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Exploring Duke Nukem 3D XBLA

User is offline   TerminX 

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  #31

Uhh... no, we really wouldn't, since the XBLA version of Duke doesn't have in-game joining. EDuke32, however, does have in-game joining.

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User is offline   NUKEMDAVE 

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#32

View PostTX, on Jun 13 2010, 03:07 AM, said:

Uhh... no, we really wouldn't, since the XBLA version of Duke doesn't have in-game joining. EDuke32, however, does have in-game joining.


Do you mean the joining part of Duke3D XBLA isn't actually in-game? Wait a minute, I remember now when you join a game in Duke3D XBLA, text comes on the screen that says "Downloading" or something like that. Well, what I really meant was the code for the Dukematch Lobby layout and stuff like that you could probably use in the future, if it's in there.
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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #33

I mean that the networking code in XBLA Duke is just as it was in DOS in 1996. It still goes out of sync and you still have to have every player present at startup... because it's the same code.

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #34

If you're going to sit here and circle jerk about how awesome the eye candy and "improvements" of the XBLA version would be awesome in EDuke32 or the HRP, go back to the DNF forum.

This is for valid research and discussion about the files themselves. We are still searching for Critical Mass, the quotes, and a way to get to the font data.

I've said it once, and I'll say it once more:

View PostHendricks266, on Jun 9 2010, 01:39 PM, said:

The Nuke icons and font should not be used for the HRP. Again, the HRP's intent is not to look cool for cool's sake. It's to provide modern remakes of the art, faithful to the originals. However, the logos and background from the UI are certainly usable.

That being said, I will create a mod which makes brings the XBLA menu changes (nuke icon, font, logos, background, movies if possible) to EDuke32.

@TX:
Did you deduce this from observation or from having the source?
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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#35

View PostTX, on Jun 9 2010, 01:02 AM, said:

Since it's clear that the XBLA version of Duke is based on GPL'd code from sources outside of 3DR I've sent George Broussard an e-mail asking for my copy of the source code as per the terms of the GPL. It looks like the vast majority of the JFDuke3D code is present in the XBLA port including some I'd written and contributed to JonoF, so I hope he doesn't try to weasel out of his legal requirement to release it.


I missed this post until now. Man, that's really...aggravating, to say the least.


@Hendricks266: While I think most of us agree with you in principle that the HRP's purpose is not to look cool for cool's sake, and that it should remain faithful to the original art, there's a lot of room for debate about what crosses the line into being unacceptable.

Duke 3D XBLA is not some random source of cool stuff, it's a an official port of Duke Nukem 3D. And while faithfulness to the original is a guiding principle, it doesn't require that the HRP consist of exact duplicates of the tiles but in higher res. Moreover, one of the reasons that we desire faithfulness is because we think that the original tiles look good. In rare cases where they don't --that ugly red font, for example-- the case for faithfulness weakens somewhat.
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User is offline   NUKEMDAVE 

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#36

View PostHendricks266, on Jun 9 2010, 02:39 PM, said:

That being said, I will create a mod which makes brings the XBLA menu changes (nuke icon, font, logos, background, movies if possible) to EDuke32.


No one will be interested. Yeah, they'll check it out, but 80% of the Duke3D XBLA players only play it to rank up on the Dukematch, single player and time trials leaderboards. Just saying. Not that I'm against seeing the XBLA stuff in EDuke. I look forward to it. :)

View PostHendricks266, on Jun 13 2010, 02:34 PM, said:

If you're going to sit here and circle jerk about how awesome the eye candy and "improvements" of the XBLA version would be awesome in EDuke32 or the HRP, go back to the DNF forum.


What good would that do? :)
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User is offline   Tetsuo 

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#37

In my opinion the thing the HRP sorely needs the most is the higher resolution FMV cut scenes (but please.. *not WMV format!)... that's the one thing that has always lagged behind in my opinion. I agree the other stuff should be considered official high res versions and should be included in the HRP. That new layered duke screen looks great... kind of makes it seem like they intended on making that screen more resolution independent with the background stretching but the foreground staying the same size.

*I use a non-microsoft system and while I do have the WMV codecs installed I think games should avoid those if at all possible.

--Tetsuo

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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

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#38

Cinepack AVI would be an acceptable first step.

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User is offline   SwissCm 

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#39

View PostCommando Nukem, on Jun 14 2010, 12:39 PM, said:

Cinepack AVI would be an acceptable first step.

OGG Theora is more likely, or perhaps the VP8-derived codec that was recently open sourced by Google.
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User is offline   Fox 

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#40

View PostSwissCm, on Jun 13 2010, 02:20 AM, said:

The current big red font is fucking awful. I tried remaking it into something more pleasant but it's rather difficult considering the original font looked crap too.

It may require a bit of work but using the XBLA port's font as a replacement would be a fine idea.
If that is the case, it would not be big deal to replace the spinning nuke icon, as it is also part of the menu.
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User is offline   Night Wolf 

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#41

View PostDeeperThought, on Jun 14 2010, 05:10 AM, said:

Duke 3D XBLA is not some random source of cool stuff, it's a an official port of Duke Nukem 3D. And while faithfulness to the original is a guiding principle, it doesn't require that the HRP consist of exact duplicates of the tiles but in higher res. Moreover, one of the reasons that we desire faithfulness is because we think that the original tiles look good. In rare cases where they don't --that ugly red font, for example-- the case for faithfulness weakens somewhat.


Well said
.......
I think there's a reason XBLA duke changed the fonts and the spinning symbol ... because they looked like shit..., besides the actual game is what's important, the menu/ fonts should look better if possible.

This post has been edited by ozz: 14 June 2010 - 01:14 AM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #42

View PostDeeperThought, on Jun 13 2010, 02:10 PM, said:

@Hendricks266: While I think most of us agree with you in principle that the HRP's purpose is not to look cool for cool's sake, and that it should remain faithful to the original art, there's a lot of room for debate about what crosses the line into being unacceptable.

Duke 3D XBLA is not some random source of cool stuff, it's a an official port of Duke Nukem 3D. And while faithfulness to the original is a guiding principle, it doesn't require that the HRP consist of exact duplicates of the tiles but in higher res. Moreover, one of the reasons that we desire faithfulness is because we think that the original tiles look good. In rare cases where they don't --that ugly red font, for example-- the case for faithfulness weakens somewhat.

You have a strong point.

Even if I was/we were to attempt this, there are still technical issues with adding the nuke icons and font to the HRP. The first thing is that the sizes of the new stuff do not match the 8-bit tiles' sizes, so the nuke would be small (possibly elliptical) and the font would look squished and shitty.

Disregard that, I just remembered setuptilerange.

View PostSwissCm, on Jun 13 2010, 11:11 PM, said:

OGG Theora is more likely, or perhaps the VP8-derived codec that was recently open sourced by Google.

Bingo.
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User is offline   Rellik 

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#43

Does the new menu font directly replace the red-font sprites completly, even for in-game sprites, or is it used just for the menu?
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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #44

Just for the menu in XBLA Duke.

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User is offline   ReaperMan 

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#45

I've noticed that Duke 3D on xbla has slightly different sounding music. Someone should look into this to see if i'm correct, but i'm sure its different.
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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #46

It's different due to the GM.DLS file included in the game. You can overwrite the gm.dls in c:\windows\system32\drivers with the one found in XBLA Duke to make the MIDIs rendered by Windows sound as they do on XBLA.

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#47

View PostHendricks266, on Jun 8 2010, 03:18 PM, said:

Looks like they used JFDuke3D (or JFBuild, or something) as a base.


That explains why it plays back the MIDI files incorrectly. It's not taking into account the custom EMIDI format. Which incidentally (once again) EDuke32 doesn't support yet either. The result is either incorrect or doubled instruments playing when they're not supposed to because multiple channels are used for different instruments for the different sound devices used by the original DOS engine. Any engine or MIDI player that doesn't know what an EMIDI file is will just play all the channels including the incorrect ones. Which also means they don't loop the MIDI files at their proper loop points either, among other such EMIDI-related problems.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 June 2010 - 02:39 PM

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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #48

midi.c says you're confused.

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#49

Then why does it still play the wrong instruments and ignore custom loop points? Maybe it's not implemented properly?

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 June 2010 - 04:04 PM

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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #50

It shouldn't be doing either of those things on Windows. If you're a Mac or Linux user you're pretty much SOL however.

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User is offline   Tetsuo 

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#51

@TX: Hmmmmm well as far as the MIDI goes I haven't noticed anything unusual and I'm a Mac user.... I don't feel SOL on that front. The music sounds as good as any other application that uses MIDI.

The graphical front is a different story however. :) I've sent you (and the one who compiles the mac builds) an e-mail about it but not sure you received or read it.

--Tetsuo

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. -- Alex Delarge, A Clockwork Orange

This post has been edited by Tetsuo: 15 June 2010 - 08:16 PM

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#52

Specifically, does STALKER loop all the way back to the beginning (with an abrupt drum beat ending) or does it keep playing continuously (with the drum beat continuing)?

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 June 2010 - 10:21 PM

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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #53

It loops on Windows but not on Linux or Mac. The code for Windows actually handles all of the EMIDI commands but on Linux and Mac the .mid is just handed off to SDL_mixer.

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#54

Ah, I see. I guess I am confused. Any particular reason why it's just handed off to SDL_mixer on non-Windows OS's? (I have no idea what entails here...)

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 16 June 2010 - 07:42 AM

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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #55

SDL_mixer is the easiest way to play MIDI on those platforms. The MIDI situation on Linux is just awful, and I don't have any Macs so it's not like I'm going to be writing an implementation for the OS X MIDI API any time soon.

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #56

I encoded the movies as Theora here. I also included a batch file to extract the frames of the movies since they can run over 100mb each with lossless png.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

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#57

Is it just me or does this look like they had the access to the original models to you as well?

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This post has been edited by Daedolon: 18 June 2010 - 05:28 AM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #58

It does. You can notice a black outline on everything. If it was developed in-house, I don't see why they wouldn't.

They also forgot to color the trooper properly. Posted Image
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User is offline   Fox 

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#59

I have created an Png file with the XBLA font in yellow and black outline... it seems that it glow in the main menu from orange to yellow, not possible to recreat in Eduke32... the one seen in-game is always yellow by the way...



However, I don't know how to match the size to be used in HRP.



http://img88.imagesh...17/xblafont.png

This post has been edited by Fox: 18 June 2010 - 11:41 AM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

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  #60

I was sure that the letters have details like the Duke Nukem logo.
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