[Hendricks266]

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 03:36 PM, said:

Trump's foreign policy needs work
stop listening to those shitty mccain-clinton styled neocons & get the hell out of syria & the middle-east. Fuck china & russia, they want the headache so bad, let them have it.

[Mark]

We had the misfortune of witnessing how the Obama administration handled the green energy sector. Millions going to cronies and campaign contributors to start companies. Special deals made to those friends that protected them first and foremost when those companies went belly up. The icing on the cake is something that bothers me no matter what the political party or business. If you receive federal handouts/subsidies, you should not allowed to contribute to a candidate's campaign or be very limited. Its a form of money laundering. I'm resisting the urge to break into a Unions rant.

[Forge]

Mark, on 06 January 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

We had the misfortune of witnessing how the Obama administration handled the green energy sector.

that was a load of cronie capitalist fleecing the taxpayers.
A businessman would probably do better of it, but scrapping it completely wasn't the best option in the long run.

[Radar]

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 03:36 PM, said:

Trump's tax policy is okay, but there are some issues.
The pyramid seems inverse. The bottom 80% only get a 1.7% tax cut, while the top 20% get a 3.2% tax cut & the top 1% get a 6.5% tax cut.
something is better than nothing, but the 80% are what drive the economy, so they should get the higher %. (the top % usually re-invest it into their business, so it's not all bad).

Keep in mind America already implements a fiercely progressive tax system, so a greater cut at the top is required if a flat tax is your kind of thing.

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 03:36 PM, said:

the potential pitfall is an accelerated national debt since there was an increase in govt spending instead of a decrees to match the reduction in tax intake.

Tax revenue always increases despite tax cuts. What's needed is a reduction in spending regardless of the tax rate.

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 03:36 PM, said:

Trumps' environmental policy is mostly bad.
removing the requirement for power companies to reduce emissions by 32% by 2030 is good for the industrial and energy complex, but there still should be emphasis on finding alternate cleaner energy.
I'm no tree-hugger, but:
it reduces the quality of air and water
it puts off innovation in those green energy fields. The US should be leading the way - so we make the money off of it instead of letting some EU dictator set the standard.

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 03:36 PM, said:

Trump's foreign policy needs work
stop listening to those shitty mccain-clinton styled neocons & get the hell out of syria & the middle-east. Fuck china & russia, they want the headache so bad, let them have it.

Nah. Knowing China and Russia are seeking ways to expand is exactly why you need American presence there.

[Forge]

flat tax is a unicorn. Like I posted - a larger tax cut at the bottom creates more flow of cash at the street level of the economy. More cuts at the top get it re-invested into the businesses that create the economy.
Taxes are unconstitutional, but necessary for militias and infrastructure.

wasn't about tree-hugging as much as it was about cornering the market on green technology. I don't believe the evil Co2 monster is hiding under my bed waiting to jump out and rape me, but there's nothing wrong with actually developing and advancing clean(er) energy.

a reduction in government spending that matches the reduction in tax intake; basically cut some of the fat off the bloated government & let the state government do the job it's supposed to do (which, as far as my state is concerned, is doing things like actually managing the economy and affairs of washington state instead of sucking pelosi's dick).

The middle east is england and france's fucking post WWI problem - they broke it, they should be stuck fixing it.

Your points are valid, but I see the solutions differently.

[PokeThePower]

dukefan4evah02, on 06 January 2020 - 01:49 PM, said:

racism

That antiquated religion is dying faster than Methodists can find lesbian transgender priests impregnated by female sperm to give sermons on how the story of Christ on the cross was really a metaphor for menstruation .

[Forge]

OccludeOlga, on 06 January 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

That antiquated religion is dying faster than Methodists can find lesbian transgender priests impregnated by female sperm to give sermons on how the story of Christ on the cross was really a metaphor for menstruation .

it's the circle of ceiling wieders

[dukefan4evah02]

OccludeOlga, on 06 January 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

That antiquated religion is dying faster than Methodists can find lesbian transgender priests impregnated by female sperm to give sermons on how the story of Christ on the cross was really a metaphor for menstruation .

/Racism is a rapidly dying epidemic, it's barely even a problem anymore
/Racism against us whites is the worst problem ever and is only metastasizing by the hour
/All of those who call us racist are the actual racists because they call us racist so they must hate us because we're white even though most of them are too, but it's horrible because there are so many of these bad bad racists abound




God Bless the GOP!

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 05:57 AM, said:

Racism
Racism
racist racists racist racists

*calls drumph and everyone that supports him (or isn't overly offended by him) a racist - several times
*calls everyone on this website that disagrees with his viewpoint a drumph supporter - therefore they are also racists
*refuses to provide any evidence to support claims, but denies projecting

bravo
psychological tactics of a five year old are still tactics

[PokeThePower]

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 05:57 AM, said:

/Racism
/Racism
/All

No, you have it 100% inverted. I don't care if you call me a racist. It means nothing anymore. I don't care if Dems are the Real Racists or not. Generally when they are accidentally being "racist" (even though all they are is being accurate) they accidentally wind up helping the people they say they want to help more than when they bend over backwards and shove BBC (not the British TV) dildos up their anus to prove how they aren't racist.

European whites are a global minority.

European whites have demonstrably been the least racist demographic on the planet throughout history and have consistently committed self harm individually and collectively to try to bring about more egalitarian conditions, more than any other demographic on the planet strives for. This pattern had accelerated though there is FINALLY some survival instinct resistance kicking in.

Demographics have distinct personalities (individuals within the demographic can vary wildly). Noticing there are both collective and individual personalities (which everyone notices, some just lie that they don't) is called racist.

Trying to approach the friction caused by Blacks and Jews in New York from both an individual AND a demographic personality problem is called white supremacy.

[dukefan4evah02]

Forge, on 07 January 2020 - 07:28 AM, said:

*calls drumph and everyone that supports him (or isn't overly offended by him) a racist - several times
*calls everyone on this website that disagrees with his viewpoint a drumph supporter - therefore they are also racists
*refuses to provide any evidence to support claims, but denies projecting

If we like to talk about citations and references, please provide the quotes from me to bolster each one of your claims about me. It's all too easy to use your own rampant misconceptions to fill in the blanks as you go along. I never espoused any of those things, so why don't you give me my own quotes and use them against me instead of just editorializing?

Quote

bravo
psychological tactics of a five year old are still tactics

Yup...misquoting someone, putting words in their mouth, and then congratulating yourself on a job well done by playing amateur psychoanalyst aren't at all juvenile. Cash me outside when you can rise to the simple inquiry I posed about where I even insinuated any of those talking points. In fact, I went as far as to say that I didn't believe you were a racist or that all Trump fans were racist and that I condemn and disavow anyone who generalizes like that. That's what you do. I believe you are sloppy, ignorant, and ill-informed...but not necessarily racist.

[Forge]

OccludeOlga, on 07 January 2020 - 08:31 AM, said:

Trying to approach the friction caused by Blacks and Jews in New York from both an individual AND a demographic personality problem is called white supremacy.

*not sure who to project my soft bigotry of low expectations upon in that scenario. Both would be the safe thing to do.

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 06 January 2020 - 01:49 PM, said:

I'll bring my summation of Trump's racism later

citation needed

[PokeThePower]

Forge, on 07 January 2020 - 08:48 AM, said:

*not sure who to project my soft bigotry of low expectations upon in that scenario. Both would be the safe thing to do.

Meme warfare.

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 06 January 2020 - 10:55 AM, said:

Trump is a racist and large number of racists support him. Those are well-established facts which you seem rather uncomfortable with.

citation needed

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 06 January 2020 - 11:48 AM, said:

You make a good Trump supporter, that's for sure. See something that doesn't jive with your preconceived notions of the way things are and then proceed to profile whilst implementing rash extrapolations that don't hold any water in the least.

citation needed

[dukefan4evah02]

OccludeOlga, on 07 January 2020 - 08:31 AM, said:

No, you have it 100% inverted. I don't care if you call me a racist. It means nothing anymore. I don't care if Dems are the Real Racists or not. Generally when they are accidentally being "racist" (even though all they are is being accurate) they accidentally wind up helping the people they say they want to help more than when they bend over backwards and shove BBC (not the British TV) dildos up their anus to prove how they aren't racist.

Give some examples rather than just speaking in such broad descriptors. All I know is that Gavin McInnes inserted a dildo into his rectum on a livestream to "prove" he was LGBT friendly. Doesn't matter what his rhetoric ever was, I guess he made his critics feel like fucking idiots. Do you believe McAnus to homophobic? Just a simple question. If not, why?

Quote

European whites are a global minority.

Global? That's funny...didn't know the GOP extended beyond the US boarders. Guess I learn something new everyday. Sure, globally Whites or European descent are a minority since globally includes all of Asia.

Quote

European whites have demonstrably

Then demonstrate it.

Quote

been the least racist demographic on the planet throughout history and have consistently committed self harm individually and collectively to try to bring about more egalitarian conditions, more than any other demographic on the planet strives for.

How so? If you just wanna go into Western values, Caucasians built every brick at this University, etc, etc...go Steve King elsewhere. Show me that European Whites are superior(because that's essentially code for what you're preaching), and we can have a real discussion. Echoing David Duke isn't.

Quote

This pattern had accelerated though there is FINALLY some survival instinct resistance kicking in.

By what? Shooting up mosques and synagogues? Nice fearmongering...if you wanna marry White, be my guest. I guess the myth of diversity being benevolent is just a leftist fable.

Quote

Demographics have distinct personalities (individuals within the demographic can vary wildly). Noticing there are both collective and individual personalities (which everyone notices, some just lie that they don't) is called racist.

That can literally be explained by the oppression they've faced. Scientifically, African-Americans are proven to be just as intelligent and intellectually capable as Whites. However, their grades appear to tell a different story. A racist would prematurely conclude that it's because Blacks are dumb. A non-racist would understand and appreciate actual history instead of ill-conceived hypotheses.

Quote

Trying to approach the friction caused by Blacks and Jews in New York from both an individual AND a demographic personality problem is called white supremacy.

Yes...they've got inherent traits that cause them to [insert stereotype here] - nothing to do with any of the bigotry they've faced! Man, didn't seem I was that far off with the David Duke quip after all. And I was just being facetious back then.

But seriously - you need to expound on that last little observation of yours, unless you're too ashamed and/or afraid of being judged for your opinions. I'd love for your to give me some links, to boot. Educate me with some good reading materials! Can only image what websites I'll be seeing.

Off topic: Each time I click the "plus/minus one" buttons, it tells me I've reached my daily quota. What gives?

[Aristotle Gumball]

dukefan4evah02 - check your private messages.

[Forge]

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

I'd love for your to give me some links, to boot. Educate me with some good reading materials! Can only image what websites I'll be seeing.

*demands citations, but refuses to give any to support their view points
*also wonders why they are getting mocked

-still waiting for the links to buzzfeed and vox articles

not questioning your intelligence, but it's my opinion that you are being disingenuous. Manipulating people to support their opinions while refusing to back up extreme claims of your own is not a proper way to have a discussion or reach any sort of 'common ground'.
afraid i'll have to disengage from your delightfull baiting because the circle has been lapped a few times

[dukefan4evah02]

Okay, enough fun and games. Here's your dosage of "fake news".

Can't wait for the rebuttals!

https://en.wikipedia...of_Donald_Trump

https://www.brooking...o-the-data-say/

https://www.huffpost...4b09071f69b9261

https://www.theatlan...omments/588067/

Oh, and just to appease Forge:
https://www.vox.com/...-racism-history

Since you've got burning hatred for vox, why don't you be so kind as to fill me in on why it's not reputable? How about we focus on the contents of that particular article instead of just tossing around blanket statements of "insufferable liberal propaganda"? Did they take anything out of context? Flat-out fib? Doesn't it suck when the vast majority of the population doesn't see things your way? All of us poor, pathetic sheeple....clamp those tinfoil helmets to your scalps; wouldn't wanna interfere with your fringe politics!

And with that, the ball is officially yours.

[PokeThePower]

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

Give some examples rather than just speaking in such broad descriptors. All I know is that Gavin McInnes inserted a dildo into his rectum on a livestream to "prove" he was LGBT friendly. Doesn't matter what his rhetoric ever was, I guess he made his critics feel like fucking idiots. Do you believe McAnus to homophobic? Just a simple question. If not, why?

McAnus is a fag.
https://areomagazine...of-scholarship/

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

Global? That's funny...didn't know the GOP extended beyond the US boarders. Guess I learn something new everyday. Sure, globally Whites or European descent are a minority since globally includes all of Asia.

And Africa. Which... remember the demographics of the European nations when they almost universally fell in love with and supported this message. How'd that turn out?


Oh hey, how's that melting pot going in Asia, btw? Or India? Or Zimbabwe? Or South Afrika? Or... ANYWHERE BUT EUROPEAN CULTURES.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

Then demonstrate it.

The clear demographic destruction of historically European nations without violence that can touch Chicago's black on black, much less national black on black violence rates in reaction.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

By what? Shooting up mosques and synagogues? Nice fearmongering...

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

That can literally be explained by the oppression they've faced. Scientifically, African-Americans are proven to be just as intelligent and intellectually capable as Whites. However, their grades appear to tell a different story. A racist would prematurely conclude that it's because Blacks are dumb. A non-racist would understand and appreciate actual history instead of ill-conceived hypotheses.

And yet it's poor white boys who are falling behind the hardest and scoring the lowest in the UK. All while a fantastically rich black man can create a blacks only scholarship.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

...unless you're too ashamed and/or afraid of being judged for your opinions.

You don't understand. We've had MANY MANY of you before. You're gonna get rhetoric and you're gonna like it. Ain't nobody got time to catch you up. You won't care anyways.

If you take one thing away from this conversation know this: Almost everyone you are disagreeing with once believed as you did. Therefore only one side of this conversation actually understands both points of view.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

Off topic: Each time I click the "plus/minus one" buttons, it tells me I've reached my daily quota. What gives?

You've reached your daily quota.

[Forge]

wiki can be edited by any usefull idiot - unreliable
brooking, huffpost, antlantian are all extreme left leaning and are merely editorializing without actually providing any evidence. Trump's racist because we say so. There was a case back in the 70's that was settled out of court, so that's proof enough. Mah feelz are more important than factz!

here's a snippet from vox

"calling Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists to proposing a ban on all Muslims entering the US"

again he was specifically talking about ms-13, but progressive tabloids keep spinning it that he was talking about ALL immigrants.
the muslim ban was the exact same one that Obama had in place. It included all the countries that were known to support terrorist groups (including non-muslim countries). Not all muslim majority countries were on the no-entry list. Egypt, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.

They (the tabloids you refered to as subject matter authorities) point blank lie.
They use the same tactics as those old grocery store tabloids - alarmist & scare tactics headlines to generate clicks - which translates into ad revenue.

thanks for trying. At least you knew beforehand that what you were posting was disingenuous and that it was nothing but smoke and mirrors

[Radar]

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 08:08 PM, said:

a reduction in government spending that matches the reduction in tax intake; basically cut some of the fat off the bloated government & let the state government do the job it's supposed to do (which, as far as my state is concerned, is doing things like actually managing the economy and affairs of washington state instead of sucking pelosi's dick).

My point was, even in the face of tax cuts, the government can still increase spending due to increases in tax revenue. The problem is that the increase is astronomical, not that it exists.

Forge, on 06 January 2020 - 08:08 PM, said:

The middle east is england and france's fucking post WWI problem - they broke it, they should be stuck fixing it.

Europe is an incompetent sh*thole. Remember they needed Uncle Sam's help in order to end two World Wars.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 05:57 AM, said:

/Racism is a rapidly dying epidemic, it's barely even a problem anymore
/Racism against us whites is the worst problem ever and is only metastasizing by the hour
/All of those who call us racist are the actual racists because they call us racist so they must hate us because we're white even though most of them are too, but it's horrible because there are so many of these bad bad racists abound




God Bless the GOP!

Imagine living in a country that's so racist you can't get anyone to assault a black man unless you pay them.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

By what? Shooting up mosques and synagogues? Nice fearmongering...if you wanna marry White, be my guest. I guess the myth of diversity being benevolent is just a leftist fable.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

That can literally be explained by the oppression they've faced. Scientifically, African-Americans are proven to be just as intelligent and intellectually capable as Whites. However, their grades appear to tell a different story. A racist would prematurely conclude that it's because Blacks are dumb. A non-racist would understand and appreciate actual history instead of ill-conceived hypotheses.

Nah, it's because speaking proper and graduating high school among blacks is considered "acting white". Gotta stikk it to da wyte beast. I actually live in greater Detroit. When my family was poor we lived in the inner city. I have older siblings who saw degenerate black culture first hand. You wouldn't get it because you're too white.

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

Yes...they've got inherent traits that cause them to [insert stereotype here] - nothing to do with any of the bigotry they've faced! Man, didn't seem I was that far off with the David Duke quip after all. And I was just being facetious back then.

David Duke has been quite fond of brown people lately.

thricecursed, on 07 January 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

dukefan4evah02 - check your private messages.

Still sending dick pics?

dukefan4evah02, on 07 January 2020 - 10:02 AM, said:

Since you've got burning hatred for vox, why don't you be so kind as to fill me in on why it's not reputable? How about we focus on the contents of that particular article instead of just tossing around blanket statements of "insufferable liberal propaganda"? Did they take anything out of context? Flat-out fib? Doesn't it suck when the vast majority of the population doesn't see things your way? All of us poor, pathetic sheeple....clamp those tinfoil helmets to your scalps; wouldn't wanna interfere with your fringe politics!

I prefer not being affiliated with publications that endorse cuckolding.

[Hank]

OccludeOlga, on 07 January 2020 - 10:08 AM, said:

... get rhetoric ...

OK (yes, quoted you way out of context )
[Rhetorical]
Why would anyone want to hang out in a gang land area? Why would anyone hang out in a [religious, any] neighborhood who openly pray for one’s death? Why would anyone go into an Italian Restaurant asking for a Won Ton Soup? Why would anyone ask for a donation from a beggar on the street?
Proud racist here, who has kept at least that much sanity amid the politically correct madness.
[/Rhetorical]

[Forge]

Radar 100 Watts, on 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

My point was, even in the face of tax cuts, the government can still increase spending due to increases in tax revenue. The problem is that the increase is astronomical, not that it exists.

I grok.
i wasn't trying to imply that the spending should be cut in response to reduced tax intake.
i was suggesting something I feel is better. Reduce government spending at the same rate as tax reduction.
Cut the fat for a leaner, trimmmer, healthier government.
Reducing tax intake AND increasing government spending over natural growth is not wise.

Radar 100 Watts, on 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Europe is an incompetent sh*thole. Remember they needed Uncle Sam's help in order to end two World Wars.

irrelevant. Time for them to put on their big-boy pants and clean up the juice they spilled.

[Radar]

LMAO. Europe can't even keep its own sh*t together without the help of US backed NATO.

[Danukem]

Radar 100 Watts, on 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Europe is an incompetent sh*thole. Remember they needed Uncle Sam's help in order to end two World Wars.

The Germans and Italians didn't need our help, though. I mean, let's be fair.

Radar 100 Watts, on 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Imagine living in a country that's so racist you can't get anyone to assault a black man unless you pay them.

Not true. Lots of black men assault other black men for free.

Radar 100 Watts, on 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Nah, it's because speaking proper and graduating high school among blacks is considered "acting white". Gotta stikk it to da wyte beast. I actually live in greater Detroit. When my family was poor we lived in the inner city. I have older siblings who saw degenerate black culture first hand. You wouldn't get it because you're too white.

This is confusing because if you lived in the inner city yourself, wouldn't you yourself have seen plenty of degenerate culture? Were you a baby at the time?

This comment implies a level of whiteness that is very high indeed. I'm as white as fuck, but I grew up in a predominately black urban setting and went to public schools / junior college until moving away. I'm still white as fuck and don't pretend to be otherwise. Claiming to be less white because you had siblings who saw some shit seems pretty weak.

Radar 100 Watts, on 07 January 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

I prefer not being affiliated with publications that endorse cuckolding.

Letting people know you feel threatened by this is not the best look.

[Mark]

When dukefan first started posting here I thought it might be interesting to have a liberal that seemed half way intelligent and didn't speak entirely in bumper stick points. But after a short while I see he loves confrontation a bit too much, is firm in his beliefs and has no real intentions of informing/persuading anyone in an good debate. Its becomming the same old thing. I'll back out quietly. I'm sure in his mind he will think its because someone doesn't agree with my views and I couldn't handle it. Its that type of thinking that helped me to decide to leave. But I'll turn up again here with some other foolishness.

[Danukem]

Mark, on 07 January 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

When dukefan first started posting here I thought it might be interesting to have a liberal that seemed half way intelligent and didn't speak entirely in bumper stick points. But after a short while I see he loves confrontation a bit too much, is firm in his beliefs and has no real intentions of informing/persuading anyone in an good debate. Its becomming the same old thing.

It's always the same old thing.

The fact is, most participants are not going to adhere to proper debating rules, or engage in a way that is seriously designed to persuade or inform. If you try, you just get drowned out by a bunch of other people who won't. Noticing this, you then become one of those who don't try because you don't want to waste your effort :-) . Personally, I find that political discourse gets boring in the way that procedurally generated diablo style dungeons get boring. You see the same polemics with minor variations getting repeated and thrown about, on a wide but predictable range of topics that spawn the left / right divide. To have a useful debate between individuals across that divide is extremely difficult. I've seen it happen, and I've been part of such debates, but there are certain requirements that have to be met. First, the participants need to have a genuinely truth-seeking attitude. That doesn't mean they will give up easily on their beliefs, but it means they would be willing to change their beliefs, over time, in accordance with reason. Second, the participants have to embrace similar standards of reasoning, and at least some common sources of information as legitimate (this kind of amounts to the same thing, since reason is ultimately a source of information). If I reject all of your sources and you reject all of mine, then we cannot proceed. If we cannot agree to accept the dictates of logic, then we cannot proceed (or at least, we won't get far). As I say, these requirements are difficult to meet. Sometimes we can meet the requirements with another person on certain topics but not others (that's very common, actually).

[Radar]

Trooper Dan, on 07 January 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

The Germans and Italians didn't need our help, though. I mean, let's be fair.

Exactly. Russia didn't either.

Trooper Dan, on 07 January 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

Not true. Lots of black men assault other black men for free.

True. Black murder is 90% black on black.

Trooper Dan, on 07 January 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is confusing because if you lived in the inner city yourself, wouldn't you yourself have seen plenty of degenerate culture? Were you a baby at the time?

Yes

Trooper Dan, on 07 January 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

This comment implies a level of whiteness that is very high indeed. I'm as white as fuck, but I grew up in a predominately black urban setting and went to public schools / junior college until moving away. I'm still white as fuck and don't pretend to be otherwise. Claiming to be less white because you had siblings who saw some shit seems pretty weak.

Lmao I didn't mean to imply I'm any less white than any other wHiTe OpPrEsSoR here. I'm white af and my nipples are pink.

Trooper Dan, on 07 January 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

Letting people know you feel threatened by this is not the best look.

Dude what? I'm just saying for all the crap right-wing outlets get, not even Fox news would print this.

Trooper Dan, on 07 January 2020 - 05:02 PM, said:

It's always the same old thing.

imo Trying to convince people is a waste of time. I personally see a good debate as an art form, composing of good rhetoric, humor, and style. Good art always has a message. The best debaters know how to convey their thoughts in a vivid and colorful way.