[ck3D]

A ten-minute long little map I made this week. Enjoy.

[zykov eddy]

I have to say, this was one of the most unusual maps I've ever played, although my experience was spoiled greatly by the number of bugs I've encountered, and moments when I got stuck. Maybe it's because I wasn't playing on the latest version of EDue32?

Here are the bugs/problems:

* Player can open Sound Room doors even without using the access card;
* Player can enter both "player" and "reviwer" rooms and collect items there, is that normal?
* In the drawing room, player can press switches on the canvas multiple times, resulting in a messed up sequence. I had to noclip to get the card, because there was no way to know which switches I've pressed;
* Sound room challenge can be easily beaten by using the map;
* Player can destroy the weather girl sprites;
* Why the player given so many ammo when there's no monsters in the map, and switch based enemies can be defeated with a few shots from the pistol?
* Couldn't find a way to open the group therapy room;

Some of the effects and architecture in this map impressed me greatly! Definitely one of my favorite maps of yours by far. Even though it's short, you can see that a lot of effort was put into it. I just wish that the bugs didn't spoil it for me.

[ck3D]

Thanks a lot for the detailed reports, some of that stuff is intended (access to all rooms at the start, map in Sound Room) but some isn't (destructable girl and the Sound Room being unlocked, although it's convenient it is), the map drained a week worth of energy from me so I must admit I didn't test it very thoroughly. I will need to revise it,

To open the Group Therapy room you need to play Duck Hunt.

Drawing puzzle really sucks when out of sequence but it's a bit of a troll to impatience in general. I don't think it can really break but it can become a nightmare, whereas when done meticulously is so easy. Originally I had the switches disappear into the ground but then I once managed to break sequence on that setup regardless and now that made the puzzle completely impossible since the switches had become unreachable.

How much of the ammo gets used up totally depends on which direction the map takes for the player. Which ending was yours?

[ck3D]

This version fixes all of the unintended stuff, I think. Now the yellow doors are actually locked although it wasn't so bad to have as a fake out in case the player messes up on the canvas. Should no longer be able to kill Lola too. But depending on your approach to the events, she might fuck you up still. Also refined the hitboxes of the mortars in the Sound Room a little since they weren't so fine, and fixed minor texture issues I found.

Merely a fun fact, one remaining particularity is one of the sections has a building that is set up to be explodable, but doesn't blow up due to a mistagged crack sprite. That has no effect on gameplay however, whereas it turns out that fixing it would introduce new problems, so that's going to stay dormant until I ever decide to address it. The automatic shooters in one other part also do not turn off once the part is completed, for some reason, in spite of being rigged properly. Not too sure why and I will investigate that, but for now be careful.

[Dr.Panico]

Cool map! Love how we're on a roll when it comes to experimental maps these days.

This was a tricky one; a real test of patience like you've said - it's pretty easy to get stuck because you pushed a switch too many times or you run out of ammo in the final battle. Although at the very least the Shooting Gallery had a lifeline should you run out of bullets.

Pretty unique stuff. I just don't get the Battlelord reflection in the Drawning Therapy room. What is it supposed to be? I thought it was going to be another NPC, just one that got swallowed by a glitchy Build engine mirror.

[ck3D]

Thanks for playing and for the feedback. The Battlelord face is just a reflection of Duke's trauma, once you've painted it it goes away. Which end battle was it that you found/fought? This map has multiple. There is one specific point in the story where a turn is possible, and then within that alternative reality itself there is another pivot. But which choices make sense and thus which events naturally occur entirely depend on the psychology of the player.

[ck3D]

Here's what hopefully is the last update on the map. It fixes the jank of the canvas puzzle, fixes the aforementioned building demolition that wasn't working, fixes leftover fullbright visibility in some vents, and also now the broken automatic shooters seem to work although I barely remember touching them. So it should play completely as intended now. Sorry for a half baked, buggy release (and mess of posts), this was a very spontaneous map that happened in a burst and although I did test it a lot whilst making it, by the end of the process I was exhausted and couldn't keep up with all the possibilities, but now should be fine. Thank you for your patience.

EDIT - upon further testing the shooters weren't completely fixed, but I found out what was causing them to act loose (presence of a MASTERSWITCH with matching channel somewhere else in the map), now they are fixed for good. Also fixed more loose textures.

[Dr.Panico]

Here's Mikko's review:
https://msdn.duke4.net/hotmsbtcc.php

[ck3D]

Ha, you just beat me at posting it. I have removed my attachment since the MSDN link has the ultimate version, changelog from the previous one is the Duck Hunt puzzle is better marked, the fences in the Target Practice area got flipped so that the horizontal bar wouldn't get in the way of the aiming so much, one of the last Lola's is a bit less difficult to press, and I've slightly readjusted a few sound effects too. Now I feel like I can put this one to rest. Very happy Mikko enjoyed the level. I wanted to make something cheeky but not punishing and now with the recent touch-ups feel like I have succeeded. Thanks a lot for the feedback, again. Maybe at some later point I should post all of the available routes although they really aren't so difficult to find at all if one even just suspects that they exist.

One rectification (that also doubles up as a hint) I would add to the review is you do not exactly "chase" a woman in one of the endings. You are actually escaping an imposed responsibility, and it may or may not catch up depending on how determined you are. So if anything, "chasing" would be more akin to the acceptation that is the other ending.

One of my ideas was, I wanted to experiment with Duke 3D map rom com just to see if that would even work.

[Jan Satcitananda]

I like this kind of maps. It's always intriguing to see some fresh gameplay ideas and various crazy stuff, but keep in mind that such maps also require careful playtesting and a decent knowledge of how the game works, definitely not for a one-week project. MSBTCC clearly takes an experimental route while maintaining your own distinctive style, with that mangled lettering of the stock textures and also a sector-based boss.

I can see you've fixed some bugs, still you can grab the yellow card right through the force fields without shooting any targets in the target test. However, the blue card protected in the same fashion is far enough to prevent Duke from getting it until all forcefields are removed. I suppose you were going to fix both keycards but fixed only the blue one. With this shortcut taken, the map can be speedrun in about 2:30.

[ck3D]

Thanks for the feedback, no I never had to try to fix any key like that because the yellow one never broke on me when I did try. It was the yellow lock that used to be broken because I had simply forgotten to lock some of the doors. Something must have interrupted me when I had begun to do it and then I guess I forgot to continue putting in the locks. Stupid but easily solved. Maybe I will just let that one new bug be, I'm quite over this map now, if it helps speedrunning that's cool, not to mention that specific section can be annoying on replays.

I do not choose how the maps happen. If one takes a week to make then it had to take a week to make or it most likely would not have happened at all, or would have been different according to a different vision. In this specific case I reckon an extra night of sleep before release wouldn't have hurt, but it's also not trying to be It Lives or comparable. I was just out of energy - Lola's got a mean right hook.

I'm also thinking, maybe experimental/speed maps benefit from just happening in one spontaneous, explosive burst. Reiteration and micromanagement may be carcinogens to the creativity otherwise as they just allow time for the standards you want to defy to set in. Obviously, straight up rushing a map is different. This one was just rushed out a bit. But it is fine now.

[Jan Satcitananda]

ck3D, on 22 September 2025 - 03:42 AM, said:

I'm also thinking, maybe experimental/speed maps benefit from just happening in one spontaneous, explosive burst. Reiteration and micromanagement may be carcinogens to the creativity otherwise as they just allow time for the standards you want to defy to set in. Obviously, straight up rushing a map is different. This one was just rushed out a bit. But it is fine now.

I understand your point; and yes, staying on a single map for too long increases the chance of burning out and taking even longer breaks, or never actually finishing it. Setting a time limit may be a good measure against excess bloat and over-engineering, although you probably don't want to be very strict about it. I know I can't meet deadlines, but I've set up a rule that any "finished" work I release never gets changed or updated afterwards, leaving any inconsistency as is, so it becomes part of history along with its imperfections, and I could proceed to other projects.

[lllllllllllllll]

The target range puts Babeland to shame