[zykov eddy]

Thank you very much! I'm glad you found this map worth of replaying.

 slacker1, on 28 March 2024 - 11:56 AM, said:

Spoiler

I downloaded the map the first day it was released and played that version.. Then I noticed another version was uploaded and then I think a third version. Is there any big differences between these? I suppose I should do my next reply with the latest one...

Read the thread and you'll understand why the map was constantly updated. Two first uploads contained a very notorious bug that spawned multiple RPGs, showed an error message, and that left some players confused. I fixed the bug, and now, players can, hopefully, play the map as intended.

Spoiler

I suggest archiving the first version for historical reasons, as it will never be reuploaded anywhere. It contains the original scripted error sequence that rewards player's curiocity and a will to explore, and this was the reason why some players got confused, as they thought that an error was actually real, and left the map at this point. Sadly, it also doesn't play Duke's screams in the black void area, and mirror Doppleganger is kinda broken, but nothing too major. Both issues fixed now.

To be honest, I took map's initial reception as part of the whole experience. Map so twisted and broken, its corrupted nature poured out into the thread. Can you tell which initial replies in the thread are honest and which aren't? I can't at this point. But that's what you get when you mix dreams and reality. You can't tell them apart.

[Sangman]

Got intrigued by the responses so played it - every other mapper can pack it up, Eddy's delivered a top notch unique map here that is more than likely not gonna be topped this year.

 Aleks, on 28 March 2024 - 03:28 AM, said:

Played a bit, the map/mod seems really fine. Unfortunately, I got stuck after the vehicle section, the car/driving mechanics and animations are working really well, but I can't exit the car after reaching what seems to be my destination...

I don't even know what section you're talking about here, I didn't encounter any drivable vehicle. Is that something the cinema keys unlock? Sadly I only found 2 of them.

More feedback here, but this map really needs to be experienced without knowing what to expect so I wouldn't recommend reading it until you've played it

Spoiler

As Dr Panico pointed out this map basically plays like a creepypasta thing.
I'm a bit annoyed/stressed by the slenderman-like gameplay with an unkillable entity chasing you, it fits the map but I'm thankful those sections were really short. I'd like to play it again to find all the keys, but those sections make me a bit hesitant really..
One issue I had near the end makes this map something just shy of perfection, I didn't realize what the code at the end was until Eddy told me where to see it, it wasn't really all that cryptic but if you're like me and have the same reflexes like you would playing a regular Duke map you're unlikely to catch it quickly..

Still this is a truly good horror map with design elements that speak to a deep understanding of how horror in games properly works. First the horror enemies aren't actually all that deadly (which is great cause the only thing that kills suspense is having to redo a section after getting killed).
In the vein of Doom's myhouse.wad the map itself feels like the enemy. I had cold sweat throughout most of it.

Had the sermon video on repeat as requested and I suppose it added some ambience to the map, but if it was supposed to give hints to certain secrets or some such I definitely didn't catch that

[zykov eddy]

 Sangman, on 28 March 2024 - 02:57 PM, said:

Got intrigued by the responses so played it - every other mapper can pack it up, Eddy's delivered a top notch unique map here that is more than likely not gonna be topped this year.



I don't even know what section you're talking about here, I didn't encounter any drivable vehicle. Is that something the cinema keys unlock? Sadly I only found 2 of them.

More feedback here, but this map really needs to be experienced without knowing what to expect so I wouldn't recommend reading it until you've played it

Spoiler

As Dr Panico pointed out this map basically plays like a creepypasta thing.
I'm a bit annoyed/stressed by the slenderman-like gameplay with an unkillable entity chasing you, it fits the map but I'm thankful those sections were really short. I'd like to play it again to find all the keys, but those sections make me a bit hesitant really..
One issue I had near the end makes this map something just shy of perfection, I didn't realize what the code at the end was until Eddy told me where to see it, it wasn't really all that cryptic but if you're like me and have the same reflexes like you would playing a regular Duke map you're unlikely to catch it quickly..

Still this is a truly good horror map with design elements that speak to a deep understanding of how horror in games properly works. First the horror enemies aren't actually all that deadly (which is great cause the only thing that kills suspense is having to redo a section after getting killed).
In the vein of Doom's myhouse.wad the map itself feels like the enemy. I had cold sweat throughout most of it.

Had the sermon video on repeat as requested and I suppose it added some ambience to the map, but if it was supposed to give hints to certain secrets or some such I definitely didn't catch that

Thank you for a much-needed feedback!

Spoiler

I agree about the unkillable entities. I've done so many horror stuff in the past, it's now a normal type of enemy for me to include in the map. It's just a trope that reliably works. Thankfully there are very few of them, and most enemies are killable. You're playing as Duke, after all. There's still ass kicking to be done.

Added a hint on how to complete the Keymaster section.

The video does not give any hints and is actually just a trolling message to confuse the player. Changed the line in the code so the players wouldn't get the idea to have it on repeat the entire map.

There's probably about 10 different versions of this map floating around, all with very minor differences. But that's part of the mystery of this map. Each copy is personalised.

[stillTodd]

WELL played, Zykov Eddie! Great stuff

[Doom64hunter]

Cool stuff.

Spoiler

Here's a tip for denying access to the automap: Put it into a display event like follows:

appendevent EVENT_DISPLAYSTART
    ifn deny_automap 0
        setu[].overhead_on 0
endevent

This will prevent it from flashing on the screen, as it currently does.

Similar applies to locking the player's view, if you do it inside a display event, the camera won't jitter anymore (though maybe that enhances the effect here, up to you).

[quakis]

Neat classic style map, oops, I added a spoiler tag by accident, please ignore that.

Spoiler

Based off your prior work, expecting a "normal" release was definitely out of the picture and just had to jump in before everything ends up spoilt. However my thoughts are mixed and it's not entirely the map's fault per se.

On the one hand I do love your presentation from both a visual and technical perspective, going from classic style a user map into E1L1 and then warping that space overtime was incredibly engaging, soaking with an unbearable atmosphere. I did enjoy many of the ideas at play, especially with a Duke flavour attached. I liked how it played with your expectations and became a little meta at times as if the game/eduke itself is coming alive. I can see aspects of The Wall and Kill City here which I've enjoyed in the past, a mood piece with a little Duke trickery to spice up the adventure. Familiar places falling into ruin, twists on expected results and how normality is slowly dripping away. The new "babe" variant was a great touch.

On the other hand, and this enters highly subjective territory and entirely coming off from my own preferences surrounding horror gaming, but having seen this particular style of horror often enough over the years from other games, the overall effect was mostly lost on me quite early on. I could almost read the room where things were progressing. I do appreciate what's going on behind the curtain and enjoy it from that angle though. I become highly critical with horror stuff not only because it's one of my favourite genres but haven't been feeling it in recent years as its grown far too stagnant for a long time now. There's so much untapped potential yet find most works lean too heavily on current trends, repeating what's come before and never quite evolving beyond that. Memories falls under the same trappings which is a shame because the feats shown off here could have really pulled off something it could call its own with a Duke coat of paint. For me Memories is like a blend of "imscared" and Doom's myhouse.pk3, with aspects of Slenderman style games (or its many copycats/flavours) along with the whole backrooms/poolrooms thing that's been a dominant theme as of late. From a Duke3D perspective it can be a fresh experience, especially for folk with little horror gaming under their belt. For me it sadly wasn't and might have gobbled this up without much further thought maybe a decade ago.

I must stress that as a whole Memories is still an excellent level and piece of work that I couldn't put down simply because I wanted to see what visual and auditory showcases you had in store for me. By the end I only found three keys for the cinema so I may have to go back and find the last one at some point, though some segments might be too tedious to experience them again. That entire newbeast section was a little too frustrating to get through yet I have suspicions it might have something to do with the answers I gave prior. Or perhaps not, I truly do not understand the logic behind this place. There were also some areas very reminiscent of newbie maps; with their screwed construction, odd layouts, clipping bugs, texture misalignment and even that infinitely stretched area. Those maps have always felt off, out of scale and removed from any semblance of realism, invoking an unintended creepy and lonely vibe. Memories definitely touched upon those aspects for me.

Congrats on the release, I'm happy this exists, regardless of my ramblings and thoughts around horror gaming trends.

[Tekedon]

 zykov eddy, on 28 March 2024 - 09:18 AM, said:

Spoiler

Keys unlock the second ending. Look carefully through the map, they are hidden in secrets. There are also clues on where to find them.

I did another playthrough and found them all except the green one, gaah. It said I had 5/5 secrets though.

[zykov eddy]

 quakis, on 29 March 2024 - 09:06 AM, said:

Neat classic style map, oops, I added a spoiler tag by accident, please ignore that.

Thank you for a very detailed and honest review!

Spoiler

I agree that some horror tropes on this map are overused outside of the Duke 3D scene. I'm easily impressed by the current horror trends, so I couldn't resist adding some of them in. Even the older ones, because this map is basically made from ideas and passions that I had ever since I left the DN3D scene, so some of them will feel overdone by this point. The poolrooms especially, but I wanted to do it for a long time, and I also wanted to warp Duke 3D's bathroom areas into liminal spaces. I'm surprised that nobody bothered to do it for DN3D yet, though. So, this map may be the first to do it, but it'll probably be the last.

The good news is, I've decided to make a full EDuke32 game based on concepts used in this map, with original setting, entirely new music/graphics/sounds/characters, and all. So, I'm reading carefully player's reception on this map, and figuring out, which sections are worth redoing and building upon, and which ones I should shrink down or remove entirely from the project.

I'm especially curious about what players think of the Voice idea, because I haven't seen it being done in any other game. It's totally inspired by one of the new popular horror movies, and I see that one of the players even mentioned it.

Some folks have also reported that the newbeast section is a little bit too long and frustrating, so, I updated the current version with the one that slightly increases player's movement speed and removes a couple of enemies.

 Doom64hunter, on 29 March 2024 - 08:50 AM, said:

Cool stuff.

Spoiler

Here's a tip for denying access to the automap: Put it into a display event like follows:

appendevent EVENT_DISPLAYSTART
    ifn deny_automap 0
        setu[].overhead_on 0
endevent

This will prevent it from flashing on the screen, as it currently does.

Similar applies to locking the player's view, if you do it inside a display event, the camera won't jitter anymore (though maybe that enhances the effect here, up to you).

Thank you for the suggestion! What can I add here so an "error" message would be displayed if the player pressed the map key?

 Tekedon, on 29 March 2024 - 09:40 AM, said:

I did another playthrough and found them all except the green one, gaah. It said I had 5/5 secrets though.

Damn, I forgot to tag the green key area as a secret! Updated the link with a version that fixes the issue.

Spoiler

You can find green key in one of the big sections of the map, and it's not one of the sections where you found the other keys. The clue on which sections have keys can be found in one of the obscure E1L1 secrets.

A hint on how to cheat to the second ending if you can't find all of the keys, or
you know you definitely won't be replaying the map and attempting to find them:

Spoiler

After you visited the Keymaster and returned to E1L1, noclip to the center of the screen in the movie theater.

[quakis]

 zykov eddy, on 29 March 2024 - 10:35 AM, said:

Spoiler

The good news is, I've decided to make a full EDuke32 game based on concepts used in this map, with original setting, entirely new music/graphics/sounds/characters, and all. So, I'm reading carefully player's reception on this map, and figuring out, which sections are worth redoing and building upon, and which ones I should shrink down or remove entirely from the project.

Spoiler

That is good news and I look forward to see what you come up with. If anything to take away from my feedback, definitely find your own unique flavour to soak your horror even should you be inspired by tropes. Perhaps inspired by some local history, culture or folklore to serve as a basis or auxilery feature - I love it when projects do that. Even highly tropey stuff is fine if the execution is unique or flavoured differently than most stuff out there. I've been wanting to make a horror piece of work for years but haven't quite found something I'm satisfied with just yet.

As for the Voice, I thought that section was fine as is but for any improvements, dishing out punishments besides death would have been funny to see. Fates worse than death and all. Don't do as your told? Something happens based on what you didn't do. Didn't shoot yourself in the leg? Have the other leg and both arms torn off, crawling along the ground. Didn't sleep? The world sleeps for you, perpetual darkness. Extra work but adds to the charm. When I ignored the voice once and just died, I didn't bother disobeying after that, so if that's already a thing I missed out on it.

[zykov eddy]

One of the problems I've had while making this map was the mapster32 wall limit.

Spoiler

Once I hit it, I knew I couldn't build too far on ideas that I put onto the map. I don't know if there's a way to increase it, so I had to restrain myself from going into too much detail if I wanted to make all my ideas into reality. I think most sections benefited from this, because the map is based off that minimalist oldschool vibe, but sections like Newbeast dungeon are definitely too minimalistic for their own good.

Makes me jealous knowing that editors like Doom Builder have no sector/wall limit, and Doom mappers can go all out in their levels. Yeah, I know EDuke32 has a hub map mechanic, but it's just not the same as locking the player in a single map with seamless transitions between areas.

[Doom64hunter]

 zykov eddy, on 29 March 2024 - 10:35 AM, said:

Thank you for the suggestion! What can I add here so an "error" message would be displayed if the player pressed the map key?

Just check if the automap is active before, and then call the quote command -- probably like you're doing already, I haven't checked your code actually.

Spoiler

 zykov eddy, on 29 March 2024 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm especially curious about what players think of the Voice idea, because I haven't seen it being done in any other game. It's totally inspired by one of the new popular horror movies, and I see that one of the players even mentioned it.

The Stanley Parable does something similar, where it's a narrator telling you what you should be doing, and you can also break away from their commands. But yes, I think it's a concept that still has a lot of potential, and it was definitely my favourite part of the map.

What I think would make the voice section more impactful would be if it was the central "anomaly" of the game. So essentially, there's not much else creepy going on (at first at least), and the voice starts out as something benevolent, for example.

You could have it a bit like Undertale, but switched around. You're not the player, you're the character being controlled by an outside player, and the game gets played through repeatedly, every single playthrough becoming more fucked up as the voice tries to see everything that the game has to offer.

The objective could for example be to break away from the voice's control before it gets bored of the game and shuts you off.

[zykov eddy]

 Doom64hunter, on 29 March 2024 - 11:59 AM, said:

Spoiler

The Stanley Parable does something similar, where it's a narrator telling you what you should be doing, and you can also break away from their commands. But yes, I think it's a concept that still has a lot of potential, and it was definitely my favourite part of the map.

Spoiler

I wonder, though. Did you wait patiently for its arrival and let it see your world?

[slacker1]

 zykov eddy, on 29 March 2024 - 12:09 PM, said:

Spoiler

I wonder, though. Did you wait patiently for its arrival and let it see your world?

Spoiler

I did. Was I not suppose to?

Regarding the crashing I posted earlier about...

Spoiler

I really liked the original way more than the current. I guess it makes sense to change if most people were completely thrown off by it. It got me for a second as well and I'm running Linux! It wasn't until it crashed into E1L1 that I was like, "wait... that was a Windows error message" haha

I'm not sure how to host the original version I have but if anyone wants to try it, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

Other notes:

Spoiler

I know backrooms and such can be seen now as overdone but they haven't been yet in Duke so I found them to be a nice change from the usual. I'm happy to see other people also noticed the 'myhouse' Doom vibes. This leans way more into horror and action than that one does but has an overall same vibe which is great because it's become one of my favorite Doom mods of all time. I love the 'wft-ism' . Not surprising that 'The Dream' series is also one of my favorite Duke mods. Though 'The Wall' when it played basically a whole video blew my mind when I fist played it.

Anyway... sorry, it's late and I'm rambling...

[zykov eddy]

 slacker1, on 29 March 2024 - 11:49 PM, said:

Spoiler

I did. Was I not suppose to?

Spoiler

Of course you were supposed to! You wouldn't wanna disobay the Voice... I just hope you had a save before that. Just in case you'd... Wanna see that sequence again!

(Don't let him arrive! RUN! RUN RUN RUN RU-... *Gets touched by a had of God*)

[Dr.Panico]

 slacker1, on 29 March 2024 - 11:49 PM, said:

Spoiler

I did. Was I not suppose to?

Regarding the crashing I posted earlier about...

Spoiler

I really liked the original way more than the current. I guess it makes sense to change if most people were completely thrown off by it. It got me for a second as well and I'm running Linux! It wasn't until it crashed into E1L1 that I was like, "wait... that was a Windows error message" haha

I'm not sure how to host the original version I have but if anyone wants to try it, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

Spoiler

Funny thing about the crashing scene. I knew from the get-go that this wasn't a legit crash window. It appeared too suddenly and it was noticeably too pixelated to be real. It kinda amuses me that most people fell for it. (And it must have helped that I had a real error screen regarding full cache - the reason I had to test this mod on a fresh Eduke32 install) That's why I didn't report any crashes early on.

Oh, and something does really happen if you wait for the "new God"? I thought you would only get killed or some shit. Guess I'm gonna have to play it again to see what I'm missing.

I'm also curious on how to trigger the alleged third ending people have been talking about.

[Doom64hunter]

 Dr.Panico, on 30 March 2024 - 03:06 AM, said:

Spoiler

I'm also curious on how to trigger the alleged third ending people have been talking about.

Spoiler

Three endings? You just hit the nuke button like always in E1L1

[zykov eddy]

 Doom64hunter, on 30 March 2024 - 05:16 AM, said:

Spoiler

Three endings? You just hit the nuke button like always in E1L1

Damn. Now we have meta comments under the spoiler tag. This thread goes deeper each day.

[Sangman]

Serious answer to that question

Spoiler

There is a hidden message in one of the "chase" areas

[Mike Norvak]

Used latest syntesis (03-16), link from first post (first time I download the map) I got the infinite RPG Backpack. I do recognize I just throwed everything from the zip in my main folder, I'm gonna try a fresh folder and report back to you. I'm definitely gonna include a reference to this event in my upcoming map

[zykov eddy]

 Mike Norvak, on 30 March 2024 - 08:09 AM, said:

Used latest syntesis (03-16), link from first post (first time I download the map) I got the infinite RPG Backpack. I do recognize I just throwed everything from the zip in my main folder, I'm gonna try a fresh folder and report back to you. I'm definitely gonna include a reference to this event in my upcoming map

Damn! So you're telling me the problem still persists?

Well, at the bright side, at least you have infinite RPGs now. Shooting rockets has never been so much fun.

[Mike Norvak]

 zykov eddy, on 30 March 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

Damn! So you're telling me the problem still persists?

Well, at the bright side, at least you have infinite RPGs now. Shooting rockets has never been so much fun.

I just edited my latest comment, bug still persists...

[Mike Norvak]

Oh crap, sorry I was using an incorrect version of the map,I forgot I downloaded the map when you released it, now I'm running the LATEST, oh boy..

[zykov eddy]

 Mike Norvak, on 30 March 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

Oh crap, sorry I was using an incorrect version of the map,I forgot I downloaded the map when you released it, now I'm running the LATEST, oh boy..

Depending on whom you'd ask in this thread, the first version you tried could be the most authentic version. But running the latest version is the correct course of action.

No more issues. Just nostalgia. A burning memory.

[Mike Norvak]

Man, I'm in love with this map so far...

[Dr.Panico]

I've decided to test the new version of the map, and came across a bug/cheat:

Spoiler

On the pools area, the entity doesn't show up if you don't step in a specific spot. You can pretty much explore the area without a worry in the world if you avoid that touchplate.

[slacker1]

 Dr.Panico, on 30 March 2024 - 06:04 PM, said:

I've decided to test the new version of the map, and came across a bug/cheat:

Spoiler

On the pools area, the entity doesn't show up if you don't step in a specific spot. You can pretty much explore the area without a worry in the world if you avoid that touchplate.

Found one too

Spoiler

In the apartment above the cinema, 'DNCLIP' allows you to walk outside the level bounds unlike previous areas where it just says clipping is off but really isn't.

[zykov eddy]

 Dr.Panico, on 30 March 2024 - 06:04 PM, said:

I've decided to test the new version of the map, and came across a bug/cheat:

Spoiler

On the pools area, the entity doesn't show up if you don't step in a specific spot. You can pretty much explore the area without a worry in the world if you avoid that touchplate.

If you play the first version that is. It's been updated numerous times since then.

[Polunka]

Definitely your best Duke work to this day! Probably the most unique experience I've had in Duke Nukem 3D. Didn't encounter any bugs, played the latest version of the map, took me 66 mins, found all the secrets and the secret ending. Many thanks for such a refreshing Duke experience!

By the way,

Spoiler

I'm not sure if I understood the main ending correctly. I assume humanity eventually went extinct because of this New God drug and the protagonist is the only survivor?

[zykov eddy]

I'm happy that you enjoyed the map and even found the second ending!

 Polunka, on 01 April 2024 - 04:07 AM, said:

Spoiler

I'm not sure if I undestood the main ending correctly. I assume humanity eventually went extinct because of this New God drug and the protagonist is the only survivor?

Spoiler

It's one of many ways to interpret it, and probably the most literal. I'm not gonna spoil which interpretion is correct. But if many interpretions will be posted in the thread, I'll leave a note hinting at which I like the most.

[t800]

Nice old school relaxing map. I didn't even mind addition of backpack to freshen up classic gameplay. Good work!

Spoiler

Phew, what an experience! If I were to describe it in two words it would be anxiety and disorientation. I liked that concept of gradual deterioration of reality. My two favorite moments were watching "documentary film" in cinema while anticipating arrival and nightmare version of original map with "voice of new god". That concept of voice commanding players to do things has potential for more interesting things. I am wondering how much does answers to "face in wall" affect rest of map? I let him out and he later appeared in that area with lot of spiderbabes (nice nightmare fuel of enemy by the way).

I was stumped only two times. Firstly I didn't know what to do with skulls and just run all over place. I was getting frustrated until I accidentally noticed those four piedestal. Also, keymaster got me confused for a while because I immediately pressed quickload after dying like reflex.
And I have to admit - I managed to find only two secret keys. But I was too curious about that secret and somehow figured out secret ending behind cinema screen via DNCLIP. Sorry! (But it was nice to how alternative, more optimistic/nostalgic ending for chance.)

My theories regarding original ending are two. First one is based on theory, that Duke and his world is real, he is just hallucinating about those "4th wall breaking things" and he somehow was only one who survived those drug induced nightmares thanks to his strong willpower. But only after very long time. Rest of mankind (and aliens too) were not that successful, thus he is the only survivor of this drug apocalypse. Second theory is based on out of box thinking. Duke is just playable character in fictive world. World looks that ruined, because while "corruption" got fixed, game got worn out by this long cycle (remember those 800-something days with voice of new god?)

Anyways, good luck with that big new project you just announced!