just like python2 has now been deprecated and removed from debian/ubuntu and most linux distros; it seems the time has come (overdue?) for GTK2 to go.
Per: https://lists.debian...1/msg00090.html
I understand it is very likely (although maybe not certain) Debian 14(Forky) will release without GTK2 at all; in any case lots of distributions going that way.
There are many bugs/projects afoot to get rid of remaining GTK2 dependencies.
EDuke32 builds optionally with GTK2, needed for the startup window. I get the impression this is important to many and will be missed on Linux...
Can we do an impact assessment and work out, how best to get rid of the dependency ?
It may not be that hard to migrate the code to use gtk3 base instead; indeed if I am back into some programming learning I may be willing to have a go some day.
I'm the lead developer of gtk2-ng. A fork for gtk2 with tons of bugfixes, modernisations and improvements like an icon view mode for the file chooser.
You can find the repo here https://git.devuan.o...onratte/gtk2-ng
Right now I'm getting rid of the last compiler warnings. Afterwards I'm going to add more features for the file chooser like lazy loading and asynchronous thumbnailing.
I also want to reach feature parity between the x11 and win32 backends. Then I'm going to add support for smooth scrolling, HiDPI and touch support.
There's a good chance that Debian 14 won't drop gtk2 as their graphical installer still uses it and they didn't port it yet. I'm also going to convince Ardour to switch to our fork after implementing the features I named above so Debian 14 has to offer gtk2 libraries anyways.
Fun fact: GTK3 will probably be depcrecated before GTK2 now, as they already want developers to migrate from GTK3 to GTK4 now.
This is still work in progress, but according to the lead developer of Basilisk browser gtk2-ng is already much faster than vanilla gtk2
source: https://forum.palemo...=33365&start=20
We're also going to improve the build system by for Windows users soon. Tests are already being done.
I'm the lead developer of gtk2-ng. A fork for gtk2 with tons of bugfixes, modernisations and improvements like an icon view mode for the file chooser. https://git.devuan.o...onratte/gtk2-ng
Right now I'm getting rid of the last compiler warnings. Afterwards I'm going to add more features for the file chooser like lazy loading and asynchronous thumbnailing.
Before going too far on 'feature creep'; please look to get your gtk2-ng stable and submitted into Debian [and thus of course Devuan] natively as well as Ardour and so-forth, so there is a credible possibility of it being wider-accepted and realistically something non-niche to rely upon for other software. I notice even Gnome2 successor MATE-Desktop has already migrated to GTK3, and from there GTK4 not a problem.
Before going too far on 'feature creep'; please look to get your gtk2-ng stable and submitted into Debian [and thus of course Devuan] natively as well as Ardour and so-forth, so there is a credible possibility of it being wider-accepted and realistically something non-niche to rely upon for other software. I notice even Gnome2 successor MATE-Desktop has already migrated to GTK3, and from there GTK4 not a problem.
The feature creep is my decision and it's already stable. It's already in the AUR and has been adopted by Artix Linux.
Just make sure you don't preemtively port your software to a toolkit that's already deprecated (or rather will be deprecated soon)
Regarding Mate, yeah, porting it over to GTK3 was really unpopular. That's why we're going to backport it to GTK2
This post has been edited by https://devuanusers.com/th: 11 May 2026 - 02:06 PM
The feature creep is my decision and it's already stable. It's already in the AUR
Makes sense; nonetheless no evidence as-yet this new gtk2 will become routinely available in distros generally.
Be helpful if you had a clear project statement, compatibility expectations, what the specific issues are that are being addressed.
Give clear examples of software that needs GTK2, exactly what problems you are trying to solve, and so-on and so-forth.
Also, makes sense to change GTK2 to GTK4 if remaining with GTK at all, though seems eduke32 is almost-entirely an SDL2 application.
Makes sense; nonetheless no evidence as-yet this new gtk2 will become routinely available in distros generally.
Be helpful if you had a clear project statement, compatibility expectations, what the specific issues are that are being addressed.
Give clear examples of software that needs GTK2, exactly what problems you are trying to solve, and so-on and so-forth.
The expectation looks like this:
You can take any application compiled against vanilla gtk2 and launch it will gtk2-ng and everything works as expected, but faster and with less bugs. The developer of the Basilisk browser tried a build compiled against vanilla gtk2 and tested it with gtk2-ng and said that it's already much faster. that was two weeks ago.
Please read about the specifics and info on deb files and testing isos here: https://git.devuan.o...onratte/gtk2-ng
Planned features include support for smooth scrolling, touch control and fractional scaling as well as a HaikuOS backend and having the win32 and quartz backends reach feature parity with x11. Soon there's be a CSS engine and a tool for easy theeming too. The file chooser now has an icon view mode too and I'll also add a compact view mode.
We also fixed countless bugs already (memory leaks, wrong bindings for other languages, performance bugs) and we made sure you can compile it on bleeding edge systems.
Applications that still use gtk2 in one way or another would be Ardour, Hexchat, the graphical Debian installer, Pidgin, gkrellm and many people prefer to use Pale Moon, Basilisk, Gimp, Audacity, LXDE, Mate, XFCE, etc with gtk2, because they simply hate gtk3.
Also, makes sense to change GTK2 to GTK4 if remaining with GTK at all, though seems eduke32 is almost-entirely an SDL2 application.
It took Gimp years top migrate to GTK3 (because they removed so many features, forcing them to rewrite many parts) and GTK4 made sure to make the migration even more painful and what's the reward for your effort?
It runs worse, it looks worse, many people will refuse to use it, because they hate GTK3 and 4 and you wasted a ton of time. But hey, it's "new".
And while eduke32 might mostly use sdl: Lists, dialogues, windows, theming, buttons, boxes, etc all use gtk2. not sdl.
This post has been edited by https://devuanusers.com/th: 14 May 2026 - 10:21 PM
The expectation looks like this:
You can take any application compiled against vanilla gtk2 and launch it will gtk2-ng and everything works as expected, but faster and with less bugs
Good; What I'm trying to get across here is, as a project, for credibility, the information you provided should be nicely organised on a project web page, interested other parties involved, etc, communication channels set up there, and so-forth, where this discussion should really continue.
The scope, support expectations, reasons, everything should be there [not so much in this forum]. Try to get feedback on this, get it organised etc. for good reasons (crucially not just looking like a special niche thing), With everything nicely QA'ed, then work with distros to get credible gtk2-ng into more distros in its' own right.
So far as EDuke32 is concerned, if gtk2 or gtk2-ng is not available in distributions widespread; one option would be to embed gtk2-ng with it, not relying on system gtk2.
Good; What I'm trying to get across here is, as a project, for credibility, the information you provided should be nicely organised on a project web page, interested other parties involved, etc, communication channels set up there, and so-forth, where this discussion should really continue.
The scope, support expectations, reasons, everything should be there [not so much in this forum]. Try to get feedback on this, get it organised etc. for good reasons (crucially not just looking like a special niche thing), With everything nicely QA'ed, then work with distros to get credible gtk2-ng into more distros in its' own right.
Every single time you replied with suggestions that have LONG been taken care of, dude xD
enyc, on 15 May 2026 - 12:39 AM, said:
So far as EDuke32 is concerned, if gtk2 or gtk2-ng is not available in distributions widespread; one option would be to embed gtk2-ng with it, not relying on system gtk2.
I have a good feeling about distros packaging gtk2-ng, but in case they don't this would be an easy solution.
Part of the reason we're doing this is so developers can work on their projects instead of having to invest precious time in rewriting software, because some company decided that popular toolkits or programming languages are now "deprecated"
This post has been edited by https://devuanusers.com/th: 15 May 2026 - 07:37 AM
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