[Forge]

Maybe DanM or Spiker can have a look to see what the trigger is and why it can be randomly bypassed.

[Forge]

Okay now for the retarded question portion of our program:

Where am I supposed to go after I get back to the Nexus? I figured one of those other two portals would open up and let me start the second episode.

I could go back through all the levels again. Now that all the enemies are dead I can try to find the golden apples I missed, but that really doesn't sound too thrilling.

I take it I'm to start a new episode manually from the game menu.

Anything in particular you want me to test out (specific characters or abilities), or just go all out random again?

[Danukem]

 Forge, on Feb 22 2011, 07:58 PM, said:

Okay now for the retarded question portion of our program:

Where am I supposed to go after I get back to the Nexus? I figured one of those other two portals would open up and let me start the second episode.

I could go back through all the levels again. Now that all the enemies are dead I can try to find the golden apples I missed, but that really doesn't sound too thrilling.

Originally we had planned for there to be a special set of respawns and collectible items that would appear if you went through the levels again, but that never got implemented. So just enjoy the fireworks and quit.

 Forge, on Feb 22 2011, 07:58 PM, said:

Anything in particular you want me to test out (specific characters or abilities), or just go all out random again?

The main thing I am interested in is the WGR episode. It was nice that you played the first episode again, but the WGR conversion episode is what this release is really about. The conversion was a rush job and the gameplay in those levels still needs some work. It may be uneven and unpolished. Also I want to know whether the end boss is too hard or too easy. He seems about right to me, but my opinion may be way off.

[Forge]

Can do chief. Do you want me to play as Duke or the new character?

I played the first episode because I didn't get to really enjoy it when it was initially released because of the constant crashes I kept having. Figured I'd have a go at it to see how it was really supposed to be experienced.

I'll take a turn at the second episode when I'm done with the new one and keep bugging you 'bout what I find, 'cause I'm lonely and like your company.

[Danukem]

I think you should try the WGR episode using Duke first, to reduce the number of variables. That way, if you have problems I can be fairly certain it is due to the levels and not to the character.

[MetHy]

I am very skeptical concerning WGR2 1.2. The gameplay was so solid in the original version with the original Duke enemies, weapons and items, that I'm afraid that the new version with all the new stuff might actually be worse. Hopefully I won't be disappointed.

Some of the stuff seem even useless to me: for example showing the number of damage you deal when you hit an enemy. I hope this can be turned off: the point of WGR2 seem to be making a classic badass old school FPS, and showing any kind of enemy HP isn't classic at all.
Plus, people who actually care about that are used to learning the weapons and the enemy HP by themselves and that's part of the fun to figure it out without any indication (for example I can tell that in Duke3D, if I want to save shotgun ammo, instead of shooting a pigcop twice with the shotgun, I can just shoot him once and switch to the pistol to finish him with 3-4 bullets).

[Micky C]

You're kidding about it being worse, you've seen the trailer right? http://forums.duke4....?showtopic=3526

Anyway yeah the damage number indicator thing can be turned off. In order to switch it on, you first need to get the "pain jewel" which is the item that allows this feature, and it's switched off by default. You can switch it off and on by 'using' it just like you would with any other inventory item.

[MetHy]

 Micky C, on Feb 24 2011, 10:39 AM, said:

You're kidding about it being worse, you've seen the trailer right? http://forums.duke4....?showtopic=3526

Yes, I have, that was my point.

[Danukem]

 MetHy, on Feb 24 2011, 01:31 AM, said:

Some of the stuff seem even useless to me: for example showing the number of damage you deal when you hit an enemy. I hope this can be turned off: the point of WGR2 seem to be making a classic badass old school FPS, and showing any kind of enemy HP isn't classic at all.
Plus, people who actually care about that are used to learning the weapons and the enemy HP by themselves and that's part of the fun to figure it out without any indication (for example I can tell that in Duke3D, if I want to save shotgun ammo, instead of shooting a pigcop twice with the shotgun, I can just shoot him once and switch to the pistol to finish him with 3-4 bullets).

So that's your big example of how this version might be worse?

The pain crystal is an inventory item that shows enemy damage when it is turned on. It has been in the game since the very first release.


As for the converted maps: Don't even think of them as being the same maps, because the gameplay has to be quite different. There's no way to make it equivalent with a different set of enemies and weapons that don't behave the same. Some of the maps were unfinished, unreleased maps that had been made after WGR but before WGR2, so there are stylistic and quality differences as you go from one level to another. What I'm saying is that it would be a miracle if the "new" episode were as good and cohesive as the first. However, it will still be fun, with lots of stuff to make it a great release. Even if the converted maps sucked (they don't) there's lots of other good stuff in this release.

[Forge]

odd occurrence:

finished the "intro" level to the third episode. After clearing the house and dropping down the chasm the screen popped up showing how many apples & items I found, etc. and was "floating" around the level in the third person view.

I was actually struck by lightning and took damage while that was happening.

[Forge]

I don't know if this short cut to the finish is supposed to be accessible in the first map but the jump from the nearby ridge to the platform where the quake power-up and boss are is totally make-able.


...as seen, I already made the jump, grabbed the quake power-up, killed the boss, turned around and killed the wizard, jumped back to take a screen shot...

[Danukem]

OK, I have fixed that.

[Forge]

Playing the second level.

Jumped across the chasm and entered the castle gate. Straight back to the wall and then to the right is a generic war ambiance 234 tag.

No big deal, but that standard vanilla duke sound was definitely noticeable.

[Danukem]

Are you saying there is something buggy about the way you entered the castle, or are you just describing the location of the Duke sound?

By the way, it seems that I fucked up the leech power again. Using it can get you killed now, lol. So if you want a life saving power, use regeneration until I get that fixed.

[Forge]

 DeeperThought, on Feb 24 2011, 10:04 PM, said:

Are you saying there is something buggy about the way you entered the castle, or are you just describing the location of the Duke sound?

The location of the sound.

I'm just so used to hearing that particular file in an alley, street, or subway that it seemed out of place in a castle court yard.

[Danukem]

Heh, that's not as bad as the airplane flying overhead sound that I just heard in level 3.

[Forge]

 DeeperThought, on Feb 24 2011, 11:39 PM, said:

Heh, that's not as bad as the airplane flying overhead sound that I just heard in level 3.

I stand corrected. The area is actually tagged with a soundrange. The next time I ran through there I got the jet flyby.

[Danukem]

 Forge, on Feb 24 2011, 09:47 PM, said:

I stand corrected. The area is actually tagged with a soundrange. The next time I ran through there I got the jet flyby.

I don't want to go through every map and change the sound tags, so I'll replace the Duke sound files with suitable ones instead.

[William Gee]

I am around but I dont Im not able to help with mapping, all I can do is make sugesttions at this point.
But seems like everything is under controll so thats awesome.

@ Meth, you were very skeptical about the first release of WGR2, but loved it, Im not all all woried, I never liked how you can see how much damige you are causeing, but that is a option and has been so since the first release .

Anyways thanks all for your help!

[Forge]

note:

the dbl-brl shotgun & the Gatling gun do not switch out when empty

have not verified any other weapons yet.

[Danukem]

 Forge, on Feb 25 2011, 07:58 PM, said:

note:

the dbl-brl shotgun & the Gatling gun do not switch out when empty

have not verified any other weapons yet.

It's because of hacks I had to do on those weapons to make them work properly. With the gatling gun it makes sense, because it also has grenades and we don't want it switching away when out of bullets. I don't remember why it does that on the db shotgun, but there was a good reason. Probably not worth fixing. It's a bug that didn't bother anyone since the first release so it's not a high priority.

[Micky C]

I was wondering if it could somehow be worked in so that the player could switch between Jedrick and Duke in-game at will. Maybe as a pow ability, or at the start of each level or at check points, but different parts of the game are more fun with a specific character over another, and you can use certain strengths and weaknesses as they suit you, kind of like in Trine.

Also is that third playable character - the woman from the selection screen - going to make an appearance or is that idea out the window?

[Headless_Horseman]

I'm currently playing the first "new map" of the WGR1 episode, "Returning to Nature" and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed : as soon as you enter in the castle, any step you do you're in a middle of a crossfire and you probably get fragged in no time. So I do few step, sniper some enemies, save, do a few step... It's pretty boring and don't feel like I'm playing as Duke at all (and I'm playing with Duke, of course).
I don't know, is this the type of gameplay you wanted ? Or I'm supposing to waste my full-charged POW meter on some regular enemies ? I'm really close to the point when a difficult game becomes a frustraing game and you want to bash your head agains the monitor, you know, and I'm not a novice of Duke or WGR2.

[Forge]

This guy seems to be stuck in the rock so provides no suppressive fire and can't be damaged. It will come to life if the player passes a certain sector line though.

[The Commander]

I noticed in Medievil Cress that in the hallway just before the Cyberdemon on the cliff with the quad damage etc that there is a flame thrower ammo pickup, yet there is no flame thrower weapon in the map. (I looked in mapster)
I just find it a bit odd offering ammo for a weapon the player can't even get in the map, it may cause some players to spend time looking all around the map for it.
Maybe grenades or pipe bombs would suit instead.

[Danukem]

 The Commander, on Feb 26 2011, 07:33 AM, said:

I noticed in Medievil Cress that in the hallway just before the Cyberdemon on the cliff with the quad damage etc that there is a flame thrower ammo pickup, yet there is no flame thrower weapon in the map. (I looked in mapster)
I just find it a bit odd offering ammo for a weapon the player can't even get in the map, it may cause some players to spend time looking all around the map for it.
Maybe grenades or pipe bombs would suit instead.

I noticed that too, but you can get the weapon in the next level and then you will have more ammo for it. It's a little odd, though. I don't want to add other types of ammo because I think there is already too much.

[Danukem]

I have an idea for a new feature but I wanted to write about it before I start adding it. I'm not 100% sure it is a good idea.

The idea would be an optional, expert mode for using POW that you could turn on/off in the gametips/menu screen. In expert mode, you get to decide which powers get activated, you can turn them on or off at will, and the better ones drain your pow meter faster. It would be sort of like augs in Deus Ex.

Here's how the controls would work. To activate POW, you press the POW key, and then you must press additional keys for the POW you want to activate: forward=POW1, back=POW2, strafeleft=POW3, straferight=POW4, duck=POW5. You get about 1 second after pressing the POW key to input the first choice. Each choice you enter gives you an additional .3 second to enter the next one. You can wait for the window to end when you are done, or you can press jump to signal that you are done making choices. You can cancel all POWs at any time by pressing the POW key again, which will shut them all off.

Yes, it's a little complicated, and that's why I'm calling it the expert system. But it gives the player total flexibility, and it doesn't require me coding a whole new cumbersome menu. It also spares the player the need to go into a menu and decide which pows they want to turn on, or assign keys to all the different pows. If I add this I will probably lock the expert mode until the player has completed one of the big episodes. This will reward players and also prevent noobs from turning it on and then getting confused.

What about balance? Would it make the game too easy? As I said, the better powers would drain your meter faster. If you used all at once, you would have them for significantly less time than using them all at once in the old system. Also, the act of turning on a POW would drain a certain amount even if you only used it for a split second (to prevent the player from abusing the system by turning them on only at crucial moments).

[William Gee]

 Headless_Horseman, on Feb 26 2011, 06:11 AM, said:

I'm currently playing the first "new map" of the WGR1 episode, "Returning to Nature" and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed : as soon as you enter in the castle, any step you do you're in a middle of a crossfire and you probably get fragged in no time. So I do few step, sniper some enemies, save, do a few step... It's pretty boring and don't feel like I'm playing as Duke at all (and I'm playing with Duke, of course).
I don't know, is this the type of gameplay you wanted ? Or I'm supposing to waste my full-charged POW meter on some regular enemies ? I'm really close to the point when a difficult game becomes a frustraing game and you want to bash your head agains the monitor, you know, and I'm not a novice of Duke or WGR2.

You should have full pow the moment you go outside. I use my pow the moment I meet the wizard then run through the map killing all other enemies with it and go up to the cyber demon and kill him with the pow too. By the time that is finished you should have 200 health to help you kill anyone left over. Of cause if you dont use your pow it will be hard

You will have a fully charged pow again pretty soon after that so it isnt a waste. Be prepared to use your pow a number of times in each level.

[Danukem]

I use the same tactic as WG, but I also believe it is quite possible without using POW at all. Don't be afraid to play on POC or LR difficulties until you get a better hang of it.

[William Gee]

 DeeperThought, on Feb 26 2011, 12:17 PM, said:

I have an idea for a new feature but I wanted to write about it before I start adding it. I'm not 100% sure it is a good idea.

The idea would be an optional, expert mode for using POW that you could turn on/off in the gametips/menu screen. In expert mode, you get to decide which powers get activated, you can turn them on or off at will, and the better ones drain your pow meter faster. It would be sort of like augs in Deus Ex.

Here's how the controls would work. To activate POW, you press the POW key, and then you must press additional keys for the POW you want to activate: forward=POW1, back=POW2, strafeleft=POW3, straferight=POW4, duck=POW5. You get about 1 second after pressing the POW key to input the first choice. Each choice you enter gives you an additional .3 second to enter the next one. You can wait for the window to end when you are done, or you can press jump to signal that you are done making choices. You can cancel all POWs at any time by pressing the POW key again, which will shut them all off.

Yes, it's a little complicated, and that's why I'm calling it the expert system. But it gives the player total flexibility, and it doesn't require me coding a whole new cumbersome menu. It also spares the player the need to go into a menu and decide which pows they want to turn on, or assign keys to all the different pows. If I add this I will probably lock the expert mode until the player has completed one of the big episodes. This will reward players and also prevent noobs from turning it on and then getting confused.

What about balance? Would it make the game too easy? As I said, the better powers would drain your meter faster. If you used all at once, you would have them for significantly less time than using them all at once in the old system. Also, the act of turning on a POW would drain a certain amount even if you only used it for a split second (to prevent the player from abusing the system by turning them on only at crucial moments).

It does sound complicated, but there will be people who will like this and it will add more replay value, I just hope you keep normal mode in its current form.