[ck3D]

A ten-minute long little map I made this week. Enjoy.

[zykov eddy]

I have to say, this was one of the most unusual maps I've ever played, although my experience was spoiled greatly by the number of bugs I've encountered, and moments when I got stuck. Maybe it's because I wasn't playing on the latest version of EDue32?

Here are the bugs/problems:

* Player can open Sound Room doors even without using the access card;
* Player can enter both "player" and "reviwer" rooms and collect items there, is that normal?
* In the drawing room, player can press switches on the canvas multiple times, resulting in a messed up sequence. I had to noclip to get the card, because there was no way to know which switches I've pressed;
* Sound room challenge can be easily beaten by using the map;
* Player can destroy the weather girl sprites;
* Why the player given so many ammo when there's no monsters in the map, and switch based enemies can be defeated with a few shots from the pistol?
* Couldn't find a way to open the group therapy room;

Some of the effects and architecture in this map impressed me greatly! Definitely one of my favorite maps of yours by far. Even though it's short, you can see that a lot of effort was put into it. I just wish that the bugs didn't spoil it for me.

[ck3D]

Thanks a lot for the detailed reports, some of that stuff is intended (access to all rooms at the start, map in Sound Room) but some isn't (destructable girl and the Sound Room being unlocked, although it's convenient it is), the map drained a week worth of energy from me so I must admit I didn't test it very thoroughly. I will need to revise it,

To open the Group Therapy room you need to play Duck Hunt.

Drawing puzzle really sucks when out of sequence but it's a bit of a troll to impatience in general. I don't think it can really break but it can become a nightmare, whereas when done meticulously is so easy. Originally I had the switches disappear into the ground but then I once managed to break sequence on that setup regardless and now that made the puzzle completely impossible since the switches had become unreachable.

How much of the ammo gets used up totally depends on which direction the map takes for the player. Which ending was yours?

[ck3D]

This version fixes all of the unintended stuff, I think. Now the yellow doors are actually locked although it wasn't so bad to have as a fake out in case the player messes up on the canvas. Should no longer be able to kill Lola too. But depending on your approach to the events, she might fuck you up still. Also refined the hitboxes of the mortars in the Sound Room a little since they weren't so fine, and fixed minor texture issues I found.

Merely a fun fact, one remaining particularity is one of the sections has a building that is set up to be explodable, but doesn't blow up due to a mistagged crack sprite. That has no effect on gameplay however, whereas it turns out that fixing it would introduce new problems, so that's going to stay dormant until I ever decide to address it. The automatic shooters in one other part also do not turn off once the part is completed, for some reason, in spite of being rigged properly. Not too sure why and I will investigate that, but for now be careful.

[Dr.Panico]

Cool map! Love how we're on a roll when it comes to experimental maps these days.

This was a tricky one; a real test of patience like you've said - it's pretty easy to get stuck because you pushed a switch too many times or you run out of ammo in the final battle. Although at the very least the Shooting Gallery had a lifeline should you run out of bullets.

Pretty unique stuff. I just don't get the Battlelord reflection in the Drawning Therapy room. What is it supposed to be? I thought it was going to be another NPC, just one that got swallowed by a glitchy Build engine mirror.

[ck3D]

Thanks for playing and for the feedback. The Battlelord face is just a reflection of Duke's trauma, once you've painted it it goes away. Which end battle was it that you found/fought? This map has multiple. There is one specific point in the story where a turn is possible, and then within that alternative reality itself there is another pivot. But which choices make sense and thus which events naturally occur entirely depend on the psychology of the player.

[ck3D]

Here's what hopefully is the last update on the map. It fixes the jank of the canvas puzzle, fixes the aforementioned building demolition that wasn't working, fixes leftover fullbright visibility in some vents, and also now the broken automatic shooters seem to work although I barely remember touching them. So it should play completely as intended now. Sorry for a half baked, buggy release (and mess of posts), this was a very spontaneous map that happened in a burst and although I did test it a lot whilst making it, by the end of the process I was exhausted and couldn't keep up with all the possibilities, but now should be fine. Thank you for your patience.

EDIT - upon further testing the shooters weren't completely fixed, but I found out what was causing them to act loose (presence of a MASTERSWITCH with matching channel somewhere else in the map), now they are fixed for good. Also fixed more loose textures.

[Dr.Panico]

Here's Mikko's review:
https://msdn.duke4.net/hotmsbtcc.php

[ck3D]

Ha, you just beat me at posting it. I have removed my attachment since the MSDN link has the ultimate version, changelog from the previous one is the Duck Hunt puzzle is better marked, the fences in the Target Practice area got flipped so that the horizontal bar wouldn't get in the way of the aiming so much, one of the last Lola's is a bit less difficult to press, and I've slightly readjusted a few sound effects too. Now I feel like I can put this one to rest. Very happy Mikko enjoyed the level. I wanted to make something cheeky but not punishing and now with the recent touch-ups feel like I have succeeded. Thanks a lot for the feedback, again. Maybe at some later point I should post all of the available routes although they really aren't so difficult to find at all if one even just suspects that they exist.

One rectification (that also doubles up as a hint) I would add to the review is you do not exactly "chase" a woman in one of the endings. You are actually escaping an imposed responsibility, and it may or may not catch up depending on how determined you are. So if anything, "chasing" would be more akin to the acceptation that is the other ending.

One of my ideas was, I wanted to experiment with Duke 3D map rom com just to see if that would even work.

[Jan Satcitananda]

I like this kind of maps. It's always intriguing to see some fresh gameplay ideas and various crazy stuff, but keep in mind that such maps also require careful playtesting and a decent knowledge of how the game works, definitely not for a one-week project. MSBTCC clearly takes an experimental route while maintaining your own distinctive style, with that mangled lettering of the stock textures and also a sector-based boss.

I can see you've fixed some bugs, still you can grab the yellow card right through the force fields without shooting any targets in the target test. However, the blue card protected in the same fashion is far enough to prevent Duke from getting it until all forcefields are removed. I suppose you were going to fix both keycards but fixed only the blue one. With this shortcut taken, the map can be speedrun in about 2:30.

[ck3D]

Thanks for the feedback, no I never had to try to fix any key like that because the yellow one never broke on me when I did try. It was the yellow lock that used to be broken because I had simply forgotten to lock some of the doors. Something must have interrupted me when I had begun to do it and then I guess I forgot to continue putting in the locks. Stupid but easily solved. Maybe I will just let that one new bug be, I'm quite over this map now, if it helps speedrunning that's cool, not to mention that specific section can be annoying on replays.

I do not choose how the maps happen. If one takes a week to make then it had to take a week to make or it most likely would not have happened at all, or would have been different according to a different vision. In this specific case I reckon an extra night of sleep before release wouldn't have hurt, but it's also not trying to be It Lives or comparable. I was just out of energy - Lola's got a mean right hook.

I'm also thinking, maybe experimental/speed maps benefit from just happening in one spontaneous, explosive burst. Reiteration and micromanagement may be carcinogens to the creativity otherwise as they just allow time for the standards you want to defy to set in. Obviously, straight up rushing a map is different. This one was just rushed out a bit. But it is fine now.

[Jan Satcitananda]

 ck3D, on 22 September 2025 - 03:42 AM, said:

I'm also thinking, maybe experimental/speed maps benefit from just happening in one spontaneous, explosive burst. Reiteration and micromanagement may be carcinogens to the creativity otherwise as they just allow time for the standards you want to defy to set in. Obviously, straight up rushing a map is different. This one was just rushed out a bit. But it is fine now.

I understand your point; and yes, staying on a single map for too long increases the chance of burning out and taking even longer breaks, or never actually finishing it. Setting a time limit may be a good measure against excess bloat and over-engineering, although you probably don't want to be very strict about it. I know I can't meet deadlines, but I've set up a rule that any "finished" work I release never gets changed or updated afterwards, leaving any inconsistency as is, so it becomes part of history along with its imperfections, and I could proceed to other projects.

[lllllllllllllll]

The target range puts Babeland to shame

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

I really liked the effects in this map, such as everything in the art therapy room, the exposure therapy, and the group therapy room. The TROR was cool too. Always nice to see you still using stock Duke 3D tiles that had text on them to make new sentences. It's one of those effects that always amuses me.

The non-violent (for the most part) gameplay was a fun take on your typical Duke 3D map. Wish some of the targets in the shooting range weren't so far away or so fast. I ended up checking to see if the forcefield went down every time I hit one of the tricky ones instead of making sure I hit all the targets before going for the key.

The "comfort" sections, the "neurotypical" hall, and the "no ammo" room in the shooting gallery got a chuckle out of me.

The one thing that threw me off was getting access to the group therapy room. I thought the targets you were supposed to shoot on the computer screen were just details to liven up the map, not something you have to shoot the progress. Eventually figured it out by noticing that a button sound was played when I used the computer screen, which lead to me putting 2 + 2 together and trying to shoot the targets. The final fight was confusing at first, but then I realized that I overestimated how fast the Devastator's rockets are and compensated my aim accordingly. Then it was a cinch.

Some would complain that it's too short, but I found the level was the right length for what it was trying to do.

All in all, a good map that mixes cool Build engine effects and unorthodox but fun gameplay into an enjoyable experience.

[ck3D]

Thanks for playing and happy you liked it. I have responded on Discord but will copy that here too so the info is public and the boards are not so dead.

I almost included hints on how to kill the giant boss but instead used the opportunity to try and design it in a visually explicit way so it would be evident (somewhat) that explosives do something. It used to have about twice the HP too but I figured that was too much. Now it takes about 20 explosives to destroy its platform/"jetpack" then one more bullet to make it realize it is gone which is a bit Looney Tunesque.

I know for sure you have seen at least two endings now but there are two more possible ones depending on whether you "accept" Lola or run away after you have realized she will ruin your life. Lola is her name bc the closest one to "roar" I could think of, by the way. Plus it has "lol" in it.

[duke64nukem]

I didn't finish this yet. Just wanted to jump on and say this is pretty dmn fun of a map and the music is going to it. Interesting.

[ck3D]

Thank you, I am happy you like it. Maybe in a way finishing this map does not mean so much, it is all about the experience.



Speaking of which, Nacho/TLOD will be streaming a blind run later today and it should be interesting to see his.

[Merlijn]

Very cool and inventive puzzle map, with a good dose of humor as well (both the trauma rooms and the Lola storyline got a chuckle out of me).
Recommended! Even if you don't like puzzle maps, this one is pretty short and not too challenging.

The shooting range was probably my favorite.

[Paul B]

Unbelievable map! After immediately playing this map I couldn't let it sit idle. This map is a work of art. If anyone wants to contribute a proper review for this map that I can use on my site I would greatly appreciate it. But for now here's another download location for it.


Battlelord Trauma Center

[ck3D]

Thanks for the kind words, happy you liked the map this much. The Build tricks themselves actually aren't so advanced and really either fine (as in tedious, but not so complex) tiny applications of the classic SE31 in subtle touches, or simple messing around with basic moving sectors and rendering tricks in general. The most technical part of the map must be the double overlap of the city at the end (see screenshots), there exists two layers of it that co-exist in SOS space for no particular reason but that somehow it's the way it naturally came to me to make it, when I'm sure TROR or even more normal SOS would have done just fine. I had pulled a (less precise, wonkier) version of that trick before in the first level of Blast Radius but such redundancy in resource use is something ancient I'm trying to leave behind a little now that with TROR you can make flawless sector stacks that actually portal from one into another organically.




Also posting an updated version of the map with some misaligned textures I found in the Abyss-themed part of the ground floor that are now fixed.

Bonus: list of possible endings:

Spoiler

- Neurotypical ending: for those who have no business playing the map.

- Follow the storyline in a way that submits to the doctor's orders until the end. Accept your fate without a fight, and then enjoy your demons.

After the big reveal and before you follow the doctor's ultimate orders, leave the pool and notice the vent that has opened for just this window of time. Take the opportunity to try and leave. This is the key to the next two possible endings:

- Evade Lola trying to catch up (her sector is dynamically lit a bit differently from the rest of the room, so you can tell what her reach is if paying close attention), climb onto the roof, wait for the chopper to come down, press use on the chopper.

- Get within Lola's reach and she will punch you back to the starting point of the map that was Intensive Care, except now the building is filled with Battlelord shadows. Make your way back down to the Abyss-themed lobby, and then defeat the real Battlelord there.

Attached File(s)

•  MSBTCC.rar (157.77K)
  Number of downloads: 22

[slacker1]

I love puzzle maps and I liked this one a lot. I ran into one blocker that I ended up cheating for:

Spoiler

I couldn't figure out how to open the group therapy section! I went back around the map multiple times and I couldn't get the doors to open. So I noclipped through them to continue.

[ck3D]

Happy you liked it and thanks for the comment. About that part:

Spoiler

The solution is in the room itself at the admissions desk, you can use the computer there to play Duck Hunt, which will unlock the door. It is the most obscure bit of the level for sure but should be solvable if the player has noticed how the crosshair sprite is generally used to mark shootable stuff around the map (although at this point, it is true only the shooting range room has established that).

It's been a different kind of challenge as a mapper recently with that trilogy of experimental maps having to train the player to shoot at walls

P.S.. I didn't think about mentioning that earlier but for the curious/interested, in TLOD's stream, after he is done with this map, he can be watched playing through my unreleased episode of some of my first ever maps from back in 2002. It's shit and broken in many ways but I think I only ever shared it twice on temporary platforms and so that may be the closest glimpse most people will get at it.

[Aleks]

I have played this one almost 2 weeks ago, but only managed to squeeze some comments on Discord, and it's definitely worth turning it into a full post here.

Loved the map - so much cool stuff and the "RPG" aspect was very well done (and in a different way than you'd usually understand what RPG stands for in Duke). Probably my favourite Aymeric map since BR. And I liked how you made a twist on the "trauma" theme just in time when it started to run out by putting Lola plot on the foreground.
The big boss fight took me a bit to figure what am I supposed to aim at/what projectiles to use and I thought it was a bit tedious after a bit, but that's probably my only criticism.

Drawing therapy, sound room (now I have no idea how that would really help anyone with their trauma, but the concept was cool), shooting range and group therapy were all realised flawlessly though.

And nice touch with the DIG "challenge" which was challenging indeed, but not impossible, with the map's length replayability was a welcome added value. Also all the different endings were quite cool and distinctive, altogether this map probably had more to its storyline than the entire DN3D

[ck3D]

Ha that's so cool you liked it, I am no longer on Discord at and for the moment and so I can't read any of the feedback on there right now so it's great you shared it here. Really that app is convenient for communicating when working on projects but such a timesink otherwise, I'm starting to realize that maybe as mappers we have no business using it at all, and even to teach newcomers on here in the form of hard posts may be more efficient (and perene).

Sound room is supposed to instill positive association regarding the mortars, since in there they reward you with items and following them leads the path (in addition to the ambient Abyss sounds), and so it is supposed to be reassurance as you pick them up one by one just like a lot of the other rooms in the map persuade you that the Battlelords can not hurt you until (if) you meet the first one that does. But it's kind of wonky in execution, I honestly couldn't bother adjusting the radiuses to the very unit after the fact since this is a bit of a speed map and so it likely is possible to throw things off and just end up confused about what's happening, that's not on you.

The sector boss also kind of was practice (but what isn't), the ones in W.A.R.T.H.U.G.Z. I'm pretty sure all are better versions of it essentially. Not all easier but hopefully better communicated. Fun fact - the Battlelord chimera used to be half Battlelord half Lola (with her arms and hands supporting the Battlelord guns) to better represent their merge into one big personal trauma, but it looked really goofy and so seemed better to cut and make 100% Battlelord chimera. But even then it is not so good.

DIG is fun because of all the level loops you can escape through and/or lure the enemy into.

[Mike Norvak]

I'm gonna be a bit hard on this one, while I loved the architecture and awesome technical approach on the map effects, I really don't get who this clinic is for? Duke? The player? (So it's run by real life Mikko Sandt) Is "trauma" an equivalent for expectations/cliches gameplay-wise regarding Battlelords? First I was expecting the care center was intended for Battlelords so they can cure all the trauma caused by Duke, maybe this expectation totally twisted my perception of the map (first I thought The Battlelord had a delirious of being Duke Nukem, but this hipotesis fall down after playing a bit more of the map)

I remember you repeatedly talk about Duke game language, but I'm trying to understand how this applies here, since basically you broke some of the logic (especially in the screen thay unlocks the group room) because there's no signaling or visual cues to know that the screen is interactive and not just decoration (the inverse of a C9 that doesn't explode) Also there's no previous mechanic that shows the player that you can shoot targets in screens (an example of this mechanic could have been inserted to get out of the first room in the map for example, so "it rhymes" with the latest instance and prepares the player mentally to do the same task again)

(Me nitpicking again) Why is there a switch in the bathroom to unlock the lobby? There's no apparent logic relation or any coherence with the previous dynamics (you find keycards by passing through different tests/therapy types but not in this floor. The map felt really Doom-like in terms of layout (not a bad thing)

On the other hand... I liked the Lola plotline and the "3 paths pun" (player, reviewer and neurotypical) and the sector over sector logic behind it, I would have loved to see more of these kind of impossible architecture all over the clinic. I really enjoyed the fact that you always manage to push the boundaries of mapping with every map, and this is actually the one that made me launch eDuke again

[ck3D]

I don't think you're being difficult on the map, that is all fair criticism and about the plot, I'm especially satisfied that it seemed to raise more questions than solve. I like to understand Duke as an avatar for the player and play with it sometimes in maps ('first person' is a powerful entitlement that can come with responsibility), and so if the boundaries are not clear in one where I do (and the Blast Radius end game also is a lot like that) then that means I succeeded at whatever the map had to achieve. On the other hand, whenever I don't want to play with feelings all that much is when I make a more straightforward and explicit action map. Just I have made so many of these over the years and now any excuse is good to keep it fresh, be it structural with layout experiments or by using different bits of the Duke 3D emotional palette depending on project.

But yeah, the care center obviously is intended for Duke/the player (but I know it's only obvious once you're already checked in), the döppelgangers have to represent each one a different occurrence of canonically getting ambushed by a Battlelord for Duke, and getting screwed over by terrible Battlelord placement in 30 years of user maps that have been using them for the player. But if one is resilient enough (or just casual with no trauma backlog) then they don't have to subject themselves to the treatment that is the map and they can just leave as soon as they realize where they landed, it makes sense that if they have nothing to overcome then they have won.

The relationship of the map with the game language indeed is funny, you will find that the entire point is it really doesn't use anything that the base game taught (which could be considered part of the treatment as you let go of habits, but then also of your defense), since therapy is for a subject to figure things out - but precisely the Battlelord imagery, also with the bottom floor being an alternate version of his final arena in the original Abyss with extra dimensions to it (which interestingly dumbs it down in a way, or so I find). The 'toilet test' is to check whether Duke shits himself at the apparent sight of the enemy or can keep holding it to the toilet, which is why the switch you have to use to progress makes that sound. But altogether it is a luxury to be able to deliberately go this bold and it only is because I've learned to understand (and am able to verbalize) which precise game language elements it is I'm manipulating (in this case omitting) that I can do it. Under the simplistic umbrella of 'bad design' is a number of tools one can articulate to know not just exactly where they will hit with it but also exactly how, and exactly how hard, but it is some time spent studying the game as well as player psychology fundamentals before getting there. Inherently any mapper taps into it, but control over every aspect of the experience is learned, and what's more, it isn't even complex at all once you recognize the handful of patterns that really matter. Then all that is difficult to escape always is tunnel vision that might get in the way but also sometimes happen to be a strength.

The map does do some cool stuff with architecture all around although it isn't very interesting or noticeable, there is the stacked double city at the end like I've shown which is absurd and unreasonable but somehow ambitious SOS, I think the way the last arena rooftop ties back to the central TROR layer seamlessly through the vent in spite of being completely disconnected is pretty cool but yeah that's about it. Whole clinic is SOS and just TROR'd up but it isn't the most interesting layout (if anything it's a dumbed down version of something else I've been making), I like to push SOS/TROR but it would be wasted effort to put structures with actual functional potential into a joke level, when those ideas can be put to use towards something cooler. I appreciate the feedback and am honored the map reeled you back in!