[Hank]

Trooper Dan, on 03 February 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

Is Mormonism a religion?

Yes and No.
Yes, as in worshiping a divine being; and no, they don't follow Christian doctrines, or they are sacrilegious.
here is a neutral link to this
http://www.religious...rg/lds_intr.htm

@ Forge, nah this is The Church of Satan. Only there can you play god.

[Danukem]

A religion is a set of beliefs and practices -- it is a kind of social construct. Whether those beliefs and practices correspond to actual divinity is a separate question. Even if the answer to that question is affirmative for some religions, you don't want to bake actual divinity into the definition of religion itself. If you do that you end up playing a strange game of linguistics where an obvious religion gets denied religious status because of its faulty beliefs.

More clarity:

Religion (as characterized by what people believe and do) is a social phenomenon

God (or other divine entities) if they exist, are not a social phenomenon

[Forge]

Organized religion is the government for churchians.
Government is the religion for the godless.
God is the governing body for the divinely inspired.

Now go worship your speed limit sign.

[Forge]

Hank, on 03 February 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

@ Forge, nah this is The Church of Satan. Only there can you play god.

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

[Hank]

Forge, on 03 February 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of a physical relationship between God the Father and Mary (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115; Mormon Doctrine, p. 547). Mormons believe Jesus is a god, but that any human can also become a god (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345–354). Mormonism teaches that salvation can be earned by a combination of faith and good works (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

There is a subtle difference between the postulation of to become like god (living forever) and be god.
Church of Satan,says "You are your own god", Mormons say "You may become like god, if you .....

[Forge]

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.69 - p.70:

Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves



Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20:

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, ...Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; ...and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, ...and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.



etc., etc., etc., etc.

[Hank]

Forge, on 03 February 2020 - 05:30 PM, said:

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.69 - p.70:

Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves



Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20:

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, ...Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; ...and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, ...and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.



etc., etc., etc., etc.

This reminds me on Revelation 20:5-6 (NABRE)
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over these; they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for the thousand years.

Looks to me, this Mr.s Smith went on the tangent, but stood inline with the basic premise that those of the first resurrection have a superior place in heaven. But they ain't not no thee God Almighty.

This is as far is I'll go, with this..

[Jimmy]

Radar 100 Watts, on 25 January 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

That's all fine and I have no problem with the pedophile priest video. My point was that it is extremely easy for humans to invent the God they want to serve instead of following the narrow path God has already laid down for us.

That's fair. But you'd have to believe the Bible is completely infallible, which we know it can't be. It was divinely inspired, not divinely authored. Big difference. We know the Bible is fallible in certain situations because people have used it to advocate things that God clearly detests for centuries. The Bible is just a tool to connect to God, but because of this fallen world we live in, it can be corrupted. It shouldn't be. But it can be.

Radar 100 Watts, on 25 January 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

No, but it's a combination of Romanian folk + concert band style with rock-style drums at its heart. A friend of mine sent me a recording last month from behind the drum cage at practice. I'm playing drums and I also wrote the arrangement.

So what are you, Tomas Kalnoky? This is pretty sick, dude. Kudos. I didn't know you were a legit musician. There's so much boring ass church music out there, I'd come to see something like this. We used to have a really great music director at my pops' church, but they've really had to downscale the past few years (congregation is literally dying out.) He could really bang out Days of Elijah, a remaining favourite of mine to sing along to. Music is a touch corny but the lyrics are boss.

Radar 100 Watts, on 25 January 2020 - 08:48 PM, said:

Scripture serves as the backbone of our ability to understand who God is. I'm not saying we can't communicate with God, but it is limited as a result of the Fall of Man. Scripture is intended to be the catalyst for discernment.

I think we're really arguing for the same thing in a different lexicon then. The fact I do psychedelics and daily dose with iodine probably doesn't help our disconnect here. lmao

Tea Monster, on 31 January 2020 - 07:57 AM, said:

I honestly had no idea what they were talking about after my comment. Especially the cartoon. It was the Republican treasurer Salmon Chase who caved to God botherers and had "In God we trust" first added to US currency. I'm honestly not sure what message is supposed to be conveyed there.

Religion has no place in government because you DO want freedom of religion. You practice your religion in your home/church/mosque/synagogue, not in the legislature. That's the whole point of it. It's freedom of religion - ALL religion, not just fundamental Christians. Once you start making laws that favour one religion, you are oppressing another. The founding fathers had seen what happened in England and in the early colonies (cheerfully murdering each other over scripture interpretations) and decided the state should wisely have no part in religion. I take it that went over their heads at 30,000 feet? Of course it did!

It's a direct reference to the Declaration of Independence:

Quote

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. .... and so on ....

Acknowledging the existence of God, which almost all of the Founders did, is not religion. It is accepting reality. They were Masons after all.

Photonic, on 31 January 2020 - 10:55 AM, said:

The seperation of Church and state should apply to the satanic cult too though.

And we see it applying to them the least.

Tea Monster, on 31 January 2020 - 03:10 PM, said:

Radar: I'm sure that there was a form of "leftist projection" back in 1776. But I highly doubt it was anything like what you are thinking about. I don't think that they went through the street shouting "But, Jefferson's telegrams!"

What you're trying to think of is The Federalist Papers and The Anti-Federalist Papers, and yes, people did go through the streets shouting about them. Actually running through the streets shouting about political shit was very common then. 1776 has already commenced again.

Forge, on 03 February 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

Organized religion is the government for churchians.
Government is the religion for the godless.
God is the governing body for the divinely inspired.

Now go worship your speed limit sign.

Man fuck the government. I got a 74 in a 60 ticket the other day.

Hank, on 03 February 2020 - 02:45 PM, said:

There is a subtle difference between the postulation of to become like god (living forever) and be god.
Church of Satan,says "You are your own god", Mormons say "You may become like god, if you .....

Actually the written Satanic Bible is a decoy. None of them at high levels of the organization actually believe any of that shit and they legitimately worship Satan as their own personal "god." Mark Passio talks about this at length on a regular basis. The entire church just makes up shit that sounds good and puts it out to the public, and idiots just eat it up.

[Forge]

Hank, on 03 February 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

This reminds me on Revelation 20:5-6 (NABRE)
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over these; they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for the thousand years.

Looks to me, this Mr.s Smith went on the tangent, but stood inline with the basic premise that those of the first resurrection have a superior place in heaven. But they ain't not no thee God Almighty.

This is as far is I'll go, with this..

serving God as a priest and becoming a god are two different things.
Mormons clearly believe they will become gods themselves, independent of God, if they prove themselves in this life and live up to the standards of Joseph Smith.

[Forge]

Jimmy, on 03 February 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

That's fair. But you'd have to believe the Bible is completely infallible, which we know it can't be. It was divinely inspired, not divinely authored. Big difference. We know the Bible is fallible in certain situations because people have used it to advocate things that God clearly detests for centuries. The Bible is just a tool to connect to God, but because of this fallen world we live in, it can be corrupted. It shouldn't be. But it can be.

right.
use the radio and tune in to the right frequency, but don't worship the radio

[Radar]

Jimmy, on 03 February 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

That's fair. But you'd have to believe the Bible is completely infallible, which we know it can't be. It was divinely inspired, not divinely authored. Big difference. We know the Bible is fallible in certain situations because people have used it to advocate things that God clearly detests for centuries. The Bible is just a tool to connect to God, but because of this fallen world we live in, it can be corrupted. It shouldn't be. But it can be.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I do believe that the Bible is infallible and divinely authored. Just because people did bad things in the name of the Bible doesn't mean the Bible is flawed. Never judge a worldview by its abuse.

Jimmy, on 03 February 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

So what are you, Tomas Kalnoky? This is pretty sick, dude. Kudos. I didn't know you were a legit musician. There's so much boring ass church music out there, I'd come to see something like this. We used to have a really great music director at my pops' church, but they've really had to downscale the past few years (congregation is literally dying out.) He could really bang out Days of Elijah, a remaining favourite of mine to sing along to. Music is a touch corny but the lyrics are boss.

Thanks man. It is so sad to hear that the attendance at your church is dying out. Low church attendance is a nation-wide epidemic right now. What you heard in that audio is what American churches sounded like 50 years ago. Every decent sized church used to have a sick brass band and a rocking choir to boot. Most churches lost their band/choir due to shrinking membership, and the remaining decent-sized ones replaced it all with pizza and guitars to try to appeal to youngsters, and people are still leaving.

Jimmy, on 03 February 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

I think we're really arguing for the same thing in a different lexicon then. The fact I do psychedelics and daily dose with iodine probably doesn't help our disconnect here. lmao

Dude, God is not gonna like this.

[Jimmy]

Forge, on 03 February 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:

serving God as a priest and becoming a god are two different things.
Mormons clearly believe they will become gods themselves, independent of God, if they prove themselves in this life and live up to the standards of Joseph Smith.

Used to be friends with a Mormon family and can confirm. (They moved away, still keep in touch with my buddy here and there.) They were really nice. I was welcome to their home at any time. We had big parties with junk food, sodas, Schwarzenegger movies, whatever we wanted except drugs, alcohol, and sex. I basically went over to their house every day in my last two years of high school to play Nazi Zombies. They never pushed religion on me, but put the offer on the table and said they'd answer any questions I had. I don't remember what the deal was about going to church with them because I never took them up on it, but I don't think it was allowed by the church itself anyway. You had to be Mormon if I remember right. If I stayed the weekend they'd just let me sleep in on Sunday and we'd basically do nothing all day (they're really strict about not working and shit on Sunday.) In my experience encountering them over time, they're pretty much all cool as fuck like this.

And like I've said, I can get behind white harems. I've never met any polygamist Mormons, but they always have HUGE families that tend to be pretty successful. For society they're definitely a net positive in my opinion.

Mennonites ("modern" Amish) are dicks though, fuck those people.

Radar 100 Watts, on 03 February 2020 - 08:51 PM, said:

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I do believe that the Bible is infallible and divinely authored. Just because people did bad things in the name of the Bible doesn't mean the Bible is flawed. Never judge a worldview by its abuse.

I'm judging a tool, partially, by it's capability to be abused. If it was infallible then there would be no way to misinterpret it. The ideas behind it are infallible, I'm strictly talking about the text here. An axe is a very useful tool that brought humanity to great heights, but it can also be a murder weapon. It's use as a tool is not infallible.

Radar 100 Watts, on 03 February 2020 - 08:51 PM, said:

Thanks man. It is so sad to hear that the attendance at your church is dying out. Low church attendance is a nation-wide epidemic right now. What you heard in that audio is what American churches sounded like 50 years ago. Every decent sized church used to have a sick brass band and a rocking choir to boot. Most churches lost their band/choir due to shrinking membership, and the remaining decent-sized ones replaced it all with pizza and guitars to try to appeal to youngsters, and people are still leaving.

It is what it is. I was never extremely active there myself, I mostly show up when they have events or when the lady and I have a Sunday off and can make the drive. I think they have about 20 regulars now, none of them below 45. Their Wednesday night Bible study is the most successful thing they do, because food is provided for free. My dad feels called to ride it out to the end, he inherited it (was previously just a deacon in the church, became ordained because he wanted to be a chaplain for Fraternal Order of Police and Veterans of Foreign Wars) because the previous pastor basically just gave up.

Radar 100 Watts, on 03 February 2020 - 08:51 PM, said:

Dude, God is not gonna like this.

He told me it's cool as long as I take care of myself and my responsibilities and don't do it too often.

[Forge]

Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit

have your fun, but don't do it in excess to where you have no idea what you're doing and have lost your senses

[Forge]

Jimmy, on 03 February 2020 - 08:57 PM, said:

If it was infallible then there would be no way to misinterpret it.

it isn't necessarily a 'good' or 'bad' either

sometimes there's just lack of definitive answers to be found in the text.
if it was infallible, then this wouldn't even be a debate:



Because of the nature of the unknown time of Christ's return, and the ambiguous characteristics of prophecy, there's a lot of room to have multiple interpretations.
God has a different purpose for everybody. Everybody is going to get their own message if they bother to tune in.
The key to it is to not add to or take away from what is already there.

[PokeThePower]

Radar 100 Watts, on 22 January 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

If everyone is "Israel" then nobody is.

Everybody is not Israel. Jesus made this distinction irrelevant. Only Judah needs the Israel brand today.

Radar 100 Watts, on 22 January 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

"Scam" or no scam, Israel is the best thing that ever happened to the middle-east. Insulting the entire state like that is indirectly shilling for Islam.

I am very pro-Judah. I think there are many positive benefits of a Judaic state.

Radar 100 Watts, on 22 January 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

According to you the message of the Bible is "Jews are bad mkay". I think you're reading the wrong book.

Tools. Don't confuse "bad" with "tools".

Radar 100 Watts, on 22 January 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

How do you know what God thinks based on no trustworthy record of His writings? Also, you might learn more if you attended a Bible study at an actual church.

PERFECT!

Give me the specific anglo english trustworthy record of his writings.

[Radar]

Fox, on 18 February 2020 - 12:11 AM, said:

Where it comes from is not my point

Programming is the language used by beings of limited power, who can only manipulate things to some extend, as opposed to making reality bend at your own will

Just because there are limited possibilities in reality doesn't mean there aren't unlimited possibilities outside of it.

[Outtagum]

[Jimmy]

Radar 100 Watts, on 18 February 2020 - 08:34 AM, said:

Just because there are limited possibilities...

We can't even be sure that's the case.

[PokeThePower]

Radar, I bought a bible many years ago but now that I'm into my 40's my eyes aren't handling the tiny text I used to love as well as they used to.

Which Bible should I buy, assuming I will buy a version that I can read?

[Radar]

Assuming this is a serious question, I'd honestly just recommend the good old NKJV. It was the first modern adaption of the KJV before all the copycats came out in the following decades. No English translation is perfect, but a lot of times mistakes are retained for documentative reasons. People read it one way for years so they keep them in so that there aren't a dozen versions of the "same translation". Serious Bible readers know where the inconsistencies are (Amos 7:1 being a classic disaster-area in nearly every English version). Typically, the older the translation is, the better its mistakes are documented, which is why I prefer the NKJV.

If you are just getting back into Bible reading, I would recommend a good commentary to go with it. As far as full Bible commentaries go, I personally like John MacArthur's Study Bible the most, even though there are some video series and single-book commentaries I prefer (Chuck Missler's video series and Dennis Prager's Torah commentary). John MacArthur is a Calvinist so I lay off that stuff when it comes to the NT, but he's a solid Neo-Protestant who believes in young-earth Creationism, traditional gender roles, illegitimacy of the Catholic church, etc. so he's not shy at all when it comes to defending the 3dgier topics of Christianity.

[PokeThePower]

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 February 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

Assuming this is a serious question...

100% serious question, 100% interested in your answer so muchos danke!

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 February 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

If you are just getting back into Bible reading...

No not really. My typical pattern when I'm reading beyond just quick lookup for a conversation is to read in this order... KJV, NKJV, ESV, NIV, NLT. Rarely goes beyond that as that covers a broad enough spectrum to get a sense of the various ways people are interpreting things. With greatest emphasis on KJV being least corrupted, NLT being deeply corrupted. It is sometimes just as informative to see what translations like the NLT are trying to *avoid* saying as much as it is to dig into the path the original writings took to reach the KJV translation.

Some of the guys in my work bible study group bring other translations out when we're going through certain verses which is helpful.

Radar 100 Watts, on 20 February 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

John MacArthur is a...

...blast.

[Radar]

Hey Wieder, I'm not sure where else to ask this so I'll just post this here. Do you know who made Library.map? It is known to have been made by Sunstorm Interactive. Also, the version on arrovfnukem.com has different weapons and inventory placement than the library.map that was passed down throughout the decades. I know somebody made some changes along the way (and didn't even bother to give it an alternate name), but I wonder which one is the original.

[Jimmy]

My bets are on Robert Travis.

[Forge]

Jimmy, on 27 February 2020 - 11:54 AM, said:

My bets are on Robert Travis.

maybe there was an exception to the rule, but RT watermarked most of his maps & most of the text templates specified him if he made it.

[Tea Monster]

[Forge]

how has this thread not been locked and tossed into the outhouse by now?
So off topic
and now fortified with memes and mockery

[Danukem]

Forge, on 07 March 2020 - 08:06 AM, said:

how has this thread not been locked and tossed into the outhouse by now?
So off topic
and now fortified with memes and mockery

Doesn't seem very off topic. It's still a "grand old party". And I don't recall "memes and mockery" necessarily being grounds for Outhousing. It has more to do with inappropriate content and flaming. Although admittedly, what counts as those things is somewhat subjective...

Anyway, let's think about what is likely to result from insisting on a consistent standard for what gets purged. Let's say that you and Radar and Blitz all make a big fuss about it for long enough that the site admins and the moderators are all convinced that it's important to have a consistent standard. Keep in mind that they will all be pretty annoyed by then. Do you think the consistent standard is one that you will like? I think you are better off putting up with some inconsistency and just shrugging it off.

[Forge]

I'm not done pointing out the hypocrisy and double-standards

[Forge]

Trooper Dan, on 07 March 2020 - 09:27 AM, said:

It has more to do with inappropriate content and flaming.

also wildly inaccurate. Off topic, regardless of content, was removed by a moderator. His own admission.
He was intentionally targeting certain people.
That's an abuse of position.

[Danukem]

Forge, on 07 March 2020 - 09:34 AM, said:

also wildly inaccurate. Off topic, regardless of content, was removed by a moderator. His own admission.
He was intentionally targeting certain people.
That's an abuse of position.

It's okay, Forge, we have settled with his victims out of court, and he's undergoing re-education. Let us know if anyone needs counseling to help with the trauma of having their discussion moved to a different thread in a bad neighborhood.