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Duke CBP 2020  "Long time no see."

User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#1

We are working on a CBP and open for 1-2 mappers to join in. We already have some others. You can see the limits, ideas as of now, contributer list, and the info in my link below.

Basically this:

The Idea: We want to make a map that doesn’t have one theme or style. We want to make an episode really shortened into a form of a map, St1llWanted has given this idea a name its a ‘mapisode’. That means each mapper has to make a section that has a portal leading back to the hub (I provide this global style portal). This means you can create your section at your own will and style/choice. Whatever you want. There is a wall limit though. We need to save room for any potential joiners and the boss/hub area. I also don't want any order, most portals will be open to travel at any time. The player will have to do something in each area like collect a key or trigger something for progression.



Info: https://duke64nukem....8/duke-cbp2020/

https://duke64nukem.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/duke0023.png

This post has been edited by Sixty Four: 09 May 2020 - 09:26 PM

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#2

Sounds interesting I might be interested.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#3

I might actually find some time for this, right now would be the perfect timing for a break on my current project to focus on something different for fun. I could probably come up with a section in just a few days if you guys let me and the resources allow. Either way, good to see this being worked on, over the past months I was just thinking CBP's were getting rare and of maybe starting something similar, but I could never muster the courage to actually do it - really glad that people are still actively taking the initiative!

This post has been edited by ck3D: 10 May 2020 - 03:04 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

#4

"shortened into a form of a map"

If mappers are working on the same map at the same time, how are you going to make sure there are not multiple uses of the same tags and SEs for different stuff? How will you co-ordinate real estate on the Mapster grid? What if 2 mappers want a subway?

Or do you mean every mapper makes a totally separate map but with a portal to the hub? If so, why the wall limit?
Or, will each mapper take their turn before handing it over to the next mapper?

I'm missing something here. I see many problems.

This post has been edited by Mark: 10 May 2020 - 09:15 AM

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User is online   Sanek 

#5

View PostMark, on 10 May 2020 - 09:05 AM, said:

If mappers are working on the same map at the same time, how are you going to make sure there are not multiple uses of the same tags and SEs for different stuff?


Piece of cake. Mapper #1 use only tags numbers 1-99, guy #2 numbers 100-199 and so on.
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User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#6

That would be great if you both have an interest. Both of you are more than welcome to join. I'll be in touch with you soon that would be cool if you get the time and motive.

Mark for the details I have more to include, there's always something else to consider. Its just an early concept to give the main idea but people were getting interested so I wanted to post here to gather the final possible joiners. Details on how the map will proceed and a lot hasn't been fully planned. As of now St1llwanted has my hub and is adding his part already.

I don't want it to be large maps/areas because we just want to create a section of a map instead of a full blown map for each of us, it will be pretty easy to examine. So that way its no pressure and a stress free 2k wall limit, I think the stress free part is the attractive part, committing to an entire map is much more than an area you know? At this point the hub may even end up as my section area.

That is a concern but I've definitely had my shares of group projects and what may happen, so we are prepared to work through.
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User is offline   Mark 

#7

Thanks for the offer but between being busy with my own backlog of projects and probably not having enough talent to make a decent map relying only on vanilla assets, I'll pass.
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#8

If you're okay with someone who doesn't have any completed Duke maps (but some for other shooters) under his belt, I'd like to join up.
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User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#9

Sorry I'm the type that would take a risk with a newer mapper tbh, even though every mapper in this possibility.. is seasoned to very seasoned. But the spots are closed now. With the possibility of WG and ck3d it is closed pretty much, experience is better though you should make and finish a map. It would be an overload atm is all. Maybe there will be more of these, who knows.

This post has been edited by Sixty Four: 10 May 2020 - 08:35 PM

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User is offline   ck3D 

#10

Yeah I should find the time, and I don't have just the motivation but also the inspiration, this project is the fun outlet I needed and the guidelines are perfect for my situation, coincidentally.

I can split my allowed resources with Morpheus Kitami if they really want in, I like encouraging people to take part in mapping in general, although indeed I wouldn't mind seeing, say, screenshots even of incomplete Duke maps of theirs, not so much to judge (I don't like judging) but really out of curiosity in the style.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 11 May 2020 - 02:06 AM

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User is offline   ck3D 

#11

I can't edit my post from earlier for some reason. Just want to specify I recognize that whether or not you end up taking part is all ultimately the project leader's decision, but I'm curious to see your style nonetheless now.
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#12

Nah, don't worry about it, I don't want in that much. I've had my best stuff done doing collaborate projects like this is all, and I figured this might just continue the trend.
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User is offline   Dukebot 

#14

I think it's a great idea and I'm temped to join, but I seen that the slots are full and recently I have less time for mapping plus I have to finish my map. But I think it's agreat idea and it will be something I will enjoy playing.

@Sixty Four By the way, I love yor turok maps! Big fan of Turok 2 on the Nintendo 64, I also have the remastered version on Stem.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#15

I can't map (and it looks like the slots are full anyway) but I will give this my support at least. Previous CBPs have always wound up as among my favorites, whether they be single maps or entire episodes. So I am looking forward to the final product!

This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 11 May 2020 - 04:08 PM

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User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#16

View PostMorpheus Kitami, on 11 May 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Nah, don't worry about it, I don't want in that much. I've had my best stuff done doing collaborate projects like this is all, and I figured this might just continue the trend.


Well this won't be the last one, next time most likely. I've done many group projects now and it won't be the last. I'd love to see a map from you or even screenshots of any map stuff you have done actually. Care to show us any areas or things you have made before?
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#17

View PostSixty Four, on 11 May 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

Well this won't be the last one, next time most likely. I've done many group projects now and it won't be the last. I'd love to see a map from you or even screenshots of any map stuff you have done actually. Care to show us any areas or things you have made before?

If you've got ZDoom and a copy of Heretic lying around I can upload what I've done for a little Heretic mappack I'm working on, otherwise I can cherrypick some areas that look good and show them in screenshot form.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#18

I'm pretty much done with my part for this, I only need to implement a few SE's / M's, add some sprite detail here and there and design the ending scene (which I hope won't be too taxing on walls, I have about 150 left for a demolition scene and a little room, should be just about perfect). Sector count is pretty low with about 150 so far and I reckon the finished product should have around 1000 sprites so just about half the limit. Didn't use up too many tags either - even with the extra effects I want to add, we should be in the realms of a dozen or two. I reckon it should take 10 minutes of gameplay (maybe 15-20 going in blind) which I find funny because it's essentially the scale and scope of some full levels in the original game, just in the context of a bigger single map, I'm kinda into the meta aspect.

Besides the info in the link in the original post that regularly gets updated (but people don't necessarily keep up with), is there anything about the current status of the whole thing that perhaps you could make public? Assuming some people might be interested enough to wonder more about it - project is pretty cool or so I find.

Also, the positive reception it's getting is making me think it would be fun to do something like Duke Hard again.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 29 May 2020 - 05:06 AM

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User is online   Sanek 

#19

Is there a room for one more? I can donate some of my works!

I started a map 4 years ago that have night canyon-style setting. It have some spooky sounds here and there, and one of the most original settings I knew - the under-ground ghost town!


I never finished the map, but it have about 2000 walls/400 sectors in it (100kbs) and it's pretty linear. If I'll polish it a bit, can it be considered as the extened pre-portals sequence? Or even one the parts itself if you think it's good enough!
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User is offline   ck3D 

#20

View PostSanek, on 29 May 2020 - 07:11 AM, said:

Is there a room for one more? I can donate some of my works!

I started a map 4 years ago that have night canyon-style setting. It have some spooky sounds here and there, and one of the most original settings I knew - the under-ground ghost town!


I never finished the map, but it have about 2000 walls/400 sectors in it (100kbs) and it's pretty linear. If I'll polish it a bit, can it be considered as the extened pre-portals sequence? Or even one the parts itself if you think it's good enough!


Honestly I don't think CBP's should be a repository for abandoned works, or at least not when the context is that strict rules have been established for weeks and every participant has been working on original ideas with consideration for every resource spent the whole time. Also more personally, night canyon with ambient sounds feels like it would be redundant with my part too, and in general so far the themes everyone is going for (according to the link in OP) seem pretty complementary, so I'm not sure it would be wise to add anymore color to the mix at the last minute when the effort so far is coherent and there's barely any room left on the palette (see how people were turned down for original contributions in posts above).

I think you should just finish that map if you're that stoked on it despite having been sitting on it for four years - also the other day I got lost in the WIP threads on here and ran into the one you had started for that Zaxtor tribute map, the screenshots looked tight so I hope you still have it and can develop the scope you were saying you lacked to keep working on it at the time so that you can drop a playable version of it some day. In general if you're sitting on a lot of unfinished stuff, maybe you could come up with your own mapisode thing.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 29 May 2020 - 09:38 AM

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User is online   Sanek 

#21

View Postck3D, on 29 May 2020 - 09:31 AM, said:

Honestly I don't think CBP's should be a repository for abandoned works, or at least not when the context is that strict rules have been established for weeks and every participant has been working on original ideas with consideration for every resource spent the whole time. Also more personally, night canyon with ambient sounds feels like it would be redundant with my part too, and in general so far the themes everyone is going for (according to the link in OP) seem pretty complementary, so I'm not sure it would be wise to add anymore color to the mix at the last minute when the effort so far is coherent and there's barely any room left on the palette (see how people were turned down for original contributions in posts above).

I think you should just finish that map if you're that stoked on it despite having been sitting on it for four years - also the other day I got lost in the WIP threads on here and ran into the one you had started for that Zaxtor tribute map, the screenshots looked tight so I hope you still have it and can develop the scope you were saying you lacked to keep working on it at the time so that you can drop a playable version of it some day.


I understand that the inclusion of such themes (canyon/night/scary) might clash with parts made by others, but I don't think that including "abandoned works" is such a bad idea if you think about it. There's been CBP's with a single theme for a while by now, but since the OP suggests the whole portals idea I think it's really more of the opportunity (last chance?) to make use of something that you made but didn't release in one form or another. You're talking like it's a sin or something. If I'll be the only one who have such old-new part, there's nothing bad about it.

Besides, people make use of abandoned projects all the time. AMC TC's maps was based on some of the Imagination and Survival TC's abandoned maps he worked on decades ago. Of course, if the you and other forum members really don't approve the inctusion of such works then I'm not going to suggest it.


Spoiler

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#22

View PostSanek, on 29 May 2020 - 10:02 AM, said:

I understand that the inclusion of such themes (canyon/night/scary) might clash with parts made by others, but I don't think that including "abandoned works" is such a bad idea if you think about it. There's been CBP's with a single theme for a while by now, but since the OP suggests the whole portals idea I think it's really more of the opportunity (last chance?) to make use of something that you made but didn't release in one form or another. You're talking like it's a sin or something. If I'll be the only one who have such old-new part, there's nothing bad about it.

Besides, people make use of abandoned projects all the time. AMC TC's maps was based on some of the Imagination and Survival TC's abandoned maps he worked on decades ago. Of course, if the you and other forum members really don't approve the inctusion of such works then I'm not going to suggest it.


Spoiler



Hey Sanek what happened to that other project you were asking music for?
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User is offline   ck3D 

#23

Reusing content isn't a bad idea per se, but timing is key, here I think you're just underestimating the current status of the map (which is also the reason why I think it could use a public update to begin with - even myself I'm not so sure). Just a few days after I received the hub, I was told that a lot of people's parts were complete or almost complete already, which actually took me by surprise (and encouraged me to make my own section really fast as not to stay behind). If the core ensemble is done (and, again, other people's contributions have already been turned down due to lack of space), then it would be counterproductive to struggle to make room for enough resources to accommodate something completely external at the last second that wasn't designed with the same restrictions in mind at all (which doesn't have to be a problem, but may be), and could have very well stood on its own two feet if it weren't for the original author's personal lack of focus.

Now if you ask me, yes I do appreciate it when people join CBP's for the process of actively working with others on a piece and not just recycle old map bits for the (essentially more selfish) sake of just getting them out there, but that's just as debatable as it is personal and I'm trying not to let those considerations factor in what I'm saying, I don't necessarily disagree with your point.

Again I'm not the project leader, and you've expressed your interest - who knows what might happen with the level in the near future, maybe space will free up. But if things don't work out, then nothing prevents you from starting your own community mapisode thing on the basis of that level and according to your own rules - to me that sounds like the exact same thing, just free from all the considerations of resource availability that exist on this one, that's all I'm really saying.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 29 May 2020 - 10:55 AM

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#24

I agree that it’s a bad idea to add abandoned work. The whole point is to get together and create something new. At least that’s what i think. A community project consisting only of abandoned maps could be fun lol
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User is offline   Mark 

#25

Considering what I've read over the years, that abandoned map CBP would consist of at least 100 maps. ;)
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User is online   Sanek 

#26

@Mike Norvak Check your e-mail.


View Postck3D, on 29 May 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

Reusing content isn't a bad idea per se, but timing is key, here I think you're just underestimating the current status of the map (which is also the reason why I think it could use a public update to begin with - even myself I'm not so sure). Just a few days after I received the hub, I was told that a lot of people's parts were complete or almost complete already, which actually took me by surprise (and encouraged me to make my own section really fast as not to stay behind). If the core ensemble is done (and, again, other people's contributions have already been turned down due to lack of space), then it would be counterproductive to struggle to make room for enough resources to accommodate something completely external at the last second that wasn't designed with the same restrictions in mind at all (which doesn't have to be a problem, but may be), and could have very well stood on its own two feet if it weren't for the original author's personal lack of focus.

Now if you ask me, yes I do appreciate it when people join CBP's for the process of actively working with others on a piece and not just recycle old map bits for the (essentially more selfish) sake of just getting them out there, but that's just as debatable as it is personal and I'm trying not to let those considerations factor in what I'm saying, I don't necessarily disagree with your point.

Again I'm not the project leader, and you've expressed your interest - who knows what might happen with the level in the near future, maybe space will free up. But if things don't work out, then nothing prevents you from starting your own community mapisode thing on the basis of that level and according to your own rules - to me that sounds like the exact same thing, just free from all the considerations of resource availability that exist on this one, that's all I'm really saying.


I don't know about the status of the project, so I get your point about timing. TBH it always seemed strange to me how everybody manage to make their parts as good as they are, considering all the limitations of working with others. Every wall and sector counts, so I guess there's really not much use for someone who come as late to the party as I am. And I get the buller's point about getting together and make something new, but as I understand this CBP is not something like CBP8 so it's more like various parts matched together than a united effort. That's why I suggested my stuff in the first place, because I didn't think that It'll cause problems with the other''s parts.

But anyway, I get you guys so I won't insist on adding my old map your new stuff...but let's hear the OP first, shall we? ;)
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User is offline   Merlijn 

#27

View Postbullerbullerseven, on 29 May 2020 - 11:09 AM, said:

A community project consisting only of abandoned maps could be fun lol


That could actually be pretty cool, an entire map stitched together from abandoned maps and sections.
We can call it FrankenCBP or something.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#28

View PostMerlijn, on 30 May 2020 - 02:09 AM, said:

That could actually be pretty cool, an entire map stitched together from abandoned maps and sections.
We can call it FrankenCBP or something.


Jokes aside, as Mark pointed out there's definitely enough scratched material for more than just one map on everybody's HD's - probably several episodes' worth in total. Someone dedicated to copy-pasting could definitely stitch together some cool layouts on the basis of all that lost work, I'm sure there would be a pattern in the themes as well that would allow actual levels, but putting thought into connecting everything in qualitative ways alone would be a tremendous task (if, say, dozens of scratched maps are submitted). Thinking of all the hours people did put into some sometimes ambitious maps that never amounted to anything playable in the end is crazy - just dedicating some of my spare time to mapping freaks me out like I'm irresponsible sometimes but the sum of everything, including the bottom of the iceberg that no one but the direct authors ever got to see? Imagine adding it all up.

One could argue that finalization and release in a given state is what makes a work's qualities for good, though. Imagine going through piecing together all the lost maps from most everyone, only to realize later in the process that the episode you're forming is going to suck despite your best efforts at joining things in the smartest ways, just because of a persistent lack of coherence. Essentially, that would be the true sacrifice.maps spent in the editor without even enjoying the most fundamental, personal joys of building. Doesn't sound too bad on a smaller scale initiative that'd be worthier of the investment, though.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 30 May 2020 - 04:22 AM

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User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#29

Here's a little update on where we are.

I want to increase the wall limit to 2.3k

mappers confirmed:
ck3D
St1llWanted
StarCraft
JMW
Sixty Four

This means all the original portals in the hub are taken now. And the 3 keycards are being used. I don't want to add more keycards, so one of the portals opens other places in my hub. It allows you to reach the finale portal.

We still have openings. It has to be new creations. So we can just make something here together.

The boss arena is still open.
There is a secret area in my hub that could turn into a custom secret area. This can just be a fun secret area.
I can even add another portal if needed.

To all the mappers, once I get every part in place. I will allow us to overview our parts one last time. To ensure your own quality.
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User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#30

View PostMike Norvak, on 29 May 2020 - 10:14 AM, said:

Hey Sanek what happened to that other project you were asking music for?


Hey I actually was wondering if anyone thinks they could make custom music for this. Remember there is a variety of areas so its not one set atmosphere. Some type of music that can fit many types... Would be cool.
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User is offline   ck3D 

#31

Thanks for the update,

View PostSixty Four, on 30 May 2020 - 10:00 PM, said:

I want to increase the wall limit to 2.3k


That would be a relief for me, actually - I could definitely use some extra walls for the last scene/room in my section. Less than 300 too, most likely, but if you do raise the limit to 2.3k then I'm tempted to also add one quick secret place or two and stuff if comfort allows. Either way, finishing my part should be a matter of just a couple of hours, so basically whenever you need it you can just notify me and I'll wrap it up and send it to you, or I'll just get it done sometime this week anyway. Not sure of how much progress has been made by everybody since you last told me, but essentially on my end I'm just about ready.

So no bullerbullerseven in the end, and no WG?

This post has been edited by ck3D: 31 May 2020 - 02:23 AM

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