[Mr. Nukem Roses]

well. i will say this, despite the auto aim not being on point like it is on EDuke most of the time, and the Grabbag theme sounded a bit weird. i can look past that and have some enjoyment in playing Duke Nukem 64 in another new way that's not using an emulator. i still will and forever will enjoy the mod version, but it's pretty awesome that Rednukem can run Duke 64 using a rom. i did a stream of it with the port a while back. and it was quite an experience in a way, to be using keyboard & mouse for a game originally made on the Nintendo 64

[Magmarock]

Why Rednukem and not eduke32?

[Phredreeke]

I would think it was easier to backport Duke Nukem 64's changes to vanilla Duke rather than make them coexist with two decades of enhancements and tweaks to the game code.

[oasiz]

This.

Plus many of the duke64 changes are done on game/engine side and not really necessarily something that belong to eduke32 itself.
Major game play changes in eduke can and should happen in "CON space" and this is where the TC comes in.
Rednukem's approach in turn allows an extremely accurate port down to the renderer.

Eduke32 is a moving target that keeps expanding moddability while rednukem is more about direct ports. If a feature is missing from eduke then it generally gets implemented.
I can imagine keeping duke64 code in sync with any new 'E'-nhancements would be tedious.

[Phredreeke]

The one thing I miss from EDuke32 is working controller code.

[Jimmy]

In my opinion, EDuke32 should go a more GZDoom sort of direction where if some ancient pre-EDuke32 mod is broken by virtue of improved or new features, oh well. EDuke32 should focus on the future, and RedNukem should focus on the legacy elements, console ports and old mods. That way you get the best of both worlds.

I also think RedNukem has outgrown it's original name, and could benefit from something better. I'm thinking of something simple that brings to mind and compliments the name BUILD, like Architect or Blueprint. Concrete? I dunno. It's something to think about. Now is the time to rebrand if you were gonna do it.

[Phredreeke]

I'm a bit confused, are you proposing Rednukem to become a sort of legacy EDuke32?

[Jimmy]

Not really because even now the scope of each project is pretty different, and of course legacy builds of EDuke32 going back years are still preserved. I think EDuke32 era mods that get broken by improved or new features should either be updated to fix issues or just played with the last revision it naturally works with. My point is that if EDuke32 breaks some feature from a mod from the 90s, should anyone really care? Just use RedNukem instead. I think there has been too much fuss about making EDuke32 compatible with every little thing, and I just don't find that constructive to the port's future.

[Phredreeke]

I agree but does that actually change the direction of Rednukem as it exists now?

[oasiz]

I guess the furthest rednukem should go really is supporting nam/ww2gi.
But I would not use these as a foundation, I recall that eduke2.0 already re-implemented a bunch of stuff like weapon behavior outside of the normal style, decisions that persist to eduke32 (but have been worked around).

Rednukem sort of offers us a port that JFDuke was, without the "highres" stuff.
A modding foundation for "Pure Duke" should be 1.5 (rednukem) I think.

Game module is split to support "duke engine" games: 1.5, duke64, RR, RR:RA

If anything, I think rednukem could support some extensions like TROR and the ability to load eduke32 maps.
Hightiles/etc.. Basically achieving parity with JFDuke and perhaps consider stabilizing the MP.

Outside of that, I do agree with Jimmy that rednukem should be the "oldschool" while eduke32 aims to be "newschool"

[Jimmy]

Phredreeke, on 11 March 2021 - 12:17 AM, said:

I agree but does that actually change the direction of Rednukem as it exists now?

Not really so much change the direction of RedNukem, but make the direction of EDuke32 more clear. For too long compatibility has been a hindrance to progress, and that's not necessary.

[Phredreeke]

oasiz, on 11 March 2021 - 01:14 AM, said:

Rednukem sort of offers us a port that JFDuke was, without the "highres" stuff.
A modding foundation for "Pure Duke" should be 1.5 (rednukem) I think.

Game module is split to support "duke engine" games: 1.5, duke64, RR, RR:RA

If anything, I think rednukem could support some extensions like TROR and the ability to load eduke32 maps.
Hightiles/etc.. Basically achieving parity with JFDuke and perhaps consider stabilizing the MP.

Rednukem already supports hightiles, it has done so since day one from what I recall.

[BOOTP]

Very much enjoying this port after many years spent with Fox's port.

I just wondered if there is a way to enable the homing of heat seeking missiles when Auto Aim is turned off?

[The Battlelord]

BOOTP, on 02 April 2021 - 05:01 AM, said:

I just wondered if there is a way to enable the homing of heat seeking missiles when Auto Aim is turned off?

AFAIK they works fine on Rednukem too, even when auto aim is totally turned off, indeed is not required to aim monsters directly.
However, i feel that the normal missles are stronger than the homing missles (like in the original cartridge).

[Fox]

The heat-seeking missiles code just forces auto-aiming before firing. Last time I checked Rednukem missed this bit of code, but it should be easy to fix.

The Battlelord, on 02 April 2021 - 02:51 PM, said:

However, i feel that the normal missles are stronger than the homing missles (like in the original cartridge).

They value for the damage doesn't change.

However, because the heat-seeking missiles are targeted closer to the target feet, the radius damage increases.

[The Battlelord]

Yeah, i suppose is a matter of context too, as sample: Boss1 goes down with 10 normal rockets ("if" aimed to the head), while it takes 15 heat seeking missles to kill him BUT, if the player uses normal missles without aim to the head it can take even more than 20 missles to kill Boss1.

In matter of precision, small places and also head shots against bosses, looks like normal missles works better (definitely better to heavily damage the Cycloyd Emperor) .

I'm not sure what happens against other monsters (those that can survive to rockets obviously) and mini-bossess, since aiming at the head seem that does not matter.

In terms of "shot without thinking about" and constant damages, heat seeking missles works better (exception against drones, those bastards avoid a good amount of missles ).

[Avenger]

What are the differences between this and the EDuke32 conversion?

I've read through the thread and the only thing stated is that it's a reverse engineering effort run directly from the ROM rather than a mod but what does that translate to game play wise? Has the rocket launcher heat seeking issue been fixed?

I started playing the conversion again and finished the first episode but all three rendering options have different issues which are kind of annoying.

I would't mind trying this version but would like to know what to expect before installing rednukem and going through the trouble of dumping the ROM from my cartridge.

Thanks.

[Fox]

Avenger, on 30 June 2021 - 11:43 PM, said:

What are the differences between this and the EDuke32 conversion?

I've read through the thread and the only thing stated is that it's a reverse engineering effort run directly from the ROM rather than a mod but what does that translate to game play wise? Has the rocket launcher heat seeking issue been fixed?

I started playing the conversion again and finished the first episode but all three rendering options have different issues which are kind of annoying.

I would't mind trying this version but would like to know what to expect before installing rednukem and going through the trouble of dumping the ROM from my cartridge.

Thanks.

This post is vastly superior to the conversion

[Avenger]

Fox, on 01 July 2021 - 11:07 AM, said:

This post is vastly superior to the conversion

In what way?

Elaborating would be helpful…

[Ninety-Six]

Avenger, on 01 July 2021 - 11:45 PM, said:

In what way?

Elaborating would be helpful…

Fox really hates the TC version.


I still want to know if it's possible to use his PSX soundtrack placement with the rednukem version, as I've never used RN before. The playstation soundtrack goes really well with Duke64.

[Avenger]

Ninety-Six, on 01 July 2021 - 11:56 PM, said:

Fox really hates the TC version.


I still want to know if it's possible to use his PSX soundtrack placement with the rednukem version, as I've never used RN before. The playstation soundtrack goes really well with Duke64.

Me neither which is why before I spend part of my weekend screwing around with it to run the ROM I'd like to know what makes it so much better than the EDuke32 conversion.

[The Battlelord]

Ninety-Six, on 01 July 2021 - 11:56 PM, said:

I still want to know if it's possible to use his PSX soundtrack placement with the rednukem version, as I've never used RN before. The playstation soundtrack goes really well with Duke64.

Fox did a PSX soundtrack pack too? I think i missed it.

If you are interested, i've used the PSX music pack from Hendricks and it works well (autoload), only side note you can't hear the monster screams when you kill'em, but is an issue that kick in if you place a music pack for Red Nukem (the last time i've tried at least) for some reason.

[Ninety-Six]

The Battlelord, on 02 July 2021 - 02:14 AM, said:

Fox did a PSX soundtrack pack too? I think i missed it.

I don't think he actually made the pack (though I could be wrong), but he did make the TC compatible with it and even aligned music for the levels that don't have an equivalent or were rearranged (such as the Battlelord and Overlord fights being separate levels; Fox hand-selected music for those).

It's why just the music alone isn't enough. It's why I want to know if those pointers are compatible with the RedNukem version as well, or could be made as such, before I also faff about with setting up an unfamiliar source port and rom dumping.

I realize it's a weird thing to hold up over, but I'll be straight honest. I just can't play DN64 without the (curated!) playstation soundtrack anymore. The two are now forever linked in my head and it would just be weird if I played it with the normal music (or the original lack thereof).

Plus the playstation music by itself would override the kickass grabbag version that the N64 game had.

[The Battlelord]

Ninety-Six, on 02 July 2021 - 03:47 AM, said:

It's why just the music alone isn't enough. It's why I want to know if those pointers are compatible with the RedNukem version as well, or could be made as such, before I also faff about with setting up an unfamiliar source port and rom dumping.

I realize it's a weird thing to hold up over, but I'll be straight honest. I just can't play DN64 without the (curated!) playstation soundtrack anymore. The two are now forever linked in my head and it would just be weird if I played it with the normal music (or the original lack thereof).

Plus the playstation music by itself would override the kickass grabbag version that the N64 game had.

There's not much stuff to set up, you'll find RN quite familiar, believe me.

Dumping: i was pretty scared when i read this word back then, it would have been a real pain in the ass to get the hardwere to extract the file... actually all you need to do is to download the DN64 rom and place it in the same RN's folder, that's all lol.

Music: The grabbag played in the main title is the DN64 one (with or without music pack).
Yes, if we wanna play with a music pack, we need a well made one, unfortunately the one i told you before it works in episode 1 only (well maybe i should say 'til level 7 in this case xD), and some musics does not fit well obviously.

About the "no screams" side effect, i just gave a quick look and Pig Cops only does not screams when killed (if there's a music pack).

[Avenger]

So, no ones actually played both the EDuke32 conversion and this to validate the claims that this version is substantially better or whether the rocket launcher heat seeking issue was resolved?

[Phredreeke]

It's better. You get 100% of the Duke Nukem 64 graphics, unlike the TC where it's a mix between PC and N64 graphics (granted, the PC tiles look better, but it's less authentic)
It also has a new renderer that properly replicates aspects of the N64 game

From my understanding, the TC's game logic was recreated by eye, unlike the port which uses CONs (as compiled bytecode) from the ROM

[Avenger]

Phredreeke, on 02 July 2021 - 02:31 PM, said:

It's better. You get 100% of the Duke Nukem 64 graphics, unlike the TC where it's a mix between PC and N64 graphics (granted, the PC tiles look better, but it's less authentic)
It also has a new renderer that properly replicates aspects of the N64 game

From my understanding, the TC's game logic was recreated by eye, unlike the port which uses CONs (as compiled bytecode) from the ROM

Thanks.

What about the heat seeking rocket issue?

[Phredreeke]

I don't know if that's been fixed yet, but it was an issue in a previous version at least

[Fox]

Avenger, on 02 July 2021 - 01:54 PM, said:

So, no ones actually played both the EDuke32 conversion and this to validate the claims that this version is substantially better or whether the rocket launcher heat seeking issue was resolved?

I have created the Eduke32 total conversion, and helped a bit with the Rednukem port. I think my word is worth something.

The total conversion was just an attempt to recreate the behavior based on what could be seen by the eyes, the Rednukem is a real port of the code.

And the heat-seeking bug has already been fixed in Rednukem.

Ninety-Six, on 02 July 2021 - 03:47 AM, said:

I don't think he actually made the pack (though I could be wrong), but he did make the TC compatible with it and even aligned music for the levels that don't have an equivalent or were rearranged (such as the Battlelord and Overlord fights being separate levels; Fox hand-selected music for those).

I just picked the music based on the similarity of the levels

Currently I would use this:

Battlelord = Faces of Death
Duke-Burger = Duke Royale
Overlord = Fusion Station
Area 51 = Alien Rendezvous
Castle Dukenstein = Gates Motel
Piracy = Death Row
Shaft = Lunar Reactor
Noctis Labyrinthus = The Abyss

[BOOTP]

Avenger, on 02 July 2021 - 11:04 PM, said:

What about the heat seeking rocket issue?

Fox, on 04 July 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

And the heat-seeking bug has already been fixed in Rednukem.

I think there is still a bug with the auto-aim feature and heat-seeking rockets.

I initially thought 'Custom' (cl_autoaim 3) was the fix added and although the heat-seeking rockets home, there is still heavy auto-aim on for all other weapons.

When auto-aim is set to 'Never' (cl_autoaim 0) the heat-seeking rockets do not home.

Also it seems any change to the auto-aim does not have any effect until a full restart of Rednukem.