[Balls of Steel Forever]

Danukem, on 10 October 2022 - 08:36 PM, said:

This may surprise you, but I see nothing wrong with charging them. Parental rights and parental responsibilities go hand in hand -- if you have the right to dictate how a human being grows up, then you should be held accountable for things that they do (up to a point and within reason, blah blah blah). In many states, pet owners are liable for injuries caused by their pets -- why not with kids too? If you can't raise your kids properly maybe you shouldn't have had them in the first place (again, I'm sure there are exceptions, don't come at me with the single mom sob stories)

This is already solved by basing gun ownership on the household and not per individual.
want a gun?

your housing authority gets contacted,
and if anyone is mentally unfit (everyone in the household gets an extensive background check) you don't get to own a gun.

Add an appeal process
you have to go through a gun safety course, and have proof of ownership of the required things to safely store a gun from the other inhabitants.
that's it, problem solved

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 10 October 2022 - 07:22 AM, said:

billion dollar industries

billion dollar industries have been known to buy a lot of political influence and public media propaganda

Also popularizing transgender care has a side effect of "ethical" eugenics.
Most people that are trans have comorbid mental illnesses.
now they can't or are less likely to have children.

YAY!

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Aristotle Gumball, on 15 September 2022 - 11:51 PM, said:

What always personally bothered me wasn't so much the surgical mutilation, but the potential complications (and believability of the neovag). To be fair though, that person claims their issues went away eventually (after numerous corrective surgeries). They also live in Sweden, where these expenses are covered by universal health care. But OK, let's say this isn't a concern. The second thing is having to be on hormones for the rest of your life, which will also cause side effects (anything to do with extreme low test in men). As you know I struggled with dysphoria as a teen, so I have some sympathy for trans folk. I'm still friends with a few MTF's (a few years ago those were the only ones you'd meet) and they are decent albeit extremely traumatized and depressed individuals. Well, finally, I started to feel shame once I actually lived with a woman for the first time and saw the amount of shit that they deal with regarding their cycle, how it affected their mood, being physically weaker and deemed lesser in general in the eyes of men, and the risk of rape. It made me ashamed that I desired to be some over-sexualized version of it without considering all the problems. Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts. You do you.

Saw the image, that is due to a colon vaginoplasty.
that part of the colon will always smell like shit.

She can probably get the hole part of it removed and get it reduced to a zero depth.

Most places do penile inversion nowadays.
I will not be doing that either as the maintenance is nightmarish for someone with espresso depresso.

peritoneal vaginoplasty has an issue with unusual levels of discharge and can cause you to wear diapers for the rest of your life.

Zero depth is really the only non maintenance non smell option.
you don't get a hole, but I just want my dick to be gone, so it solves the problem.

Most of my friends are female, my mom had to deal with some of the most inhuman suffering as a child, and I have a sister.
so the understanding of, what ciswomen go through was obvious from the get go.

The cycle sucks, I don't have physical symptoms and it sucks.
MSM are also at high risk of rape.
most bisexual men I know besides me, have been raped.

We have a different reasoning in wanting those changes.
Mine has to deal with mainly severe body dysmorphia, along with gender dysphoria.
My current body makes me constantly uncomfortable.
esp. the phallus.

I know I will most likely be mostly always seen as a 3rd gender
(I will not get on the surgery train to be passing, and Idk, The voice of partially deaf gay man kind of can work, speech therapist the VA provided got me nowhere)
I can pass and have passed, it just, I mainly need to pay for facial electrolysis.
Also sex clubs are easy ways to pick up chasers, not how I picked up my current partner, we just met on tinder,
also not a chaser, much more into ciswomen.

coming up on a year in relationship wise, after a year of friendship before that,
it's worked out quite well.

EDIT:
I apologize for the 3 posts. Catching up on spice.

Also I want to say alot of the trans spokespersons/youtubers/whatevs
usually use stereotyping as their main reasoning of becoming trans
"I played with barbies, liked pink, played with hair, liked makeup" etc. etc.

I really think rhetoric like that should be banned for promoting self harm.
gender stereotypes should not be the reason that you transition.

in my eyes it's mainly extreme body dysphoria ((with a gender attachment (being seen as X)) should be the only reason that you change genders.

Women can dress as men, and not be men.
Men can dress as women and not be women.
they can like stereotypical other gender things, and not need to transition.
and identify as their biological sex.

Tomboys can exist, and so can metrosexual men.
It is kinda weird with seeing it being mostly effeminate men who transitioned.
I am the only masculine transwoman I personally know, and that strikes me as strange.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Congrats on the relationship! Only thing you didn't touch on was being on HRT for the rest of your life, so I take it you want to remove your dick, but keep the balls? I've never even heard of that. Fascinating!

[Phredreeke]

[Forge]

Never had an issue with someone surgically altering themselves. Have at it. I hope you are happy and you get counseling if you need it.

My gripe is that it creates a certain 'class' of people that now demand that their rights and feelings trump biology and everyone else's rights.
They are an untouchable class that can't be criticized, no matter how gross or absurd their actions, demands, or behavior becomes.

If you still have a penis, stay out of women's locker rooms and bathrooms.
If you don't have a penis, stay out of men's locker rooms and bathrooms.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Aristotle Gumball, on 26 October 2022 - 03:31 AM, said:

Congrats on the relationship! Only thing you didn't touch on was being on HRT for the rest of your life, so I take it you want to remove your dick, but keep the balls? I've never even heard of that. Fascinating!

It would remove both.
I think you can maybe if you want to?
yes you can it's called a penectomy.

there are scrotectomies, for removing the scrotum and the testes,
orchiectomies for just removing the testes,
Phalloplasties for keeping the dick as a pseudo giant clit, and having a vagina.

A zero depth gets rid of the dick and balls, and creates a small hole for primarily the urethra that requires little maintenance compared to the other options.

I did not mention being on hrt for the rest of my life, because I am on antipsychotics and antidepressants for the rest of my life, and those screw with everything just as much,
so the hrt is just something I don't personally keep in mind too much. But I agree, being reliant on the medical system (or just drugs in general) when you were not beforehand
has to be carefully considered and is not an I thought of it just this second ordeal.

The pills cause most of the permanent changes and have to be carefully considered,
including beta blockers, as they can cause bone density changes.

When one gets their balls cut off, t-blockers, are at least no longer required.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 26 October 2022 - 07:47 AM, said:

If you still have a penis, stay out of women's locker rooms and bathrooms.
If you don't have a penis, stay out of men's locker rooms and bathrooms.

I feel like if someone has a history of sexual assault they should just be banned from public (not lockable) bathrooms.
Unisex bathrooms have existed for a long time.
And nothing legally stops a man in a woman's bathroom, or a woman in a man's bathroom anyways.

IDK, the issue to me isn't who's in the bathroom, but who will sexually assault someone, be predator like, or who will place cameras in the bathrooms,
and those are really sexual predators, and though they are mainly one gender, both genders can and have done that to their own.
nobody sees my penis in women's bathrooms.
If I wanted to see a whole bunch of people naked I would go to a nude beach, or sex club, and not where a bunch of people are taking stinky ass shits.

Forge, on 26 October 2022 - 07:47 AM, said:

My gripe is that it creates a certain 'class' of people that now demand that their rights and feelings trump biology and everyone else's rights.
They are an untouchable class that can't be criticized, no matter how gross or absurd their actions, demands, or behavior becomes.

this is due to regular people letting trans people do that, hopefully that will change and people will just see them as human, and not just some protected class.
This is changing a bit in canada after a certain woodshop teacher.

certain majority and minority racial groups also exhibit this behavior.

[Danukem]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 26 October 2022 - 02:20 AM, said:

This is already solved by basing gun ownership on the household and not per individual.
want a gun?

your housing authority gets contacted,
and if anyone is mentally unfit (everyone in the household gets an extensive background check) you don't get to own a gun.

Add an appeal process
you have to go through a gun safety course, and have proof of ownership of the required things to safely store a gun from the other inhabitants.
that's it, problem solved

None of this matters if it's not enforced. How many young people who commit gun crimes in the inner cities (where a disproportionate percentage of gun crimes occur) do you think legally own the guns they use? It's gotta be close to zero, especially when you consider most of the high crime cities have pretty strong anti-gun ordinances that go above and beyond state laws. So if the illegality of the guns being used in most gun crimes now isn't stopping them, it's unclear how your proposal would either. With my comparatively modest proposal, it doesn't have this problem because it doesn't rely on disallowing guns before any crime is committed, only on allowing prosecution after the fact.

Also, the nationalized gun sanity and safety protocol that you are proposing will of course be highly politicized, with whoever is in charge of it motivated to make it harder/easier for their favored groups. This is pretty obvious because an "extensive background check" and a "safety course" must have a scoring system. People will want to apply affirmative action to it to equalize outcomes among groups. There will be debate about which answers are "unsafe". Etc. And you can't enforce it without causing a civil war. Not that a civil war will necessarily be avoided anyway, but I didn't think you were one of us separatists.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Danukem, on 26 October 2022 - 09:19 PM, said:

None of this matters if it's not enforced. How many young people who commit gun crimes in the inner cities (where a disproportionate percentage of gun crimes occur) do you think legally own the guns they use? It's gotta be close to zero, especially when you consider most of the high crime cities have pretty strong anti-gun ordinances that go above and beyond state laws. So if the illegality of the guns being used in most gun crimes now isn't stopping them, it's unclear how your proposal would either. With my comparatively modest proposal, it doesn't have this problem because it doesn't rely on disallowing guns before any crime is committed, only on allowing prosecution after the fact.

Also, the nationalized gun sanity and safety protocol that you are proposing will of course be highly politicized, with whoever is in charge of it motivated to make it harder/easier for their favored groups. This is pretty obvious because an "extensive background check" and a "safety course" must have a scoring system. People will want to apply affirmative action to it to equalize outcomes among groups. There will be debate about which answers are "unsafe". Etc. And you can't enforce it without causing a civil war. Not that a civil war will necessarily be avoided anyway, but I didn't think you were one of us separatists.

That would be a law to mainly reduce children getting access to firearms and shooting up schools and is a less shit stirring version of other ones.
The main trouble I have with your solution, is that it has been tried before, and hasn't been effective.
https://orleanshub.c...hot-by-brother/
https://www.tennesse...ings/323539001/
https://www.wral.com...ounty/18499311/

Alot have been charged in 2022

inner city crime could be reduced by banning open and concealed carry, and training the public on it with public media.
get the right and NRA to stop comparing our gun laws to Switzerland, and actually compare them to Switzerland.

I agree with you that this change would be overly politicized, but IDK, maybe give it 20-40 years and those numbers will change


I don't agree we are at brink of civil war.
The most unifying thing a nation can see, is putting us in another war.
with Ukraine currently that has helped, with our current hatred towards china,
I'm sure an angry china would also be a great unifying force.
(I doubt I'll be in any war unless it's a civil one)
https://www.washingt...us-china-chips/
this just happened.
I'm sure there will be a bigger rally and this is just an early domino.

[Danukem]

It's hard to assess the success of policies from a few news articles over a short period of time. Maybe it shows something, maybe it's anecdotal. We do know that deterrance works more or less in general though, so give it time and apply more consistently?

Just to be clear, I never said I was opposed to other regulations on guns above and beyond the one suggestion I made in response to a question specifically about school shootings.

Balls of Steel Forever, on 26 October 2022 - 09:54 PM, said:

I don't agree we are at brink of civil war.
The most unifying thing a nation can see, is putting us in another war.
with Ukraine currently that has helped, with our current hatred towards china,
I'm sure an angry china would also be a great unifying force.

I agree that as individuals, the vast majority of us can get along and that not many people have the desire or stomach for war. But it's a fallacy to go from that observation to the conclusion that a war won't happen.

If we have a civil war, it won't be because the people want it. Many of the things the feds do (or don't do) are wildly unpopular when people are asked, and yet here we are.

If it happens it will be because people in some states want to secede and then the federal government violently intervenes to stop them. Lies will be told about why it is necessary. Maybe the poor citizens inside the borders of the seceding state need to be rescued lol.

If we get hyper-inflation and the U.S. dollar becomes worthless, things will get ugly.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 26 October 2022 - 03:14 PM, said:

The pills cause most of the permanent changes and have to be carefully considered,
including beta blockers, as they can cause bone density changes.

When one gets their balls cut off, t-blockers, are at least no longer required.

Not just bone density changes, early onset dementia. In the more extreme cases, being sent to a care home in your 50s.

I am not trying to change your mind, but this interview with a MTF is well worth watching I think. They talk about all these issues (bottom surgery, osteoporosis, brain changes, etc):

[Danukem]

I saw a debate between Blaire White and Ben Shapiro from 4 years ago about pronouns and she kind of kicked his ass. She was being too nice though.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Apparently she cycles the hormones, being on estrogen for most of the year but sometimes coming off and letting natural test production kick back in. She hasn't had bottom surgery.

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 26 October 2022 - 03:24 PM, said:

IDK, the issue to me isn't who's in the bathroom, but who will sexually assault someone

i can't tell who will sexually assault someone by looking at them.

bathrooms and locker rooms for each sex have been around for a long time as well, and the people that use them should feel comfortable and safe in them.

Not everyone is as discreet as you. I understand your identity, but until you get your surgery so your body matches your brain, I wouldn't want you around my naked twelve year old daughter.

[Phredreeke]

Danukem, on 27 October 2022 - 02:29 AM, said:

I saw a debate between Blaire White and Ben Shapiro from 4 years ago about pronouns and she kind of kicked his ass. She was being too nice though.

I don’t know about that particular debate but there was another video with her and three other conservatives who started saying trans people were groomers and she was so fucking weak. Wish she could stand up to her wing as much as she does to the lefties.

Aristotle Gumball, on 27 October 2022 - 03:09 AM, said:

Apparently she cycles the hormones, being on estrogen for most of the year but sometimes coming off and letting natural test production kick back in. She hasn't had bottom surgery.

I thought this was when she wanted to freeze sperm?

[Aristotle Gumball]

She claims in that link it's to stave off the mental deterioration from being on estrogen. I haven't followed her for that long, so I don't know what other reasons there may be.

Btw 4 years ago she would've been 25. I always assume everyone's in their 30s at least. Just saying people evolve quite a bit at that age. I tend not to follow someone if they're an idiot in their 40s, since change is unlikely to happen at that point.

Forge, on 27 October 2022 - 06:19 AM, said:

i can't tell who will sexually assault someone by looking at them.

You probably can!
https://news.cornell...riminals-photos
https://detechter.co...look-different/

[Forge]

Aristotle Gumball, on 27 October 2022 - 07:52 AM, said:

You probably can!

it's easier to tell if a naked person has a penis or not & if they should be in the opposite sex's locker room, than if they actually identify as the gender they claim to be

[Aristotle Gumball]

Penis!

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Aristotle Gumball, on 27 October 2022 - 12:51 AM, said:

Not just bone density changes, early onset dementia. In the more extreme cases, being sent to a care home in your 50s.

I am not trying to change your mind, but this interview with a MTF is well worth watching I think. They talk about all these issues (bottom surgery, osteoporosis, brain changes, etc):

I'm already at risk of being sent to a care home in my 50s.
my partner knows that.

https://www.scienced...743609521005191
DATA
(same research article)

https://www.bmj.com/...oping-dementia/
(menopause)

https://aaic.alz.org...s-cognition.asp
this test did not isolate for people with or without comorbid illnesses.
or the fact that trans people are less likely to seek other health care.

Before such a statement can be made, more studies definitely have to be done.
Along with Isolating for Variables.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Aristotle Gumball, on 27 October 2022 - 07:52 AM, said:

She claims in that link it's to stave off the mental deterioration from being on estrogen. I haven't followed her for that long, so I don't know what other reasons there may be.

Btw 4 years ago she would've been 25. I always assume everyone's in their 30s at least. Just saying people evolve quite a bit at that age. I tend not to follow someone if they're an idiot in their 40s, since change is unlikely to happen at that point.

Anyone who votes for their own rights to be taken away is a dum dum.

like all people, she can make good statements sometimes, but is not someone I typically pay attention to.

EDIT:
Listening to this video, I have not had worse symptoms due to the hormones.
The only negative symptoms from hormones that I have noticed (joint pain due to body changes)
and PMS/PMDD symptoms

I have not been sold the neovagina as a fix all,
most of the research I had to do on my own.
My sex life improved post hormones, libido is extremely high.

them not describing the clitoral sensation as the primary way to have sex, is worrisome.
as it, seems like they never talked to women about how they cum.
Cumming is alot easier through ciltoral stimulation and the penetrative sex, even with cis people, primarily feels like pressure.

If this lady got mental health treatment beforehand, I don't think she would have transitioned, esp. with knowing they have BPD

with symptoms such as
A distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self.

Intense and highly variable moods, with episodes lasting from a few hours to a few days.

Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating. Please note: If these behaviors happen mostly during times of elevated mood or energy, they may be symptoms of a mood disorder and not borderline personality disorder.

Feelings of dissociation, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside one’s body, or feelings of unreality.

It would have made more sense to get the mental illness under control before any of these changes were made.

I agree with that statement on anti chasers,
why wouldn't you want someone who was attracted to you?

Ah, they do touch on the fact that people who are more comfortable with their vaginas are people
that don't need to use the hole.

she keeps stating that one of the reasons she changed was to have more sex with men,
which just isn't the case. You are going to have more sex with men presenting as a man.
Saying not having a dick makes them a bottom, is also a telltale sign that they are just a gay man.
I'll never be able to top, there are ways to top w/o a dick, this person seems sexually inexperienced.

She will change how she sees herself over time so much partially because she has BPD
which causes that, next interview, she could say wildly different things.

100% don't change yourself for other people, Blaire white, is fundamentally right on that,
She decided to go off hormones for 7 years. jesus.
She is a dum dum.
I wonder what turned off your sex drive.
I can tell this person 100% has bpd, because she doesn't obviously, and didn't get mental health care at that time.
and claimed it was the responsibility of other people.

Anybody that says transition skyrockets your happiness,
is a liar.

She didn't take her hormones, and doesn't want to take hormones.
when she got her penis removed.
what kind of stoopid.

she describes functional genital as a tunnel
Many women are born with a hole not deep enough for penises.
they can still have sex.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 27 October 2022 - 06:19 AM, said:

Not everyone is as discreet as you. I understand your identity, but until you get your surgery so your body matches your brain, I wouldn't want you around my naked twelve year old daughter.

I wouldn't want any adult naked around my kid (don't have one currently) without me or a trusted adult(partner, P.E. Teacher, doctor, grandmother, or sister)
esp. not alone
that esp. goes for male children in male spaces.
as men are less likely to report sexual assault.

[Danukem]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 27 October 2022 - 11:46 AM, said:

Anyone who votes for their own rights to be taken away is a dum dum.

like all people, she can make good statements sometimes, but is not someone I typically pay attention to.

If I had voted for either Trump or Biden in the last election, I would have voted "for" bad policies that I hated, and in either case that could be construed as me voting for my own rights to be taken away or something equivalently bad. I opted to not vote for either. But suppose I had, and I had voted for one of them on the "lesser of two evils" theory. Does that make me responsible for the consequences? I feel genuinely conflicted about it.

In Blaire's case I'm pretty sure it is a "lesser of two evils" thing. She's against medically transitioning kids, which the Dems are very much for (e.g. the bill signed by CA gov Newsom recently that allows kids to be come in from other states and be given transititioning hormones/surgeries etc. even if there is a custody dispute) If you regard that as extremely evil and you compare it to some Republicans who might take away your right to use the women's restroom, it's easy to see how you could come to the conclusion that the Republicans are the lesser of two evils and not be a dum dum. But let's suppose she votes for Rs who then start enacting genuinely anti-trans laws. It's hard to deny that she has some responsibility for that..I mean, there were other candidates from neither party she could have voted for, or she could have abstained from voting.

For me, the more obvious issue is what Phredreeke pointed out which is that she is not vocal about opposing the anti-trans stances on the right that she actually disagrees with.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Not @ anyone specifically, but I just wanna say that I still have a fair bit of body dysmorphia and other issues I deal with both mentally and physically. Once you hit your 30s though you realize what you can change and what you'll have to live with. I'm OK with a certain amount of discomfort. At the same time I leave open the future possibility of change. At least a few of the things I used to care about I no longer do.

Glad I didn't do anything I couldn't reverse.

[Forge]

Danukem, on 27 October 2022 - 12:59 PM, said:

anti-trans laws

what are anti-trans laws?

not letting someone born male compete in female athletic events?
forcing people born female to compete against someone with major physical advantages?

so which is being discriminated against, a mental state, or physical biology?

[Aristotle Gumball]

A lot of trans people are sexually molested children who were raised fundamentalist Christian, so they have internalized homophobia and self hatred (for being victimized) that makes them want to change, just so they can fit in.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 05:48 AM, said:

what are anti-trans laws?

not letting someone born male compete in female athletic events?
forcing people born female to compete against someone with major physical advantages?

so which is being discriminated against, a mental state, or physical biology?

Allowing the work force to discriminate against you because you're trans.
Maintaining gay and trans panic laws.
Disallowing trans people from health care.
Treating trans people as sex offenders.
Make it illegal to be trans.
Not allowing trans people in the military.
Allowing stores where you grab food and groceries to discriminate against you because you're trans.
Not being able to state anything about being trans in public schools, including being fired from your job for it.
Make attacking trans people not a hate crime.

I'm sure other people can add things to the list.

[Forge]

uh-huh.

most of those are already illegal to enforce.

the rest are situational. (e.g. trying to manipulate kindergarten to 3rd grade aged children to get surgery or go out of your way to give them sex ed classes where it's not warranted/appropriate. All attacks against trans people are not hate crimes. You can't force someone to make you a trans cake - they have free speech rights too & yours don't trump theirs, etc.)

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Aristotle Gumball, on 28 October 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

A lot of trans people are sexually molested children who were raised fundamentalist Christian, so they have internalized homophobia and self hatred (for being victimized) that makes them want to change, just so they can fit in.

"Expecting a 15 year old to know"
Most doctors follow an Informed consent model
also the side effects of all of your drugs nowadays are put together with your pill bottle
and you can always ask your pharmacist, endocrinologist, or your doctor, if you can't read a piece of paper online.
They tell you.

However, they shouldn't shit on her? for it.


I also have watched mainly detransitioner videos to see how I differ from them.
mental health issues need to be corralled before trans care.
I am ok with minors transitioning if
A ) mental health is corralled
B ) several (more then 1) psychologists have agreed upon it.

The reason that people transition before they're 30 is because most of the positive effects of hormone medication,
breast growth, body reshaping, hair reduction,
happen far before 30
It's physically optimal to start the medication prepubescence,
as physically, you would get the most benefits from it.
(I am not for this as mental health cannot be easily corralled prepubescence, and usually can be in late adolescence)

If one takes such things at that age it severely reduces their likelihood to do much of anything,
and you're stuck with relying on surgeries to make those things happen.
surgeries which are very expensive, and not usually covered by healthcare.
most trans people I have met regret not transitioning earlier because of this.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 11:03 AM, said:

I am ok with minors transitioning if

Naw. But I know your stance on it. It's whatever. We're just not going to agree.