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I'm unsure if these have been in the thread yet, but contrary to at least some beliefs (don't want to say popular) the game actually got a proper retail release. Anyway:
The Supreme Topic of Miscellaneous Knowledge "Trivia, Research, etc."
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#680 Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:47 AM
Really cool information, thanks for sharing! But why does everything have to be The Legend of Seven something?
I'm unsure if these have been in the thread yet, but contrary to at least some beliefs (don't want to say popular) the game actually got a proper retail release. Anyway:
I'm unsure if these have been in the thread yet, but contrary to at least some beliefs (don't want to say popular) the game actually got a proper retail release. Anyway:
This post has been edited by Daedolon: 30 August 2013 - 10:52 AM
- Let's go Brandon!
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#681 Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:02 PM
I'm not even sure it's a proper release. More likely just one of the high end Asian bootlegs.
#682 Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:13 PM
Hendrick's site for the Shadow Warrior beta mentions that there are a lot of unused levels hidden in the beta, so I decided to check them out.
The first one I checked out was Boss2.map.
I found something very interesting in the distance: The Lava Boss sprite in the beta's files.
Turns out the Lava Boss is mostly functional in the beta! He has no animations, so he just slides on the ground. His only attack is to throw one or two lava rocks at you at a time. If they hit you, you're instantly killed. However, his hitbox is extremely wonky, as most projectiles simply fly through him. To take him out, you need to enter God mode and hack him to death with the sword.
I decided to look at Tank.map. I knew something was up when I saw this:
This looks very similar to this:
A level shown in a pre-release screenshot on the SW site back in March 1996.
Looking a bit further, I found that the level matches other parts of the same level seen in pre-releases. Turns out that Tank.map has been shown in several pre-release screenshots! In fact, all of the images featuring the player using a tank come from this level!
To drive the point home, I “remade” several pre-release screenshots taken in tank.map.
There are more instances where pre-release screenshots match tank.map, but I couldn't make an exact remake because of various issues.
Up next is Combat3.map.
I knew something was up as soon as I loaded this map. The first area in this map is a direct match for a location shown in a screenshot made in 1995. Check it:
The architecture and prop layout in the 1995 shot in Combat3.map are a direct match.
That's not all: Combat3.map also has a location that appeared on the Shadow Warrior site in September 1996.
They're a direct match. The 1995-era screenshot with bodies everywhere and the human sacrifice chamber seen in the screenshot posted on September 1996 are from the same level!
Last up (for now) Water1.map.
At first, there's noting special about Water1.map. Howeve,r if you dive underwater, explore for a bit, then get out of the water, you'll find Skeleton Priests wandering around!
They behave almost exactly like how the source code for them tells them to do. The only thing is that they don't teleport, but this is a nice find!
Here's a picture of one dying to show you that they can be interacted with and aren't just static props.
Another interesting tidbit is that this exact section was shown in a screenshot published October 1996.
If you hop back into the water after saying hi to the Skeleton Priests, you can continue further. Soon, you'll end up in a flooded temple. If you explore it for a bit, you'll find a lake with a Buddha statue in the middle of it. This location actually appeared in a pre-release screenshot that appeared on the official Shadow Warrior site on November 1996.
There's a lot more in the beta, but I need to get some screenshots and digest it. The unused maps are a goldmine of content. The shareware maps that normally appear in the beta don't scratch the surface of the old content in the beta.
The first one I checked out was Boss2.map.
I found something very interesting in the distance: The Lava Boss sprite in the beta's files.
Turns out the Lava Boss is mostly functional in the beta! He has no animations, so he just slides on the ground. His only attack is to throw one or two lava rocks at you at a time. If they hit you, you're instantly killed. However, his hitbox is extremely wonky, as most projectiles simply fly through him. To take him out, you need to enter God mode and hack him to death with the sword.
I decided to look at Tank.map. I knew something was up when I saw this:
This looks very similar to this:
A level shown in a pre-release screenshot on the SW site back in March 1996.
Looking a bit further, I found that the level matches other parts of the same level seen in pre-releases. Turns out that Tank.map has been shown in several pre-release screenshots! In fact, all of the images featuring the player using a tank come from this level!
To drive the point home, I “remade” several pre-release screenshots taken in tank.map.
There are more instances where pre-release screenshots match tank.map, but I couldn't make an exact remake because of various issues.
Up next is Combat3.map.
I knew something was up as soon as I loaded this map. The first area in this map is a direct match for a location shown in a screenshot made in 1995. Check it:
The architecture and prop layout in the 1995 shot in Combat3.map are a direct match.
That's not all: Combat3.map also has a location that appeared on the Shadow Warrior site in September 1996.
They're a direct match. The 1995-era screenshot with bodies everywhere and the human sacrifice chamber seen in the screenshot posted on September 1996 are from the same level!
Last up (for now) Water1.map.
At first, there's noting special about Water1.map. Howeve,r if you dive underwater, explore for a bit, then get out of the water, you'll find Skeleton Priests wandering around!
They behave almost exactly like how the source code for them tells them to do. The only thing is that they don't teleport, but this is a nice find!
Here's a picture of one dying to show you that they can be interacted with and aren't just static props.
Another interesting tidbit is that this exact section was shown in a screenshot published October 1996.
If you hop back into the water after saying hi to the Skeleton Priests, you can continue further. Soon, you'll end up in a flooded temple. If you explore it for a bit, you'll find a lake with a Buddha statue in the middle of it. This location actually appeared in a pre-release screenshot that appeared on the official Shadow Warrior site on November 1996.
There's a lot more in the beta, but I need to get some screenshots and digest it. The unused maps are a goldmine of content. The shareware maps that normally appear in the beta don't scratch the surface of the old content in the beta.
This post has been edited by MYHOUSE.MAP: 30 August 2013 - 05:24 PM
#683 Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:25 PM
CryptKiller, on 28 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:
An early preview of Shadow Warrior in Polish magazine, 3 screenshots: http://i.imgur.com/Yz2mwb2.jpg
Is that ripper heart connected to Lo Wang?
- Ancient Blood God
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#685 Posted 30 August 2013 - 03:48 PM
IIRC it did a flashing lightning when you used it or something. So it gets like the essence of Lo Wang and creates a clone from that.
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#686 Posted 30 August 2013 - 04:37 PM
MYHOUSE.MAP, on 30 August 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:
There's a lot more in the beta, but I need to get some screenshots and digest it. The unused maps are a goldmine of content. The shareware maps that normally appear in the beta don't scratch the surface of the old content in the beta.
Holy shit! I had no idea there was so much. You're doing good writing too. If you make the style a little more encyclopedic, it would be awesome if you allowed me to include your writing on my site under the currently-empty MAPS heading.
#687 Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:07 PM
OK, I've done more research on the maps and I've found some very interesting stuff.
Several of the maps have large Lo Wangs with different pallets just standing around. It's clear they're supposed to be some sort of enemy, but they don't do anything and you can't kill them.
However, there's one giant clue that points to what the Lo Wangs were supposed to be. Look at the colors used by the ninjas on the images below:
Don't they seem very familiar? The blue one the blue vest one looks really close to the blue seen on most of the Lo Wangs, while the red ninja's color scheme matches the type of colors used on the red and grey Lo Wang. The only one that doesn’t have a beta ninja color counterpart is the Lo Wang with the green pants, but that could be a ninja variation that wasn't shown in screenshots.
Now, look at these two screenshots showing the same area. The first one is a pre-release screenshot, while the second one was taken in the Shadow Warrior beta:
Zoom into the pre-release image, and you'll see a beta ninja in the distance. However, the screenshot taken from the Shadow Warrior beta shows one of the large Lo Wangs. In addition, the beta ninja has a blue vest, while the Lo Wang has blue pants.
My theory is that the Lo Wangs are actually the old beta ninjas. The colors on the beta ninjas and the Lo Wangs are a good match. What's weird is that the ninjas from the final game are in the beta and work just fine. My theory is that the final ninjas were given a separate listing instead of making them overwrite the old beta ninjas. The old ninjas were then modified to the point where they couldn't do anything and their sprites were overwritten by the final Lo Wang sprites. I have no idea why they did this, because every other enemy in the unused maps that appears in the final are in the maps.
My second theory is that several of the maps in the prototype were already long obsolete when this beta was compiled. There are several things that hint this.
First off, the maps that look like they came from 1995 or early 1996 have no functioning doors nor switches. The only way to get past them is to use noclip. That's a big sign that things were rearranged internally after those maps were last worked on, but were never updated to use the new tags and the like. If they didn't care about continuing the maps, they wouldn't update the tags to make doors and switches work.
Second, the 1995 to early 1996-era maps have lots of floating“DELETE ME” signs or objects with “DELETE ME” on them. You can't interact with a vast majority of them, suggesting their code was already stripped from the game when this prototype was compiled. If they did intend to continue work on these maps, then those items would surely be removed.
Third, they never bothered to replace the old ninjas discussed above with the final ones.
Fourth, the maps that have locked doors don't have the Duke 3D/Shadow Warrior-style locks on them. Instead, it seems that the doors would act like Doom's; as soon as you had the key, you could open the door. No having to insert the key into the keyhole. Of course, since their tags are broken, it's impossible to figure this out for sure, but it seems to point that way because they have no locks for the player to use.
It seems that several of the maps were added to this prototype with no intention of putting them in the final game. It's possible that development for the Shadow Warrior shareware (which this is supposed to be a pre-release version of) split from an old version of Shadow Warrior, and therefore had maps that were stripped from the final version. When it came time to get the shareware version made, all they needed to do was remove the old maps and use the latest .exe and art instead of having to branch from the still-WIP full version.
One bit of interesting information is that there are maps from several stages of development hidden in the beta.
*The first stage consists of maps made for the old Shadow Warrior that was about temples and ruins. I've shown off some maps from these before.
*The second stage consists of early versions of maps that would appear in the final game, but still have some quirks from the old Shadow Warrior in them, such as the beta ninja placeholders and some of ruin and village textures used in areas you wouldn't expect them to be, such as in Unfriendly Sky's bar and Floating Fortress' dock. They don't have any DELETE MEs in them.
*The third stage consists of barebones layouts that have no enemies, but only have the final's objects in them. Two of them are prototypes for levels in the final game, but others don't appear at all.
*The fourth stage consists of pretty-close versions of maps that appear in the final game. These have the final ninjas and geography of the final levels, but have several different things in them. For example, the prototype has a mostly-complete version of Rising Son, but the door to the turret and bath is locked behind a Bronze key. The key is hidden in the Grenade Launcher secret area found at the start of the map.
*The fifth stage is the shareware levels you can access in the beta normally. These are the most complete maps in the beta.
That's the second part of my research. Still lots more to come!
Several of the maps have large Lo Wangs with different pallets just standing around. It's clear they're supposed to be some sort of enemy, but they don't do anything and you can't kill them.
However, there's one giant clue that points to what the Lo Wangs were supposed to be. Look at the colors used by the ninjas on the images below:
Don't they seem very familiar? The blue one the blue vest one looks really close to the blue seen on most of the Lo Wangs, while the red ninja's color scheme matches the type of colors used on the red and grey Lo Wang. The only one that doesn’t have a beta ninja color counterpart is the Lo Wang with the green pants, but that could be a ninja variation that wasn't shown in screenshots.
Now, look at these two screenshots showing the same area. The first one is a pre-release screenshot, while the second one was taken in the Shadow Warrior beta:
Zoom into the pre-release image, and you'll see a beta ninja in the distance. However, the screenshot taken from the Shadow Warrior beta shows one of the large Lo Wangs. In addition, the beta ninja has a blue vest, while the Lo Wang has blue pants.
My theory is that the Lo Wangs are actually the old beta ninjas. The colors on the beta ninjas and the Lo Wangs are a good match. What's weird is that the ninjas from the final game are in the beta and work just fine. My theory is that the final ninjas were given a separate listing instead of making them overwrite the old beta ninjas. The old ninjas were then modified to the point where they couldn't do anything and their sprites were overwritten by the final Lo Wang sprites. I have no idea why they did this, because every other enemy in the unused maps that appears in the final are in the maps.
My second theory is that several of the maps in the prototype were already long obsolete when this beta was compiled. There are several things that hint this.
First off, the maps that look like they came from 1995 or early 1996 have no functioning doors nor switches. The only way to get past them is to use noclip. That's a big sign that things were rearranged internally after those maps were last worked on, but were never updated to use the new tags and the like. If they didn't care about continuing the maps, they wouldn't update the tags to make doors and switches work.
Second, the 1995 to early 1996-era maps have lots of floating“DELETE ME” signs or objects with “DELETE ME” on them. You can't interact with a vast majority of them, suggesting their code was already stripped from the game when this prototype was compiled. If they did intend to continue work on these maps, then those items would surely be removed.
Third, they never bothered to replace the old ninjas discussed above with the final ones.
Fourth, the maps that have locked doors don't have the Duke 3D/Shadow Warrior-style locks on them. Instead, it seems that the doors would act like Doom's; as soon as you had the key, you could open the door. No having to insert the key into the keyhole. Of course, since their tags are broken, it's impossible to figure this out for sure, but it seems to point that way because they have no locks for the player to use.
It seems that several of the maps were added to this prototype with no intention of putting them in the final game. It's possible that development for the Shadow Warrior shareware (which this is supposed to be a pre-release version of) split from an old version of Shadow Warrior, and therefore had maps that were stripped from the final version. When it came time to get the shareware version made, all they needed to do was remove the old maps and use the latest .exe and art instead of having to branch from the still-WIP full version.
One bit of interesting information is that there are maps from several stages of development hidden in the beta.
*The first stage consists of maps made for the old Shadow Warrior that was about temples and ruins. I've shown off some maps from these before.
*The second stage consists of early versions of maps that would appear in the final game, but still have some quirks from the old Shadow Warrior in them, such as the beta ninja placeholders and some of ruin and village textures used in areas you wouldn't expect them to be, such as in Unfriendly Sky's bar and Floating Fortress' dock. They don't have any DELETE MEs in them.
*The third stage consists of barebones layouts that have no enemies, but only have the final's objects in them. Two of them are prototypes for levels in the final game, but others don't appear at all.
*The fourth stage consists of pretty-close versions of maps that appear in the final game. These have the final ninjas and geography of the final levels, but have several different things in them. For example, the prototype has a mostly-complete version of Rising Son, but the door to the turret and bath is locked behind a Bronze key. The key is hidden in the Grenade Launcher secret area found at the start of the map.
*The fifth stage is the shareware levels you can access in the beta normally. These are the most complete maps in the beta.
That's the second part of my research. Still lots more to come!
This post has been edited by MYHOUSE.MAP: 30 August 2013 - 08:21 PM
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#689 Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:43 PM
I would assume at one point that Lo Wang had the same sprite as the early ninja enemy.
This post has been edited by Jimmy: 30 August 2013 - 08:43 PM
#691 Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:16 AM
Hendricks, I have theory about those "mysterious" sprites from your SW Beta Analysis page:
I think they got something to do with this:
source: http://web.archive.o...adow/qanda.html
So I think those sprites were supposed to represent Kirins failed experiments at genetic engineering.
I think they got something to do with this:
Quote
GAMECENTER: Is Kirin the final adversary in the game? He's supernatural, but does he also have magical powers? If so, what kind? What kind of fight can we look forward to in the final battles?
G. B.: Again, all the story elements are being worked on now. The main bad guy as it stands is not really supernatural. He's more of an evil scientist who can genetically alter things to do his bidding.
G. B.: Again, all the story elements are being worked on now. The main bad guy as it stands is not really supernatural. He's more of an evil scientist who can genetically alter things to do his bidding.
source: http://web.archive.o...adow/qanda.html
So I think those sprites were supposed to represent Kirins failed experiments at genetic engineering.
#692 Posted 31 August 2013 - 02:07 AM
Daedolon, on 30 August 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:
Really cool information, thanks for sharing! But why does everything have to be The Legend of Seven something?
I'm unsure if these have been in the thread yet, but contrary to at least some beliefs (don't want to say popular) the game actually got a proper retail release
I'm unsure if these have been in the thread yet, but contrary to at least some beliefs (don't want to say popular) the game actually got a proper retail release
At least Lot7P was based on a novel which had 7 heroes(yeah, original the novel only had 3, but got extend to 7 in later revisions by other authors.) so that's it.
It was "released" public, so you guys can see that boxart, yeah, it's real.
Jimmy, on 30 August 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:
I'm not even sure it's a proper release. More likely just one of the high end Asian bootlegs.
In Taiwan, it WAS a proper release(when you can see a box like those pictures), and in that era, Taiwan had bad reputation about pirating copyright things...shitloads of such bootlegs about many famous titles from US, JP...nah, it just some dishonorably past...
Considering its BUILD engine never got proper licensed from Apogee Co. LTD. and then just sold it to some Asian countries that didn't care copyright laws in that time, sure it's just a "slightly high end" bootleg from Asian.
But at least this one better than that stupid MARS, which just nearly never did any advertising and got sold in "secretly"......I only saw a small AD pic. about MARS in one of Taiwanese gaming magazine and then I heard it never sold in public, no box or whatever else at all...
Hope I can get that 11/1 version of the game and see what's different in that "new version"... I searched whole Internet, only found the 9/26 version...which just a shame when I heard the "enhanced version" was better.
#693 Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:50 AM
As I haven't found clear info on the web (very few search results coming from a specific web search engine)...
Anybody knows something about the following (apparently fake) ripper heart on the top left of the image?
Source: Shadow Warrior: Twin Dragon, Hide And Seek. (Level 8, or 4th in the add-on.)
Note: I *can* climb to there (using a barrel), but I can't seem to obtain the heart, even though I don't have 5 ripper hearts at possession in the game.
If you don't recognize this place, it comes after using the blue key card and then walking in some greenish liquid (apparently not slimy). You may further check the compass as a reference (looking south-east in this shot).
Note 2: Yeah, I know I can probably use a map editor to check that. But I'm less familiar with the tiles than others and someone already knows some more details (even though there are probably few of these), which can be better.
Anybody knows something about the following (apparently fake) ripper heart on the top left of the image?
Source: Shadow Warrior: Twin Dragon, Hide And Seek. (Level 8, or 4th in the add-on.)
Note: I *can* climb to there (using a barrel), but I can't seem to obtain the heart, even though I don't have 5 ripper hearts at possession in the game.
If you don't recognize this place, it comes after using the blue key card and then walking in some greenish liquid (apparently not slimy). You may further check the compass as a reference (looking south-east in this shot).
Note 2: Yeah, I know I can probably use a map editor to check that. But I'm less familiar with the tiles than others and someone already knows some more details (even though there are probably few of these), which can be better.
This post has been edited by NY00123: 31 August 2013 - 08:53 AM
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#694 Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:56 AM
Player Lin, on 31 August 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:
Hope I can get that 11/1 version of the game and see what's different in that "new version"... I searched whole Internet, only found the 9/26 version...which just a shame when I heard the "enhanced version" was better.
What files are you using to differentiate the game? All I know is the demo and a version from 22.9.94.
Also what's MARS? Cheers.
#695 Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:46 AM
Daedolon, on 31 August 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:
What files are you using to differentiate the game? All I know is the demo and a version from 22.9.94.
Also what's MARS? Cheers.
Also what's MARS? Cheers.
Whoops... looks like I misread the datestamp...the demo should be 94/9/22...(but the datestamp may changed by the timezone for some reasons so maybe it's not real) stupid me.
Here shows the files list.
This is the demo from JF's Build games site.
The release one isn't the copy I owned, that copy was missing for a long time, bad friend borrowed it and never return back, lost it forever...
I just got a copy from one of some pirate sites...
(The "someone's" extracter still on there just lazy to remove...
)Some of EXE missing in this release version just because got changed to L?ART000.DAT for no reason...
MARS, it's a game made by a Taiwan company that never did any FPS game, never sold in public so no one really know this game...it used DooM 1 engine but illegally hacked it with their custom gamedata, but still leave many remains of doom.exe in its exe, they even changed the string "DOOM Operation System" to "MARS Operation System" in startup screen... the game just so bad and I don't know how to explains why it's bad...bad story, bad level design, bad voice acting, bad texturing...bad......ah, holy s---...
I should recording some footage about this one, it really rare and near nobody knows at all...but other problem is...seems I still don't know how to install it properly...or it just that buggy so crashing a lot...
This post has been edited by Player Lin: 31 August 2013 - 09:49 AM
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#696 Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:02 AM
That looks completely different from what I've seen.
This post has been edited by Daedolon: 31 August 2013 - 10:03 AM
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#698 Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:16 AM
Oops, checked the wrong dir then, haha. I seem to have the same one then, sans the LOTSPE stuff.
This post has been edited by Daedolon: 31 August 2013 - 10:18 AM
#699 Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:45 PM
Daedolon, on 31 August 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:
Oops, checked the wrong dir then, haha. I seem to have the same one then, sans the LOTSPE stuff.
I put the LOTSPE stuff in the release one, read my post carefully.
#700 Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:51 PM
For the hell of it, I decided to see how many maps in the Shadow Warrior beta matched areas shown in pre-release screenshots. Turns out that quite a few pre-release screenshots originated in maps included with the beta! The upper screenshot is a pre-release screenshot made by 3D Realms, while the lower one is taken by me in the Shadow Warrior beta.
First up is Palace2.map:
There are two interesting things about these: first, the magic scroll found in the pre-release screenshot is still in the beta and can be picked up! However, it does nothing when you get it. Second, there is a red potion behind the magic scroll in the pre-release image. However, in the beta, a Portable Medkit is behind it.
Same location, but the pre-release screenshot was taken in 1995. Seems not a lot changed, architecture-wise.
Next up is prison.map. Despite the name, this area has several areas that appeared in pre-release screenshots that don't look like they come from a prison.
There are some interesting differences between the pre-release and beta versions. It looks like the crystal ball props got a redesign between the pre-release and beta versions. Second, the DELETE ME object in the beta is a vial with some sort of dark blue liquid in it. Makes you wonder what it was used for. Finally, there are two ninjas roaming around the yard in the beta version, but there are two tall Lo Wangs in the ledge above the statue. Did they move the ninjas between the pre-release and beta images, or did the ninjas hop down and pursue the player when the pre-release image was taken?
Looks like the beta version added two more ninjas/tall Lo Wangs to the front of the door. There's also a tall Lo Wang behind the doorway in the beta, which probably explains where the ninja in the pre-release screenshot came from.
oohh, some actual differences! It seems that earlier versions of this room had a path on the right side of the room. However, the version of the room seen in the beta doesn't have that path anymore. There's also a Guardian in the pre-release screenshot, but the version seen in the beta doesn't have one. This is a Guardian Head behind the door on the other side of the room.
A large Lo Wang makes it hard to see the door on the right side in the beta screenshot. However, if you look at the door logo in the pre-release image, it is smaller and less detailed than the one seen in the beta screenshot.
Tank.map:
Nothing special, but it does show that the sight on the tank was changed between the pre-release and beta screenshots.
The architecture is the same, but there are no ninjas/large Lo-Wangs in the pre-release screenshot. The version of this map in the beta also lacks the Guardian seen in the pre-release screenshot. Also of note is that the fortune cookie on the crates in the upper left side of the room is another mysterious potion.
I couldn't get into the turret because the switch that raises the wal that allows the turret to view the pool room doesn't work in the prototype. This is the same area seen in the previous comparison, but at a different angle. Again, no ninjas in the pre-release screenshot version of this map.
Palace1.map:
Looks like the blood was darkened between the time the pre-release image was made and the version of the map seen in the beta. Also, there is no Guardian in this room. The Baby Rippers are still there.
Unfriendly Skies:
Just some minor differences. The handrails and painting seen in the pre-release screenshot are not in the beta version of the map. Also, the beta version has less lamps than the pre-release version does.
Continues in the next post because I hit the limit for amount of images.
First up is Palace2.map:
There are two interesting things about these: first, the magic scroll found in the pre-release screenshot is still in the beta and can be picked up! However, it does nothing when you get it. Second, there is a red potion behind the magic scroll in the pre-release image. However, in the beta, a Portable Medkit is behind it.
Same location, but the pre-release screenshot was taken in 1995. Seems not a lot changed, architecture-wise.
Next up is prison.map. Despite the name, this area has several areas that appeared in pre-release screenshots that don't look like they come from a prison.
There are some interesting differences between the pre-release and beta versions. It looks like the crystal ball props got a redesign between the pre-release and beta versions. Second, the DELETE ME object in the beta is a vial with some sort of dark blue liquid in it. Makes you wonder what it was used for. Finally, there are two ninjas roaming around the yard in the beta version, but there are two tall Lo Wangs in the ledge above the statue. Did they move the ninjas between the pre-release and beta images, or did the ninjas hop down and pursue the player when the pre-release image was taken?
Looks like the beta version added two more ninjas/tall Lo Wangs to the front of the door. There's also a tall Lo Wang behind the doorway in the beta, which probably explains where the ninja in the pre-release screenshot came from.
oohh, some actual differences! It seems that earlier versions of this room had a path on the right side of the room. However, the version of the room seen in the beta doesn't have that path anymore. There's also a Guardian in the pre-release screenshot, but the version seen in the beta doesn't have one. This is a Guardian Head behind the door on the other side of the room.
A large Lo Wang makes it hard to see the door on the right side in the beta screenshot. However, if you look at the door logo in the pre-release image, it is smaller and less detailed than the one seen in the beta screenshot.
Tank.map:
Nothing special, but it does show that the sight on the tank was changed between the pre-release and beta screenshots.
The architecture is the same, but there are no ninjas/large Lo-Wangs in the pre-release screenshot. The version of this map in the beta also lacks the Guardian seen in the pre-release screenshot. Also of note is that the fortune cookie on the crates in the upper left side of the room is another mysterious potion.
I couldn't get into the turret because the switch that raises the wal that allows the turret to view the pool room doesn't work in the prototype. This is the same area seen in the previous comparison, but at a different angle. Again, no ninjas in the pre-release screenshot version of this map.
Palace1.map:
Looks like the blood was darkened between the time the pre-release image was made and the version of the map seen in the beta. Also, there is no Guardian in this room. The Baby Rippers are still there.
Unfriendly Skies:
Just some minor differences. The handrails and painting seen in the pre-release screenshot are not in the beta version of the map. Also, the beta version has less lamps than the pre-release version does.
Continues in the next post because I hit the limit for amount of images.
#701 Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:53 PM
Part 2
Boat.map
The doorwary seen on the right side of the beta screenshot is completely missing in the pre-release screenshot (which was taken in April 1996)! The doorway leads to a rough outline of what appears to be a store, but using generic brick and marble textures. There's also no Guardian in the beta.
Water1.map:
The waterfalls have been lightened up between the pre-release and the beta versions of the map, but the actual water is the same color. There are Coolie Ghosts in the beta version, but the knockback from their projectiles makes ti hard as hell to take a good screenshot, so I blew them up. Also, the per-release screenshot was taken on August 11th, 1995. Looks like nothing was changed.
Same area as before, but this screenshot was taken in 1996.
Combat3.map:
Fun bit of trivia: the pre-release screenshot was taken on June 20th, 1995, making it one of the earliest Shadow Warrior Screenshots out there. The architecture and prop layout is identical to the version seen in the beta version of Shadow Warrior, which was compiled almost two years later. The only differences is that the beta version has no enemies and the smoke emitting from the crater is different between the two.
There are some interesting differences here. First off, a dead Coolie with arrows in his back that's not seen in the final game appears in the pre-release screenshot, but a dead Master Leep appears where the Coolie is in the version seen in the beta. My guess is that they overwrote the dead Coolie with Master Leep. Second, there is an impaled ninja in the pre-release screenshot, but not in the beta. Finally, the blood is darker in the beta version.
Of note is that the pre-release screenshot was taken on June 20th, 1995, making it one of the oldest SW screenshots out there. Looks like it didn't change much between the 1995 and 1997 beta versions.
Mine.map
I couldn't find an area in mine.map that was a direct match for the pre-release screenshotk, but this area seems to fit it best. This could be images of the same area, as the hole in the wall seen in the beta screenshot is caused by a large explosion that happens when you shoot a rocket at the wall. There's a huge explosion in the pre-release screenshot where the hole would be.
That's all I could find. I'm working on compiling more cool info.
Boat.map
The doorwary seen on the right side of the beta screenshot is completely missing in the pre-release screenshot (which was taken in April 1996)! The doorway leads to a rough outline of what appears to be a store, but using generic brick and marble textures. There's also no Guardian in the beta.
Water1.map:
The waterfalls have been lightened up between the pre-release and the beta versions of the map, but the actual water is the same color. There are Coolie Ghosts in the beta version, but the knockback from their projectiles makes ti hard as hell to take a good screenshot, so I blew them up. Also, the per-release screenshot was taken on August 11th, 1995. Looks like nothing was changed.
Same area as before, but this screenshot was taken in 1996.
Combat3.map:
Fun bit of trivia: the pre-release screenshot was taken on June 20th, 1995, making it one of the earliest Shadow Warrior Screenshots out there. The architecture and prop layout is identical to the version seen in the beta version of Shadow Warrior, which was compiled almost two years later. The only differences is that the beta version has no enemies and the smoke emitting from the crater is different between the two.
There are some interesting differences here. First off, a dead Coolie with arrows in his back that's not seen in the final game appears in the pre-release screenshot, but a dead Master Leep appears where the Coolie is in the version seen in the beta. My guess is that they overwrote the dead Coolie with Master Leep. Second, there is an impaled ninja in the pre-release screenshot, but not in the beta. Finally, the blood is darker in the beta version.
Of note is that the pre-release screenshot was taken on June 20th, 1995, making it one of the oldest SW screenshots out there. Looks like it didn't change much between the 1995 and 1997 beta versions.
Mine.map
I couldn't find an area in mine.map that was a direct match for the pre-release screenshotk, but this area seems to fit it best. This could be images of the same area, as the hole in the wall seen in the beta screenshot is caused by a large explosion that happens when you shoot a rocket at the wall. There's a huge explosion in the pre-release screenshot where the hole would be.
That's all I could find. I'm working on compiling more cool info.
This post has been edited by MYHOUSE.MAP: 31 August 2013 - 09:56 PM
#702 Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:19 PM
I feel like someone should go into some of those unused or altered maps and fix some of the doors not working because I feel like they would still be fun to play through.
Very nice research
Very nice research
#703 Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:24 PM
For me, the Skeleton Priest enemy of SW looks like a hybrid of the Guardian and the Coolie. The lava boss seems like an early interpretation of the Serpent. Those pics are cool though.
#704 Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:37 PM
Lunick, on 31 August 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:
I feel like someone should go into some of those unused or altered maps and fix some of the doors not working because I feel like they would still be fun to play through.
Very nice research
Very nice research
You can use noclip to get through most of them. However, there are some thick doors that make the beta crash with a "number of sectors has exceeded maxsectors" error. It makes one of the levels, Flood.map, impossible to explore because the only way to acess nearly everything in the map is to go through a thick door. You also have to be careful, because some areas may look like doors, but they aren't. If you try and noclip through them, you'll get the same error I mentioned earlier.
#705 Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:55 PM
I've extracted some of the maps to fool around in non beta versions but some of them crash straight away like water1.map.
- el fundador
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#706 Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:24 AM
MYHOUSE.MAP, on 31 August 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:
You can use noclip to get through most of them. However, there are some thick doors that make the beta crash with a "number of sectors has exceeded maxsectors" error. It makes one of the levels, Flood.map, impossible to explore because the only way to acess nearly everything in the map is to go through a thick door. You also have to be careful, because some areas may look like doors, but they aren't. If you try and noclip through them, you'll get the same error I mentioned earlier.
Sounds like that's the error it throws when the player goes out of bounds, ending up with the engine functions for determining the sector of a particular point returning -1 which can be interpreted as exceeding MAXSECTORS if the value of -1 is read as unsigned.
In other words, just go into the editor and remove the door!
#707 Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:30 AM
MYHOUSE.MAP, those sure are awesome findings!
BTW, I've always liked the design of SW from the pre-release stage that had more medieval Japan themed areas, and Lo Wang's design in the black suit, with weapons such as the wrist-mounted blade and the crossbow.
BTW, I've always liked the design of SW from the pre-release stage that had more medieval Japan themed areas, and Lo Wang's design in the black suit, with weapons such as the wrist-mounted blade and the crossbow.
#708 Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:41 AM
Player Lin, on 30 August 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:
According the background story in this game, the train you take is a mystery train that take you to the game world, but it's weird when if you're not leave the train after it arrived the entrance of game world, it will just move and send you back to the train station for no reason...and yeah, it just go forward and then go backward in between two "stations"...
I find this gameplay aspect of 7 Paladins as actually the most original and memorable thing about it. For me it is very intriguing way of starting game, where you begin in "real world" and then have to enter "game world". (If so bit immersion breaking, but I dont mind.) Imagine if Duke3D began with player in room with computer, and he/she would have to come to computer and then "launch game" on it with space key, then on computer screen would appear logo of game and then it would zoom in to fill whole screen (like loading saved games in ROTT does) and game itself would truly start. Starting "real world" room (or even whole flat with multiple rooms) could also hide some extras (e.g. radio for listening to game music), easter eggs or cleverly inmplemented credits, or original ways to adjust options by using its enviroment in various ways.
Quote
7. I didn't completed the whole game because the 9/26 version is so hard and I sucked at it...even I were tried to use a memory scanning and hacking tool and cheating the game by locked my health value, but feel boring after completed some levels... I checked someone's Lot7P Extracter, it extracted 35 maps from LMART000.DAT... the level didn't had actual name, instead it named "Chapter X, Section Y, Round Z", like the first level is "Chapter 1, Section 1, Round 1" , and next one is "Chapter 1, Section 1, Round 2", I don't have enough time to check the whole game to finger it out what's the rules about the naming, maybe later...
Is it possible to somehow skip trough levels? I am very interested in seeing some later/boss levels, because every video of it I have ever seen so far included only starting level at train station and first game level.
Also could I ask you to upload ripped sprites from it? I found only two sprite resources (>first< & >second<) for it and I strongly suspect that both of them are significantly incomplete (no sprites for any boss character - I presume this game features some boss/bosses, right?).
This post has been edited by t800: 01 September 2013 - 08:49 AM
#709 Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:49 AM
t800, on 01 September 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:
I find this gameplay aspect of 7 Paladins as actually the most original and memorable thing about it. For me it is very intriguing way of starting game, where you begin in "real world" and then have to enter "game world". (If so bit immersion breaking, but I dont mind.) ...... Starting "real world" room (or even whole flat with multiple rooms) could also hide some extras (e.g. radio for listening to game music), easter eggs or cleverly inmplemented credits, or original ways to adjust options by using its enviroment in various ways.
That's some(not so many) of Chinese novels/games/dramas tend to do such things, starting from real world(modern) and then go into the game world(ancient time) with whatever reasons, sometimes it maybe a reversed one(ancient -> modern)...some kind of time travel......
t800, on 01 September 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:
Is it possible to somehow skip trough levels? I am very interested in seeing some later/boss levels, because every video of it I have ever seen so far included only starting level at train station and first game level. Also could I ask you to upload ripped sprites from it? I found only two sprite resources (>first< & >second<) for it and I strongly suspect that both of them are significantly incomplete (no sprites for any boss character - I presume this game features some boss/bosses, right?).
Also could I ask you to upload ripped sprites from it? I found only two sprite resources (>first< & >second<) for it and I strongly suspect that both of them are significantly incomplete (no sprites for any boss character - I presume this game features some boss/bosses, right?).Not known any built-in cheats in this game...sadly...even I hope it had...
I guess they just get those data from the L0ART000.DAT & L1ART000.DAT because they're just pure Tiles000.ART files with different name(the author of LOTSPE said that), use EDITART with the game's palette file should be work I guess...
I guess all sprite works should be on those two files, because other L?ART000.DATs just looks like not sprite files at all, the M is map data and V is music, sound and pictures for stuffs like loading screen, copyright declaration screen(LOL) and those upcoming games screens.
A and T are just executable files, check them in WinHex and found the executable file header...
C, F and G... I don't know what they're at all...too bad I'm not good at trace things like those unknown things...
I just still wait until I found the "Enhanced" version of the game.....
This post has been edited by Player Lin: 01 September 2013 - 09:59 AM
