[Forge]

tile 803 is grass and/or hedge - it's with the other dirt/rock textures
tile 1219 is carpet - it's with the other carpet textures

pascal would have used 1219 if it suited his artistic vision of keeping the ambiance pastel

[ck3D]

Aren't the tiles the exact same and so completely interchangeable (assuming the first one isn't the obvious, thicker grass)? I never studied them closely enough to tell. Maybe Pascal didn't either. Texture placement in the tileset only hints at so much too, since there's no trace of when each was inserted where, why and how rushingly. Tileset was cleaned up pre release but it's still full of leftovers, possible duplicates, things in places that make zero sense, etc.

In order to match Hergé's style it doesn't really matter the intended purpose of the tiles anyway really. The element to focus on is going for plain color (or as close as possible) instead of more detailed, richer patterns. I feel like Pascal aimed for something that would visually protrude as as clear cut as Hergé's strong lines and use of plain tones, and once you've recognized and seen it the place more obviously shows it's a bit of a departure from every location Pascal had designed thus far as pseudo-realistic (but since the attention to detail is just as meticulous, in the context of Build it comes out as coherent because presented on the exact same plane of fidelity as the rest). And whether or not he meant to do it, that's what he achieved.

Funnily enough the château itself (outdoors) is different because there I feel like it's obvious he used the real life counterpart to guide the texturing. Or maybe it's just the roof that's making me say that because in terms of actual detail, it's actually a bit of a mix.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 19 February 2024 - 09:41 AM, said:

Aren't the tiles the exact same and so completely interchangeable?

no, not really
803 has more shades of green and looks 'rougher', whereas 1812 is pretty flat and even.
803 would be closer to natural grass, 1812 is more like carpet or stadium astroturf (which is basically a carpet of fake grass)

the out of bounds area in e1l2 uses 1812 - i think they just tossed something green there and called it good, since the player really can't get back there or get a good look.
If you need a good example of 803 as grass, off the top of my head I would suggest the 1st couple D.C. maps. There are probably a few in the original episodes, but I can't think of one right off-hand. Maybe e3l1.

I don't think 803 would have fit pascal's intended purpose; even if it is the 'grass' texture.

[Aleks]

Yeah my point was that a lot of textures are versatile enough to represent more than one thing and the "green carpet" always surprised me in particular (well the "carpet" texture names in general, but the red and blue are a bit more justified since they are used like that in the game). I know the mansion in Roch 4 is a nod to Tin Tin, but don't think using the Gaussian brown and green textures for the courtyard is exactly trying to mimick the plain colours, but rather just using the most suitable textures for the look (especially considering that there's also some curb texture used on the walls between the green and brown parts, which isn't used in the flat original). Agree with Forge here that 803 is more wild/uneven grass, while 1219 can be both carpet but also neatly trimmed grass you would expect next to a mansion that probably comes with it's own gardener (or English vs French park kinda grass).

IIRC Pascal didn't hesitate to use "plain" textures when needed by super-stretching them, something that Taivo appreciated and took a few steps further from him (also the plain blue sky in Roch maps).

[High Treason]

Still looks like crap.

You can tell Pascal was an architect, through and through. Thought only about 'the vision', the modernity and the wankery, but never once stopped to think of the people who had to walk around in the fucking thing he'd come up with. Sheer refined incompetence but with a thin veneer of grandeur. Still to this day one of the least enjoyable maps I've played and would be higher on the shit list if its successor wasn't several times more insufferable.
Liberties can definitely be taken with where a texture goes and in general, they should be, but sometimes it just doesn't work. This carpet still isn't anywhere near as awful as the broken glass floors that show up in Pascal's works repeatedly.

[ck3D]

Am guilty of regularly Dogvilling the broken glass as floor into my own maps because I find there is no texture I can think of in the entire tileset that actually evokes gravel, or pebbles (which are lame in real life too), although I typically try and reserve it to rooftops. The beige sand/grainy marble stone with no lines is a better texture but as such from me that one gets the special treatment of going to the sparse places where it will look the best, textures that are actually great in general I like to use wisely in order to draw particular attention with them, almost feels respectful to reserve them, they used to be all I'd use everywhere but with time I've found I like an equilibrium. Whereas broken glass can be ugly gravel for all I care since to me it translates. I don't think Pascal invented that choice either, pretty certain I remember user maps from 1996 that did it first.

Maybe it's unclear what I find so intriguing about the mansion. I'm not trying to say Pascal tried to replicate the feel or look of the Tintin place, or even consciously to Hergé's style specifically (not trying to pretend I ever was in the guy's head). But the product ends up respecting the definition of ligne claire https://en.wikipedia...ki/Ligne_claire (at least as much as the base Duke 3D texture set reasonably will allow), or at least falling under it more than everything else around the level and most things Pascal would otherwise build. Whether intended or a consequence doesn't really matter. But it's interesting to point out because ligne claire almost resembles an architect's approach to depictional art/line work, it's a rather technical (suspended) illustration of shapes and motion all things considered and as such it's probably sensible around some Roch sceneries that never were ever meant to be Tintin or Hergé nods to a degree, might be a general mark of the style (which in turns solidifies the coherence of the château).

I had never realized the differences between both 'carpets' but maybe in subtle patterns of the grain without ever thinking much about it, that's crazy. Wonder if more discernable outside of the software renderer at my usual low res.

[Forge]

High Treason, on 19 February 2024 - 02:45 PM, said:

Still looks like crap.

i've misused and abused just about every wall, floor, and ceiling texture in the game, so i'm not the one to be throwing stones at anybody

[Aleks]

 ck3D, on 19 February 2024 - 05:05 PM, said:

Maybe it's unclear what I find so intriguing about the mansion. I'm not trying to say Pascal tried to replicate the feel or look of the Tintin place, or even consciously to Hergé's style specifically (not trying to pretend I ever was in the guy's head). But the product ends up respecting the definition of ligne claire https://en.wikipedia...ki/Ligne_claire (at least as much as the base Duke 3D texture set reasonably will allow), or at least falling under it more than everything else around the level and most things Pascal would otherwise build. Whether intended or a consequence doesn't really matter. But it's interesting to point out because ligne claire almost resembles an architect's approach to depictional art/line work, it's a rather technical (suspended) illustration of shapes and motion all things considered and as such it's probably sensible around some Roch sceneries that never were ever meant to be Tintin or Hergé nods to a degree, might be a general mark of the style (which in turns solidifies the coherence of the château).

I'd say ligne claire is a style that describes a lot of Roch maps, a style that despite all the details and intricacies/unconservative use of textures is still very clean and with clear visual breaks. The plain blue sky emphasising the contours of every shape is probably the biggest clue to it. I think this is especially strong in Roch 6 with the overpass and the horizontal signage on the road beneath it. Also just checked Roch 8 MSDN page and the 2nd screen is coincidentally stupidly similar to the picture in the Wiki article you posted about ligne claire: https://msdn.duke4.net/hotroch8.php

Speaking of weird uses of textures, ever since HRP I started to question how I perceived a lot of the textures myself. I think one of the more interesting is #243 and #392 - I've always seen this as wooden beams, but then realised it could as well be rusty corrugated metal sheet (actually same with #396, although here I'm now more convinced it's a corrugated metal sheet).

[Doom64hunter]

 ck3D, on 05 February 2024 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's probably known to some but wasn't to me until I caught a post on the dukenukem Reddit by user Phobos_Anomaly today, but this is the original inspiration behind barmusic.voc:


And the vibe of the RLD bar (obviously, contains NSFW):

Nope, it's based on the Mortal Kombat movie theme. TerminX talked about it on the Discord before, but in the betas, barmusic.voc was just a segment ripped directly from the Mortal Kombat theme.

[ck3D]

 Doom64hunter, on 20 February 2024 - 09:42 AM, said:

Nope, it's based on the Mortal Kombat movie theme. TerminX talked about it on the Discord before, but in the betas, barmusic.voc was just a segment ripped directly from the Mortal Kombat theme.

Had no idea, that's pretty cool but I don't see how that's mutually exclusive with the Bad Lieutnant scene/track when the time came to replace the placeholder. But I can hear the vibes now, funny how I had never caught that. I guess everyone has their own blatant misses, the last time I casually brought up how the Shop N Bag muzak was Grabbag (which I thought everyone de facto recognized) in the chat of one of Dan's streams, I saw two or three respected modders have an 'oh, shit' moment, I was never prepared. Did Lee Jackson make barmusic, it's possible he might read this, probably chuckle and confirm/infirm if he did.

[Aleks]

 ck3D, on 20 February 2024 - 11:18 AM, said:

Did Lee Jackson make barmusic, it's possible he might read this, probably chuckle and confirm/infirm if he did.

Yeah, it was Lee that did both BARMUSIC and 2BWILD.

[Hendricks266]

SONGS.TXT said:

Songs with an (LJ) after the title were written by Lee Jackson.



OTHER (DIGITIZED) MUSIC
-----------------------
BONUS.VOC - Huh Huh...You Said Bonus (LJ)
BARMUSIC.VOC - Mortail Wombat (LJ)
2BWILD.VOC - ...Or Not to be Wild (LJ)
WHISTLE.VOC - excerpt from Grabbag (LJ)
GRABBAG.VOC - Grabbag (reprise) (LJ)
MUZAK028.VOC - Grabbag (Muzak Version) (LJ)
MUZAKDIE.VOC - Grabbag (Muzak Death) (LJ)

The scene from Bad Lieutenant could have been aesthetic inspiration, or similar example of a broader trend. "Mortail Wombat" and the direct MK theme rip in the betas leaves no doubt about what the direct inspiration was.

[High Treason]

I like the blatant Korg O1R noises in the Acid song anyway, most distinct is the industrial clang. I'm convinced there's not a single song made between 1991 and 1999 that doesn't feature that box. Even games had it, like NFS3 and Sonic Adventure. Fairly sure there was a Duke game with it in, probably one of the console games, but can't remember which one and now it's bugging me.

Misc knowledge so I don't go too far off-topic: Teleporters can be locked, which is documented in a few places. Water teleporters can also be locked, but only going down, which I discovered when I wanted water to rise up and not be submersible until after the rising. Quite surprised I haven't seen this done more often.

While probably not useful, GENERICPOLE is subject to multiplayer only palette rules like switches are, as is MUSICANDSFX. The last tile of the rotating red beacon light is tied to the destructible cameras flag, as it used to be CAMERAPOLE.

[ck3D]

I just started watching this, in general I'm quite fascinated by the amount of typos in Duke or Build code ('devistator', 'convair belt' etc.) that sometimes make it onto the sprite art (e.g.. 'John McClain' instead of 'John McClane' in the episode 4 tile, although I like that one because of how it allows for an easy transformation into 'John McCain'). But I guess the add-ons had their own respective shares of typos too, the one at 1:34 got me good (pretty sure I'm reading 'force shield genaretor'):

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

The pistol ammo pickup is a Beretta 92 magazine.

[Ghostwar]

Been awhile since I've added the music sprite into a map... can't remember... is there a way to contain the sound within the sector were it is placed?
Crossing red sectors walls would be fine but I don't want the sound to pass through white sector walls into separate sectors even if the sound radius is wide enough.

[ck3D]

Ghostwar, on 16 April 2024 - 09:28 AM, said:

Been awhile since I've added the music sprite into a map... can't remember... is there a way to contain the sound within the sector were it is placed?
Crossing red sectors walls would be fine but I don't want the sound to pass through white sector walls into separate sectors even if the sound radius is wide enough.

I don't think achieving what you're describing is possible without new code, but just in case some of the following helps or is compatible with what you're making:

- ambient sounds are responsive to ACTIVATORLOCKED (and the sector doesn't have to have another function to warrant it), that means they can be flexed around the progressive reveal(s) of this or that part of a level, however once 'unlocked' they won't stop playing even if triggered to 'lock' again (edit - according to High Treason, that limitation reportedly is modern port behavior);

- source of the sound is tied to the exact coords of the MUSIC&SFX sprite also as far as Z/height is concerned, so if the conditions allow the due degree of control you can place them on tiny sectors with SE31's and GPSPEED with the value of your choice for more or less pronounced fade in/out effects with every new trigger, and now that can be activated/deactivated at one's liking.

[Ghostwar]

ck3D, on 16 April 2024 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't think achieving what you're describing is possible without new code, but just in case some of the following helps or is compatible with what you're making:

- ambient sounds are responsive to ACTIVATORLOCKED (and the sector doesn't have to have another function to warrant it), that means they can be flexed around the progressive reveal(s) of this or that part of a level, however once 'unlocked' they won't stop playing even if triggered to lock' again;

- source of the sound is tied to the exact coords of the MUSIC&SFX sprite also as far as Z/height is concerned, so if the conditions allow the due degree of control you can place them on tiny sectors with SE31's and GPSPEED with the value of your choice for more or less pronounced fade in/out effects with every new trigger, and now that can be activated/deactivated at one's liking.

[Ghostwar]

That is interesting...

I've also explored the idea of placing several music sprites in an area and then reducing the radius of the sound so that it does not propagate through the walls, but what tends to happen when the sound circles overlap each other is the sound stops when Duke transitions into the radius of an adjacent sound circle.

Meanwhile, only using one music sprite is also problematic... for instance, to hear the gurgling water of a fountain in a rectangular room at the furthest ends of the room requires the radius to be set such that the circle reaches to those walls. But then the circle naturally extends outside of the rectangular room along the nearest walls. And if there are any adjacent rooms that the circle reaches into then the sound can be heard in there.

I'm surprised no one has added some new code to fix that yet considering how many maps have sectors that are either laterally close to each other or vertically close to each other.

[ck3D]

Yes the 'golden rule' of ambient sounds is you can't have multiple instances of the same one overlapping (but some like BUBBLE_AMBIANCE have duplicates). That's in part visible on a 2D plane in 2D mode with the circles but I'm pretty sure Z also counts as distance and there is just no visualization for that, but keeping track of the height values (the circles really are spheres). I'd need to test to confirm that, it's possible Z doesn't in fact matter in this specific department (interferences), but it does for sure as a raw sound source.

I've edited my former post (while I still could) to specify that apparently the limitation on ACTIVATORLOCKEDs is modern port behavior, at least according to High Treason. Been a while since I last used DOS Build myself to test. EDIT - according to Aleks now, you CAN in fact turn the sound off that way in EDuke too, but only if the player is situated outside of the sound radius when they trigger that. So strange.

Not going to be very useful but sometimes you want sector over sector layers to place just the sound sources in, that you can then manipulate independently from the main level layer and the sounds will still be heard there depending on what you dictate 'under the hood'. So if anything, that's one forte of the behavior that you describe as problematic - it allows for a possible complete disconnection of the playable map from its soundscape, if that's someone's thing.

[ck3D]

My apologies for occasionally turning this thread into ck's crackpot theories, but it's possible I might have found the original inspiration for Billy Boy's Clearwater (although I haven't checked if the respective construction timelines indeed align yet). Basically his level all the way down to certain specific effects in machine form. All the cooler if coincidental.

[NNC]

With OJ Simpson dead, I - for some reason - just wanted to check the Duke Nukem easter eggs of his trial if they have any merit or they are just some half-baked jokes. I knew the story, but never had any interest in it, neither in the Duke easter eggs. Particularly the car chase. Boy, THAT FUCKING SHOT IS FUCKING REAL. It was straight copied from the CNN live version. And that Bronco scene was one of the most watched TV program in the USA. Crazy stuff.

[NNC]

Another weird stuff... XXX Stacy has that Unabomber secret apartment with yet another famous copypaste graphics.

I'm wondering if the "Funny Boner" Comedy Club is just a weird little wordplay, because it sounds similar to "Unabomber".

[Mike Norvak]

Forge, on 19 May 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

the AMC portion of AMC Pleaser is not part of the original title.

http://www.amcwebfor...hp?topic=8034.0

starting around page 3 is where a certain person starts having "issues" with the title.

AMC no longer exists Can you tell us about it?

[Mike Norvak]

F!re-Fly, on 30 July 2019 - 03:51 AM, said:

I found my version of the game, with BETA images of the box and the booklet.

The spanish translation is hilarious! In the part that says "The odds are a million-to-one" it says: "exterminate the odds is your mission" aparently the translator though the "Odds" was how the enemies were called.

Also "murky bodies of water" translates as: "bodies trapped in life" 😁

[NY00123]

A few bits about breaking demo sequences:

- Changing Shadow Warrior DOS v1.2's "AutoAim" setting was found to break demos recorded beforehand. My find dates back to April 2020, while I was checking demo compatibility in VoidSW. Truly, version 1.2 didn't come with its own bundled demos, but that's still a thing I can bring up.

- Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition v1.5 has its own variation, as I've just realized. You can break demos by changing any of the values WeaponChoice0...WeaponChoice9. I simply tried reversing their order, and DEMO1.DMO broke. Although Duke didn't make direct use of the (differing) choice of weapon, that seemed to be sufficient for impacting random number generation.

[JacketAU]

I want to dig up sold quirky old Duke Nukem 1 and 2 facts now, do you think the evercade ports would be a good comparison to start with to the original versions? this topic is so amazing, it's a real gold mine of information, thank you so much for all your input everyone.

[ck3D]

It's commonly recognized the DUF BEER blimp in Stadium is a Simpsons reference, but I just remembered about this specific episode: https://simpsons.fan...s_Last_Gleaming

Episode air date I think aligns with the Duke 3D dev cycle and so it's very probable that as a late addition to Stadium, the blimp (or at least its final DUF BEER branding) implies it's supposed to be Sideshow Bob's precisely.

EDIT - I had underestimated how popular the trope is throughout the show, so I'd mitigate that impression now since a Duff blimp can be seen in two more pre-Duke 3D release Simpsons episodes: https://simpsons.fan...wiki/Duff_Blimp still, the one from that episode seems most prominent/influential and contemporary (the former episodes featuring a Duff Beer blimp being as old as from 1992 and 1993; Sideshow Bob one is from late 1995) and also resonates with the nuclear weapon theming.

[Ghostwar]

Hard to believe that I don't know the answer to this question after twenty five years of map building, but can anyone confirm if Mapster32 has the ability to remove the OSD overlay in order to take screenshots within the editor?

[Danukem]

Ghostwar, on 06 November 2024 - 09:58 AM, said:

Hard to believe that I don't know the answer to this question after twenty five years of map building, but can anyone confirm if Mapster32 has the ability to remove the OSD overlay in order to take screenshots within the editor?

I don't know, but there's a lot of really obscure keyboard combos that do things listed on this page:

https://wiki.eduke32...yboard_Commands

apparently F2 toggles the clipboard preview which is a big part of what you want - if you search the page for "toggle" there are other things you can turn off too