[Ninety-Six]

Since I'm already doing a fine job of annoying the developers, I'll just put all my general clipping issues into a single thread to reduce board clutter. I'll just add to this as I find more.

• Movement in vents is much slower, especially on slopes
  
• Getting into vents is still difficult. Better, but difficult
  
• Water clipping is...odd. Trying to get out can sometimes be difficult (where you are repeatedly shoved away from the wall and made to sink lower into the water), and rapidly spamming jump can sometimes, somehow, result in a megajump, easily allowing for unintended sequence breaking.
  
• Corners. Just...corners. Walking into a corner of somewhere less than 90 degrees results in rapid pinballing. May be related to the getting out of water issue above.
  
• Upon trying to get the yellow key in E3L8, not only did I get stuck and crushed in the alcove, I somehow got so stuck that even after turning on god mode and noclip I still couldn't move.
  ???!

[Ninety-Six]

On that second point, it's actually completely impossible to access the secret under that one diner table in Caribbean's secret level.

[Doom64hunter]

Ninety-Six, on 27 April 2020 - 02:38 AM, said:

• Corners. Just...corners. Walking into a corner of somewhere less than 90 degrees results in rapid pinballing. May be related to the getting out of water issue above.

I am unable to reproduce this one, the others I was able to verify. Any specific conditions you encountered this on?

[Ninety-Six]

I am bumping this thread to report that collision is still screwy. I've been withholding on this for quite some time as I was waiting on something I could reproduce, but at this point screw it.


So first and by far the most problematic is it's still very possible to somehow launch yourself out of bounds whereupon you will immediately be crushed to death. This keeps happening quite frequently, and I can't find any common links between instances other than I was running at the time. I know accidentally clipping out of bounds has been a staple of this game since the DOS days, but these seem worse since you end up going so far out of bounds you need the map to get back. I remember before you were still half enough inside bounds to still see the level.


Duke's hitbox vs. small spaces is also broken. There are vents and spaces he used to be able to access before the clipping revisions that he now can't, and contrarily there are now also spaces he wasn't supposed to be able to access that he now can. For instance:



These windows in E2L2 are accessible from the outside. The tunnel for the shootable switch in the engine core in E2L4 is also accessible by Duke.

Meanwhile crawlspaces that are above Duke seem to be virtually impossible to get into.

[Doom64hunter]

Ninety-Six, on 01 July 2021 - 07:12 PM, said:

I am bumping this thread to report that collision is still screwy. I've been withholding on this for quite some time as I was waiting on something I could reproduce, but at this point screw it.


So first and by far the most problematic is it's still very possible to somehow launch yourself out of bounds whereupon you will immediately be crushed to death. This keeps happening quite frequently, and I can't find any common links between instances other than I was running at the time. I know accidentally clipping out of bounds has been a staple of this game since the DOS days, but these seem worse since you end up going so far out of bounds you need the map to get back. I remember before you were still half enough inside bounds to still see the level.


Duke's hitbox vs. small spaces is also broken. There are vents and spaces he used to be able to access before the clipping revisions that he now can't, and contrarily there are now also spaces he wasn't supposed to be able to access that he now can. For instance:

duke0053.png

These windows in E2L2 are accessible from the outside. The tunnel for the shootable switch in the engine core in E2L4 is also accessible by Duke.

Meanwhile crawlspaces that are above Duke seem to be virtually impossible to get into.

I knew about the engine core passage, fixing it is tricky. Though I didn't know about the window, thanks for mentioning it.

About the crawlspaces, have you found any more examples? We already fixed (or tried to fix) the vent issues in Duke DC for example, and I didn't find any more instances in the stock levels.

Launching out of bounds, this I have not observed myself so far. Do you recall any maps and locations where this occurred in the past?

[Ninety-Six]

Doom64hunter, on 02 July 2021 - 05:46 AM, said:

About the crawlspaces, have you found any more examples? We already fixed (or tried to fix) the vent issues in Duke DC for example, and I didn't find any more instances in the stock levels.

I'm pretty sure there was at least one in the vanilla or expansion packs yet remaining, but it's not coming to mind as of yet.

I do play this game more than once annually so I'll probably have an answer for you before super long.

Doom64hunter, on 02 July 2021 - 05:46 AM, said:

Launching out of bounds, this I have not observed myself so far. Do you recall any maps and locations where this occurred in the past?

Far too many to really name one specific, since I was unable to replicate the effect after every time it happened I didn't bother to commit the names to memory. I can tell you it has happened in vanilla, expansion, and user maps all. Though now thinking on it, I think these all happened in crawlspaces/vents as well. Running/straferunning full speed "uncrouched" (or what the game considers "uncrouched" in a vent) into a wall or corner.

[Danukem]

Ninety-Six, on 02 July 2021 - 03:44 PM, said:

Far too many to really name one specific, since I was unable to replicate the effect after every time it happened I didn't bother to commit the names to memory. I can tell you it has happened in vanilla, expansion, and user maps all. Though now thinking on it, I think these all happened in crawlspaces/vents as well. Running/straferunning full speed "uncrouched" (or what the game considers "uncrouched" in a vent) into a wall or corner.

My understanding is that the devs and Doom64hunter in particular rely on test cases. So if it happens in a particular place, its best to document it, even if it doesn't happen consistently. From the dev standpoint, knowing that there's a 10% chance of it happening in a particular spot in a particular map is way more useful than just knowing it can happen sometimes but who knows where.

[Ninety-Six]

Danukem, on 02 July 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

My understanding is that the devs and Doom64hunter in particular rely on test cases. So if it happens in a particular place, its best to document it, even if it doesn't happen consistently. From the dev standpoint, knowing that there's a 10% chance of it happening in a particular spot in a particular map is way more useful than just knowing it can happen sometimes but who knows where.

Noted for future reference, then.

[Doom64hunter]

Update: The window on E2L2 can be glitched through in DOS. Not an eduke32 bug. Besides, the window doesn't lead anywhere the player hasn't already been.

[Ninety-Six]

Doom64hunter, on 05 July 2021 - 08:48 AM, said:

Update: The window on E2L2 can be glitched through in DOS. Not an eduke32 bug. Besides, the window doesn't lead anywhere the player hasn't already been.

It can be, but it is significantly more difficult. I just tried it myself. In DOS I could get it maybe 1 in 12 tries or so.

In eDuke, I never failed to once. I think the DOS version of this bug is either a different bug with a similar result like the strange old jump/crouch bug, or it's a bug that was made significantly more prominent through the revisions of eDuke32, like the SOS warping glitch.

[Doom64hunter]

Ninety-Six, on 01 July 2021 - 07:12 PM, said:

The tunnel for the shootable switch in the engine core in E2L4 is also accessible by Duke.

To give you an example for why these clipping issues are hard to resolve:

Try the following map in DOS Duke3D or r6775 (for example): https://voidpoint.io...stepheights.map

Try to crouch up the stairs. Doesn't work right? In fact, you cannot even pass the smallest step.
Now try it in r9461. You can perfectly pass the steps while crouched. This is one of the issues that commit r7428 fixes. It also turns out to be the exact same change that causes the problem on E2L4.

The reason you normally cannot enter the small corridor on E2L4 in DOS Duke 3D is the same reason you cannot pass the smallest step in the map I linked. E2L4 was designed to rely on this flaw.

So how do we fix one issue without reintroducing the other?

[Ninety-Six]

Doom64hunter, on 06 July 2021 - 03:34 AM, said:

So how do we fix one issue without reintroducing the other?

How viable would it be to put in a check for the game to look at the crouch/short step scenario and check the corresponding height value of that sector before deciding whether the player should be blocked or not?


Or, failing that, at least the vanilla level should be granted an exception. If it can't be coded to detect E2L4 and revert to the original behavior without breaking something else, what about an internal default like with the midis? If it detects E2L4.map, then it uses a slightly modified version that has a proper player blocking wall in that area? I can see why that might cause conflict with other E2L4s, but surely there should be some way to identify if the map is the actual E2L4? I don't really understand what a hashstring is but is that a viable means of detection, combined with the E2L4 map name?

[Ninety-Six]

Here's a specific instance of the corner kill bug:



This corner in Skycity3, 3rd floor.



I can't reproduce it, as usual, but this happened on the most recent revision as of this posting.

[Doom64hunter]

Ninety-Six, on 20 July 2021 - 02:52 PM, said:

Here's a specific instance of the corner kill bug:

duke0099.png

This corner in Skycity3, 3rd floor.

duke0100.png

I can't reproduce it, as usual, but this happened on the most recent revision as of this posting.

I'm able to reproduce it consistently, and made a test map from it: https://voidpoint.io...32/-/issues/176

[Doom64hunter]

Getting crushed by static walls should now be a thing of the past as of r9569

[Ninety-Six]

Ninety-Six, on 05 July 2021 - 03:27 PM, said:

It can be, but it is significantly more difficult. I just tried it myself. In DOS I could get it maybe 1 in 12 tries or so.

In eDuke, I never failed to once. I think the DOS version of this bug is either a different bug with a similar result like the strange old jump/crouch bug, or it's a bug that was made significantly more prominent through the revisions of eDuke32, like the SOS warping glitch.

I also repeat this. Even sentry drones can reliably get stuck in the room now.