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Former 3DR developers speak out against DNF

User is offline   Tetsuo 

#91

One thing to remember though in Duke3D there was actually an abortion clinic setpiece with alien embryos in jars.. so not all the babes that where infected in that game died. I could just see the controversy it would cause though if DNF had a "take the babe to the abortion clinic" game mechanic though rather than a "sonic unscrewdriver" for detecting and removing the infection from the babes. Or maybe they can make a game mechanic where they do a parody of "The Fly" and he puts babes into a teleporter pod that extracts the alien DNA and dumps it into another teleporter pod creating a hideous alien beast which he then has to fight ;) :) It could even be an ironic thing where he was putting the babes into the teleporter pods which seemed to work but he didn't know it was creating a beast (or many) elsewhere until it he got near the room where the output is and it comes crashing through the wall and confronts him. ;)

This post has been edited by Tetsuo: 12 August 2011 - 12:05 AM

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User is offline   Martin 

#92

Luther Blissett and thelegend4ever - you both sound like pathetic children bickering over nothing. So what if the other person has a differing opinion on a video game? Does that call for insults to be slung around? The way you two carry on comes off as some kind of deep-seated hatred, as if the other person defiled your children with a hammer and blowtorch, after pulling all their teeth and putting stinging nettles in their mouths. The fact that you're just talking about a computer game.. yeah. Please stop. I feel embarrassed for the pair of you.

View PostTetsuo, on 11 August 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

Or maybe they can make a game mechanic where they do a parody of "The Fly" and he puts babes into a teleporter pod that extracts the alien DNA and dumps it into another teleporter pod creating a hideous alien beast which he then has to fight ;) :) It could even be an ironic thing where he was putting the babes into the teleporter pods which seemed to work but he didn't know it was creating a beast (or many) elsewhere until it he got near the room where the output is and it comes crashing through the wall and confronts him. ;)


Actually, that's a pretty awesome idea! Seth Brundle and Duke Nukem even both have museums dedicated to them in their own respective universes. Only Brundle's resides entirely in his bathroom cabinet, filled with torn off fingernails, teeth, and other wonderful 'artefacts'. Yummy.

This post has been edited by Martin: 12 August 2011 - 05:06 AM

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#93

View PostMartin, on 12 August 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

Luther Blissett and thelegend4ever - you both sound like pathetic children bickering over nothing. So what if the other person has a differing opinion on a video game? Does that call for insults to be slung around? The way you two carry on comes off as some kind of deep-seated hatred, as if the other person defiled your children with a hammer and blowtorch, after pulling all their teeth and putting stinging nettles in their mouths. The fact that you're just talking about a computer game.. yeah. Please stop. I feel embarrassed for the pair of you.

The hell? I simply gave my opinion...and then the dude started being a smartass and dissed Commando Nukem and I for having for having a different view than his. Did you even notice that and read his posts? Besides, all I ever did was call him a jackass...and I'm sure most others agree with that statement. But ya know it's cool. I hold no online grudges. I come here to discuss Duke Nukem and give my opnions...not try to get into e-fights.
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#94

I think I would have enjoyed a darker rendition of Duke, if that's what the 2003 version was really like. The screens do look Doom 3-ish.
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User is offline   Tetsuo 

#95

View PostMartin, on 12 August 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

Actually, that's a pretty awesome idea! Seth Brundle and Duke Nukem even both have museums dedicated to them in their own respective universes. Only Brundle's resides entirely in his bathroom cabinet, filled with torn off fingernails, teeth, and other wonderful 'artefacts'. Yummy.


Thanks, I think it's an interesting thing to have the hero unintentionally creating his own adversary. Also I imagine it could be implemented as a cross between capture the babe (the sling the babe over the shoulder stuff to take them to the pod) bioshock's healing the little sister mechanic (for the DNA extraction process) and then of course spawning the hideous beasts into the output room which could then be introduced flood style which could also act as a sort of Halo parody. :) Incidently I have the BrundleFly action figure on my shelf.
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#96

Although I wish I could talk to George Broussard myself, so that I could better understand his point of view of the game's history, I have to agree with the developers on the current state of DNF. I find it really peculiar that Gearbox wrote a terrible story to tie up the game, when I thought that a screenwriter back in 2000 already wrote a good story for it. I wishfully think that it was possible for 3D Realms to write the story better than Gearbox did, if they had the time. 3D Realms might have been able to improve the graphics their own way, but again, it's wishful thinking. It just seems so strange that they didn't hire writers who really understood the Duke Nukem games. For example, the President in the game accuses Duke of screwing things up between aliens and humans the last time. Obviously, he forgot Duke was kidnapped by the Rigelatins before the Cycloids even came, and that the Cycloids pretty much decimated Earth's human populations, while, of course, keeping most of the women alive for entertainment, sex, and Cycloid infestation and procreation. Anyway, isn't Duke residing in futuristic America? That is, in the Cloud City/Jetson era future where Dr. Proton escaped to after Duke blasted him in 1990s Los Angeles and his secret base on the Moon? DUKE NUKEM 2 did indicated that the second game started off in Neo L.A., which I assume may be the future which Duke beat Proton? Well, as the DN games progressed, much of the backstory was forgotten, I guess.

Still, maybe if they did have a better writer, it would have improved. I actually wished Gearbox tried to engineer and design newer bosses, besides recreations of the bosses from DN 3D and THE PLUTONIUM PAK. However I wish DNF '98 and DNF '00 were released, I prefer the 2007 teaser trailer's depiction of what DNF might have been like. It's brief, I know, and with added effects that were not from the engine, but I still like the lighting used in the game. When the Alien Trooper attacks Duke in that easer, it almost looked like it was happening in an open city area. I would've preferred that the illusion of a huge free-roaming nonlinear world had been kept. I would've also preferred that the illsusion of the latest DNF would be a bigger and badder version of the game we expected back in '98, with all the best touches from HALF-LIFE and UNREAL.

I don't really think of the DNF of 2011 is the DNF that 3D Realms had in mind; just a compromise game based off the latest build of DNF they managed to finish.
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#97

Why is the title of this topic blown out of proportion?
It says that former developers speak out against DNF, yet the first post contradicts the title of the thread and shows that just one developer criticized some aspects of the game.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 22 August 2011 - 11:16 PM

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User is offline   Tetsuo 

#98

@Flying Techbot: Forget illusion it would have been better if it was an actual open world free roaming game where you can go to many places as you want in Las Vegas before going on a road trip to hoover dam. That seemed to have been what they where promising for some time especially early last decade.

Instead things like Titty City where turned into for example a dream sequence rather than a place you could walk up to and possibly revisit as you'd like. Having some real good hub world maps for starters would have helped give the illusion of a less linear game much like it did with Borderlands. On the other hand I guess Gearbox didn't want them to spend that much more time on the game and just wanted to get it out. That's stuff that should be in Duke5 though when they get around to making it. That way it could be the game that lives up to the legacy of Duke3D everyone had been waiting for.

Also part of the bad writing probably also had to do with the mismanagement of the game and the pieced together nature of the final product more than anything... as well as the cutting... no.. butchering of much of the game.

This post has been edited by Tetsuo: 22 August 2011 - 07:12 AM

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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#99

Titty City was always going to be a dream sequence. That was 3D Realms original intent, but it lost a lot of the plot context when Gearbox took over. Originally Duke was to witness Bombshell as the lead dancer in the club.

But they didn't do that. So we get a random dream sequence that is very GNDN, and we get that fuckhead Dylan in place of a couple of Bombshell's scenes.

Horseshit-horseshit.
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User is offline   Martin 

#100

Gonna repost the article since only two or three people seemed to have read it, and it was apparently deemed too negative for the front page.

Spoiler


Thoughts?
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#101

View PostDerickVonD, on 10 August 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

I thought the humor was good, but everything else sucked. Story was too simple, gameplay wasn't that fun, levels weren't as good as Duke 3D, the music sucked, the weapons were generic, the multiplayer felt very downgraded and the multiplayer levels sucked really bad.


Story? Really? Its a Duke game! The only game where the story is just save the world "and the babes" from Aliens. THATS ALL THAT IT NEEDED! The weapon selection was fine to me. Haven't played much multiplayer yet but so far I liked it.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#102

Then they shouldn't have even bothered with the story. What was the point of bringing the president when Duke haven't even spoke to him? The whole "this time it\s personal" was only mentioned once and forgotten soon after.
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#103

View PostHelel, on 30 August 2011 - 12:44 AM, said:

Then they shouldn't have even bothered with the story. What was the point of bringing the president when Duke haven't even spoke to him? The whole "this time it\s personal" was only mentioned once and forgotten soon after.


They didn't, you can notice that.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#104

View PostTetsuo, on 11 August 2011 - 11:00 PM, said:

One thing I can kind of agree with is Duke could have shown more outrage over what was being done to his beloved babes. It was excusable in Duke3D because of the rudimentary nature of the sprites and the sound system\interaction and such but less so in DNF :( On the other hand Duke isn't an MD or scientist and I don't think he would be able to save them from their horrific fate unless they had a plot point where they gave him a special alien DNA detecting exctractor for removing what was implanted in them before it kills them. To have a button where you just "save them" is like waving a magic wand over the problem.


I agree completely. Every once in a while, someone asks me to add the save babes feature to my Duke 3D gameplay mods, and I resist for the reasons you gave.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#105

View Postthemaniacboy, on 30 August 2011 - 06:02 AM, said:

They didn't, you can notice that.


No, as he just pointed out. They did bother to drop in some story threads, and then they never bothered to wrap them up.

Even Duke3D, as primitive as it is sometimes, still managed to follow through on its little bit of story.
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#106

I liked this game. But it had too much humor in it.

I do like humor in Duke games, but they tried to hard. I wanted a more gritty and darker DNF.
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User is offline   Oook 

#107

I found the game funny. I didn't laugh, but I didn't in DN 3D. The hot twins put a smile on my face, their dialogues are really funny. About the midnight club well, I agree the idea of making a stop on the killing, there are many interactive things, a secret room with a funny video... I think it's funny, and not so long. This level itself is a parody about the called "FedEx quests" on RPG. As Duke says later: "that's the last time I play a role game", if I remember well.
About the game itself, well, I think it's a good game, Steam says I have played it for 37 hours, and that's good. I really enjoy the MP and the first missions of the campaign. Personally, I think the last levels at the dam are too hard and monotonous for being funny. I enjoyed the final.
Obviously, this is not the Duke Nukem we were expecting, but after all the troubles, it's finally here, and it's funny. I'm sure the next instalment will be a great sequel for DN 3D
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User is offline   jkas789 

#108

Gonna necro this to link the archived scan of the PLAY magazine (the 2011-09) issue. The relevant article starts on page 44.

Could not help but notice this comment from Ken:

Attached Image: Screenshot_6.jpg

Granted, this was from 2011 so...

This post has been edited by jkas789: 04 April 2021 - 02:35 AM

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#109

I thought Ken only designed the BUILD engine as a teenager and was never officially an employee. Did he really do any work at 3DR or on DNF? And if he was underage, how was he even legally working in studio? Shouldn't his parents still be responsible for feeding him? His quote doesn't seem to even remotely jive with what I've read elsewhere.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#110

View PostWilliam Beavis, on 04 April 2021 - 05:38 AM, said:

I thought Ken only designed the BUILD engine as a teenager and was never officially an employee. Did he really do any work at 3DR or on DNF? And if he was underage, how was he even legally working in studio? Shouldn't his parents still be responsible for feeding him? His quote doesn't seem to even remotely jive with what I've read elsewhere.


Yeah it doesn't quite line up with anything I've ever heard or read about Ken's relationship with 3D Realms.



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User is offline   Phredreeke 

#111

I believe Ken wasn't an employee but a contractor. Also he was 18 and had graduated high school by the time he started working for Apogee/3D Realms.

Also, what he said was he wasn't old enough to rent a car. I think most car rental agencies won't rent to you if you're under 21.
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#112

That's so bizarre that you can drive a car, own a car, and die for your country...but not rent a car. Still, if Ken wasn't satisfied with the accommodations, nothing was forcing him to stay. And George seeing a cool feature and commenting "cool" doesn't seem remotely out of line. Upon casually observing the work they were hired to do, I'm not sure what more would be expected? Not saying the working conditions were great, but his complaints sound rather trivial and melodramatic when he talks about starving. Also not sure how ideas can be "stolen" with everybody working for the same company unless there was some sort of bonus compensation he was being cheated out of. Does he mean that the Prey team would steal concepts from DNF or vice versa? Even so, who cares? Not even sure how it couldn't easily be proven where an idea originated if meaningless credit is so important to him, so his whole lamentation seems rather petty.
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User is offline   Balls of Steel Forever 

  • Balls of Steel Forever

#113

View PostWilliam Beavis, on 04 April 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

That's so bizarre that you can drive a car, own a car, and die for your country...but not rent a car.

military 18 active duty on orders you can rent cars, also usaa allows you to on vacay.
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