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What do you think about 2 weapon system?  "Let's have our say..."

Poll: What weapon system you would like DNF to have? (81 member(s) have cast votes)

What weapon system you would like DNF to have?

  1. Old school, Duke can carry all the weapons. (47 votes [58.02%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.02%

  2. New 2 weapon system. (14 votes [17.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.28%

  3. You can choose it before game starts, with all weapons default on PC, and 2 weapons default on console for noobs. (20 votes [24.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.69%

Vote Guests cannot vote

User is offline   3dwizard 

#61

View PostAwesomebob, on Sep 6 2010, 11:07 PM, said:

I like the two weapon system, it adds a touch of realism as well as forcing the player to choose what weapons to take and what to leave behind. In Cod4 and Crysis it was a constant battle to pick between assault / sniper or assault / shotty or assault / splody-thing. I liked that.

Edit: As long as pistol and grenade / pipe bomb are in their own slots and not part of the two weapon system. This always made me wonder about CoD4; Why can't I sling a rifle, carry my assault and holster my pistol?

Why do you want "a touch of realism" in a sequel to Duke Nukem 3d if I may ask?
Also are you aware that DNF seems to be more arcade than DN3D? Why do you need such a limiting option at such an arcade game?
If anything, this 2 weapon system would have been better suited for DN3D which was already less arcade than this game...

This post has been edited by 3dwizard: 06 September 2010 - 10:26 PM

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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#62

View PostAwesomebob, on Sep 6 2010, 11:07 PM, said:

Edit: As long as pistol and grenade / pipe bomb are in their own slots and not part of the two weapon system. This always made me wonder about CoD4; Why can't I sling a rifle, carry my assault and holster my pistol?


The pistol isnt in its own slot. Its a two weapon limit. F*ck the two weapon limit. F*ck it hard in the eye sockets. :D
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User is offline   Green 

  #63

View PostCommando Nukem, on Sep 6 2010, 11:55 PM, said:

The pistol isnt in its own slot. Its a two weapon limit. F*ck the two weapon limit. F*ck it hard in the eye sockets. :D

1cock1eyesocket.com

This post has been edited by Mr. Green: 06 September 2010 - 11:18 PM

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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#64

View PostMr. Green, on Sep 7 2010, 12:18 AM, said:

1cock1eyesocket.com


AHHHH!!! That's the bottom line.
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User is offline   crunchysuperman 

  • Honored Donor

#65

Duke is supposed to be over-the-top ridiculous. I don't want realism! Big muscles, big explosions, big money, lots of women and . . . . oh, well just two guns. Huh?
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#66

I don't know what the big deal is. Maybe some of the weapons don't balance good on some of the levels or something. Definitely not the game breaker everyone is whining about. People act as if they played the game through and it sucks because of this....

where's the vote for: whatever is the most fun weapon system

?

This post has been edited by KO Gilligan: 07 September 2010 - 04:26 AM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#67

Yeah I'm just going to sit back and assume they know what they're doing with this
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#68

View PostKO Gilligan, on Sep 7 2010, 04:25 AM, said:

I don't know what the big deal is. Maybe some of the weapons don't balance good on some of the levels or something. Definitely not the game breaker everyone is whining about. People act as if they played the game through and it sucks because of this....

where's the vote for: whatever is the most fun weapon system

?

Yeah I don't see what the big deal is either.
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User is offline   dino 

#69

I don't care much about this limitation at this point. I'm thrilled to finally play the game and I'll be having more than enough fun shooting at everything alien-looking with no matter how many guns - hell even bare-handed is fine!

people weight this a bit too much I believe.
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#70

It's not going to be a gamebreaker for me as long as the game is properly balanced, but as someone's who has beaten Duke Nukem 3D multiple times, I can tell you the value of being able to rapidly and efficiently switch weapons as appropriate for the task. It's not infrequent where I would switch "shotgun, chaingun, shotgun, RPG, pistol, shrinker, devastator, shotgun, RPG, pipebomb" all within the course of a minute. It's one of those situation-specific skills that someone develops overtime as a result of having many weapons and being confronted with many different situations. I'm not saying that this alone will stop me from purchasing the game. Given today's propensity in modern FPSes towards the mediocre and the gray, other factors will definitely come into play that will make me not purchase Duke Nukem Forever.
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User is offline   Martin 

#71

View PostMr. Green, on Sep 5 2010, 01:48 AM, said:

Unfortunately it seems somewhat necessary to have the two weapon system in place in order to modernize Duke Nukem.
IMO, I don't agree with the decision but a majority of the gaming market these days is on consoles and the two weapon system is a convenience for the console gamers.


Excellent point, though as others have, I will mention the 'wheel' system used in some console FPS games, mainly older ones. It isn't as quick as numbers on a keyboard, but it's alright. It's not like everyone else playing won't be using the same system, so you would not be at a disadvantage using the wheel system ononline on the 360 version since all the other players in your game would be using it to.

View PostStrikerMan780, on Sep 5 2010, 02:01 AM, said:

Problem is, that was the PC version.

I'm just hoping it's an automatic thing either based on difficulty, or using a controller, or at least removed for the PC Version, and possibly kept for console versions.


If you're picking this up on PC, I really wouldn't worry too much. Think back to Doom 3. A lot of the old school Doom heads hated how the Cyberdemon was now completely invincible, with his one Achilles heel being the Soul Cube. They all felt it it just wasn't Doom-like for the Cyberdemon to have to be taken down like that. So anyway, the reason I bring this up is that only a few days after Doom 3 launched, there was already a mod to make the Cyberdemon killable by normal weaponry. I'm sure one of the very capable modders out their will quickly create a mod that returns Duke's weapon tardis to him.

View PostYou, on Sep 5 2010, 02:22 AM, said:

I usually don't like to get involved in these threads, espically drunk. But from reading Georges posts, I kinda understand where he is coming from.

When it comes to multiplayer, only being able to hold two guns at a time really adds to the strategy of the game. Knowing where a gun is, and how to use it effectively before it needs to be replaced/changed.

I'm all against this two gun thing, but if they do it right it should be absoloutly awesome.


Being drunk hasn't damaged your logic - that's a very good point as well. I think that perhaps it could/should have been confined to multiplayer, and not brought over to the main game as well. One idea I had for multiplayer, perhaps there could be a power-up in multiplayer that lets you hold any amount of guns, but also increases damage taken from other players or something to balance it out. Your armory would be more formidable than anyone else's, but you'd also be more vulnerable to damage. There's only be one of these in each game, so only one player can use it at a time. Perhaps they could even do it so that, once you pick it up, your character model turns into Duke. So you'd be the only Duke on the map, and the only guy that can carry all the weapons. Just a thought.

View PostDuduKrazy, on Sep 5 2010, 02:34 AM, said:

that makes sense for games that are supposed to be realistic (like the Call Of Duty series). but for games that have a more arcade gameplay, like Doom 3, it just doesn't look right for me.


The sprint was capped on Doom 3, but in fairness you do get a lot more sprint in Doom 3 than you get in COD without Marathon. I didn't find it a problem, since the space you're in is so confined anyway. I mainly used sprint to dodge fireballs at close range.
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User is offline   Alithinos 

#72

Modern day soldiers can carry equipment that weights 60 kilos.
A machine gun like AK47 weights only 5 kilos,while bigger weapons like grenade launchers weight around 10 ~ 15 kilos.

If the game would be realistic,it could let you carry 4 heavy weapons,or 12 machine guns. (without ammo weight included).

And since we're talking about Duke Nukem and not just any ordinary soldier,the weight limit should be higher.


So,IMHO the 2 weapon system is not realistic at all. It's just copying another game to make fans of that other game feel more comfortable with it.

This post has been edited by Alithinos: 10 September 2010 - 06:38 AM

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User is offline   crunchysuperman 

  • Honored Donor

#73

I'll hold my nose and hate it until a mod is made.
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User is offline   supergoofy 

#74

Duke should have full weapon arsenal, else is no Duke.

Though, for the newbies and console users, there should be a selection. (I vote this - the 3rd choice)

Though I do believe that the 2 weapon system is for sissies, unless it has higher difficulty.


It seems they are going to destroy the Duke franchise. I hope not.

This post has been edited by supergoofy: 10 September 2010 - 09:26 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#75

I think George's statements about health regen and limited weapon selections being regular FPS gameplay mechanics nowadays is unfounded. There are still plenty games around that don't have either and are plenty popular.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 10 September 2010 - 02:48 PM

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User is offline   NY00123 

#76

A bit late reply, yes I know, but I've thought about something to add...
Someone has already mentioned the ROTT case (where you can't carry all weapons at once). Another one I've got to think of is Duke Nukem II, where you basically use a single weapon at a time. If you get some weapon then you lose what you've just hold (unless it's the most basic weapon).
And of course there's no need to even mention Duke Nukem I (or Duke Nukum), where you carry the very same weapon all the time, possibly with a variable rate of shooting. (Well the maximal amount of shots displayed on screen is what varies...)

Now, I do agree that it's less annoying when you can carry all weapons. When you can't, though, it makes you think in a different way, giving a different touch. And DNF doesn't have to be a replica of DN3D, just like how DN3D isn't a replica of DN II.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#77

View PostNY00123, on Sep 21 2010, 05:56 AM, said:

Now, I do agree that it's less annoying when you can carry all weapons. When you can't, though, it makes you think in a different way, giving a different touch. And DNF doesn't have to be a replica of DN3D, just like how DN3D isn't a replica of DN II.


Nope. Its an evolution. So the weapon limit of 2 is a step backward.
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#78

View PostCommando Nukem, on Sep 21 2010, 03:58 PM, said:

Nope. Its an evolution. So the weapon limit of 2 is a step backward.


The logical progression of evolution, then, would be Duke Nukem firing four different weapons from his complete arsenal at the same time in DNF.

This post has been edited by The Mighty Bison: 22 September 2010 - 04:57 AM

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User is offline   Sebastian 

#79

You can carry 20-or-so-something weapons in Read Dead Redemption which you select with a selection wheel so saying the 2-weapon system is for "noob" console players only is just retarded trolling. Until you can actually get your hands on the game and try it for yourself, everyone would do well to reserve their final judgement until after they've played it.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#80

 

View PostRusty Nails, on Sep 22 2010, 06:37 AM, said:

You can carry 20-or-so-something weapons in Read Dead Redemption which you select with a selection wheel so saying the 2-weapon system is for "noob" console players only is just retarded trolling. Until you can actually get your hands on the game and try it for yourself, everyone would do well to reserve their final judgement until after they've played it.


Except we already know thats why it was done more or less, because of George's own words on the matter. They couldnt find a control scheme, that worked for consoles, so they chose to use a weapon limit.

Here's how it really works. The two weapon system sucks, period. There's nothing I need to see. Its a stupid ass shitty freaking limitation to put on players. The only time I accept that is in a shooter aiming for realism. Duke Nukem shouldnt be aiming for realism, and in many other aspects is obviously not aiming for realism. Does it ruin the whole game for me? No. But the arguement that we need to wait and see on that issue is just wrong. If ya know how you feel about that limit, then you know how you feel about it. Like it, hate it, or dont care. :)

View PostThe Mighty Bison, on Sep 22 2010, 05:57 AM, said:

The logical progression of evolution, then, would be Duke Nukem firing four different weapons from his complete arsenal at the same time in DNF.


Actually, thats very clearly not the logical progression. Since its insane.

Not knowing what forward is, does not mean that you do not know what backwards is. I dont know what the next step would be, or that there would even been to be a next step, but if we're going to play the game of "Well the side scrollers from the early 90s only had one gun at a time." while at the same time talk about how Duke cant be "stuck in the 90s" why go EVEN FARTHER BACK to try and validate your(their) opinion? Duke3D gave me freedom to do what I wanted, when I wanted. I want that same freedom in DNF, thats all im saying. Thats what made Duke3D so fucking great. The word "limit" should not even be something we have to bring up at all.

This post has been edited by Commando Nukem: 22 September 2010 - 12:46 PM

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User is offline   Honza 

#81

View PostCommando Nukem, on Sep 22 2010, 10:43 PM, said:

Except we already know thats why it was done more or less, because of George's own words on the matter. They couldnt find a control scheme, that worked for consoles, so they chose to use a weapon limit.

Here's how it really works. The two weapon system sucks, period. There's nothing I need to see. Its a stupid ass shitty freaking limitation to put on players. The only time I accept that is in a shooter aiming for realism. Duke Nukem shouldnt be aiming for realism, and in many other aspects is obviously not aiming for realism. Does it ruin the whole game for me? No. But the arguement that we need to wait and see on that issue is just wrong. If ya know how you feel about that limit, then you know how you feel about it. Like it, hate it, or dont care. :)



Actually, thats very clearly not the logical progression. Since its insane.

Not knowing what forward is, does not mean that you do not know what backwards is. I dont know what the next step would be, or that there would even been to be a next step, but if we're going to play the game of "Well the side scrollers from the early 90s only had one gun at a time." while at the same time talk about how Duke cant be "stuck in the 90s" why go EVEN FARTHER BACK to try and validate your(their) opinion? Duke3D gave me freedom to do what I wanted, when I wanted. I want that same freedom in DNF, thats all im saying. Thats what made Duke3D so fucking great. The word "limit" should not even be something we have to bring up at all.


They couldnt find a control scheme, that worked for consoles, so they chose to use a weapon limit.
- Confirmed by GB himself

That is the only true and real answer for this topic.
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User is offline   Sebastian 

#82

View PostCommando Nukem, on Sep 22 2010, 01:43 PM, said:

Except we already know thats why it was done more or less, because of George's own words on the matter. They couldnt find a control scheme, that worked for consoles, so they chose to use a weapon limit.


Fair enough, but the fact that the topic starter referred to console players as noobs is just insulting.
I get that people doesn't like it because it's not like the old days but people are freaking out a little too much. Like I said, reserving judgement until you can actually get your hands on it and play doesn't really take that much energy.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#83

When I think about it every now and then it leaves a bad taste in my mouth but generally I'm over it.
0

#84

I hate the two weapon system but that is not what I am afraid of for this game. In Duke 3d you would need to have the RPG or pipe bomb to blow up secret walls, so are they going to have secrets? I found the destroying wall mechanic in Duke 3d great and I don't want to see it go. You would also have times where you had to shoot the buttons and if you only have the shrinker and freezer you could not shoot the button. I think this one little change will massively effect gameplay.

This post has been edited by Mr. Universe: 22 September 2010 - 07:14 PM

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User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#85

View PostMr. Universe, on Sep 22 2010, 08:09 PM, said:

I hate the two weapon system but that is not what I am afraid of for this game. In Duke 3d you would need to have the RPG or pipe bomb to blow up secret walls, so are they going to have secrets? I found the destroying wall mechanic in Duke 3d great and I don't want to see it go. You would also have times where you had to shoot the buttons and if you only have the shrinker and freezer you could not shoot the button. I think this one little change will massively effect gameplay.




Do we have confirmation that there will be cracks and shootable buttons? In any event, there are solutions...

They could make it so that buttons can be activated by any weapon. Or, they can make sure that there is a pistol or shotgun available nearby wherever there is a need to shoot buttons. As for cracks: if it leads to a secret, then the player just has to plan ahead and bring an explosive. Or, they can put explosives in the environment (such as explosive canisters) that the player can pick up and place in front of the crack before using bullets.

In the hundreds of Duke 3D maps I have played, I have gotten stuck plenty of times because I had no explosives left for a crack or because I had no bullets for the buttons. It's partly a level design issue and partly a player planning issue and shit can happen regardless of how many weapons you can carry.

By the way, I'm not feeling too good about this game, mostly based on other stuff I have heard.
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User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#86

View PostDeeperThought, on Sep 23 2010, 04:02 PM, said:

By the way, I'm not feeling too good about this game, mostly based on other stuff I have heard.

IMO this game is going to do what Doom3 and Quake4 did for there counter parts.
As in everything all scripted and play nothing like the originals. :)
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User is offline   Alithinos 

#87

Since they're going to give only 2 slots for weapons I hope they make it like crysis where the handgun,rocket launcher and small things that you can't shoot with (grenades,mines,etc) have their own slots and then let you choose between 2 general weapons only.

Crysis was like this:

1 pistol slot (pistol or twin pistols),2 general slots (have to choose 2 between ak47,scar,sniper,chaingun,shotgun,freeze ray rifle) ,1 rocket launcher slot (rocket launcher) ,1 grenade slot,1 other slot (mines,bug,remote controlled bomb)

I'd Like Duke Nukem Forever to be like this:

1 pistol slot (glock,desert eagle,golden gun),2 general slots (shotgun,chaingun,shrinker,sniper,freezer) 1 heavy weapon slot (rpg,devastator) 1 grenade slot (pipebomb) 1 other slot (lazer tripbomb,something else).

So the player can carry basic weapons like a pistol,pipebomb and rocket launcher all the time and can use his brain and tactics to choose for the 2 guns that are at the "general slots".

If they do it 2 slots included for pipe bombs,lazer tripbombs,pistol etc I'm afraid it's gonna be a pain in the ass.
(imagine carrying a shotgun expecting to find just some pig cops and pipe bombs for secrets,and suddenly seeing behind a corner a big fat boss like Battlelord)

This post has been edited by Alithinos: 22 September 2010 - 11:47 PM

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User is offline   BugsBunny 

#88

This is the review by roushimsx who was one of the guys who played the game with Dognose in Gearbox yesterday. Clearly he is not happy

Quote

Which brings up the point that you can't carry every weapon. While I don't always disagree with the weapon carrying limitations of most games, one of the things I always loved about Duke 3D was that you were Duke Nukem, you had every weapon available to you (assuming you found them of course), and you were going to use them to blow. ****. up. The initial feeling of having to swap weapons in and out left me with a bit of a sour taste, but perhaps I'll feel differently after playing through the whole game.

After reading this review, I have no doubt in my mind that the 2 weapon system is farked and will destroy the game in the PC version :).

Source : Source: http://www.shacknews...?root=24069341#

This post has been edited by BugsBunny: 23 September 2010 - 02:24 AM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#89

View PostBugsBunny, on Sep 23 2010, 02:13 PM, said:

After reading this review, I have no doubt in my mind that the 2 weapon system is farked and will destroy the game in the PC version :).


Then it'll destroy the game on consoles also. It's not about buttons, it's about feeling.
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User is offline   Green 

  #90

It appears no one is happy with the 2 weapon system. Not the press, not the people who were at PAX, not the fans.
The majority wants it changed to a weapon wheel and in my opinion, it needs to be.

I would much prefer the weapon selection as it was in the 2008 Jace Hall footage.
Posted Image

Thread about the 2 weapons vs. weapons wheel over at Gearbox Forums:
http://gbxforums.gea...ad.php?t=110072
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