[Danukem]

Radar 100 Watts, on 08 January 2020 - 03:14 PM, said:

It's not that I'm cynical. It's that imo the most dogmatic people I know are those who claim to be "objective". Also those who claim to be "centrists". Drives me up a wall. You can tell if someone actually cares about learning something.

It could be that you are talking about older people, like your parents.

As one gets older, it gets harder to push the needle in a new direction. The accumulation of experiences and thinking over many years creates a great burden of evidence (or what seems like evidence) that needs to be overcome for the mind to change.

When I was younger, I was less "moderate". For example, I believed more in the invisible hand of the free market and its ability to fix imbalances. As I've aged, I'm still for economic freedom, but I'm more open to significant regulation and intervention. However, I would not say that I'm less dogmatic than before. In fact, I'm probably more dogmatic. That makes sense, because my idealistic embrace of unfettered capitalism when I was 20 was based on far less information about the world than I have now. With more information, I've become more "moderate" or "centrist" but my position has also stabilized and is harder to shift.

[Hank]

Forge, on 08 January 2020 - 02:42 PM, said:

this is part of the process of having it too easy for too long. People aren't challenged and have no goals. They become mentally lazy and want big brother to baby sit them and their children. Governments get fat and send people to jail for teaching their dog to do a roman salute.

soylant green is made out of people

Living free and acting in self determination was and is hard. It just happens that living as a slave for the upper crust is harder for some.
Soylent Green? I still don't get this. Yes, some people look tasty, but, the movie does not show this. It falls inline with government hoaxes, in this case over population. Thus, my counter movie is Inferno.

[Forge]

Hank, on 08 January 2020 - 05:06 PM, said:

Living free and acting in self determination was and is hard. It just happens that living as a slave for the upper crust is harder for some.
Soylent Green? I still don't get this. Yes, some people look tasty, but, the movie does not show this. It falls inline with government hoaxes, in this case over population. Thus, my counter movie is Inferno.

the masses are distracted by bread and circuses, or twitter likes and facebook walls. Even those poor wage slaves working for minimum pennies have more free time to waste of frivlity than our forefathers did just a couple generations ago. Instead of worrying about survival and raising a family, they're worried about how many kills they get on their favorite online game & if the abortion clinic is open on sundays. They don't appreciate what they have because they did nothing to earn it, so they give it away with hardly a struggle. Big brother knows what's best.

father forgive them for they know not what they do

[dukefan4evah02]

Forge, on 08 January 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

"Did Sid Blumenthal really push birtherism?
He says no, but he did urge journalists to look into Barack Obama's ties to Kenya back in 2008."

"Clinton’s former campaign manager, Patty Solis Doyle, told CNN on Friday that she fired a volunteer coordinator in Iowa who had forwarded a birther-esque email"

yup. those pesky "volunteers" are to blame, not sure how that email escaped the bleach treatment though

IF that did happen, what makes you think I'm an advocate of it. Birtherism is plain ol' wrong and almost, if not 100% of the time stems from racism(I'm sure you'll have a cow about that statement, too). Obama was born in Hawaii. He is a Christian. That is a proven fact. It would be more convenient for you if he were a Muslim, yes. But sadly(for you), he's not. I guess McCain really is a liberal Democrat, then. Nothing of substance points to him being a Muslim. Wow...he wore a turban once. Let's take pictures of every President and politician visiting the Western Wall donning(pun intended) a skullcap and claim that they're Jews!

Also it's funny how you show two tweets which happen to support your narrative at face value. But all of the legit news sources and unbiased investigations tell a different story. That's the essence of being a conspiracy theorist and why pretty much every conspiracy falls apart when a logical, clear, and healthy mind inspects it. You dismiss every individual and entity counteracting your set of notions as fallacious and malicious, when there's not one shred of factual information to suggest they are mistaken or intentional liars. The only thing you can come up with - in so many words - is: "They're just a bunch of blind, rabid liberals". Wikipedia can be edited by anyone? True. Good thing every tweet that goes out needs to be fact-checked by God. Wikipedia has some sanctions in place to prevent fake news; oh, lemme guess - they only employ those foaming-at-the-mouth lefties to help control and manipulate public opinion. It must suck for you when you think almost everyone is against you because they're crazy. Nice to see you've found a cute little safe haven here.

[Mark]

dukefan said: "Birtherism is plain ol' wrong and almost, if not 100% of the time stems from racism(I'm sure you'll have a cow about that statement, too). Obama was born in Hawaii. He is a Christian. That is a proven fact."

Darn, I got triggered into responding. It seems you are projecting again. I can only speak for myself and those I've talked to that share my opinion on the subject. It has zero to do with racism. We did not like the politician and his policies. So people looked for a legal way to disqualify him for the office. Many of the conservative talking heads say the same. ( the ones not running for re-election )

With all the evidence contained in the conspiracy side of the issue, at best I'll call his American citizenship accepted not proven. There is way too much to get into concerning Birtherism so I'll start simple. What is your opinion of why Photoshop edited certificates were released instead of simply photocopying the originals? This IS a proven fact. Debunkers have chipped away at little bits of the argument but could not completely refute it.

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 05:28 AM, said:

what makes you think I'm an advocate of it.

the point of the post was that the birther movement was given its wings by the h clinton campaign regardless of which liar is lying, but it wasn't 'racist' until somebody from the other political party took up the banner (mccain).

also, from one of your prefered refences, the atlantic: (2008, before the division turned into the grand canyon & a lot closer to the time & origin of the source)
https://www.theatlan...-19-2008/37952/

allegedly Sid took the context of the memo to asher & asked him to use his resources to look into it.
The meetings are documented and took place. What was discussed wasn't recorded.
in the he-said-she-said world, i'd probably side with the asher, since he's not defending himself or anybody else's reputation. He has nothing to gain or lose from it. My opinion.

as for your politico article. interesting read coming from a never-trumper that is still fully invested in the russia-collusion conspiracy theory



also
The world doesn't revolve around your feelz. never claimed you advocated/disavowed the birther movement. You took that mantle up all on your own.

this is simply a public service courtesy note to inform you of the nuance of people posting in a general forum

[dukefan4evah02]

Forge, on 09 January 2020 - 08:15 AM, said:

the point of the post was that the birther movement was started by the h clinton campaign regardless of which liar is lying, but it wasn't 'racist' until somebody from the other political party took up the banner.

So you're playing guilt by association? One idiot who happened to be a tangential part of the Clinton campaign was alleged to have said something that was dumb? If from its conception(as you claim), there were so many legit doubts then why didn't Hillary end up making that a focal point of her primaries run in '08? Obama would've disqualified based on FACTS, and she would've won the nomination.

So if Trump's incessant birther movement craze can be blamed on some small-time Clinton staffer, then I guess Trump and co. are really the biggest sheeple ever who can't think for themselves or differentiate fact from fiction if their lives depend on it.

Your explanation that, "It's not racist...the Clinton camp just happened upon it, let it drop completely and then Trump and his cronies REALLY got it right, but for some reason nobody really took them seriously and still don't to this day" is such fantastical mindset to behold.

Quote

also
The world doesn't revolve around your feelz.

I'm not citing feelings. Well, if my feelings are that Trump is shite...I'm backing that up with facts. Your feelings are that I'm wrong. You're backing it with what half-truths, conjectures, drawn inferences, and radical assumptions.

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also, from one of your prefered refences, the atlantic: (2008, before the division turned into the grand canyon & a lot closer to the time & origin of the source)
https://www.theatlan...-19-2008/37952/

allegedly Sid took the context of the memo to asher & asked him to use his resources to look into it.
in the he-said-she-said world, i'd probably side with the asher, since he's not defending himself or anybody else's reputation. He has nothing to gain or lose from it. My opinion.

Okay, but like you said: If there were a modicum of veracity behind the birther movement, nobody would have anything to hide or be ashamed of. The facts would speak for themselves. The whole conspiracy theory spin that almost the entire global population is just 'brainwashed' into cucking for a few evil elitists and those who buy into their lies are beyond redemption except for the few who come around(never mind those who shelve their tinfoil hats when they reach the revelation of who absurd the whole thing is)...it's just pure, unabridged deflection to convinced everyone they can(including themselves) that almost everybody else are the crazy ones.

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as for your politico article. intersting read coming from a never-trumper that is still fully invested in the russia-collusion conspiracy theory

Of course...that's the conspiracy theory! But we're not talking about a "he-said-she-said world" as you described above. We're talking about Trump's own words and actions in their fullest of contexts. I guess Trump is involved in the conspiracy against himself, then - eh?

Fix'd:

Quote

this is simply a public service courtesy note to inform you of the nuisance of people posting in a general forum

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:

One idiot who happened to be a tangential part of the Clinton campaign was alleged to have said something that was dumb?

this, and that's the point where i stopped. i never claimed the birther movement was true or false. just pontified on the origins & how it's weaponized by a certain political party

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:

So if Trump's incessant birther movement craze can be blamed on some small-time Clinton staffer, then I guess Trump and co. are really the biggest sheeple ever who can't think for themselves or differentiate fact from fiction if their lives depend on it.

McCain. Then Trump. and tinfoil hats are involved by all parties. Even though Trump later disavowed it and publicly stated that Obama was born in the us.
(apparently, by your standards, everyone is allowed to recant mistakes, except drumph)

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:

Your explanation that, "It's not racist...the Clinton camp just happened upon it, let it drop completely and then Trump and his cronies

racist is ambiguous
a person with a certain level of melanin pigment can use certain words and it's not racist, but other people with different levels can't.

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:

I'm not citing feelings. Well, if my feelings are that Trump is shite...I'm backing that up with facts. Your feelings are that I'm wrong.

I never said trump was good or shite, just that i like and dislike some of his policies & eventually he'll leave office.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you have yet to provide anything 'factual' to back up your claims.

your feelings are that you think every post someone makes is catered to be directed at you. 'fraid not (even though it's obvious that you seek attention, good or bad)
you assign strawman positions to eveyone you feel you are in conflict with, even if they made general posts directed at no one & without stating a specific 'side'
that's why I don't include you in my mailing list

[Forge]

[Danukem]

Forge, you're going to make his fingers tired from all the typing he has to do now.

[Forge]

it's amusing

I don't have to do anything, he outrages himself

[Mark]

I'm a Ham Radio operator and I just smiled and shook my head when listening to a guy this morning with Trump Derangement Syndrome. He was going on and on about how he believes everything from the Steele Dossier including the hooker's peeing on the bed story and many of the fake news reports that were later removed or recanted by the original sources or disproved by multiple investigations. His list of horrible things he thinks Trump has done was comical and sad at the same time. He drank so much of the kool-aid it was bubbling out of his mouth as he talked. The other guys in the conversation ridiculed him as they should. Answer absurdity with absurdity.

[Forge]

those dang 'stern white military men' and that not-my-president orange man. How dare they deflect war between iran & the us. Don't they know how good a large death toll is for our ratings?

[Hank]

Forge, on 08 January 2020 - 07:31 PM, said:

the masses are distracted by bread and circuses, or twitter likes and facebook walls. Even those poor wage slaves working for minimum pennies have more free time to waste of frivlity than our forefathers did just a couple generations ago. Instead of worrying about survival and raising a family, they're worried about how many kills they get on their favorite online game & if the abortion clinic is open on sundays. They don't appreciate what they have because they did nothing to earn it, so they give it away with hardly a struggle. Big brother knows what's best.

father forgive them for they know not what they do

Was that not what Jesus said while being crucified?

Yes, the standard of living has improved. In the past, an upswing of leisure time brought thought and fine art. I don't see this. I see the reverse. Unless you see art in this below.



I'm not arguing your point; I simply don't understand this trend. Yes, Big Brother and Big Business want a lethargic population, but why they comply is beyond me.

[Danukem]

Hank, on 09 January 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:

Yes, the standard of living has improved. In the past, an upswing of leisure time brought thought and fine art.

Also, billiards and gambling on horse races.

The average Joe isn't likely to suddenly take up oil painting or write a philosophical treatise, then or now. Still, I think there is a point to be made here. I've noticed that the distractions we have now, like some of the incredible games out there, or going to catch a lot of the people who in previous generations would have gotten bored with their free time and started creating something of lasting value.

[Kyanos]

So was that a plane full of NATO spies in Iran killed on the way out or the faked death of Iran's spies in NA? Hmmm, really tickles the almonds.

inb4 accident


also @ duke4evah >>>/leftypol/

[Mark]

Photonic. I think they let it happen because while they continue to follow a path of what we would call frivilous or just plain stupid, they are being praised by their non-judgemental peers. I'll bet the artist for the banana taped to the wall has a whole dissertation on how it represents man's innate desire to ....fill in the blank. They feel socially relevant now with that pat on the back and a gold star.

[dukefan4evah02]

Forge, on 09 January 2020 - 09:25 AM, said:

this, and that's the point where i stopped. i never claimed the birther movement was true or false. just pontified on the origins & how it's weaponized by a certain political party


McCain. Then Trump. and tinfoil hats are involved by all parties. Even though Trump later disavowed it and publicly stated that Obama was born in the us.
(apparently, by your standards, everyone is allowed to recant mistakes, except drumph)

He did when Obama's birth certificate was finally made public, and his position thus became untenable. But some other guy was saying that it was Photoshopped as a FACT. Do you agree with that?

Quote

racist is ambiguous
a person with a certain level of melanin pigment can use certain words and it's not racist, but other people with different levels can't.

Okay, so as not to fall into your little trap again...relevance, por favor?

Quote

I never said trump was good or shite, just that i like and dislike some of his policies & eventually he'll leave office.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you have yet to provide anything 'factual' to back up your claims.

I gave a number of links and you just scoffed at them being unreliable.

Quote

your feelings are that you think every post someone makes is catered to be directed at you. 'fraid not (even though it's obvious that you seek attention, good or bad)
you assign strawman positions to eveyone you feel you are in conflict with, even if they made general posts directed at no one & without stating a specific 'side'
that's why I don't include you in my mailing list

I already addressed this. Rather than give a cogent response you're simply sticking to your guns and reiterating without giving specific examples or citations. Your innocent, "Who, me?" routine is wearing pretty thin.

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it's amusing

Agreed.

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I don't have to do anything,

Yet you've spent more of your life on this thread than me, even after I began participating. You must love wasting time. I guess you'll prove me correct by never replying to me again.

But wait- "have to do anything" strongly implies that there is some intended endgame to this. It was established that I was beyond redemption and unwilling to change. So what the purpose of your engagement in this?

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he outrages himself

And how is that not projecting....?

[Forge]

Photonic, on 09 January 2020 - 01:04 PM, said:

So was that a plane full of NATO spies in Iran killed on the way out or the faked death of Iran's spies in NA? Hmmm, really tickles the almonds.

Ukraine spies. Russia shot it down.

[dukefan4evah02]

Forge, on 09 January 2020 - 11:05 AM, said:

those dang 'stern white military men' and that not-my-president orange man. How dare they deflect war between iran & the us. Don't they know how good a large death toll is for our ratings?

In your mind, was the war in Iraq justified?

Just wonderin'.

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 03:01 PM, said:

In your mind, was the war in Iraq justified?

nope.
neither was Vietnam, nor the Spanish American war.

hindsight is 20/20

[Danukem]

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 02:59 PM, said:

You must love wasting time.

It's just entertainment for him. It's not the best use of time, sure, but it's no worse than watching a TV show that gives you a few chuckles.

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 02:59 PM, said:

But wait- "have to do anything" strongly implies that there is some intended endgame to this. It was established that I was beyond redemption and unwilling to change. So what the purpose of your engagement in this?

I just answered that for you on Forge's behalf.

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 02:59 PM, said:

And how is that not projecting....?

I know Forge pretty well and I can assure you he is not outraged. He's just having a little fun. I doubt his pulse rate is above resting.

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 09 January 2020 - 09:01 AM, said:

If from its conception(as you claim), there were so many legit doubts then why didn't Hillary end up making that a focal point of her primaries run in '08? Obama would've disqualified based on FACTS, and she would've won the nomination.

now apply your own logic to trump being such a raving racist.

if it was such an undeniable fact then the only way he could get elected president is if just about every bit of territory between the coastal states is inhabited by a bunch of deplorable racists.
not likely.

[Kyanos]

Forge, on 09 January 2020 - 02:59 PM, said:

Ukraine spies. Russia shot it down.

Aces and Eights. Dead mans hand.

[Radar]

Vietnam was justified. We just simply lost. You can thank our traitorous media and cultural figures of the time for that. Sowing seeds of self hate in the minds of Americans. We would have lost WW2 with that kind of coverage.

Iraq was also justified. The problem is that Obummer pulled out troops before the country was developed. Thanks Obama for creating ISIS.

[Danukem]

Being justified is not the same as being a good idea. If a man with a gun wants my money, I am justified in fighting back with my fists. But I would be a fool to do so.

[Forge]

Gulf of Tonkin incident

----

Saddam possessed 500 metric tons of yellow cake uranium (which was removed after the war and sent to Canada) & Saddam refused to let in UN inspectors for around 5 years, but he had no means to spin it.
He brought it on himself, but the intelligence failed to verify their assumptions.
Mostly the Iraq invasion was just a regime leader coup.

[Radar]

Well I support regime change.

[Forge]

so does pelosi
similarly, she lacks proper evidence vetting as well

[Radar]

I personally just find the whole "War is bad mkay. Our troops should have stayed home since 1945." to be fairly shortsighted and lazy reasoning. Millions of lives were saved because of US intervention in Korea, Chile, pre-revolution Iran, etc. People also have the tendency to view a war as "unjustified" just because we lost, instead of looking at the full context of the millions of lives we were trying to save. Ironically enough, this is something you'd think the left would understand better due to their self-less empathy for the plight of others, but they're even more anti-war as a consequence of their fascination with communism and authoritarianism. According to the left, atrocities only occur within America's borders. But other countries just have their own cUlTuRe. Don't you know Soleimani was an austere religious scholar? Clown world, man.

And btw, regarding the Gulf of Tonkin incident, nobody is saying atrocities aren't a component of war. The difference is, atrocities at home aren't the only ones worth fighting for.