[Danukem]

R A D A Я, on 21 June 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

Am I capable of agency when I'm asleep?

I specifically addressed that earlier. Here, I will bold the relevant bits for you:

Trooper Dan, on 21 June 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

Nonetheless it's easy enough to point out that persons are of a kind that has agency. Embryos do not have agency. A person may not have agency at every moment of its existence (a person may be in a deep sleep or a coma, etc.), but I would not call it a person if it had no such capacity. An embryo can grow into a thing that has that capacity, but it doesn't have it yet.

A car that is not broken down (or out of gas etc) has the capacity to drive. That doesn't mean it is driving every damned second. Sometimes it is "sleeping" in the garage, but still has the capacity to drive. A frame of a car or blueprint of a car or some other very unfinished yet-to-be-car does not have the capacity to drive and is not yet a car.

FFS, you would not do well in a philosophy or critical thinking class if this is your level of reading comprehension.

[Hank]

And what physicians say about disease is applicable here: that at the beginning a disease is easy to cure but difficult to diagnose; but as time passes, not having been treated or recognized at the outset, it becomes easy to diagnose but difficult to cure. The same thing occurs in affairs of state; for by recognizing from afar the diseases that are spreading in the state (which is a gift given only to a prudent ruler), they can be cured quickly; but when they are not recognized and are left to grow to the extent that everyone recognizes them, there is no longer any cure.
Machiavelli

I wonder, when will the Independence Day be cancelled?

[added, not worth another post]
"Planned Parenthood was founded by a racist, white woman," the staff wrote, referring to Margaret Sanger, who, among other things, once addressed a women's auxiliary branch of the Ku Klux Klan.
from
https://townhall.com...loyees-n2570982

No, I have no changed on abortion. But planed parenthood should be abolished. Like the BLM is against cops and not pro black lives, planed parenthood is organized population control, and not for parents to be.

[Radar]

Trooper Dan, on 21 June 2020 - 07:57 PM, said:

A car that is not broken down (or out of gas etc) has the capacity to drive. That doesn't mean it is driving every damned second. Sometimes it is "sleeping" in the garage, but still has the capacity to drive. A frame of a car or blueprint of a car or some other very unfinished yet-to-be-car does not have the capacity to drive and is not yet a car.

But a broken down car without the capacity to drive is still a car. A brand new car can reach the end of assembly and by freak occurrence something is f*cked and it doesn't even move. Just because it has no capacity to act as a car doesn't mean it isn't a car.

Trooper Dan, on 21 June 2020 - 07:57 PM, said:

FFS, you would not do well in a philosophy or critical thinking class if this is your level of reading comprehension.

Implying philosophy isn't a bullsh!t major. Those were all blow off easy A classes.

[Jimmy]

Most liberals are in favour of murdering the handicapped.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

R A D A Я, on 21 June 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

Implying philosophy isn't a bullsh!t major. Those were all blow off easy A classes.

Most of college is bullshit, Nietzsche went to college to become a minister, look at how that turned out.

jimmy is a stupid fuck, on 21 June 2020 - 09:17 PM, said:

Most liberals are in favour of murdering the handicapped.

I doubt that, most socialist programs are in favor of the disabled

“No one should face discrimination based on disability status. Democrats are committed to realizing the full promise of the Americans with Disabilities Act. We will protect and expand the right of Americans with disabilities to get the accommodations and support they need.”

- Democrats.org

It's fascists that want to cull the disabled, and the second a fascist comes knocking at my door, I ain't going to be buried under no fucking beautiful flower up on a mountain.

I'll knock his ass out and boil him neck down in a vat of lye before that happens.

When you see the head of a fascist outside my door, you'll know I stand for freedom.

Trump who is a fascist with not enough power guising as a republican, has a history of targeting Medicaid and other disability programs.

Fuck those motherfuckers.

If I have to deal with supporting a homeless father because of a motley crew of narcissistic money hungry sociopaths, I'm buying a deep fryer so I can put their face in it.

[Jimmy]

>socialists always lie

[Balls of Steel Forever]

jimmy is a stupid fuck, on 21 June 2020 - 11:11 PM, said:

>socialists always lie

Everyone lies lol, politicians just make a business of it.

If you're implying that I am a socialist well, I'm more of a dictatorship version of a slavophil with some communism spiced in for flavor.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Trooper Dan, on 21 June 2020 - 07:42 PM, said:

You are going to fixate on what I said because it gives you a target. Once again, trying to be Socrates, expecting me to put all my cards on the table and write a dissertation while you sit back and take pot shots.

Yeah, you see it.

On the topic: I totally believe the mother has every right to do as she wishes with what's growing inside her body because I believe in murder. I don't care about what classes as a person and we should probably have post-term abortions, doled out arbitrarily based on some kind of government mandated criteria. Praise death.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

thricecursed, on 21 June 2020 - 11:36 PM, said:

I believe in murder.
Praise death.

VOTE FOR OMNICIDE 2020

[Aristotle Gumball]

First you'd unfairly target one group by killing their pregnant women and babies in order to provide Meat for McDonald's new Double Homicide burger, which would get people really riled up, but then you'd switch to an entirely different group and kill their women and babies instead. This "strategy of tension" helps to prevent the stupid sheeple from knowing what the plan ultimately is. (Reduced population size)

Of course if it were up to me, I'd start with the right wingers, because I am a communist (specifically Maoism with an emphasis on devil worship).

[Balls of Steel Forever]

thricecursed, on 22 June 2020 - 12:11 AM, said:

because I am a communist

(specifically Maoism with an emphasis on devil worship).

Guys, he finally said it.

Mao is a deplorable sadistic tyrannic asshole of a human being, you should follow Tito, but I'm into some pretty kinky shit so I'm not going to try and convince you, and the devil really doesn't do anything.

"All things are done according to God's plan and decision; and God chose us to be his own people in union with Christ because of his own purpose, based on what he had decided from the very beginning."
Ephesians 1:11

This means that every murder, every rape, every act of pedophilia is done in accordance with God's plan not Satan's.

Satan is just propaganda so that god can blame his grade aaa insanity due to his infinite loneliness on something else, god created Satan knowing he would betray him, I mean who else creates this shit besides a guy fucked up in the head, because he likes to be seen as the guy responsible for love, have billions of people to torture and listen to, along with giving you the promise of bowing down to his "superiority" in the sky, egotistical maniac.

If you watched enough Hellraiser you know that hell is just the place for guys and gals who are heavily into sadomasochism. Hell is my party place.

"Explorers in the further regions of experience. Demons to some. Angels to others."

"pain and pleasure, indivisible."

I can't wait to get my freaky on with Nietzsche.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Wow! Balls of Steel - you are truly a gentleman and a scholar, as well as very handsome.

[Danukem]

Life is performance art. This forum, doubly so.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

thricecursed, on 22 June 2020 - 12:54 AM, said:

Wow! Balls of Steel - you are truly a gentleman and a scholar, as well as very handsome.

Thanks, you're making me blush.

But when you legitimately think you're Cartaphilus and God gave you the curse of eternal life just to watch the imposition of his tyrannical suffering until the end of time.

Him forcing noone to believe you because society's laws deem you as mentally defective.

And you believe you are forced to endure pieces of his shattered mind so he can watch as my morals slowly deteriorate into his cruel sickness.

I like to believe that that delusion is real because it gives me comfort that at least one will always know the truth of his purpose.

Knowing I will never reach hell or heaven, but always repeat the same story with an audience of none.

It makes me feel at peace.

Please don't encourage me though It's bad for the psyche.

Trooper Dan, on 22 June 2020 - 01:09 AM, said:

Life is performance art. This forum, doubly so.

I consider life to be more like John Cages art, dance, and musical career, nonsensical, disorganized, but absolutely beautiful.

[ck3D]

Hank, on 21 June 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

Sure, it’s easy to say, you must control entry into your home. Yeah, a bum would have no chance. But what if it is a horny operator hitting on a horny home owner?

Or - elephant in the room - what if the bum broke in? And in this act they actually do, on the regular.

Pretty sure men being so irresponsible they're willing to do away with human lives in order to remain just that is a timeless thing, just like the issue at its core is bound to always remain morally debatable, but I don't know about viewing abortions as something new or even contemporary just because it's being recognized and regulated nowadays. Pretty sure history has its fair share of men conducting them in more barbarian ways for both the mother and the child than how it can be supervised nowadays in just as (if not more) accessible and graphic manners that to me honestly sound worse, so 'science' is just really one method and is a fake culprit here. The real blame is to be put on our irresponsibility as humans. Now what I get is the fear that the value of life might be de-evaluated eventually in the case of some people abusing the modern system, but in a way part of me is also tempted to think that maybe those very people who can't appreciate life in the first place shouldn't necessarily reproduce if it's to provide their offspring with this type of education.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 22 June 2020 - 02:08 AM, said:

The real blame is to be put on our irresponsibility as humans.

it's unethical and wasteful not to eat what you kill

[Jimmy]

Balls Of Steel Forever, on 21 June 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

Everyone lies lol, politicians just make a business of it.

If you're implying that I am a socialist well, I'm more of a dictatorship version of a slavophil with some communism spiced in for flavor.

Take your time and read and digest the information before you jump to conclusions.

My point, rather, is that no matter how much the socialists speak of wanting to help the disabled, literally every time they rise to power those people are thrown into the nearest meatgrinder.

[Forge]

jimmy is a stupid fuck, on 22 June 2020 - 09:28 AM, said:

My point, rather, is that no matter how much the socialists speak of wanting to help the disabled, literally every time they rise to power those people are thrown into the nearest meatgrinder.

Stalin approves of this message

[Radar]

Balls Of Steel Forever, on 21 June 2020 - 10:55 PM, said:

Most of college is bullshit, Nietzsche went to college to become a minister, look at how that turned out

Nietzsche is a misunderstood genius. "God is dead" was a warning.

Balls Of Steel Forever, on 22 June 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

"All things are done according to God's plan and decision; and God chose us to be his own people in union with Christ because of his own purpose, based on what he had decided from the very beginning."
Ephesians 1:11

This means that every murder, every rape, every act of pedophilia is done in accordance with God's plan not Satan's.

Balls Of Steel Forever, on 22 June 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

Satan is just propaganda so that god can blame his grade aaa insanity due to his infinite loneliness on something else, god created Satan knowing he would betray him, I mean who else creates this shit besides a guy fucked up in the head, because he likes to be seen as the guy responsible for love, have billions of people to torture and listen to, along with giving you the promise of bowing down to his "superiority" in the sky, egotistical maniac.

>god doesn't exist because world bad
>typical normie argument against theodicy

There are very simple explanations as to why evil can exist in a world created by a just God.

- Without evil, there is no good
- Without God, there is no objective morality

[Balls of Steel Forever]

jimmy is a stupid fuck, on 22 June 2020 - 09:28 AM, said:

Take your time and read and digest the information before you jump to conclusions.

My point, rather, is that no matter how much the socialists speak of wanting to help the disabled, literally every time they rise to power those people are thrown into the nearest meatgrinder.

Tito poured 74% of social welfare money towards disabled/invalid relief benefits.

You can still have a communist country that supports the disabled.

I'm not going to go into other communist countries because most of them altogether treated normal people like human detritus, so I agree with you most communist countries are dystopias where the leaders are practically inhuman and lack any form of empathy.

Oligarchies like ours are starting to show their true colors these days with their own opinion on disability.

It's not just one side, it's both sides.

R A D A Я, on 22 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Nietzsche is a misunderstood genius. "God is dead" was a warning.

That wasn't sposed to be a hit against Nietzsche, Nietzsches philosophy has gotten me through dark times, I just thought it was funny that he went to college to become a minister and then later wrote the Antichrist.

R A D A Я, on 22 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

>god doesn't exist because world bad
>typical normie argument against theodicy

I never claimed god didn't exist, I just claimed he was insane.

R A D A Я, on 22 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

- Without evil, there is no good
- Without God, there is no objective morality

I also read Dostoyevsky.

R A D A Я, on 22 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

There are very simple explanations as to why evil can exist in a world created by a just God.

Yes, like the fact that he's insane due to eons of solitary confinement.

Saying the mass genocide of several races was performed by a just god, and not a sadistic maniac, is just misinformed.

[Mark]

In 4th thru 7th grade I had to attend a religious class twice a week at our local Catholic church. During a discussion about how God knows everything past, present and future, I made the mistake of asking something like " If God knew ahead of time that millions of people were destined for Hell because of turning away from him, why was he so cruel to let them be born?" The teacher contacted my parents and things didn't go well when I got back home that evening.

[Hank]

... and his partner just looks the other way ...

[Fox]

R A D A Я, on 22 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Nietzsche is a misunderstood genius. "God is dead" was a warning.

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125

R A D A Я, on 22 June 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

- Without God, there is no objective morality

There is no objective morality.

In the past, slavery was the norm and allowed in all societies.

However, our subjective morality changed the perception of slavery, and is today considered perverse in all societies.

[Danukem]

If that were a cogent argument, then it would also show that there is no objective astronomy. Different cultures historically have different origin stories for the universe and different opinions on what celestial bodies are, etc., and these change over time. Rise and repeat for various other sciences.

[Forge]

Fox, on 22 June 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:

However, our subjective morality changed the perception of slavery, and is today considered perverse in all most western societies.

fixed that for you

[Forge]

Balls Of Steel Forever, on 22 June 2020 - 02:23 PM, said:

Tito

was great, unless you were a croat or political opponent.
he ranks 13th, right below saddam hussein, for the most murderous regime of the 20th century.


but i do agree that we need to rip the bankers, bureaucrats, corporate dems, and neo-cons out of our government.

no more unelected and untouchable assholes running the show from behind a curtain
complete free market
term limits on ALL elected officials
ALL law & government officials that deal with creating or passing laws or legislature must be elected.
No packs, super packs, 'gifts'.
transparent donations from individuals only, and not to exceed a one time deposit of up to, but no more than, $100.

because it's supposed to be a government that is for the people and by the people. The government doesn't run the people, it's the other way around.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Mark, on 22 June 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:

In 4th thru 7th grade I had to attend a religious class twice a week at our local Catholic church. During a discussion about how God knows everything past, present and future, I made the mistake of asking something like " If God knew ahead of time that millions of people were destined for Hell because of turning away from him, why was he so cruel to let them be born?" The teacher contacted my parents and things didn't go well when I got back home that evening.

That's kind of hilarious. You were a smart kid.

I'm really glad I wasn't raised religious. My country was deemed the least religious in the EU/world (possibly?) some time ago. I think people still believe in a "force", but it's kind of vague and if you ask them to name it, they can't. I guess it's akin to a belief in an universal order of some kind.

Balls Of Steel Forever, on 22 June 2020 - 02:23 PM, said:

Saying the mass genocide of several races was performed by a just god, and not a sadistic maniac, is just misinformed.

This is the only form of Christianity I find acceptable.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 22 June 2020 - 09:19 PM, said:

was great, unless you were a croat or political opponent.
he ranks 13th, right below saddam hussein, for the most murderous regime of the 20th century.

Yes, I agree, Yugoslavia could have done better without so many unnecessary deaths, but he kept a nation together that absolutely despised each other.

Just like how the ottoman empire held the middle east together.

That does not at all justify his actions, but the best way to crush political dissent has historically been to kill or imprison all of them. With a dictatorship or monarchy this is sadly common practice as a dictator under the right uprising can be easily overthrown.

It's deaths to prevent civil war, and to ease the leaders paranoia.

In a democracy such as ours it's nearly impossible to overthrow our government as it's invisible.

Our rulers never truly make face.

I'd rather have a ruler transparent with his evil, then one that hides almost all of it.

Under a dictatorship you know and understand the harm that could come to you and your family if you dissent from the leadership.

You know and understand and can hold a sole person responsible for all evils committed by such a government.

You can band together and try to usurp such a leader if need be, full well knowing the fate that you face.

Just like they did in Russia during WWI.

Our democracy has no visible leadership.

We can't hold anyone responsible, there's 1 or 2 honest politicians, and the rest have been put in to power by an invisible hand.

This becomes an issue because how, how do we change things when we don't really know who's in full control.

Forge, on 22 June 2020 - 09:19 PM, said:

but i do agree that we need to rip the bankers, bureaucrats, corporate dems, and neo-cons out of our government.

no more unelected and untouchable assholes running the show from behind a curtain
complete free market
term limits on ALL elected officials
ALL law & government officials that deal with creating or passing laws or legislature must be elected.
No packs, super packs, 'gifts'.
transparent donations from individuals only, and not to exceed a one time deposit of up to, but no more than, $100.

because it's supposed to be a government that is for the people and by the people. The government doesn't run the people, it's the other way around.

I completely agree.

Will we be able to do that without usurping the controls on our government, only time will tell.

[Danukem]

I don't see why having a dictatorship would make the government honest in the way you seem to think. There could still be a shadow government behind the throne that would stay in power when the crown changes hands. I guess it would be convenient to blame everything on one person, though.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Trooper Dan, on 23 June 2020 - 02:39 AM, said:

I don't see why having a dictatorship would make the government honest in the way you seem to think. There could still be a shadow government behind the throne that would stay in power when the crown changes hands. I guess it would be convenient to blame everything on one person, though.

That shadow government is much smaller with a dictatorship then with a democracy, being that hundreds and hundreds of people are not going to guide the dictator, only a few are, this is one of the main arguments Hobbes makes in Leviathan.

The shadow government is easier to be found, because it is more transparent of which who he is supporting.

We have a name in Hebrew to describe such a person "Metatron" the angel behind god.

He ain't doing a good job at this moment.