke should've been, a sort of callback to oldschool games.

No, it shouldn't have. It should have had complex levels, lots of interactivity, lots of weapons, mod tools. Then it would have been similar to DN3d.

Quote

I don't think people are saying the exact gameplay itself should've been how DNF was; instead, they wanted what the game as a whole represented.Oh, also forgot to mention: shitty minigames like Pool or Pinball.

Realisation was shitty, not the minigames.

[Sangman]

Why do people think Duke3D was an arcade-y throwback to old school shooters when it came out? For that time it was very fresh, unique and innovative.

[rasmus thorup]

Because it's old now.

[thatguy]

If anything Duke 3d should be the inspiration on how to do a retro fps right.

[MusicallyInspired]

Ripemanewone, on 25 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

"What people are saying, is that DNF should of adapted its basics to Duke 3d like SS3 kept its basics spawned by SS1" The only one who said that is Micky C and correct as that is its not what most people see.

No, but that's what everybody means. Most people anyway. You've got to be mentally challenged to consider SS as anything that would work in a Duke game if you've had even the smallest exposure to either game. It's just that the ratio between DNF and Duke3D is very different from the ratio between SS1 and SS3. People just don't know how to express themselves, and still other people, it seems, can't seem to extrapolate properly what people mean and assume people are morons instead.

[ThePinkus]

Helel, on 26 February 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

Have you played Duke Nukem 3d? If anything, DN was innovational.

Was referring to Serious Sam with what you quoted, not Duke3D

[Kathy]

ThePinkus, on 26 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Was referring to Serious Sam with what you quoted, not Duke3D

Then why are you saying that DNF should have been a "an oldschool shooter that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel and the only real strategy you need to learn and master is circle strafing" when DN3d wasn't like that?

MusicallyInspired said:

No, but that's what everybody means. Most people anyway. You've got to be mentally challenged to consider SS as anything that would work in a Duke game if you've had even the smallest exposure to either game.

Fair enough, but where did comparison to Bulletstorm come from then?

[Ronin]

MusicallyInspired, on 26 February 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

No, but that's what everybody means. Most people anyway. You've got to be mentally challenged to consider SS as anything that would work in a Duke game if you've had even the smallest exposure to either game. It's just that the ratio between DNF and Duke3D is very different from the ratio between SS1 and SS3. People just don't know how to express themselves, and still other people, it seems, can't seem to extrapolate properly what people mean and assume people are morons instead.

No, I don't buy that, not everyone knows Duke Nukem 3D as well as you. People often compare Bulletstorm to Duke Nukem as well in same way as Serious Sam and there was no earlier Bulletstorm. Also I'm sure you are aware that people have been comparing Duke Nukem 3D to Serious Sam since the first one, so its not just as SS 3 thing. I can extrapolate fine but I'm not going to read something and then assume they mean something completely differant. People say stuff like Duke Nukem 3D is arcadey and stuff like that just lends me to think they don't fully understand what they are saying.

Only now are people pulling the "the ratio between DNF and Duke3D is very different from the ratio between SS1 and SS3" out and thats fine I'm not disputing that, but the simple point I make is that people have been comparing Duke Nukem 3D to SS games for years now and I don't think that they should, thats all. I don't assume people are morons either, being incorrect about something does not make you a moron, simply that you have a small piece of information incorrect nothing more.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

If anything, Duke Nukem 3D is best compared to DooM. Those two games seem to be more alike than Duke Nukem to Serious Sam.

(I wonder why.)

[ThePinkus]

Helel, on 26 February 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Then why are you saying that DNF should have been a "an oldschool shooter that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel and the only real strategy you need to learn and master is circle strafing" when DN3d wasn't like that?

Because DNF would've been a way better game that way.

[Kathy]

ThePinkus, on 26 February 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Because DNF would've been a way better game that way.

Would Duke Nukem 3d also be a better game if it was similar to SS?

[MusicallyInspired]

Ripemanewone, on 26 February 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

No, I don't buy that, not everyone knows Duke Nukem 3D as well as you. People often compare Bulletstorm to Duke Nukem as well in same way as Serious Sam and there was no earlier Bulletstorm. Also I'm sure you are aware that people have been comparing Duke Nukem 3D to Serious Sam since the first one, so its not just as SS 3 thing. I can extrapolate fine but I'm not going to read something and then assume they mean something completely differant. People say stuff like Duke Nukem 3D is arcadey and stuff like that just lends me to think they don't fully understand what they are saying.

I'm talking about people on these forums. I think they all know Duke3D pretty darn well. I don't care what people elsewhere say. We're talking about it here so we're all that matters. Why are we bringing up people who aren't even here talking about it in this conversation?

Quote

Only now are people pulling the "the ratio between DNF and Duke3D is very different from the ratio between SS1 and SS3" out and thats fine I'm not disputing that, but the simple point I make is that people have been comparing Duke Nukem 3D to SS games for years now and I don't think that they should, thats all. I don't assume people are morons either, being incorrect about something does not make you a moron, simply that you have a small piece of information incorrect nothing more.

People say that Serious Sam and Duke3D are similar because they're both old-school arcade alien shooters with a main character who spews funny one-liners and parodies other games/movies. That's all. Which is true. The gameplay, locale, and art styles are different sure. Nobody's saying they are the exact same thing.

[thatguy]

MusicallyInspired, on 26 February 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

People say that Serious Sam and Duke3D are similar because they're both old-school arcade alien shooters with a main character who spews funny one-liners and parodies other games/movies. That's all. Which is true. The gameplay, locale, and art styles are different sure. Nobody's saying they are the exact same thing.

This is being said so much and yet he still finds a way to disagree. Its comparing the movie Moon to 2001 Space Oddyssey and saying they are similiar in theme and space aesthetics and he comes in saying they are nothing like each other even though we aren't saying they are the same.

[MusicallyInspired]

Which is why I brought up the 'moron' thing.

[Mikko]

The key card discussion on the previous page seems rather hilarious, as if key cards made Duke3D somehow better or as if key cards should have any kind of a central role (in gameplay terms) in modern games. They've been so out of fashion since Quake 2 and for a good reason. At least the go-fetch-some-gas "puzzles" in DNF made sense. There were also many good and fitting environmental puzzles in DNF that Duke3D of course didn't have. These issues are of course a mere sideshow of the modernity vs. tradition debate. Call Modern Warfare bad names if you want but the idea of a soldier backtracking in order to find key cards and health kits while there's a war raging is fucking stupid. And for the love of god don't take this as an endorsement of DNF over Duke3D. It's just that everyone's IQs seem to drop the minute nostalgia comes into play.

[Ronin]

s.b.Newsom, on 26 February 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

This is being said so much and yet he still finds a way to disagree. Its comparing the movie Moon to 2001 Space Oddyssey and saying they are similiar in theme and space aesthetics and he comes in saying they are nothing like each other even though we aren't saying they are the same.

MusicallyInspired, on 26 February 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Which is why I brought up the 'moron' thing.

Neither of you guys get what I'm saying and frankly I'm bored with repeating myself, you both should know if you bothered reading my previous posts that I am aware of the superficial connection that Duke Nukem, Serious Sam and whatshisface from Bulletstorm have all I have been saying is that I don't think those superficial connections warrant people anywhere (the world exists outside this forum you know) comparing the 3 games, as at their core they are far too differant. I really can't put it simpler than that, so disagree if you like it won't change how I feel on the subject. And please leave it out with the strawman stuff it only shows that you guys are ignoring my previous posts.

[MusicallyInspired]

Well, luckily you're not in charge of dictating what people think.

[Ronin]

MusicallyInspired, on 26 February 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Well, luckily you're not in charge of dictating what people think.

Yes my friend, I would also have edited the rest of that post out too.

[MusicallyInspired]

I don't really care that you or anyone else saw it, if you're trying to catch me at something. I just didn't feeling like drawing the issue out anymore as nothing will get through to you anyway and I'm tired.

[ReaperMan]

What did he say? I want to know.

[Micky C]

When 3D Realms realized that DNF wasn't going to be the revolutionary game they wanted it to be, they should have resorted to doing what they do best, that is, make games with gameplay elements that they know are successful because they worked in Duke 3D, rather than trying to copy everything else that's out there. If it comes down to it, I wouldn't have minded if DNF did end up being like a lot of other games out there if it actually copied those gameplay element well. But they should have realized that if you don't do anything for a long time, you forget how to do it (in a lot of cases), especially if what you're doing is going to change and grow after you stop doing it, and they should never have attempted to make a simply modern (not old school, not revolutionary) game when the last first person shooter they developed in house was over 10 years ago.

[Ronin]

Micky C, on 26 February 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

When 3D Realms realized that DNF wasn't going to be the revolutionary game they wanted it to be

They resorted to tits and dick jokes.

[Lunick]

Can we just enjoy the game, please?