[ck3D]

Hi, here's a new map for Duke 3D Atomic. It reinterprets all of episode 1: L.A. Meltdown so I hope you like that one.

Download (temporary): https://go.wetransfer.com/t-2o7fZ8w2Q3

Intended challenge is on Come Get Some, any lower skill setting than that has none of the turrets (big gameplay changer). Should be compatible with every gameplay mode (SP/Coop/Dukematch).

For now only tested by me but I just gave the level two full 100+ minute test runs so hopefully nothing magically broke. 700+ enemies on CGS but supplies and open spaces aplenty so shouldn't be very hard.










Have fun and thank you for playing!

[ck3D]

Forgot to mention, kind of didn't want to but I need to so that no one wastes their time doubting or reporting that: there is one possible card skip that is intentional. Enjoy if you can.

[Dr.Panico]

Excellent map as always! Love the way each area integrated elements from the original E1 levels. Took me nearly 2 hours to beat (though I must've spent like 10 minutes trying to get into the cinema). Found 6 secrets.

I heard that this level would heavily use drones and turrents and OH GOD they were right. My deaths on this map were mostly brought either by them or falling damage. The "The Abyss" section was particularly difficult; with all the rock climbing, dry plants getting in the way, and of course falling. The final boss also took me by surprise a bit.

I'll replay this map later in order to find all the secrets. Now, speaking of secrets:

Spoiler

No candle for Scott?! How can you forget the creator of all that exists?!

[Seb Luca]

Awesome city, dude

[ck3D]

Dr.Panico, on 03 November 2023 - 09:59 AM, said:

Excellent map as always! Love the way each area integrated elements from the original E1 levels. Took me nearly 2 hours to beat (though I must've spent like 10 minutes trying to get into the cinema). Found 6 secrets.I heard that this level would heavily use drones and turrents and OH GOD they were right. My deaths on this map were mostly brought either by them or falling damage. The "The Abyss" section was particularly difficult; with all the rock climbing, dry plants getting in the way, and of course falling. The final boss also took me by surprise a bit.I'll replay this map later in order to find all the secrets. Now, speaking of secrets:

Spoiler

No candle for Scott?! How can you forget the creator of all that exists?!

Thank you for playing and for your feedback, I appreciate that you've come to trust my style. I'm taking a break from one last 100% test run right now (already spotted microscopic errors that will mess with my OCD if I don't fix them sometime), going for all secrets/kills on CGS so far I'm an hour in and just at the end of Death Row. I actually haven't tested the level on Let's Rock yet but I'd assume it plays a lot different without the 100+ turrets and way more casually, whereas with them adds a stealthy element to the gameplay I feel like (Sunset Suicide in BR already did that except it was a lot smaller), probably slows down progression just a little if speed is the metric. Abyss section I wish I could have developed more but I found myself shit out of resources in the end, probably wiser to keep the theme confined to an entire dedicated level anyway (or to the contrary expand on it in episode form like William Gee did), as a subsection can only work so well when grandness of the singular location is the whole concept.

Re: the secret, when making it I originally wanted the trinity to be Levelord/Blum/Lee and that's when I realized/remembered 1.4+ had taken Levelord's Faces of Death photo out of the game, so I went with Ken instead but still the point stands that it's so timelessly weird and wack they did that.

I think the Blast Radius version will feature the Renegade Recons a lot more instead of maybe half the drones, going to be interesting seeing how the layout works in practice with all the new projectiles, but it's probable I'm not going to get to that anytime too soon.

Seb Luca, on 03 November 2023 - 11:14 AM, said:

Awesome city, dude

Thanks, although I can only take so much credit for it as it is loosely based/very much inspired by a real world block on Hollywood boulevard. I'll post it a bit later (unless someone else somehow feels like playing where's Waldo on Google maps in the meantime; shouldn't be difficult, there are plenty of giveways in the map itself).

[ck3D]

This is a link to a newer version of the map that addresses the microscopic issues I was mentioning earlier: https://go.wetransfer.com/t-IBXlZbYKZf

Just fixes a few sprites on a structure I had forgotten to make two-sided, as well as forgotten lightswitch SE's on top of two doors, so just perfectionism and not worth 'updating' if you already got the first version but better to have out.

[stillTodd]

7 secrets so far. Is there a walkthrough showing/describing where they are? This epic map deserves one!

DukePlus 2.5.0.1 compatible if that floats your boat The Devastator is replaced with the Imperium Cannon, which really helps when distance sniping.

[ck3D]

Here's a quick list of secrets I can remember off the top of my head right now,

Street section, from the second rooftop there are steroids you can use to jump the street and reach the multi story parking garage. I think several secrets are marked there including a timid one on a lower platform.

There is an equivalent to the red apartment in Hollywood Holocaust that holds every gun but the shrinker, but it's opposite the cinema and you might need steroids or the jetpack to reach it.

Can enter the small parking garage near the first tower and make it to the ledge with the Innocent sign then keep going to get the RPG, then jump down onto the tank on top of the smaller apartment building down below for extra items.

One Atomic Health in the back of one tunnel is especially difficult to see so it's marked as a secret, same thing with crevices behind certain cacti in the Abyss.

Cinema has one secret compartment behind one of the curtains where the two opposite hallways into the room with the seats meet, need to blast or kick a few breakable sprites away to enter it and get early NVG's.

Next to the cinema is a backyard with an empty pool and emergency staircase you can use to reach a secret rooftop with some platforming, to get the Devastator.

Climb the scaffolding in front of the entrance of the bar to collapse the building across the street but also get the RPG.

Death Row part has two secrets in the chapel exactly where they would be in the original, try pressing the central wall behind the monk.

Can't remember if there are more but the level also has a few unmarked secrets, for instance it's possible to shoot a switch somewhere to reach the platforms with the billboards at the northern intersection of the boulevard or if you go back to the shrinker shooter after you've found the jetpack should be a little message.

Thanks for playing, happy you like it.

[stillTodd]

Thanks for all of this. 12 now found (I'll retry a couple of areas).

[ck3D]

Oh yeah, forgot one; top of the wall just right of the entrance of the adult store. Can access it by jumping there from the suspended walkway that seemingly leads nowhere.

There also is a switch to lower the revolving door and free up an Atomic Health (unmarked) if you keep rotating with the door as it comes around.

[Radar]

Video is up showcasing all secrets and the blue key card skip. Also posting the full thumbnail which I don't usually do because the aesthetic is just fantastic.

Great map overall. City area is very impressive. Love the feeling of immersion. Looking forward to the reveal on what the real life location is.

EDIT: I actually found the location on google maps shortly after posting this. Regardless, I'll let the author reveal it himself.



Trying out something new by posting this on my new channel:

[NNC]

Wow, you're a well oiled machine, ck3D, what would be this community without you.

Screens don't remind me of classic LAM, but almost every screen reminds me of a Blast Radius map. Which means the level is inbetween the two.

[ck3D]

@Radar thank you for the kind words and for the video, I really appreciate it and am happy you liked the map. Thinking of at least temporarily including the current vanilla version to Blast Radius as a bonus episode 3 (I have other plans for the upcoming spicy version), I need to fix a few tiny errors I could spot thanks to your video first (lost it when I saw the back of the TV) and then I'll embed your link on the page when my files are ready, there's an article I want to put up. I very much enjoyed the thorough approach to the traversal and you did remarkably well in the Abyss (I laughed when that one last tank chose to dip though, my first time seeing that, maybe I should move it just a little).

@The Watchtower I'm especially looking forward to your comments on this level if you ever get to try it (I wouldn't recommend waiting for the version with BR/ZZ enemies which is destined to be more exotic, but I'll keep vanilla around). My work literally is the product of the community, for instance this map as a whole was inspired by the frequent ponderings that I see 'what if L6 of Lameduke had been functional' and 'what if all of L.A. Meltdown had been just one big map', certain aesthetics are consciously encouraged by reading and filtering comments re: appreciation for both Blum's and Levelord's styles as well as for cosmetics people liked seeing in the Happy Hangover trilogy at the time or Poison Heart (Radar and Ninety-Six come to mind). The bar in this level actually is a direct consequence and repercussion of all your comments on the original Mean Streets/RLD bar, I took your basic idea there and sort of doubled it up. Using more turrets and understanding the importance of mechanical enemies in general also in part stems from you. You shall see!

Something I enjoyed ''''pushing'''' in this map is the sprite based gradient shading technique, I wish more people considered that style sometimes. A bit funny to work with but can look quite neat.

Re: the Hollywood boulevard city block, here's the pin: https://maps.app.goo...zXW7mc2ZvLm6dC7

Some other references:





https://en.wikipedia...tional_Facility

https://en.wikipedia...7s_Central_Jail

[NNC]

ck3D, on 05 November 2023 - 05:03 AM, said:

@The Watchtower I'm especially looking forward to your comments on this level if you ever get to try it (I wouldn't recommend waiting for the version with BR/ZZ enemies which is destined to be more exotic, but I'll keep vanilla around). My work literally is the product of the community, for instance this map as a whole was inspired by the frequent ponderings that I see 'what if L6 of Lameduke had been functional' and 'what if all of L.A. Meltdown had been just one big map', certain aesthetics are consciously encouraged by reading and filtering comments re: appreciation for both Blum's and Levelord's styles as well as for cosmetics people liked seeing in the Happy Hangover trilogy at the time or Poison Heart (Radar and Ninety-Six come to mind). The bar in this level actually is a direct consequence and repercussion of all your comments on the original Mean Streets/RLD bar, I took your basic idea there and sort of doubled it up. Using more turrets and understanding the importance of mechanical enemies in general also in part stems from you. You shall see!

Unfortunately I already watched the playthrough above, so the map is already spoilered, but I will give it a try when I somehow find my way back to Duking, which gets rarer and rarer these days sadly.

It was weird to see the map is full of sentry drones, even inside the buildings, I'm not against it, in fact, I never undestood all the hate for them (also for lost souls 3DRealms clearly copied), but still felt a bit weird to put them exactly in a map that gives homage to the episode didn't have any. The gameplay with the turrets/drones/liztroops early on was certainly very interesting though, I almost wished it would have stayed all map, but it wouldn't have worked probably. The enemy would have worked in conjunction with them is the commander, a full street with liztroops/commanders/drones/turrets with some overlords in a big open city is a really interesting idea for a future concept. But it seems you are already moving in that direction as BR also had significantly lower amount of hitscanners, which IMHO only belong to dodgable corridors.

As for what I have seen from this video, it's a typical ck3D map, it certainly had all the magic references to classic E1 tropes from the famous rocket platform to the bookstore with the nude TVs, etc., but it was still your work, full of cyberpunk atmosphere, and for this reason alone, it ranks higher than most Hollywood Holocaust remake projects which all tried to imitate the classic and amalgamed out of place ideas to it.

However I'm not a fan of one thing about it: IMHO LA Meltdown is an episode (along with The Birth), that couldn't be synthetized in a single level. It had at least 2, or even better 3 levels in it. The two city maps can be synthetized easily (as was already done in the famous L6), while the rest are so different in theme, even in the video, there was a clean marking point, when you reach the prison area. The rest are probably also two levels, with Death Row and Toxic Dump can be merged, but the Abyss is remarkably different.

But that doesn't remove the potential enjoyment of a new ck3D map.

What you should try next (and nobody ever tried it, despite the vast potential) is the synthesis of Shrapnel City. The first 8 Levelord maps (not counting Tier Drops) could be merged into one gargantuan city level. The trickiest puzzle is to add Flood Zone to it, it's different to the rest, but probably not impossible (well, it's certainly easier, than adding Abyss into Hollywood Holocaust ). The other seven are born to be synthetized.

[ck3D]

Thanks for the feedback and yes I agree with everything you said including about the possible/credible level connections, just earlier I also was bringing up how the Abyss really should remain its own thing, if anything blown into more grand levels like WG recently did but well at least this little experiment is but a testament to this strength of the original by Levelord.

Re: enemy selection this map is completely devoid of Enforcers, Commanders and Slimers but I did want the drones because I think mechanical enemies in Duke 3D are important and slept on, drones and turrets in particular were Duke's foes way before aliens were (and popular culture would retain them) and I believe Duke always was destined to be more than the tanktop dude who shoots the different funny looking organic beings, at least in addition to that he's also clearly directly caught up (as the pinaccle of the human action hero) in a certain man vs. machine conflict, original universe pre Duke 3D popular success already was overwhelmingly cyberpunkish for a reason. The drone is a seminal Duke enemy so in a pseudo-seminal adventure I thought it should belong. Then I just really had to introduce the pigs because of RLD/Death Row and Octas due to Toxic Dump/The Abyss, I also prefer the vibes of the first two parts/levels the best personally. Reminds me of the 1996 user map The Computer War by Patrick Mulnix https://dnr.duke4.ne...mputer_War.html which was greatly influential for me back in the day (albeit very simple; I remember I was the one who sent that one to Kim @ DN-R; bless that chap).

No Battlelord Sentries until the very end too but instead you get Pig Tanks which I thought was fitting and generally more fun.

There is an updated version of the level you can find here (finally a fixed link): https://www.moddb.co...kem-3d-user-map cleans up a couple of minor sprite issues, and I added 1/ a trail of sprites between the cinema ticket booth and entrance after Dr. Panico's comment and 2/ an extra keypad if the player wants to leave the cinema through the door so that even if they're trying to go for the skip they may accidentally be tempted to use the key there and waste it, should be double the fun now.

Should be compatible with all renderers, limit removing ports, mods etc.

And I also just integrated it (temporarily as episode 3) to Blast Radius v. 3.0.0 (but it's the same vanilla version as the standalone one above): https://www.moddb.co...3d-blast-radius

[NNC]

As for the mechanical enemies, I wish Duke had an active EDF robot as an enemy, not like the guys from Ion Fury, but something seen in DNF DLC, and in the Build's scope: DNF 2013. Robot, drone, turret, tank with robot in it is already a solid line-up, two types of robot is almost episode tier.

What do you think of the idea of Shrapnel City 2047?

[ck3D]

What I think of your idea is you may already be spoiling what I've been thinking would be my next plan before I could even attempt drawing just one sector (you're good at reading things like this), I've already loved the idea for quite a bit and may see what I can do in the obscure future. I'm not scared of Flood Zone, I've been to the Santa Monica pier and so already have an idea of what it could look like in Duke. In fact for a while I already wanted the nearby Venice beach in Blast Radius but the idea (and early map attempts) went nowhere and so we got Sunset Suicide instead.

[Mike Norvak]

Who are you outsourcing your awesome maps to? 🤣
Damn you are a fast mapper CK3D, any advices for anyone that struggles with finishing their maps?

[ck3D]

Mike Norvak, on 06 November 2023 - 06:13 AM, said:

Who are you outsourcing your awesome maps to? ������
Damn you are a fast mapper CK3D, any advices for anyone that struggles with finishing their maps?

I seem to always regurgitate the same advice there (although I don't exactly consider myself in the best position to give advice) but I think the solution often actually is don't map, wait out on ideas until the egg actually is ready to hatch (not when you think it is; when it actually is it just does), don't force yourself or feel obliged to live inside the editor (and/or develop existential crisis around the idea of staying away possibly for a long time, that would still be better time spent than sitting idle on your chair with blank page syndrome not knowing what to do). The best way to nail the precise direction for a level always seems to be when thinking about concepts away from the editor as that's when ideas mature and then all your time spent inside the editor should be 100% execution, whenever you find yourself hesitating about what to make next is a sign you should shut it off regardless of whether that's for half an hour or six months, it doesn't matter because whenever you do come back you'll already know exactly what you're coming back for, how to technically pull it off (because we tend to consider that too) and you'll just do it, it'll come out. Don't shoot for any stars and just curate ideas as they come and evolve, sometimes after a while they meet then boom you've already built a level mentally that you just need to drop.

Forcing anything, you'll just get discouraging rushed results and in general is the best way to ruin whatever it is you're doing because the disappointment builds up until you convince yourself that you yourself don't know what you're doing, which is true since you're forcing it, and you get stuck in a negative feedback loop. You don't want that, that's how one quits doing anything (which I guess also is fine and normal per se whenever it does naturally happen).

Some kind of logic in the workflow also really helps, a lot of my mapping is structured in layers of passes and personal automatisms that's not to say I don't make my own practical mistakes (sometimes I enjoy the process of achieving something the supposedly technically 'hard way' which when it comes to that does result in waste of time) but identifying the processes and construction patterns that your own habits constantly repeat is useful because then you can simplify those redundant parts of the equation, optimizing the execution of what's become what you dread making the most.

I hope to see more from you in the future since Nightshade Army is one of my favorite city maps of all time, I can really appreciate the care that went into that one, moments like the plane are still fantastic too.

Outsourcing my levels I just feed radioactive goo to the rats in my basement and they just shit them out, easy except now they are two meters tall and so sometimes my kitchen floor rumbles, haven't needed an earthquake sector effector in six months, I'm cheap.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 06 November 2023 - 07:52 AM, said:

I seem to always regurgitate the same advice there (although I don't exactly consider myself in the best position to give advice) but I think the solution often actually is don't map, wait out on ideas until the egg actually is ready to hatch (not when you think it is; when it actually is it just does), don't force yourself or feel obliged to live inside the editor (and/or develop existential crisis around the idea of staying away possibly for a long time, that would still be better time spent than sitting idle on your chair with blank page syndrome not knowing what to do). The best way to nail the precise direction for a level always seems to be when thinking about concepts away from the editor as that's when ideas mature and then all your time spent inside the editor should be 100% execution, whenever you find yourself hesitating about what to make next is a sign you should shut it off regardless of whether that's for half an hour or six months, it doesn't matter because whenever you do come back you'll already know exactly what you're coming back for, how to technically pull it off (because we tend to consider that too) and you'll just do it, it'll come out. Don't shoot for any stars and just curate ideas as they come and evolve, sometimes after a while they meet then boom you've already built a level mentally that you just need to drop.

or in instances of when I offer to make a map for someone's mod and another person also offers to make the map - the mod director/creator chooses the other person over me (because they're a way better mapper and way out of my league) - but then a year or so later that other person backs out of their promise.
The mod director resorts to having to re-ask the sub-par mapper (me) to get a map done that hasn't any creative thought about it at all, and get it done in about 3-4 months.
I counter the offer with a firm year.
Been almost a year.
I spent 98% thinking about how to make it, then making and re-making areas several times over.
The map is a cluster-fuck and looks like shit. But it's still better than anything I could make in 3-4 months with zero planning or thought about it prior to starting.
Good thing it's only an intro-tutorial level.

[ck3D]

That's a pretty funny situation from A to Z (with hindsight because I'm dead certain it's not funny at all when personally caught up in it), but really does support how planning and nurturing of a vision throughout time is key, inspiration just doesn't magically happen, the brain needs to process something accurate it will then know how to project onto the Mapster grid. My mind just so happens to be cluttered with level ideas that just need to be made but that is because I think about all in the universe I can think about also in relation to the game and so the ideas just naturally accumulate and agglomerate in that regard.

The situation of making a level for someone other than yourself is a bit particular because then expectations are more present and so the level can start suffering from how much of it that you make isn't personal. Maybe a good way to handle it is to consider that your own expectations are of a higher standard than the ones of the person you do the work for (and of course they are since you're more directly involved in it) and so whatever you make that you're satisfied with, the other party also will de facto be satisfied with if not surprised by, and then if they have personal issues with the results when you yourself know that they work then you draw the line where that's either purely on them or just general miscommunication. The other side of the coin is you shouldn't be scared of retouching the parts of the level that you do sense that they do not work because that's discouraging too. Bulk wall/sector manipulation and editing is made easy these days (but you're skilled with the engine and have taught me tricks with it in the past so you'd know).



Improvisation is important too but I tend to reserve that to the micro scale, mostly secondary area interconnections and room layouts.

[Mike Norvak]

ck3D, on 06 November 2023 - 07:52 AM, said:

I seem to always regurgitate the same advice there (although I don't exactly consider myself in the best position to give advice) but I think the solution often actually is don't map, wait out on ideas until the egg actually is ready to hatch (not when you think it is; when it actually is it just does), don't force yourself or feel obliged to live inside the editor (and/or develop existential crisis around the idea of staying away possibly for a long time, that would still be better time spent than sitting idle on your chair with blank page syndrome not knowing what to do). The best way to nail the precise direction for a level always seems to be when thinking about concepts away from the editor as that's when ideas mature and then all your time spent inside the editor should be 100% execution, whenever you find yourself hesitating about what to make next is a sign you should shut it off regardless of whether that's for half an hour or six months, it doesn't matter because whenever you do come back you'll already know exactly what you're coming back for, how to technically pull it off (because we tend to consider that too) and you'll just do it, it'll come out. Don't shoot for any stars and just curate ideas as they come and evolve, sometimes after a while they meet then boom you've already built a level mentally that you just need to drop.

Forcing anything, you'll just get discouraging rushed results and in general is the best way to ruin whatever it is you're doing because the disappointment builds up until you convince yourself that you yourself don't know what you're doing, which is true since you're forcing it, and you get stuck in a negative feedback loop. You don't want that, that's how one quits doing anything (which I guess also is fine and normal per se whenever it does naturally happen).

Some kind of logic in the workflow also really helps, a lot of my mapping is structured in layers of passes and personal automatisms that's not to say I don't make my own practical mistakes (sometimes I enjoy the process of achieving something the supposedly technically 'hard way' which when it comes to that does result in waste of time) but identifying the processes and construction patterns that your own habits constantly repeat is useful because then you can simplify those redundant parts of the equation, optimizing the execution of what's become what you dread making the most.

I hope to see more from you in the future since Nightshade Army is one of my favorite city maps of all time, I can really appreciate the care that went into that one, moments like the plane are still fantastic too.

Outsourcing my levels I just feed radioactive goo to the rats in my basement and they just shit them out, easy except now they are two meters tall and so sometimes my kitchen floor rumbles, haven't needed an earthquake sector effector in six months, I'm cheap.

I would buy some of those supercharged rats from you.

Thanks for your words about Nightshade Army. 😃

And yeah I think you are right about planning.

I hadn't touched mapster in about 3 years, until yesterday, I was having problems with my graphic card for the last several years, that made me unable to use any video or 3D related software, that and the fact that Hectic Realms Demo didn't get much traction plus a new job at the time discouraged me to keep mapping but also motivated me to focus on my music and remixes, that was a time when I donated almost everything on my mapping folders to the AMC TC and to William G to recostruct Hectic Realms... Which in the end was a relief.

When AMC episode 4 and Demon Throne were released I magically stop feeling ashamed or guilty for spending so much years on something I didn't manage to release my self, and I learned I shouldn't be so hard on my self and probably not so ambitios as well.

Life it self and my recent experience releasing music on a constant basis on my label has taught me that if you are gonna show your work to the world
you shouldn't focus on making it perfect, but on making it show who you are, is better to express than to impress.

For now I'm just gonna say that I opened mapster and I haven't forgot all the shortcuts lol...

[Forge]

Mike Norvak, on 06 November 2023 - 11:32 AM, said:

I hadn't touched mapster in about 3 years, until yesterday, I was having problems with my graphic card for the last several years, that made me unable to use any video or 3D related software, that and the fact that Hectic Realms Demo didn't get much traction plus a new job at the time discouraged me to keep mapping but also motivated me to focus on my music and remixes, that was a time when I donated almost everything on my mapping folders to the AMC TC and to William G to recostruct Hectic Realms... Which in the end was a relief.

When AMC episode 4 and Demon Throne were released I magically stop feeling ashamed or guilty for spending so much years on something I didn't manage to release my self, and I learned I shouldn't be so hard on my self and probably not so ambitios as well.

guess who used to beta-test all your stuff and still has folders of it?

since you now appear to have the proper amount of relief and confidence that actually corresponds with your work; there's also a certain map that should probably get another look at and then released so I can stop hounding you about it

[Mike Norvak]

Forge, on 06 November 2023 - 03:51 PM, said:

guess who used to beta-test all your stuff and still has folders of it?

since you now appear to have the proper amount of relief and confidence that actually corresponds with your work; there's also a certain map that should probably get another look at and then released so I can stop hounding you about it

Could you send me the latest version again again?, I have a lot of iterations and I'm not sure what is actually the last intended one 🙏

I was actually checking two short unreleased maps that are almost done, probably I should start with these first tough. Sorry for off-topic 😔

[ck3D]

Mike Norvak, on 06 November 2023 - 11:32 AM, said:

Thanks for your words about Nightshade Army. ������

Nightshade Army for sure is one crafty map. I'll post Pizza Cake's 100% playthrough just so people might remember it and give it a shot again:



It's funny we're talking about perspective on and planning of the work because a lot about that map seems to scream you were still figuring that out at the time actually, because every individual section is brimming with perfectionist levels of detail but the structure very obviously is progressive, one segment calling the next as if they had been improvised and conceived in individual succession, resulting in the level feeling and playing like a sequence of mini inner levels instead of one coherent sum of parts (structurally speaking, because in this case the design style suffices to maintain coherence, it really is a good level and fun experience). I actually think both approaches are potentially viable and just depend on what type of level one's trying to make (and then how well they execute it), but working 'part per part' seems to be the one that comes first to every mapper before they realize that's a shell they can choose to break out of. Sometimes you don't want micromanagement because that's anti design when the goal is a larger scope. These days personally I have more fun in planning and approaching a level as one massive structure (which it's bound to eventually be), which is why L.A. Meltdown 2047 I find to be a bit funny, it's open and yet by nature segmented so it plays with that line a bit.

[Forge]

Mike Norvak, on 06 November 2023 - 09:43 PM, said:

Could you send me the latest version again again?, I have a lot of iterations and I'm not sure what is actually the last intended one ������

I was actually checking two short unreleased maps that are almost done, probably I should start with these first tough. Sorry for off-topic ������

i'm probably going to need working names/titles of anything you want so I can find them in my mess of a directory tree.
I have a lot of hectic realms and a couple NSA betas.
Sunstroke
those are the only ones i recall off the top of my head.

I would feel a bit uncomfortable about the old stuff you gave James - He pretty much used all of it.

- if you had me beta test a map - i still have a copy of it somewhere, we can use dm's to continue this




to keep it almost on topic - i have a pile of BTTG betas too

[Merlijn]

Finished the map in 3 sessions, congrats on another release! It's another great ck3D map that would for the most part fit right into BR. The main street area is excellent, the 2 central buildings look completely fresh thanks to the clever texture combinations. Indoor sections are all well done, they clearly reference LA Meltdown but they're never just a copy. You always manage to add your own twists and turns to them (for instance I like how both E1L2 locales are now stacked on top of each other). Generally strong design is spiced up with some fun cute details, like the toilet paper on the ground and the Civvie11 reference in the shrunk part. The prison was probably my favorite indoor section, I just really like the way this part was structured and interconnected. Reminded me a bit of Billy Boy at times.

Gameplay-wise I was fearing the turrets and the drones, I usually dont like these enemies all that much. But I must say they were well implemented and the enemy placement was good, it never got annoying or unfair. The numerous stashes of pipebombs and rockets certainly helped! I really liked the parkour in the main city area, and how this would often lead to the better weapons (my favorite was climbing the scaffolds to get to the rooftop with the RPG). Some BR 'tropes' return here, such as the clouds of enemy respawns approaching from afar and the numerous trash cans that could either contain goodies or extra enemies.

I get what you say about the Abyss section, it feels a bit tacked on since it has such a different theme. It existing right next to the boulevard makes the map more abstract, and I would say that's the only weaker point of the map. But it's still interesting to see a whole episode condensed to a single map like this. The section itself was also the most challenging part: there's some mean ambushes, sniping pig cops and the hostile terrain got me killed at least once. The rocket being a reference to Tintin was a nice touch, I remember reading that particular comic when I was a little kid

Also got squished by once by these rotors, they seemed a bit janky:

[ck3D]

Thanks for playing and for the feedback, glad you enjoyed it and appreciated all those aspects. Red Light Rumble as a speed map had been good practice for 'reassembling' RLD in a similar fashion albeit less developed since the bar in that map indeed was in a separate location technically speaking. The Abyss being next to the city block actually is something I like about the map (but surreal describes the impression really well), idea was to completely (geographically) disconnect Death Row since the rupture at that moment of the original episode is so strong and then have the player have to walk all the way back to where they started, but maybe it would have been more credible to drop that. Initially I considered playing with occlusion to hide the canyon with the rocket from the starting rooftop too, but then figured the map should start with the player exploring options of how to go down the building and taking a 360 degree look at all kinds of sceneries they would wonder whether they're just decorative or they'll get to access them later, sort of Duke 64 style. Giving the rocket away so early arguably is a bit ballsy but it's a recognizable landmark and I very much enjoy the idea of someone first firing up the level, taking the kaleidoscopic look around every map corner from the center of the map, seeing something so foreign/distant (also in theme) and going what the fuck.

Abyss part I think could have worked if I could have given it more scale but at that point of the experiment I was shit out of walls, which is why the rocket is a bit primitive and the effect relatively underdeveloped, I had to make it all out of sprites that would also render OK in classic mode or I would have made a sector rocket that would have taken off (not collapsed like in the original) as well as a different set up for the whole puzzle (that's a bit cheap the way it is now, but technically works).

Am aware of the rotor being weird, it used to be perfectly smooth then started doing weird stuff when I added the underwater layer as SOS. Could fix that but I kept it in as is because I think there should be a danger element to it, and it makes sense Duke would sort of struggle to stay on, but yeah per se that's less practical.

[Mike Norvak]

ck3D, on 07 November 2023 - 04:55 AM, said:

Nightshade Army for sure is one crafty map. I'll post Pizza Cake's 100% playthrough just so people might remember it and give it a shot again:



It's funny we're talking about perspective on and planning of the work because a lot about that map seems to scream you were still figuring that out at the time actually, because every individual section is brimming with perfectionist levels of detail but the structure very obviously is progressive, one segment calling the next as if they had been improvised and conceived in individual succession, resulting in the level feeling and playing like a sequence of mini inner levels instead of one coherent sum of parts (structurally speaking, because in this case the design style suffices to maintain coherence, it really is a good level and fun experience). I actually think both approaches are potentially viable and just depend on what type of level one's trying to make (and then how well they execute it), but working 'part per part' seems to be the one that comes first to every mapper before they realize that's a shell they can choose to break out of. Sometimes you don't want micromanagement because that's anti design when the goal is a larger scope. These days personally I have more fun in planning and approaching a level as one massive structure (which it's bound to eventually be), which is why L.A. Meltdown 2047 I find to be a bit funny, it's open and yet by nature segmented so it plays with that line a bit.

Yeah at the moment I had so much free time lol, and yeah what you describe is actually how the map was made, it was made in chunks it lacks an overarching planned concept, which ironically was what caused me to abandon Hectic Realms: It had an over the top overarching concept which involved interconected hubs, non-linneae progression, new art, enemies, etc.

Thanks for sharing that video, is cool how people keep getting back to maps made decades ago, even when you think is not the best of your works.

[Ax 34noff]

Great map!