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Difficulty jumping into ventilation shafts at walk speed with new EDuke32

User is offline   Forge 

#1

Difficulty jumping into ventilation shafts at walk speed. This behavior is not present in vanilla Duke3D.

At walk speed normal behavior is to walk forward and easily jump into this ventilation shaft, with Eduke32 the player must jump high, aim for above the shaft, push forward and crouch. Numerous attempts have to be made in order to get "lucky".

eduke32_win64_20190719-7814
windows 10 x64
fx 8320
gtx 650ti
16 gb ram
7200 rpm HDD

classic mode




This post has been edited by Forge: 21 July 2019 - 06:29 AM

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User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#2

bUt At LeAsT yOu CaN't WaRp
-1

User is offline   Lazy Dog 

#3

Trooper Dan already posted this. It also is a problem if you reduce the default run speed.
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User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#4

I can' t believe I got downvoted for that. It's absolutely ridiculous how many problems the new hit detection system has. All you had to do was play E1L1 and realize there are obvious kinks that could be ironed out before its official inclusion. All so that you can't do warps. So, no netcode for 10+ years, warps are gone, and if you disagree you're polluting the general community. The message is quite clear: screw multiplayer.
-3

User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#5

i caN' t BeliEve I gOt doWnvoTed For thAt. It's aBsoluTelY rIdiCuloUs hoW mAny PrObleMs tHe New hiT detEctioN sYstem hAs.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/940/mockingspongebobbb.jpg





I don't always complain about bugs, but when I do I try to be constructive.
5

User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#6

My first post wasn't constructive because my first post was a joke. My second post is a response to the salty down-voters.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#7

What I don't quite understand is why movement speed determines if you can get into a vent or not. Is that a quirk of the way Duke3D/Build was programmed or a quirk of Eduke32?
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#8

View PostNinety-Six, on 21 July 2019 - 08:03 PM, said:

What I don't quite understand is why movement speed determines if you can get into a vent or not. Is that a quirk of the way Duke3D/Build was programmed or a quirk of Eduke32?


It's an Eduke32 bug that was introduced with the clipping overhaul, and it only seems to be a problem when the player is jumping. It's possible that the underlying cause existed before that and the clipping overhaul exposed it.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#9

View PostTrooper Dan, on 21 July 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

It's possible that the underlying cause existed before that and the clipping overhaul exposed it.


So kind of like how the warping issue was itself exacerbated in eduke.
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User is offline   Forge 

#10

View PostForge, on 21 July 2019 - 06:29 AM, said:

This behavior is not present in vanilla Duke3D.

regardless of what caused it, this is my main concern. The port is deviating from the original and introducing potential game breaking behavior
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#11

Has anyone tested behavoir in an original map? Is it a simple matter of slightly increasing opening size or changing the height a small amount? What is actually the barrier to a successful vent jump? Just curious.

This post has been edited by Mark: 22 July 2019 - 04:37 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

#12

View PostMark, on 22 July 2019 - 04:35 AM, said:

Has anyone tested behavoir in an original map? Is it a simple matter of slightly increasing opening size or changing the height a small amount? What is actually the barrier to a successful vent jump? Just curious.

I tested the same vent in the video (E2L1) using dosbox & megaton & neither had an issue with getting into the vent at walk speed.

I didn't make any map edits to see if enlarging the opening would work, but I'm sure it would at some point. Exactly how much would require some trial and error, but ultimately it would only solve a curiosity and not resolve the issue.
1

#13

Yup, even if you find the right position, Duke won't go into the vent, it needs to spam jump 2-3 times, if you jump slowly won't work for some reason.
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User is offline   Lazy Dog 

#14



Between 0:08 and 0:11, when i slide in the front of the vent, i was spamming jump but it did nothing.
This was in r7842, i tested because i read this in the changelog:

r7841 | terminx | 2019-07-24 11:06:06 -0700 (Wed, 24 Jul 2019) | 1 line

Make it easier to jump into vents

i don't know if he was refering to this.

This post has been edited by Lazy Dog: 24 July 2019 - 10:47 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

#15

r7842 seems to have resolved the issue with the ventilation shaft in E2L1. It works while at walking speed.

Thank you dev team.

But as noted, the ventilation shaft in E1L2 (in Lazy Dog's video) doesn't behave like it does in vanilla

This post has been edited by Forge: 24 July 2019 - 11:28 AM

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User is offline   Lazy Dog 

#16

View PostForge, on 24 July 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

r7842 seems to have resolved the issue. Entering the ventilation shaft in E2L1 works while at walking speed.

Thank you dev team.


look at my previous comment (the video), sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't (at least in that vent)
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User is offline   Forge 

#17

View PostLazy Dog, on 24 July 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

look at my previous comment (the video), sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't (at least in that vent)

It has an odd behavior that took me awhile to test. The vent can be entered if jump is double-tapped, but if jump is only hit once, the player gets put in a position where they have their feet on the floor in the hallway, but their head stuck inside the shaft and the jump button does nothing until the player steps backwards away from the shaft

This post has been edited by Forge: 24 July 2019 - 11:32 AM

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User is offline   Lazy Dog 

#18

View PostForge, on 24 July 2019 - 11:31 AM, said:

It has an odd behavior that took me awhile to test. The vent can be entered if jump is double-tapped, but if jump is only hit once, the player gets put in a position where they have their feet on the floor in the hallway, but their head stuck inside the shaft and the jump button does nothing until the player steps backwards away from the shaft


Yeah, same. It's not completely fixed.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #19

View PostForge, on 24 July 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

But as noted, the ventilation shaft in E1L2 (in Lazy Dog's video) doesn't behave like it does in vanilla

I'm continuing to work to get it as close as possible, but there are a lot of odd behaviors caused by the combination of hacks originally in place to make many very broken aspects of the clipping system appear functional. Some changes in these odd behaviors are necessary for things to ever progress from being an eternally broken mess.

I mean, we're talking about a clipping system where truly behaving "like it does in vanilla" would mean that doing the correct dance allows you to transcend space and time, except for when the walls decide to bite you--this is not behavior I want to preserve.

Please keep the reports about map breakage coming, though. I hope it's obvious that I plan to address all of it, even if it's not in a way that 100% matches the DOS version.
5

User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#20

Appreciate all your efforts.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #21

Thanks, man. I dream of a brave new world where Duke bumping his head in a spaceship or swimming next to some metal bars aren't events that cause him to be violently torn limb from limb in an instant.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#22

View PostTerminX, on 25 July 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

Thanks, man. I dream of a brave new world where Duke bumping his head in a spaceship or swimming next to some metal bars aren't events that cause him to be violently torn limb from limb in an instant.


Huh. So this is actually different from the overlapping sector warp glitch?


I've been reading this thread wrong. (not that it makes a difference but)
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #23

View PostNinety-Six, on 25 July 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

Huh. So this is actually different from the overlapping sector warp glitch?


I've been reading this thread wrong. (not that it makes a difference but)

There are at least half a dozen techniques you can use in the DOS version of Duke3D to glitch through all kinds of things. The overlapping sector warp glitch was just one of them! There's also the hold crouch and spam jump glitch, the bump your head on the ceiling glitch, various "wall pushes" where you can get the engine to let you through what should be solid clipping barriers, etc. This is about fixing all of that.
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#24

I know the discussion is about player clipping but I remember years ago in the Decay TC, zombies could somehow manage to cross from a room with white walls over to another room that had white walls and even null space in between them. It scared the crap out of me when testing the maps.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #25

View PostMark, on 25 July 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

I know the discussion is about player clipping but I remember years ago in the Decay TC, zombies could somehow manage to cross from a room with white walls over to another room that had white walls and even null space in between them. It scared the crap out of me when testing the maps.

Build Engine, man. You ask for zombies and get ghosts. :D
6

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