[Graywolf]

The only decent music in the game was the grabbag on the opening..

the loading music were nice too, but if we didn't get so many long loadimes (unnaceptable) I woudn't start getting bored of them.

[Martin]

Anyone got a scan of this article?

[rasmus thorup]

Graywolf, on 10 August 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

The only decent music in the game was the grabbag on the opening..

the loading music were nice too, but if we didn't get so many long loadimes (unnaceptable) I woudn't start getting bored of them.

Hehe. Haven't you heard about the people complaining about crazy loading times. I wonder what that is about I really liked the music against alien queen too.

[Mikko]

Graywolf, on 10 August 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

The sexualty in the game went too far, forced jokes are not funny.
If overused, It takes out all the seriousness of the carachter, on IMHO.

D3D had sexualty, but the game remained serious because the humor was not over the top.

If we weren't searching for dildos in a nightclub that blowjob part actually would be funny. I want a first person shooter with humor elements, not a game with porn/erotic references everywhere.

I didn't find it over the top at all. As I have said, they needed to make it more shocking simply because people wouldn't be shocked by the same things as fifteen years ago. Sexuality was strong in Duke3D and it is so in DNF as well.

The dildo bit merely provided an excuse to play with the night club's interactivity which is one of the few places in the game where there is interactivity.

If you don't like it, you don't like it, but I for one wanted a shooter with good humor and tons of porn everywhere.

Graywolf, on 10 August 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

I don't know how people can say that the nightclub level was their favorite. We can't shoot **** on that **** level. When that chick apeared asking for me to find popcorn and dildos, I was like "WTF, serious?". I wonder why people moan when the media bash the game, its a total mess of bad design, boring and unininspired variety of gameplay. To be honest, I don't want fucking variety. I want to SHOOT ALIENS, that's all. No dildo, popcorn or other *****.

So what if you can't shoot? It's just one level (and one of my favorites) and it's only good for pacing that not every level consists of shooting tons of stuff.

You're like those 80s action film directors who removed all signs of women from their movies so that they could focus purely on gay wrestling.

[Martin]

Mikko_Sandt, on 10 August 2011 - 01:17 PM, said:

I didn't find it over the top at all. As I have said, they needed to make it more shocking simply because people wouldn't be shocked by the same things as fifteen years ago. Sexuality was strong in Duke3D and it is so in DNF as well.

The dildo bit merely provided an excuse to play with the night club's interactivity which is one of the few places in the game where there is interactivity.

If you don't like it, you don't like it, but I for one wanted a shooter with good humor and tons of porn everywhere.



So what if you can't shoot? It's just one level (and one of my favorites) and it's only good for pacing that not every level consists of shooting tons of stuff.

You're like those 80s action film directors who removed all signs of women from their movies so that they could focus purely on gay wrestling.

To be fair, Mikko, you are the lone voice of DNF-defence in this thread. Nearly everyone else thinks the game sucked. I might even sell my copy. Haven't touched it since the day I finished it and thought "Hmm, that sucked."

[Danukem]

@Mikiko: Here is the actual statement by Malone, and while you claim to disagree with it, I don't see why:

Quote

“I am sure that the design team of the new Duke Nukem were a fine group of folks but somewhere along the line they decided that ramping up Duke’s offensiveness would be an easy way to make the game more controversial and fun for those that get into that mentality. As history shows, though, if one relies too much on a simple formulaic gimmick too much, many see right through the manipulation and wind up with an opposite response than desired.”

Greg Malone is making an empirical claim about how people react to the ramping up of the vulgarity. From the responses that the game has received, including in this very thread, it is clear that his empirical claim is correct. The fact that you personally are not offended by the content of the game is irrelevant, because the claim is about whether the increased vulgarity was a good move overall.

[Mikko]

DeeperThought, on 10 August 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

Greg Malone is making an empirical claim about how people react to the ramping up of the vulgarity. From the responses that the game has received, including in this very thread, it is clear that his empirical claim is correct. The fact that you personally are not offended by the content of the game is irrelevant, because the claim is about whether the increased vulgarity was a good move overall.

He's exaggerating. The porno factor pretty much disappeared immediately after that night club level which was about 2/5 into the game.

Moreover, there isn't much else beyond this vulgarity. That's the problem; when the game itself is not that good, that vulgarity becomes an easy target for critics, including this Malone guy, as if it somehow made the game much worse (which would be a silly thing to say). He's not an objective party. Anyone from the old team probably would like to believe that all the bad reviews are due to changes made by Gearbox and not due to the fact that the game underneath all the vulgarity is a mess. So, even the old team now seems to take cheap shots at the porno factor.

Martin, on 10 August 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

To be fair, Mikko, you are the lone voice of DNF-defence in this thread. Nearly everyone else thinks the game sucked.

So?

[rasmus thorup]

I love the game. Haters just shout louter than lovers

[Jimmy]

DeeperThought, on 10 August 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

Greg Malone is making an empirical claim about how people react to the ramping up of the vulgarity. From the responses that the game has received, including in this very thread, it is clear that his empirical claim is correct. The fact that you personally are not offended by the content of the game is irrelevant, because the claim is about whether the increased vulgarity was a good move overall.

Exactly, I didn't find it offensive at all. I just found it jarring compared to the more comic book-like nature of Duke Nukem.

rasmus thorup, on 10 August 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

I love the game. Haters just shout louter than lovers

People who say 'haters' generally have an IQ somewhere between dogshit and cat vomit.

[DerickVonD]

rasmus thorup, on 10 August 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

I love the game. Haters just shout louter than lovers

I'm curious what is it that you love about it? We have provided what we don't like about the game. Maybe you should provide what you enjoyed about it. I have definitely played worse games, but I have played much better also.

[DavoX]

I love it too It's pointless to point out what people like about it as it's all a matter of tastes in the end. What you hated I provably loved , etc.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

DerickVonD, on 10 August 2011 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm curious what is it that you love about it? We have provided what we don't like about the game. Maybe you should provide what you enjoyed about it. I have definitely played worse games, but I have played much better also.

My guess is probably what DavoX said above - what you disliked, he loved.

[thelegend4ever]

Although I don't think DNF is as bad as people claim, I personally think Duke's personality was best represented in Zero Hour...followed by 3D. Zero Hour had such a dark atmosphere, that up to that point, was never explored in the older games. He still kept the smartass attitude, and even interacted with other characters (JAck the Ripper and General Custard), but kept them both to a minimum while still being Duke. Although the game had it's share of sexual innuendo like signs that'd say "More meat than your mouth can take!", and Duke even witnessing a rape (Nintendo must've really opened up by that point), they all took a backseat to the overall core action of the game...which I loved. To me, DNF tried too hard at this, but the action overall was good. It just didn't feel as flawless like it did in ZH or 3D. I personally didn't mind the strip club stage, but The Hive is an completely different story. It felt awkward, and it felt off. The part that really disturbed me, besides the women getting pregnated by aliens, was the part where the Wholesome twins were dying and Duke acted like he didn't give a fuck. For once, I thought Duke was a heartless douchebag. The old Duke Nukem would NOT'VE acted that way. I'm not saying he would've cried, but he definitely would've showed concern and would've made it a goal to avenge what happened to them (case in point, ZH after he witnesses Jack the Ripper raping and killing that woman). In DNF, he was just like "Well, that sucks, movin on". I blame the writers...which is crazy considering that the writers ARE WOMEN. Overall, I like DNF, but the best version of Duke's personality is def in those games I've mentioned earlier.

[OpenMaw]

thelegend4ever, on 10 August 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

Although the game had it's share of sexual innuendo like signs that'd say "More meat than your mouth can take!", and Duke even witnessing a rape (Nintendo must've really opened up by that point),

Uh... No. Not ever. Jack The Ripper stabs one of the prostitutes to death (off camera, Duke overhears this), but there is no rape in DNZH.

[Tetsuo]

About the twins dying... he did say something to the effect of "the Aliens are going to pay for this!" right after... like it at least added to his resolve for putting the hurt on them for what they did... and also he was sometimes saying stuff like "I couldn't save them" about the women in that area when you euthenize them in general in a down beat tone implying he would have liked to....
although I do agree they probably could have handled that part better and the Holsom twins saying they'll lose the pregnancy weight wasn't exactly the best thing. Also the way the sound was setup it might not have been consisent like if you pass it quickly... or like for example in the mine level if you shoot the planks covering the entrance to the mine far away you don't hear him say "A crowbar would be handy here" which you would hear if you would have gotten close up and use melee to destroy those instead. So it's possible to miss some lines in the game depending on how you play. Either that or other sound effects where loud enough that you couldn't hear it... depending on what is going on in the game and your sound setup and settings.

Also the "looks like your fucked" line seems to me to have been inspired by Alien 3 when Ripley said "This is a maximum security prison and you don't have weapons of any kind?" to which the warden of the prison planet indicated that was correct so she said "looks like we're fucked" and he replied "No, YOU'RE fucked" and this is the movie where she had an alien queen inside her but it was a ham handed reference in the game I have to admit. Also the "this was our first time.. with an alien" is like the line in Fifth Element where Chris Tucker said "i've never felt anything like this with.... a human!" but again.. ham handed... and I don't think anyone should have been expected to just "get it" and come to it I'm not really trying to make excuses for it... yes they could have used some better writing.

[DerickVonD]

I can agree with you guys on the hive part, but I did enjoy the idea of the hive Queen.

[Sharpie]

The article sparked me to write my own article on Duke Nukem Forever now that all the fanfare has died down. I tried to touch on things that I personally felt about DNF and I hope many of you can relate to it. There's a bit of my own humour put into the mix as well.

http://NoClipping.net - Relevant and Irrelevant Gaming Crap

[Tetsuo]

Everyone seems to have missed the part where he vows vengeance against the hive queen except me and the writers of this wiki article: http://dukenukem.wik...ki/Holsom_twins

Quote

Before he can find a way to comfort them from their despair, they give birth to baby Octobrains, exploding violently in the process. Duke vows vengeance on the Alien Queen and proceeds through The Hive.

[OpenMaw]

Tetsuo, on 10 August 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

Everyone seems to have missed the part where he vows vengeance against the hive queen except me and the writers of this wiki article: http://dukenukem.wik...ki/Holsom_twins

It's one line, and no, the shit leading up to it totally ruins any sense of Duke seeming to take the death of these women seriously. "Looks like you're... Fucked!" With an air of sarcasm that doesn't fit his character at all.

[Tetsuo]

Yeah read my post in #45 particularly the second part I do think that part was badly written.

[Martin]

I have the magazine, I'm looking at the article now. It's three pages long, not including the title page. Since I don't have a scanner, I'm having to write the whole thing out. There's lots of inset information and such, so what I'll do is a separate quote box for the content of each page. It'll be up in this thread within the hour, exactly as printed in the magazine.

[X-Vector]

Tetsuo, on 10 August 2011 - 11:08 PM, said:

Also the "looks like your fucked" line seems to me to have been inspired by Alien 3 when Ripley said "This is a maximum security prison and you don't have weapons of any kind?" to which the warden of the prison planet indicated that was correct so she said "looks like we're fucked" and he replied "No, YOU'RE fucked" and this is the movie where she had an alien queen inside her but it was a ham handed reference in the game I have to admit.

No one knew there was an Alien queen growing inside her at that time - big difference.

[Martin]

Just spent the last hour writing it out in post, then the site fudged when I clicked "preview", and I lost everything. Was almost to the end of the last page, as well. So you're all going to have to wait while I have a cigarette and try not to put my fist through my monitor. Seriously, I'm pissed off.

Of note in the article, there's unused never before seen Duke 3D art for a trapped babe, impaled on an alien cocoon, dead as fuck. Also, Ken Silverman spills the beans on his time at 3D Realms, and has unkind things to say about Broussard. Basically calls him a fat useless cunt but in more sociable words. I'm gonna have a smoke and then get to writing it out in a word document[! That's what I should have done to begin with, to be honest.

[You]

Martin, on 11 August 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

Just spent the last hour writing it out in post, then the site fudged when I clicked "preview", and I lost everything. Was almost to the end of the last page, as well. So you're all going to have to wait while I have a cigarette and try not to put my fist through my monitor. Seriously, I'm pissed off.

Of note in the article, there's unused never before seen Duke 3D art for a trapped babe, impaled on an alien cocoon, dead as fuck. Also, Ken Silverman spills the beans on his time at 3D Realms, and has unkind things to say about Broussard. Basically calls him a fat useless cunt but in more sociable words. I'm gonna have a smoke and then get to writing it out in a word document[! That's what I should have done to begin with, to be honest.

Martin, thanks for doing this, but that's fucking ridiculous. Do you not know someone with a scanner? Pity you're across the pond from me

[Loke]

Martin, on 11 August 2011 - 01:53 AM, said:

I'm gonna have a smoke and then get to writing it out in a word document[! That's what I should have done to begin with, to be honest.

Now you've learned something; always use a backup, such as Microsoft Word or Notepad, and never EVER rely on a internet forum when writing something huge.

Anyway, thanks for doing it -- looking forward to the write up.

[Mikko]

thelegend4ever, on 10 August 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

but The Hive is an completely different story. It felt awkward, and it felt off. The part that really disturbed me, besides the women getting pregnated by aliens, was the part where the Wholesome twins were dying and Duke acted like he didn't give a fuck. For once, I thought Duke was a heartless douchebag. The old Duke Nukem would NOT'VE acted that way. I'm not saying he would've cried, but he definitely would've showed concern and would've made it a goal to avenge what happened to them

The Hive was brilliant but I agree that I'd have liked to see Duke react a bit more. In fact, since the rest of the "story" seemed kinda irrelevant, they should have considered building it over Duke seeking revenge for the twins' deaths. Hell, it'd have been enough if he had made a reference to them as he was pissing in the Emperor's eye socket.

[Micky C]

Mikko_Sandt, on 11 August 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

The Hive was brilliant but I agree that I'd have liked to see Duke react a bit more. In fact, since the rest of the "story" seemed kinda irrelevant, they should have considered building it over Duke seeking revenge for the twins' deaths. Hell, it'd have been enough if he had made a reference to them as he was pissing in the Emperor's eye socket.

Duke actually reacted way more in Duke 3D than he did in DNF. In Duke 3D Duke even had conversations with the Cycloid Emperor and Battlelord, even if most of them were a bit short. He also said things like "I'm gonna rip your head off and shit down your neck" to the bosses, and the pigcops also said things like "we're gonna fry you, you bastard". There are many of these 'conversations' in the game, but I don't recall Duke ever saying one word to the aliens or vice versa, which was a huge disappointment, as the whole half hour of the game was trying to convey the point of how 'personal' it was this time.

[You]

Mikko_Sandt, on 11 August 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

The Hive was brilliant but I agree that I'd have liked to see Duke react a bit more. In fact, since the rest of the "story" seemed kinda irrelevant, they should have considered building it over Duke seeking revenge for the twins' deaths. Hell, it'd have been enough if he had made a reference to them as he was pissing in the Emperor's eye socket.

Yes, very good. When you rush something, obvious things like this are missed.

[Martin]

Here it is, in full. I tried my best to write it out exactly as printed (including one or two grammatical/spelling errors in the article). As far as imagery is concerned, there's one and only one thing you're missing - unused Duke Nukem 3D graphics for a dead babe impaled on a cocoon thing. Each page of the printed article is reproduced here in it's own quote box, so you guys can make sense of it (trust me, with the inset stuff that was needed). Any red text is something I've added purely for navigation/orientation within the article. Bar the red text and double-spacing the paragraphs (indentations look great in the mag, shit on fora), everything else is exactly as it is in print.

Spoiler

Quote

TITLE PAGE

DUKE NUKEM FOREVER
WHAT WENT WRONG

Male genitalia, giant alien dildos and where Gearbox screwed up - original Duke Nukem Forever creator 3D Realms tells us what really happened 15 years ago...

Quote

PAGE ONE

Inset in left margin

NAME: GREG MALONE
THEN: CREATIVE DIRECTOR, DUKE NUKEM 3D
NOW: DESIGN CONSULTANT, SANTA FE ARTS CENTRE
SAYS: “THEY RELIED TOO MUCH ON THE POTTY-MOUTH GIMMICK”

NAME: STEPHEN HORNBACK
THEN: ARTWORK, DUKE NUKEM 3D/DUKE NUKEM FOREVER
NOW: RELEASED DIN'S CURSE, SOLDAK ENTERTAINMENT
SAYS: “GEARBOX MIGHT WANT TO HIRE SOME TALENTED WRITERS”

NAME: KEN SILVERMAN
THEN: PROGRAMMER, DUKE NUKEM 3D
NOW: RECREATIONAL PROGRAMMING
SAYS: “MY OBSESSION WAS NOT WHAT DUKE EATS FOR BREAKFAST ON LEVEL 17"

NAME: DAVID DEMARET
THEN: ARTWORK, DUKE NUKEM 3D
NOW: PAINTER
SAYS: “LOOK AT DANTE'S REBOOT, HE LOOKS STUPID AS HELL NOW”

Main body of text

Finally, it happened. It took 15 years, countless previews, broken promises and more 'the longest-running jokes in the games industry' references than anyone could keep track of, but, finally, it happened. Duke Nukem Forever was sitting on store shelves. Only one problem. It was DIRE.

“Not only is Duke Nukem Forever not worth the wait, it's not worth ANY wait. Ten years ago it would've been bad. 15 years ago it wouldn't have been worth playing. Today? It's a joke, and one that's just not funny,” wrote Ian Dransfield in issue 206 of Play. He's not the only one who thinks so. “Duke is an 18-rated game made for 13 year olds, and yet it is the gameplay that is the biggest disappointment,” says X360 magazine, while 360 magazine says, “infrequent moments of potential are soiled by bottom-rung production values, sloppy execution and dated design.”

So from the excellent Duke Nukem 3D to its awful sequel Duke Nukem Forever, what actually went wrong? We tracked down the original Duke Nukem 3D team to get their thoughts and find out what they'd do differently, how far Gearbox strayed from the original and how male genitalia almost made it into the game...

MISOGYNY WENT TOO FAR
While most reviews read like a shopping list of problems, one of the main complaints levelled at Duke Nukem Forever is that the tone is completely off, taking the tongue-in-cheek overtones of Duke Nukem 3D and cranking it up to embarrassing levels. It was embarrassing for us and even more so for the original team, who agreed that new Duke had gone too far with pushing the crude aspect of the character.

“I was personally not entirely comfortable with that aspect of Duke's character,” says Duke Nukem 3D's creative director Greg Malone. “Though in perspective we purposefully kept it at a very low level in Duke Nukem 3D. Our use of Duke's street-persona characteristics were used more like seasoning on a steak. Just enough, but not too much. I give Duke Nukem 3D's executive producer George Broussard much credit for seeming to have a good sense of how to strike that balance. It seems, though, that the new Duke has gone over the top with most categories of male-limbic brain language and themes, female exploitation, juvenile bathroom humour and so on. I am sure that the design team of the new Duke Nukem were a fine group of folks, but somewhere along the line they decided that ramping up Duke's offensiveness would be an easy way to make the game more controversial and fun for those that get into that mentality. As history shows, though, if one relies too much on a simple formulaic gimmick too much, many see right through the manipulation and wind up with an opposite response than desired.”

“I do remember a time when Greg Malone came into my office and asked me to create a 'gib' of male genitalia for the game,” explains Stephen Hornback, in charge of the game's art. “For the few who don't know, gibs are body parts that fly when you kill a character in the game. I complied. After work that day I went home to my wife who asked 'So what did you do today?' My answer, 'Well, I... ummm... hmm.' Somewhat to my relief, that never made it into the game.” >

Quote

PAGE TWO

Inset at top of page in a box

THE 'GIANT ALIEN DILDO'
One scene that caused controversy in Duke Nukem Forever is the implied alien rape of the Holsom twins, with the argument against it being that Duke Nukem 3D never went that far. Yet it nearly went much further – David Demaret, who provided additional artwork at 3D Realms, shows an unused screenshot of impaled girls in the alien base. “I remember Greg Malone asking me one day, 'Dave, can you draw us a giant alien dildo? Do you think you can do that?'” says Demaret. “And I said, 'Of course, boss, I'm on it right now!' That was the Duke spirit. It was removed by George Broussard at the last minute because he feared that the game would be censored in big supermarket chains, I was really sad because everyone loved that artwork.”

Main body of text

> 'LACKED DIRECTION'
Another game that was notorious for delays and development trouble was Prey, which was also being made at 3D Realms. Its engine was so far advanced at the time, it may have piled pressure on the Duke Nukem Forever team to come up with something even better and prompted the over-ambition that stalled the game for 15 years.

“I heard talk about Duke Nukem Forever at that time,” says David Demaret, who worked on Duke's art. “There was a lot of talk and ideas at the time, Quake was just out, things were really hot at 3D Realms. They decided on the title 'Duke Forever immediately and wanted to start work right away but the Prey engine that was being worked on back then... the Prey engine was way ahead of the competition with advanced lighting, destructible environments and portal technology. They started to work on Duke Forever on a modified Build engine (the one used for Duke Nukem 3D) with tons of cool and crazy ideas that couldn't be possible with original Duke, like using 3D models and a 'real' 3D world for a start.”

Programmer Ken Silverman, who left the developer immediately after work on Duke Nukem 3D wrapped up, thought the problem was that the team didn't really know what they were doing and didn't have a plan. “After Atomic (Duke Nukem 3D expansion pack), the Duke team messed a little bit with voxel sprites, but by that time Build was old, my future with 3D Realms was in question and they lacked any directiob.” Ouch.

DUKE WAS OUT OF DATE
One of the other main grumbles is that Duke Nukem Forever contains an uncomfortable mix of its old design awkwardly meshed together with modern nods to gaming. Yet those who are blaming Gearbox for including those modern touches such as recharging health and the two-weapon limit might be aiming their ire in the wrong direction.

“Oh, the team certainly kicked around similar ideas,” says Malone when asked if they were original touches or Gearbox's attempt to freshen things up. “These are not new concepts to gaming. For instance, I used Karma and other personality traits to represent energy and other capacities in my Moebius series of games a decade earlier. But I do remember well how we chose to keep functions as basic and easy to grasp as possible, preferring to put emphasis on gameplay balance.”

“Some of the initial ideas remained with the game, such as having Duke live in Las Vegas in his own casino,” adds Hornback, reasserting how much of the old vision lives on in the current game. “I remember doing a bunch of work on textures regarding the Hoover Dam. I think both of those locations are still in the final game. There was also the plan to continue on with Duke's high level of irreverence.”

So it seems that the Duke Nukem Forever we have now is in some ways the same Duke Nukem Forever that 3D Realms wanted, even if the humour missed the mark. So how do you update Duke Nukem and make it relevant in a world of BioShocks and Battlefields? “That's a difficult question,” says Hornback. “Poking fun at himself was something that was appreciated in Duke Nukem Forever by some. Since many of the gamers of the world have become a bit more sophisticated, it might be a good idea to come up with humour that's a bit more sophisticated. However, this is a razor'z edge. Too much sophistication would ruin Duke's persona. Gearbox might want to hire some talented writers to come up with some clever lines for Duke if there's a sequel.”

However, Demaret thinks the opposite and says that updating Duke Nukem would go against his character. “Well, he sure is outdated but it's a trademark after all. Updating his look would feel 'stupid' like what they do in Hollywood with their so-called reboots. Duke is Duke and changing it too much would be a huge mistake. Just take a look at the new Dante, for example. For the sake of 'coolness' and 'modernity' he looks stupid as hell now. So no, except for a little tweak in the clothes, I would keep Duke that way. I think they did a good job with the final Duke Nukem Forever version.”

Quote

PAGE THREE

Main body of text

MORALE WAS LOW
There are mixed stories about times working at 3D Realms, with the most illuminating coming from Ken Silverman. “I was the engine guy,” he says. “My obsession was all about sectors and frame rate, and not what Duke eats for breakfast on level 17. It was great working with a team of people with a similar drive and goal. I loved seeing others show off their latest stuff. It was also a lot of fun doing network 'testing'. On the bad side, I hated asking people for rides, as I was too young to rent a car. Sometimes I didn't eat enough and went home hungry. With multiple teams in the same building, many people stole ideas and feelings were hurt. What I remember most is George Broussard sitting behind someone, stealing a fry, sipping his coke, and saying 'cool' to something while not appreciating the work that went into it.”

We then asked what he thinks of Duke Nukem Forever now it's out. “I would like to wish success to Allen Blum (assistant director). Beyond that, I don't really care. I have not played the game.” Ouch.

Yet most of the team seems to have got along. Demaret says he still talks to some of the old Duke Nukem guys and happily reels off anecdotes off his time there. “I'm a French guy and as you know we love eating food and baguettes,” says Demaret, happily conforming to stereotype. “Having to live in Dallas was really hard for me. One day Richard Gray (Duke Nukem 3D level designer) and I went to a sandwich store named Subway. Of course, I'd never heard of it. I saw what was on display and the different 'breads' that they had on display, I immediately said out loud 'that eez not bread, that eez shit!' with a typical French accent! I was really shocked because we love bread so much in France. Richard laughed his ass off and told that story to the whole team... we always talk about that episode.”

IT JUST WASN'T THAT GOOD
But ultimately, it comes down to one thing – Duke Nukem Forever just isn't that good. The pacing is poor, the difficulty uneven and the execution awful. It falls awkwardly between old-school first-person shooters (Unreal Tournament III, Serious Sam 3) and the new modern breed of cinematic shooters (Modern Warfare, Battlefield, Homefront). Silverman doesn't want to get drawn into the argument of whether modern-day Duke Nukem Forever is any good, having not played it. “I was not too involved with the content of Duke,” he says. “I can only comment on the Build engine. They rarely suggested ideas that weren't already in some other game, such as Quake.” He does, surprisingly, suggest that it was multiplayer and not single-player that created the Duke legacy to begin with.

Likewise, Hornback hasn't played Duke Nukem Forever but he's followed its progress (“I have read many of the reviews, including Play magazine's”) and he thinks that Duke Nukem could be updated to fit into modern gaming's new era. “I haven't played Duke Nukem Forever because I've been busy working on Din's Curse but I believe Duke can be brought into the 21st century,” he says. “It will take a bit of clear thinking, but I believe that Gearbox can take Duke to the next level. For example, James Bond is still quite popular and is the only character I know who could emerge from a horrific fight still wearing a neatly pressed tuxedo. Bond has been updated over the years, and Duke should receive the same treatment. Fans of the franchise would appreciate it.”

Yet the last word falls to Greg Malone, who feels that while critics may have been unfair, it was also the fault of those who took over Duke Nukem Forever for not coming up with a good enough game. “I do wish the Duke Nukem Forever developers better long-term luck than they seem to have had so far, in terms of the mixed reception,” he says. “I know they must've put in a tremendous amount of effort. It is possible that they were too close to the trees to see the forest in terms of making it a fun game, and, as I said earlier, they may have relied too much on the potty-mouth gimmick for the game's own good.

“I do suspect that with the infamous 15-year spectacle of DNF (also known as Did Not Finish) struggling to reach the market, the reviewers have been sharpening their knives in anticipation of finding fault with the game. That said, again, it's up to the designers to counter that possibility with an extraordinary design effort.”

Inset at right of page

IDEAS THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT
Duke Nukem Forever – 1998
Using primitive 3D technology, the first iteration was full of ideas that never made it – a collapsing pier, a female Duke sidekick, mine-cart riding, alien NPCs, a boulder chase and invisible enemies are some of the few that gave way as development progressed.

Duke Nukem Forever – 2001
The storyline is different, as the president is kidnapped and the EDF doubt that you can save the world. This version was also brimming with fresh ideas including donkey riding, a riot shield of your own, a Terminator-style boss and a speedboat section.

Duke Nukem Forever – 2003
This is the first time 3D Realms decided to bring in the Ego mechanic, although it worked separately to the health. It's very dark and the tone is more that of a horror than the lightweight Duke Nukem lark we're accustomed to.

Duke Nukem Forever – 2007
Gameplay clips are thin on the ground, so we don't see anything new here. It's likely this was when Duke Nukem Forever was being battered into release state, with the final models of the Octobrain and Pig-cops showing up for the first time.

For me, what Ken Silverman says carries a lot of weight. You don't often hear anything from that guy, especially with regards to Duke (and never with regards to DNF). He comes across as a nice guy who didn't think much at all of Broussard, and says so in his own tempered way. Sorry it took an age, as it doesn't seem like a lot of text. Trust me, reading three pages and getting it word for word (including all their italics etc) took fucking ages. Especially when you do it twice. Enjoy!

You, on 11 August 2011 - 02:57 AM, said:

Martin, thanks for doing this, but that's fucking ridiculous. Do you not know someone with a scanner? Pity you're across the pond from me

Not that I know of. It's not something people around here scream about. I could ask around. I actually thought real text would be more conducive to being picked apart and quoted by the community here, thus better in that regard. Apart from the one piece of art, everything else you've seen a bazillion times.

Loke, on 11 August 2011 - 03:48 AM, said:

Now you've learned something; always use a backup, such as Microsoft Word or Notepad, and never EVER rely on a internet forum when writing something huge. :PAnyway, thanks for doing it -- looking forward to the write up.

Haha, YUP. Seriously, I audibly moaned "FFFFFFF-UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU... k!" when it happened. Major karmic disruption.

[thelegend4ever]

Commando Nukem, on 10 August 2011 - 07:10 PM, said:

Uh... No. Not ever. Jack The Ripper stabs one of the prostitutes to death (off camera, Duke overhears this), but there is no rape in DNZH.

Jack the Ripper was known to rape women and then mutliate them. So although it wasn't directly seen, one can assume, and it's implied, he raped her (in a bedroom...with a prostitute. Nuff said).