[Robman]

Evilman, on 13 January 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

Yes i know, but it was slightly going on others subjects, i have the feeling i re-centered the discussion on religion.

Beside that, there's a topic about it here, it doesn't look great, but maybe we should use it. Or not. The discussion is interesting otherwise, i have nothing special to add but i keep reading it.

I know, but this is a new, short discussion, with me in it this time, heh. If the thread that can be about anything gravitates to this subject, clearly people wish to talk it out. As the world stage is alive with it.

You'll see random topics come up yet remain short lived to a topic w/ legs so-to-speak.

The word "religion" carries a stigma, it's done this way on purpose. Make things so confusing people don't know what to believe.

[High Treason]

Robman, on 13 January 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

And the Lord SAID "let there be light"

You're not looking deep enough by the way, given your second statement.

Whatever, your points simply back mine up as they imply something had to exist already.

I'm talking about photons and shit and that isn't deep enough... It can't get much smaller. You're still avoiding my question, or at least, failing to come up with a viable alternative to my answers.

[Robman]

High Treason, on 13 January 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

Whatever, your points simply back mine up as they imply something had to exist already.

I'm talking about photons and shit and that isn't deep enough... It can't get much smaller. You're still avoiding my question, or at least, failing to come up with a viable alternative to my answers.

And I said you're not looking deep enough, what made the photon?

[High Treason]

Nobody knows for certain.

My own theory is that it always existed in some form because if it can't be destroyed the creation of it would probably defy the laws of thermodynamics. It might not have started out as a photon though.

[Mblackwell]

@Robman
The implied logical conclusion is a dead end. You're suggesting that God (or equivalent) created the photon. The question is then what created God? The standard response is then "nothing".

If God could exist with nothing creating him/it, then therefore so could the Universe.

Alternately, if you suggested something could exist before God it leads to infinite creators (which is kind of an infinitely complex answer).

[Robman]

Mblackwell, on 13 January 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

@Robman
The implied logical conclusion is a dead end. You're suggesting that God (or equivalent) created the photon. The question is then what created God? The standard response is then "nothing".

If God could exist with nothing creating him/it, then therefore so could the Universe.

Alternately, if you suggested something could exist before God it leads to infinite creators (which is kind of an infinitely complex answer).

Perhaps even void is conscious and that consciousness is God. I'm good with not knowing the answer to a question no living being has ever known

But then alas, the next question asked is " Who created nothing?" and it makes me chuckle, call it a cosmic joke hehe

[Mblackwell]

And who created what created nothing?

Etc.

[Fox]

[Forge]

High Treason, on 13 January 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

laws of thermodynamics.

which break down at the quantum level.

it's a catch 22. The universe needed the laws of physics in order to be created out of nothing. The laws of physics didn't exist until after the universe was created.

Mblackwell, on 13 January 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

The question is then what created God?

God has a son; implying lineage. So...mommy and daddy God created God.

God said that thou shalt not worship others gods before Him; implying there are other gods.


I personally believe there is a god. I have no way to fathom Its plans or intentions, but from my perspective as a member of the team on the field, I do question the plays the Coach is sending in and why we seem to be kicking the ball in the wrong direction

[Wienerhole]

Fox: Trading of goods is not the same thing as cultural invasion where the end game is the intentional implosion of the host.

"What came before God": Assuming linear perception of time is the only way to look at existence is about as absurd as assuming a DVD can only be watched start to finish. Linear time is a deliberately limited lens to look at existence through, and trying to force the logic of "god" to fit into the logic of linear time/existence is like a person trying to solve Calculus problems using Geometry. It's always going to be awkward and sometimes futile.

Forge, on 14 January 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

I personally believe there is a god. I have no way to fathom Its plans or intentions, but from my perspective as a member of the team on the field, I do question the plays the Coach is sending in and why we seem to be kicking the ball in the wrong direction

Finding out what sort of being a soul will be when they really aren't sure what's going to happen next. It's easy to be Zeus when you can see every frame of the movie and jump around with ease. Whole different ballgame when a lot of people are voting on the next frame, the votes are private, and you don't like the movie being chosen.

It's an incredible way to bring out and see your genuine nature more truthfully in a way that you can't see when you have access to seeing everything.

This is why video games are a cool middle ground. You can read a book and "feel" like Captain Nemo, but you know you are always safe and everything will turn out as it should. Video games are safe too, but you can't be sure everything will turn out as it should. Might not even finish if you give up, but it will always be there if you want to go back to it. A real linear life is the ultimate expression of the expansion of narrative experiences and options.

[Fox]

Excuse me, but "stealing our jobs" doesn't apply to both cases?

[Wienerhole]

Fox, on 14 January 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Excuse me, but "stealing our jobs" doesn't apply to both cases?

Because the uneducated redneck reaction to immigration is the only one out there...

The globalists use immigration to grind down and overload the system making the region easier to control from the top.

I don't blame people who immigrate, even illegally. Those aren't who I'm talking about, I'm talking about the people who actually know what they are doing setting policies and programs in place with benign sounding purposes but with the absolute goal of converting a strong community into a mush that can easily be dictated to.

[Robman]

All of this stuff should be common knowledge, the disappointment runs deep. ....

I blinked and it turned 182.

Talk of dimensions flies around and nobody bats an eye, say the word Jesus however and everyone loses their mind, haha

[Hank]

Robman, on 13 January 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

I think you should consider that I live off the grid, solar. I am open minded, it led me somewhere Good.

Why does mankind matter so much? Because when it comes to matter(s). Mankind has the power to concern everything.

Then we have something in common, we both found what we need and/or where looking for.

As for mankind, hmm matter matters only when matter is composed of something significant. Is mankind significant? If yes, then it matters.

[Robman]

I vote yes Hank. Humans have the power in them to destroy the planet basically.
Same can be said for no other creature here. If we can make it that bad, I wonder how the opposite would be?
By that I mean the good we could do as some things seem to be like a pendulum able to swing just as far one way as the other.
Like: emotions, weather(temp), magnetism etc.. A tree's roots extend out just as far as the top, yadda.

Forge, on 14 January 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

which break down at the quantum level.
God has a son; implying lineage. So...mommy and daddy God created God.

It's not really thought of to be like that.

Forge, on 14 January 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

God said that thou shalt not worship others gods before Him; implying there are other gods.

People could worship anything to be a god, a calf made of gold or a turd for example.

[Fox]

Would be offensive if it wasn't a real person.

[Robman]

ffs

[Mblackwell]

CharlesT, on 14 January 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

"What came before God": Assuming linear perception of time is the only way to look at existence is about as absurd as assuming a DVD can only be watched start to finish. Linear time is a deliberately limited lens to look at existence through, and trying to force the logic of "god" to fit into the logic of linear time/existence is like a person trying to solve Calculus problems using Geometry. It's always going to be awkward and sometimes futile.

Right, which is why it's both silly to assume there was a something "before" that created everything, and why to me religion (in this case) is insultingly reductionist. It's an amazing marvel that the universe works the way it does and appears to do so all on its own, and we find new layers upon layers of things we can only barely comprehend because of our limited brains. To me it's horrible to reduce it to "god did it!" and try to explain everything simplistically that way. Once you hit that wall where you start assuming a god (as the explanation for something) to me it implies that someone has reached the limit of their knowledge capacity. Which is fine in a way, but people with little knowledge often assume they have all of the answers. And not only do I not know how the universe came into existence but I wouldn't dare to try and make the assumption that I knew or that it could be easily explained by our current every day human perceptions (which subconsciously insist we must invoke agency to every action, and that we must be the center of/most important things). Instead I'll keep seeking knowledge about the way the universe works and keep learning from others (with more knowledge than I have about those things) who are searching for the origins of everything.

[Robman]

It's also horrible to throw out something glorious due to one perceived unknown notion..

Perhaps science can help reinforce faith...

[Mblackwell]

It's important to retain important lessons while ignoring the bullshit that might come along with them.

[Micky C]

Whether there's a god or not, you can't deny that all religious practices are derived from man, not some higher being. All the sacred texts and everything are written by human beings, and the events that the texts are based on usually happend a considerable time before the writings actually took place. The point I'm trying to make is if there is a god, then he probably wouldn't care about all the rituals and things we do like going to church on sundays for example. Likewise if there's a heaven, it's probably enough to just live a good life and be nice to other people to get into it.

I'm agnostic btw, so I don't take part in any religion but likewise I don't 100% deny the existence of a possible god. Still, I'm a science guy.

[Lunick]

Micky blows all the women up.

[Kyanos]

Quote

Still, I'm a science guy.

Jesus was a science guy too. He said "I am the light of the world." Today we know light and energy better than most did before us, heat radiates infrared light, you following me, we are hot blooded... you there yet. Say it with me now...

Spoiler

I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD TOO!!

[Hank]

Drek, on 14 January 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Jesus was a science guy too. He said "I am the light of the world." Today we know light and energy better than most did before us, heat radiates infrared light, you following me, we are hot blooded... you there yet. Say it with me now...

Spoiler

I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD TOO!!

How illuminating

Spoiler

The Bible reads:
Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. (John 8:12 as per New American Bible)

Anyone following you wont be able to go far when the sun goes out, you being the only light source
You want to be sardonic and if you have brains, use them

[Forge]

Mblackwell, on 14 January 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

To me it's horrible to reduce it to "god did it!" and try to explain everything simplistically that way. Once you hit that wall where you start assuming a god (as the explanation for something) to me it implies that someone has reached the limit of their knowledge capacity. Which is fine in a way, but people with little knowledge often assume they have all of the answers.

and assuming all religious people think like that is pretty biased.
enough people do think religious people are all living under a rock, so it's a pretty common prejudice.

[Wienerhole]

Robman, on 14 January 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Talk of dimensions flies around and nobody bats an eye, say the word Jesus however and everyone loses their mind, haha

You have to admit, the guy is pretty misrepresented and misunderstood these days.

[Wienerhole]

Micky C, on 14 January 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Whether there's a god or not, you can't deny that all religious practices are derived from man, not some higher being.

Here is something I will acknowledge.

Some writings and thoughts come from men of higher caliber and in-formation awareness than others.

Derive your own choices.

[Wienerhole]

Micky C, on 14 January 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Still, I'm a science guy.

This means you are a follower because I'm pretty sure you are not practicing personal science on the vast majority of your beliefs, but instead basing your beliefs on a widely accepted social structure. Science is the modern incarnation of the Church. Christ on a stick... it's an organization of rules of thought and financial control which dictates the direction of inquiry. You may have fallen in love with the spiritually valid "idea" of science, but modern science is the modern church. It will be recorded as such in "history" where TPTB make fun of their slaves of the past for being so stupid in the way TPTB now makes fun of their "religious" slaves.

The mindsets who depend on "majority" or "official" approval to survive don't care how they get it, only that they get it.

[High Treason]

You are aware there's an edit button right?



Who's dick is this guy sucking because I want a go, if I kept doing this every day I'd get in shit for it.



As for the discussion. It is entirely possible to be both a Religion guy and a Science guy.

[Mark]

Hence "Scientology"