[Forge]

Striker, on 09 February 2020 - 11:27 AM, said:

Seeing the position of the handle from the front of the ice bucket, I think it's meant to be round.

^this

[NightFright]

Bottle17-19 (#1164-1166) have been added to Github.

Regarding maphacks:
If Leo is willing to adjust all maphacks for the voxel pack, by all means, let him go ahead. I can help with testing if needed. Maybe Polymer lights can also be removed from the defs while we are at it since voxels won't work in Polymer, and I don't know if that will ever change. Anyway, it's definitely something that should be done before v1.3 release goes final.

[Kyanos]

Funny, I read his post like -willing to maintain a voxel pack that adheres to the current maphacks-

[Striker]

NightFright, on 10 February 2020 - 12:39 AM, said:

Bottle17-19 (#1164-1166) have been added to Github.

Regarding maphacks:
If Leo is willing to adjust all maphacks for the voxel pack, by all means, let him go ahead. I can help with testing if needed. Maybe Polymer lights can also be removed from the defs while we are at it since voxels won't work in Polymer, and I don't know if that will ever change. Anyway, it's definitely something that should be done before v1.3 release goes final.

Speaking of maphacks, did you see my notes regarding why the tweaks in those E4 maps didn't work? (They appear to be accidentally commented out in your commits)

BTW, I think you missed the two pots, unless Borion hasn't sent those to you yet.

[ReaperMan]

Fox, on 04 February 2020 - 04:06 AM, said:

IMHO you are going in the wrong direction with these sprites (including the "E pluribus, Nukem")

Even if they are used as wall aligned sprites, you will get an inconsistent look

Compare to this image:



Except in your case you are kinda of making only portions of the walls as voxels

You get the idea

Better idea.... voxel walls that are destructible. Like that voxelstein demo.

[Radar]

Photonic, on 10 February 2020 - 10:02 AM, said:

Funny, I read his post like -willing to maintain a voxel pack that adheres to the current maphacks-

His post is quite ambiguous, isn't it?

LeoD, on 08 February 2020 - 06:56 PM, said:

Rather than pleasing some hard core forum nerds, it has usually been my goal to act in favour of the actual (and casual) players of Duke Nukem 3D, and to keep things in a usable state.

How about a quality-oriented voxel pack instead of a minimum-effort HRP-mentality hodge podge?

[NightFright]

Striker, on 10 February 2020 - 07:53 PM, said:

Speaking of maphacks, did you see my notes regarding why the tweaks in those E4 maps didn't work? (They appear to be accidentally commented out in your commits)

BTW, I think you missed the two pots, unless Borion hasn't sent those to you yet.

I commented out those maphacks AFTER I added and tested them, but realized nothing I tried did the trick. If you remove the comment signs, you'll see absolutely nothing changes regarding voxel alignment ingame. I left the new lines in there anyway since I didn't want to lose the definitions. They had not been included before (in the HRP maphacks).
I uploaded all the voxels Borion has sent me so far. He probably isn't finished with the new ones just yet (or he forgot to send them to me).

[Striker]

NightFright, on 11 February 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

I commented out those maphacks AFTER I added and tested them, but realized nothing I tried did the trick. If you remove the comment signs, you'll see absolutely nothing changes regarding voxel alignment ingame. I left the new lines in there anyway since I didn't want to lose the definitions. They had not been included before (in the HRP maphacks).
I uploaded all the voxels Borion has sent me so far. He probably isn't finished with the new ones just yet (or he forgot to send them to me).

Ah, I see. I'll try to investigate further then.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 10 February 2020 - 12:39 AM, said:

Maybe Polymer lights can also be removed from the defs while we are at it since voxels won't work in Polymer, and I don't know if that will ever change.

Well, they don't hurt either, and you never know...
[Edit:]Or use the Polymost maphacks instead. That's what they're made for. The only other difference is the handling of the 603 hangbabe and the 407 fansprite in official maps iirc.

Photonic, on 10 February 2020 - 10:02 AM, said:

Funny, I read his post like -willing to maintain a voxel pack that adheres to the current maphacks-

This is correct. Fast and easy solution for the time being. I have one or two rough ideas to overcome this, but I'll think them through/implement them no sooner than when this is done.

So far I've found three voxmodels which need correction no matter what:
Pistol ammo and grow ammo need 90° rotation to the right. The neon cocktail should be moved down a bit (18 units iirc).

[Radar]

If you're going to suggest rotating the voxels anyway, why not rotate them to be accurate to the original art? I can write a batch script that edits the maphacks appropriately.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 11 February 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

I commented out those maphacks AFTER I added and tested them, but realized nothing I tried did the trick. If you remove the comment signs, you'll see absolutely nothing changes regarding voxel alignment ingame. I left the new lines in there anyway since I didn't want to lose the definitions.

Typo for E4L5? I don't know how to search for sprites, but you tried #83 while #830 actually is a 4443 US flag. Your E4L11 mhk change works for me.

@Borion
Do you really think Duke would say "Ahh, much better!" after peeing against that urine deflector?


[Edit:]

Radar 100 Watts, on 13 February 2020 - 11:30 AM, said:

If you're going to suggest rotating the voxels anyway, why not rotate them to be accurate to the original art?

That's what those three screenshots are about.

Radar 100 Watts, on 13 February 2020 - 11:30 AM, said:

I can write a batch script that edits the maphacks appropriately.

There's more to it. Like the instances not yet covered in mhk because they appear correctly when using the HRP models. Their sprite numbers need to be extracted from the maps and put into mhk with new angle (and, in rare cases offset). It is quite common that rotation and translation (like mdzoff + pitch) have been used together which can't be transferred on voxels so far. Most of Voxels4Maphacks is probably complete anyway. I think about learning how to rotate and move MD3s (should be lossless) and then batch-patch the MHKs one corrected model at a time from this perspective. But not yet.

[NightFright]

Well, I checked the map with Mapster and sprite ID was 83 there. Maybe 830 was the typo or it's just coincidence and both sprites are US flags.

[Borion]

LeoD, on 13 February 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

@Borion
Do you really think Duke would say "Ahh, much better!" after peeing against that urine deflector?
duke0001.jpg

True, I don't think he would be that optimistic after pissing on his shoes
Check my PM.

LeoD, on 13 February 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

That's what those three screenshots are about.

Grand!

[Tea Monster]

We had the same problems in the HRP with models with the wrong rotation. If you can fix it now on the original, that will be a LOT less hassle down the road.

[Radar]

LeoD, on 13 February 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

There's more to it. Like the instances not yet covered in mhk because they appear correctly when using the HRP models. Their sprite numbers need to be extracted from the maps and put into mhk with new angle (and, in rare cases offset). It is quite common that rotation and translation (like mdzoff + pitch) have been used together which can't be transferred on voxels so far. Most of Voxels4Maphacks is probably complete anyway. I think about learning how to rotate and move MD3s (should be lossless) and then batch-patch the MHKs one corrected model at a time from this perspective. But not yet.

>implying the voxels are made for the HRP maphacks
>implying maphacks for inconsistent art should be preserved, but the orientation of the original art shouldn't

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[Striker]

Keep in mind maphacks are going to be necessary for a lot of things, even if the rotation of all voxels are fixed to be front of voxel = front of actor. Mainly due to a lot of maps just not bothering to set up angles appropriately due to being 2d sprites.

[NightFright]

Well, if maphacks adjustment can be automated, I guess voxel realignment is doable. But still, as LeoD pointed out, there's still the matter of voxels that were facing in the right direction without hacks and may require some after the correction. I'm not sure if that can be automated as well. As far as the original episodes and expansions are concerned, I guess we can hardcore-playtest through those somehow.

[Borion]

@LeoD

I checked pissuar/urinal in SLAB6. It is facing front, so I think KVX has correct angle.

Cheers

[LeoD]

Borion, on 15 February 2020 - 02:42 AM, said:

I checked pissuar/urinal in SLAB6. It is facing front, so I think KVX has correct angle.

That shot was just for laughs. But, while I'm at it, lowering the front of the urinal make no sense in real life, even if the ART may imply that. The MD3's shape is more realistic.

On the faucet models (574, 670, 671):

670 needs to be moved down by 6 units.
As it seems, back in the 90's 3DRealms forgot to animate the open faucet. If you add tile0671 we can use this additional CON script to have the water animated:
 faucet2.zip (201bytes)
Number of downloads: 357
You can test this in E4L1 with models/voxels disabled, or use 0574 as placeholder for 0671 to check on KVX.
Faucet remark #3: The sprites shown in frontal (other than the chairs for example) have no depth information which gives you a certain freedom when creating the voxmodels. My point is here, that, when you look from the side, the outlet is currently way too short to actually reach the sink (compare to MD3). Here you can improve without sacrificing faith to the ART.

The geisha statue 753/869 needs a 90° left turn. Currently it faces into the same (wrong) direction as the MD3. Nice for existing MHKs, but not for the Voxel Pack. This is a textbook example where the MD3 modeller chose a "wrong" direction, because the sprite shows up only once in Atomic Edition (E3L1) -> maphacks avoided.Ooops, it's not. I missed the second instance in E3L1.

I have attached the mentioned KVX with the proposed changes applied.
 voxcorrections.zip (39.75K)
Number of downloads: 268

Btw., my work on that Voxels4Maphacks Pack actually constitutes a full review of all voxel models. I think that I'm 80% done, and some more correction requests may lie ahead.

[NightFright]

Leo, if we are really going to have separate maphacks for voxels, I think it makes sense to add you to the project on Github. But first we should probably have an overview of ALL voxels currently in the pack so that Borion knows how much work is coming his way. That's what currently seems to be in progress, so I'm just stating the obvious.

I don't know if other contributors used proper orientations, but if they didn't, we need to adjust their stuff, too.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 15 February 2020 - 07:11 AM, said:

Leo, if we are really going to have separate maphacks for voxels

I'm not working on maphacks. I'm working on some kind of override pack that has certain KVX rotated, moved, or scaled to match the current HRP MD3s, so that the players can get the best for now, fast.
Step 2: batch-modifying the HRP *.mhk to match the Voxel Pack models as-is, dispensing Voxels4Maphacks. At that point I might ask for repo access.
Step 3: profit correcting angle and origin of the HRP MD3s, + having the devs add full maphack support for KVX; then we can have one set of MHKs again.

NightFright, on 15 February 2020 - 07:11 AM, said:

But first we should probably have an overview of ALL voxels currently in the pack so that Borion knows how much work is coming his way. I don't know if other contributors used proper orientations, but if they didn't, we need to adjust their stuff, too.

Ideally, no work, if my corrected KVXes from above are accepted. I'm not reviewing Borion's work only, but the whole repo contents. I may have found one more really serious issue, but I need to check first that it's no brain fart. After the Sportschau...

[NightFright]

Excellent. Good to have people like you around who willingly dive into the middle of this monkey business. I used to be able to do detective tasks like this, too, but eventually I lost patience for that throughout the years.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 15 February 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

Excellent. Good to have people like you around who willingly dive into the middle of this monkey business. I used to be able to do detective tasks like this, too, but eventually I lost patience for that throughout the years.

In this case the hardest parts were:
- giving up on MagicaVoxel and Goxel, then finding out that SLAB6 is actually a Windows application and doesn't need DOSBox
- improving my mapping skills from zero to make that "comparison room"

For those who actually want to make Voxel models and not just fiddle around like me, Goxel seems a really good choice, and Guillaume is a helpful guy.

[Radar]

NightFright, please have some level of quality control instead of accepting members that want to contribute just for the sake of contributing. What LeoD is trying to do is retarded.

@LeoD
Check your PMs buddy.

[Jimmy]

Imagine actually giving priority to a dead unfinished project no one uses like the HRP.

[NightFright]

Well, I am not sure if all HRP models have correct dimensions, so it'd be better to actually use vanilla sprites for comparison. Anything in the HRP is rather inaccurate imitation and approximation. Quality standards in the community have risen and we should do our best to satisfy these expectations.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 15 February 2020 - 09:31 AM, said:

Well, I am not sure if all HRP models have correct dimensions, so it'd be better to actually use vanilla sprites for comparison.

I do. Front row, from left to right: original ART, current voxmodel, current HRP model, corrected voxmodel.

[LeoD]

Voxel Pack review completed. Correction requests:

4443_flag - 90° left; 4444_tripodcamera - 90° right; 4546_foodobject17 - 9 voxel forward, 2 voxel right


4547_foodobject18 - 9 forward, 2 right; 4548_foodobject19 - 90° left; 4569_jollymeal - 90° right; 4576_shoppingcart - 90° left


4438_coffeemug - 1 voxel forward (no pic)

Changed KVXes attached.

Attached File(s)

•  voxcorrections2.zip (24.45K)
  Number of downloads: 267

[Striker]

LeoD, on 16 February 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

Voxel Pack review completed. Correction requests:

4443_flag - 90° left; 4444_tripodcamera - 90° right; 4546_foodobject17 - 9 voxel forward, 2 voxel right
4443_flag-90.jpg 4444_tripodcamera+90.jpg 4546_foodobject17+9.jpg

4547_foodobject18 - 9 forward, 2 right; 4548_foodobject19 - 90° left; 4569_jollymeal - 90° right; 4576_shoppingcart - 90° left
4547_foodobject18-9+2.jpg 4569_jollymeal+90.jpg 4576_shoppingcart-90.jpg

4438_coffeemug - 1 voxel forward (no pic)

Changed KVXes attached.

So, does this make it so the part of the voxel that's "front facing" (for example, the front lens of the camera) is pointed towards the needle (actor front) in mapster32?

[NightFright]

That's a lot less than I thought. Weren't there also faucets, geisha statue, pistol ammo, grow ammo and neon cocktail sign from one of your posts above? Or is everything included in that last attachment?