[Lunick]

I have missed seeing that Dark Side demo. Someone remake it

[Jblade]

Quote

I can't find anything that would specifically support this idea. There are three defined rocket types, and they're all accounted for by what's in the finished game. However, it does look like the heat-seeker card was a late addition.

It must not of even made it that far then, I can't find the link but I definitely remember reading they planned for a multi-missile mode. It was in that old Q&A with George before the game got rebooted with Lo Wang in it. Just found the line that described what they had planned for it on SW central:

Quote

We decided to try a rail gun as in Eraser. Look pretty cool, but still working on art for the gun and the smoke effect. Will be hard to pull off well. Current weapons lineup: Sword, shurikens (will likely be dropped in favor of high tech fun weapon), 4 barrell riot chotgun, Rocket launcher with single/mass firings and possibly a heat seeker option, grenade launcher, sticky proximety mines that stick to walls, floors ceiling and go off when something is near, and a few more weapons we are working on.

I'm going to take a guess and say they decided to go with a Nuke instead of the mass-firing mode as a high-powered attack. The latter would of been cool, but I think the Nuke was a good choice and one of the things everybody remembers about SW (not to mention a bit more balanced due to the Nuke being hidden)

Neat info about the flashbang + Nuke, that seems like a typical cool idea but I wonder why they removed it. Does the flashbang accomplish anything in singleplayer? I know it can blind you if you're facing it but I've never noticed it having any effect on enemies (nor the Stealth bomb, but that gives you a super-charged punching attack so it still has utility in SP)

[NNC]

Plagman, on 26 April 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Yeah that Darkside demo is iconic. In fact it's how most people got introduced to the game, since they had the demo loop on computers at tons of retail stores.

It's also a well put together gameplay, except for the last moments when the player was clearly tanking (should have ended there like th V1.5 demos)... I for example always fascinated how he explodes that wall next to the opening station with throwing the pipebomb into the shuttle itself. I tried it all the times when I played DS, and only succeeded twice out of 100 or so.

[MrFlibble]

James, on 26 April 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

I've never noticed it having any effect on enemies (nor the Stealth bomb, but that gives you a super-charged punching attack so it still has utility in SP)

IIRC the smoke bomb does work kinda similar to partial invisibility in Doom, i.e. the monsters either miss you more and/or attack you less frequently. They also seem to tend to run away when the player who is using the smoke bomb and the fists approaches them.

[Micky C]

I also recall the enemies attacking less frequently when using the smoke bomb, so it's not completely useless.

[mxrtxn]

Shadow Warrior misterious non-official secret area (Level 18)

This unused secret area I first discovered using the swghost mode on Level 18 Floating Fortess

There are some items in the red chamber nevetheless there was no way to get them without using cheats...
Well that chamber is connected to the secret place. First you gotta open the secret area using the computer:



Now using the railgun you shoot to the red chamber exactly where the yellow aim is pointing. Shoot and you will hear a sound and see that a new opening just opened in the secret area:



once you enter the red chamber get out quick! your heatlh will drop quickly, return crouching

Here´s a view inside the red chamber



P.S. This secret passage IS NOT even listed in the official secret areas thread of the 3DRealms site:

http://www.3drealms....w/secret18.html

Martin

[Marphy Black]

Great find! This isn't mentioned in the official strategy guide book either. Looking into it further, it seems the button for that secret panel is actually this nuke symbol above the power switch. The railgun just happens to trigger it with its splash damage. Also, you can't get trapped in the red chamber as this switch can open up the panel from the inside.

[Jimmy]

[Daedolon]

No cheating on my watch.

[OpenMaw]

Got a misc topic question.

Duke Nukem Advance. On several occasions i've heard that DNA was changed around/due to September 11th.

Question: What was changed, exactly? Was it simply a matter of toning the violence down from a M to an T? Or was the city location originally going to be New York? I've tried to find details on this, but I haven't been able to turn up any information on this beyond "Things changed after 9/11" and as a result the game was improved and had multiplayer added.


EDIT: M and T were backwards... Brain fart.

[Jblade]

...holy shit that game is 12 years old already, that makes me feel really fucking old. I remember getting it on my GBA (the first model) and loving it to bits. As a side note, was the Golden deagle ever located in game, or just via the cheat code? I've looked high and low and never found an answer.

[OpenMaw]

It's been a long time since I actually played it, but I swear the "special" variants of the guns were found within the game or were unlocked by doing certain things. Like the quad cannon.

[Jblade]

Nah the quad cannon was definitely in the base game, it was just the Gold Deagle that I never saw. It probably is just a cheat only weapon, since it did as much damage as a shotgun blast whilst still only using pistol ammo.

[MrFlibble]

In order not to flood the beta thread with off-topic material, I'll just put this here:

Yause, on 18 April 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

https://groups.googl...e3d/-G79G_vryJg (old 3DR interview with Geoff Keighley)

JIC, here's the original page of this interview (Wayback Machine copy). It was published on Oct 28, 1996, according to this page.

[MrFlibble]

This is from the Doom corner thread discussion but I suppose it belongs here.

Cage, on 03 May 2014 - 12:17 AM, said:

Comparison:


Take note the recon car is scaled differently in Duke3d sprite - I suspect those sprites were rendered in standard 4:3 resultion and this one was scaled to work better in 320x200 which isn't 4:3

Fox, on 07 May 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

Compare the Octabrain colors to this image:

The PC version sprites were definitely created with the 4:3 aspect ratio in mind - that is, they are all shrunk down vertically a bit (I don't know the proper term for this) so that they are stretched back to their intended dimensions when a 320x200 image is displayed on a 4:3 screen.

However I'm not sure what happens to the PS version of the game, since the sprites that you have provided except the RPV have the same proportions as the PC version ones. Moreover, the game appears to be more or less identical to the PC version in this video, however in this one the monster sprites seem to get stretched vertically even further compared to their PC counterparts. I can't tell but the second video may be authentic footage of the game being played on the console, while the first one might be recorded from an emulator. I'm not sure in either case though.

[Fox]

Yes, the sprites were created with non-square pixels in mind.

The aspect ratio is fucked up in Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown and Duke Nukem 64, don't bother with it.

[MrFlibble]

Also I've just noticed that in this video the word "Armor" on the HUD is spelled the British way, "Armour", suggesting a UK/European release. Now that's very considerate of the developers to care for such details in overseas releases - I wonder if the same was done for the PC version? I'm only aware of the various censorship-related changes like a non-removable Parental Lock in the Australian (?) version and the infamous darts in the UK Shadow Warrior release.

[Plagman]

I think I played PC builds of Duke3D that said ARMOUR...

[Jimmy]

MrFlibble, on 08 May 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

This is from the Doom corner thread discussion but I suppose it belongs here.


The PC version sprites were definitely created with the 4:3 aspect ratio in mind - that is, they are all shrunk down vertically a bit (I don't know the proper term for this) so that they are stretched back to their intended dimensions when a 320x200 image is displayed on a 4:3 screen.

However I'm not sure what happens to the PS version of the game, since the sprites that you have provided except the RPV have the same proportions as the PC version ones. Moreover, the game appears to be more or less identical to the PC version in this video, however in this one the monster sprites seem to get stretched vertically even further compared to their PC counterparts. I can't tell but the second video may be authentic footage of the game being played on the console, while the first one might be recorded from an emulator. I'm not sure in either case though.

And don't forget that the Duke3D sprites were touched up by hand while the TM sprites seemed to have just been dumped and then had their colour depth decreased to whatever the limitations were. This would be why they're closer to true-colour than Duke3D's.

[OpenMaw]

It also explains why Duke's pants are so screwed up.

[Fox]

Each set of sprites has it's own 4-bits palette. The result doesn't look so good for Duke sprites.

[MrFlibble]

Well, if the PS version sprites are indeed "overstretched" vertically when run on a real console, then this probably means that the game code does some 4:3 aspect correction (perhaps similar to what the PC version does for 4:3 high-res modes), but the result is further stretched when displayed on an actual TV screen.

I suppose that the PS version screenshots at MobyGames have been taken in an emulator and thus represent the "raw" image, prior to it having been stretched to fit the TV screen dimensions. The monster sprites appear to be already aspect-corrected, like these Octabrains here:


Here's a shot of a Pig Cop from the PS version:

And here's a shot from the PC version in 640x480 mode for comparison:


And just to be sure, another shot in the 640x400 mode, which shows non-corrected sprites:


I think it's safe to assume that the monster sprites in the PS version are already stretched to proper dimensions (note though that the HUD and weapons are not). The aspect ratio of the PS screenshots, however, is not 4:3, and the image is probably further stretched to fit the 4:3 TV screen, thus creating the effect of "overstretched" sprites.

[High Treason]

What about 720x576 (5:4) in PAL versions? Many console games were developed primarily for PAL resolutions and then just cropped, scaled or altered in some other way when running in NTSC modes.

As that aspect is taller than 4:3 it would theoretically not stretch the sprites as much.

[MrFlibble]

Actually I have no idea about the consoles in general, so I'd welcome a (brief) explanation of the resolutions.

[Fox]

Doom



Screen size: 320 × 200

Everything is rendered with a 1:1 pixel ratio, as a result it is made taller using an old monitor with non-square pixels. Wall textures are not the same as in floors, and the automap is distorted.

Some of the artwork was created with non-square pixels in mind (note the fat face of the player).


Duke Nukem 3D



Screen size: 320 × 200

The level structure (such as walls or "flat" sprites) was shortened to compensate for non-square pixels. However, game sprites or HUD sprites have a 1:1 ratio.

The artwork for enemies was created with non-square pixels in mind. This is also true for the loading screen (note the oval nuke symbol), but the title screen looks stretched compared to the box art.


Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown



Screen size: 320 × 214

The level structure has a 1:1 ratio and game sprites are narrowed, mimicking the DOS game with an old monitor. However, the HUD has a 1:1 ratio, so it looks shortened in relation to the level structure or game sprites.

Like the PC version, artwork for enemies was shortened. However, screens or videos ignore any possible distortion (note the circular nuke symbol in the loading screen)


Duke Nukem 64



Screen size: 276 × 208

Everything is rendered with a 1:1 pixel ratio, so game sprites are too wide and HUD sprites too short.

The new artwork ignore any possible distortion (note the circular nuke symbol in the main menu)


Duke Nukem 3D (Sega Saturn)



Screen size: 320 × 240, 320 × 256

Everything is rendered with a 1:1 pixel ratio, so game sprites are too wide and HUD sprites too short. Some backgrounds were made taller (such as the loading screen).

[MrFlibble]

Thanks for the explanation!

Fox, on 10 May 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Duke Nukem 3D

<...>

the title screen looks stretched compared to the box art.

I never noticed that before, interesting. It is my understanding that in Doom, conversely, it is the aspect-corrected version of the title screen that matches the box art.

Fox, on 10 May 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Doom

<...>

the automap is distorted.

I've read about the automap distortion here but I did not realise that it is also true for the vanilla game.

[Fox]

define GRAVITATIONALCONSTANT 176

This value is used for the gravitational acceleration, and the terminal velocity is set at 6144.

In the real world, the gravitational acceleration is 9.8 m/s² and the terminal velocity for a person in freeflying position is of 320 km/h.

If we assume that a 32px texture (8192 z units) equals 1 meters, the real world figures would be translated as of:

9.8 m/s² = 2676.053
320 km/h = 24272.592

So Duke 3D is quite not right.

[High Treason]

Probably not the most interesting find and it'll likely be irrelevant soon, but whilst referencing the in-game MIDI files for volume levels I discovered that some have a copyright date of 1995 - most are 1996. The ones labelled 1995 are;

Spoiler

Ahgeez
Dethtoll
Gotham
Grabbag
Snake
Stalker
Streets
Thecall
Watrwld
Whomp
Xplasma - Which we already knew was old because of the video TX posted.

Most of the oldest MIDI's appear to be Bobby Prince's and are for Episode 1, this kinda implies that many weren't done until after the shareware was already out. Unfortunately I can't presently check if the file dates reflect the markers. This was from the Atomic GRP also, 1.3D may be different though I doubt it.

The MIDI information is written in markers, which is unusual, possibly the MIDI format used didn't support the metadata I usually find, but Inhiding has no markers of info! Invader also has none as well as Lordofla and Spook too.

Streets contains some weird markers like "Move the Open HiHat in from far right" or "Randomize Chinese Cymbal placement" and similar, presumably Bobby altered these things and left the markers behind.

[Player Lin]

Off topic but have to say...

 MrFlibble, on 10 May 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

wiki link from doom.wikia.com

Please don't use any link from that long dead wikia site since the most of DooM communities had been abandoned that site years ago and move to their own made one -- doomwiki.org. Due wikia.com still try make their sites appeared on first/second of result in google search, so it still to hard to avoid if users just use the search engine and found the wikia one.

Use this one instead, please.

[MrFlibble]

 High Treason, on 12 May 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

The MIDI information is written in markers, which is unusual, possibly the MIDI format used didn't support the metadata I usually find, but Inhiding has no markers of info! Invader also has none as well as Lordofla and Spook too.

Not sure, but IIRC the MIDIs of Booby Prince's music in ROTT don't have any copyright information for some reason, while Lee Jackson's do.