Duke 3D console ports "Best console version of the 90s?"
#1 Posted 17 July 2011 - 04:35 PM
From the two I've played, and what I've seen of it on PlayStation, I see it like this; The Saturn and N64 ports were the most "changed" ones, but for different reasons. The Saturn version is very different just in terms of the engine. Until that iPhone version a couple of years ago, it was (apparently) the only official version of Duke 3D that was actually 3D, including the PC original (though I seem to remember looking up/down on N64 without everything warping?). Some level geometry seems changed/simplified, but for the most part it seems that Lobotomy were gunning for as much of a perfect port as possible on the SlaveDriver engine, whilst taking advantage of several technical abilities not afforded by the Build engine (3D renderer, dynamic lighting, etc). For some reason the voice samples (including monster sounds) were sped-up. I'm thinking more efficient use of limited audio memory, but what do I know?
The 'look' of the game on Saturn is very dark and gritty with gun shots and explosions lighting up the place. Also, the movement seems very smooth (the movement of Duke, not framerate). There's a sense of inertia here that no other version to date has. Duke feels less like a floating camera with a gun, and more like a man. The gameplay seemed ever so slightly slower, to me. Not particularly obvious maybe, but it didn't seem to quite have the speed of other versions. But yeah, in it's day I pretty much just saw it as an awesome-looking version of Duke 3D. Although it felt a little different to play, to me it mirrored the PC original where it mattered and gave Saturn gamers something to gloat about. "Duke Nukem 3D with no censorship and awesome 3D graphics? Yes please!" - Late 90s console gamer.
Duke Nukem 64 was massively changed just in terms of content. It seemed to run on a version of Build, and gameplay seemed pretty faithful to the PC original. The world itself was quite sanitized in terms of adult themes. Violence apparently doesn't count as an "adult theme", and as such the game was just as gratuitous as the PC original. It basically just lacked all the vices - strippers, drugs, alcohol, etc. Eurocom can't be blamed for this. It was Nintendo being dicks. Anyway, the violence is all there, present-and-correct. One might say this is technically the most violent version of all, since on N64 we can mutilate corpses with any attack, not just explosives.
I don't remember exactly, but the levels were a mashup of different stuff from the PC original. What was there seemed somewhat faithful, but we'd get it in a different order, or two levels stuck together. Therefore not faithful? What I mean is that while you might have got a frankenlevel here and there, it's component parts were relatively on par with wherever they came from on PC (sans "N64-blur" haha). I do remember this version looking like a cartoon next to the Saturn port, but then the Saturn one looks significantly gritter than the PC original. I guess the N64 port is just the other end of the visual-style spectrum. Some enemies (particularly the Assualt Trooper/Captain) seem to have been redrawn, and look slightly more cartoon-y.
I have no real idea how the PlayStation version stacks up against the others in terms of content. Graphics-wise, it seems to take after it's PC father more than it's siblings. It has the exact same look about it.. just low-res and on a PlayStation. I'm sure it probably has changed/simplified levels like the others, but someone else can attest to that. Gameplay seems just like PC Duke in terms of speed, etc. I consider this one the ugliest of the three. In a screenshot it maintains very good consistency with the PC original, but in motion it doesn't seem to cope well. I think they could have done with an FPS engine built for the hardware, as SlaveDriver was for the Saturn.
These days, there's no real reason to play any of these. Still, which one would you choose to play now if you had to? For me it's the Saturn version. The N64 version runs at a good lick, but has had a lot of the character sucked out of it via censorship (though has some very cool new guns and stuff). The PlayStation one looks just like PC Duke 3D, but performance seems the worst of the three. For me the Saturn version presses the right buttons. It's Duke 3D, but like you've never played it before. It's like it's an absolutely fucking amazing TC of another game. If I was to go back, I'd play that one since it did some cool things before any other version of Duke, and it's rather unique in terms of Duke Nukem 3D ports. It's more of a remake. If you'd have said to me in '97 that one day there would be an awesome 3D version of the game with dynamic lighting and all that good stuff (yourself referring to EDuke32), I would have showed you my Saturn version and said "It's already here".
Saturn/PlayStation Duke 3D comparison video:
This post has been edited by Martin: 17 July 2011 - 04:55 PM
#2 Posted 17 July 2011 - 06:37 PM
#3 Posted 17 July 2011 - 06:59 PM
#4 Posted 17 July 2011 - 07:38 PM
Total Meltdown had the best music of all ports IMO.
#5 Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:05 PM
I hated the PSX music. Profusely.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 17 July 2011 - 09:06 PM
#6 Posted 17 July 2011 - 10:52 PM
#7 Posted 17 July 2011 - 11:02 PM
This post has been edited by DerickVonD: 17 July 2011 - 11:03 PM
#8 Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:51 AM
#9 Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:59 AM
#10 Posted 18 July 2011 - 03:43 AM
Captain Awesome, on 17 July 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:
Martin, on 17 July 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:
EmericaSkater, on 17 July 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:
I agree. In terms of pure performance, it was the best. I don't remember it ever slowing down or anything. It had some sweet new guns, and the way it looked a little different was kind of cool. More rounded and smooth. I liked the 3D explosions at the time. I always thought the LEGO Cycloid Emperor looked bad though, despite his towering size (he is utterly massive on N64!).
EmericaSkater, on 17 July 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:
People can like whatever version best for whatever reason. A lot of what people love about Duke is his attitude, rude quips, controversial surroundings and actions. The N64 version dilutes this aspect of the character massively. It doesn't really matter when you get down to playing it, but it's there and for some of us it was a real shame. It's the reason I owned it on two consoles back in the day. N64 for co-op multiplayer mostly, and when I saw the Saturn version I just had to get it as well.
MusicallyInspired, on 17 July 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:
I hated the PSX music. Profusely.
The N64 port didn't have any music! Or is that why you prefer it? What's bad about the PlayStation soundtrack?
DerickVonD, on 17 July 2011 - 11:02 PM, said:
Touch! I forgot to mention the awesome split-screen co-op for N64 in my opening post. We played that a lot, and it fucking rocked! Never mind the other versions of Duke, to my knowledge no other FPS game at the time on consoles had such a mode. The Genesis version is really just Duke-in-name-only. Beyond the hideous downsampling of a couple enemy sprites and Duke's hand, I see nothing of the PC original in that game. Hence why I didn't include it.
#11 Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:02 AM
I think the Saturn version had the best soundtrack. Had a handful of the tracks from the PC version but they were all digitized and some of them remixed slightly.
#12 Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:36 AM
Martin, on 18 July 2011 - 03:43 AM, said:
Sorry, I should've been more specific. I don't have a problem with people that prefer one version over the other, that's all a matter of tastes and opinion. What I hate are dumbasses that dismiss/condemn the game entirely on the "OMG IS THIS LIEK THE SUGARCOATED VERSION OR SOMETHING?" grounds. If you really do dislike the game just because it was censored, that indicates that all you really care about is the language and the campy content. Sure, that stuff gives it some appeal, but that isn't what makes the game entertaining. And while the censorship may have stifled some of the game's character, I wouldn't really say that it's "massive". DN64 was my first exposure to Duke Nukem (everything else followed), and even past the censorship, I got the premise. I understood that Duke was a badass, even if he said things like "Holy cow" instead of "Holy shit".
This post has been edited by EmericaSkater: 18 July 2011 - 07:36 AM
#13 Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:53 AM
#14 Posted 18 July 2011 - 09:16 AM
I really like the Plug and Pray episode, however overall Total Meltdowns sucks due to very low performance. While n64 version converts the entire map area to a 3d model which the console can handle easier, the PSX version looked more like a DOS emulator.
#16 Posted 18 July 2011 - 11:52 AM
#17 Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:14 PM
This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 18 July 2011 - 12:14 PM
#18 Posted 18 July 2011 - 12:31 PM
Captain Awesome, on 18 July 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:
Probably wasn't enough cartridge space.
#19 Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:00 PM
Martin, on 17 July 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:
Fixed.
Martin, on 17 July 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:
You're (probably) exactly right. The Saturn has limited sound memory, and while it may work, not with both music and sound effects at the same time. (Especially since it used CD audio.) Therefore, the quality of the samples has to drop.
The Commander, on 17 July 2011 - 07:38 PM, said:
Total Meltdown had the best music of all ports IMO.
I've made music packs of the N64, Saturn, and PSX console ports for EDuke32. N64 and Saturn are on my site. PSX I released as a beta somewhere on these forums and haven't added a component to my site yet. Please note, the FLAC versions don't work in EDuke32 because there's no FLAC support. Only the OGG ones work.
Martin, on 18 July 2011 - 03:43 AM, said:
I'm pretty sure at least GoldenEye and Perfect Dark had split-screen.
DerickVonD, on 18 July 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:
The Saturn port had one stupid exclusive level called "Urea 51" where you're inside toilets or a bathroom or something. It also was one of the few Saturn games to support netlink multiplayer. (Both PSX and Saturn ports had multiplayer, but you had to link together multiple consoles IIRC.) Another thing it has is the exclusive "Death Tank Zwei" minigame which has a bit of a cult following.
#20 Posted 18 July 2011 - 04:56 PM
EmericaSkater, on 18 July 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:
Indeed, but then at the very least it seems like a lot of the character was, purely through how some of the games iconic scenes were nerfed. It's not the minor bits of censorship scattered about the game that people remember. It's that there's no strip club, and babes were magically teleported from alien cocoons to some mystery safe place instead of being put out of their misery. But I know what you mean. Duke 64 is the first one I owned. I played it on a friend's PC first, and loved it. We didn't have a computer, and so I got it for my N64 and fucking adored it.
My Saturn was long packed-away by this point. GAME had a tiny Saturn shelf, and I occasionally looked at it still. Saw Duke Nukem 3D on the Saturn shelf one day, jizzed my pants and bought it. I have the analogue controller, and so the game controls comparably to the N64 version. I suppose it was 1998 by this point? Anyway, GAME were flogging Saturn stuff off for very cheap, and I convinced my parents to get it.
DerickVonD, on 18 July 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:
Yeah, it's like a really blandly-envisioned interior to the Death Star. Nothing but beige corridors attached to perfectly cubic beige rooms. It made no sense at all.
Hendricks266, on 18 July 2011 - 02:00 PM, said:
GoldenEye has split-screen competitive multiplayer only, and Perfect Dark was released in 2000. Hence "at the time".
#21 Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:01 PM
TX, on 18 July 2011 - 12:31 PM, said:
Actually, apparently there was and they did on purpose. I don't remember correctly what was the reason, but it envolves ambience sound.
#22 Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:19 PM
DerickVonD, on 18 July 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:
Multiplayer
New level (IT HAS A GIANT TOILET!!!!)
#23 Posted 18 July 2011 - 07:15 PM
Fox, on 18 July 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:
Well that's a damned shame.
#24 Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:43 PM
Hendricks266, on 18 July 2011 - 02:00 PM, said:
Actually the Saturn version had true online play. Yes, on line. As in Internet. You had to buy a Sega NetLink modem and stick it in the cart slot.
The Saturn version was the best because it was extremely faithful to the PC version but also ran off of Lobotomy's highly advanced Slave Driver engine. It's one of the rare instances of a game where the Saturn port is actually the best one.
The N64 version is too neutered.
#25 Posted 19 July 2011 - 08:41 PM
http://hendricks266....music_packs.php
Descent, on 19 July 2011 - 07:43 PM, said:
That's what I meant, but I didn't say it quite right.
Hendricks266, on 18 July 2011 - 02:00 PM, said:
This post has been edited by Hendricks266: 19 July 2011 - 09:20 PM
#26 Posted 20 July 2011 - 04:18 AM
Martin, on 17 July 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:
I've never played any of the ports, but based on this video I can't understand the praise for the Saturn version.
Smoother framerate is the only thing it seems to have on the PS, but lighting, contrast, colours and texturing are worse.
In fact, it makes it all the more apparent how right 3D Realms got it in Duke3D, because the alterations on the Saturn to the original design are all detrimental IMO.
One small example is the repetition of the horizontal blue lines in the forcefield room in Spaceport (from 6:45 in the video), that just looks tacky.
#27 Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:02 AM
The Sega Saturn version on the other hand was a little better but there still are issues. There were True 3D objects and the textures were much cleaner and crisper than the PS1 version, but the game ran a bit slower and the way Duke turns is a just odd. It's like every time he turns he lifts his other leg up and turns with one foot. I noticed that some levels where generally smaller and even some levels are not even there such as Tier Drops and Freeway. There is a bonus level though called Urea 51 but that *Shivers* is just terrible. There is lack of scripted events and not even a duck button. The Saturn Version is not great. You needed a Sega Netlink for the Multiplayer to work. I have seen gameplay of it and you could even attach your Sega Netlink Mouse and Keyboard so you can play with proper PC controls. Two people Duked it out in multiple maps and you could even play Co-op together.
#28 Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:56 PM
And here's all you need to know of the Sega Saturn exclusive secret level:
#30 Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:49 AM
Micky C, on 20 July 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:
Some of these may have already been mentioned by others earlier in the topic, but I'll list many that I know of.
It's missing rotating doors, gears and stuff, details in levels seem to be lower (understandable), Duke isn't saying quotes where he's meant to (ex. getting to the sub in Death Row, he's supposed to say "I think I'll climb aboard" when he gets there. He says nothing in the Saturn version). There's probably more I missed.
Course, those things are probably just nitpicky stuff.