[NightFright]

How does launching mods work in FS? IMO BloodGDX has a pretty neat and easy system which allows you to put all addon files into a folder and load the ini file via custom content ingame menu. It can hardly get more intuitive than that.

[Marphy Black]

VGA, on 18 May 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

This is a custom map he created? Couldn't he find a map that exhibits this problem?

Why does that matter? Blood is over 20 years old. Its mapping standards have been unchanged for literal decades now, and indeed that's what Blood's mapping community has been fostering and cultivating over this entire time. No one should have to concede to the limitations of one engine that came long after the fact.

[Lunick]

Phredreeke, on 18 May 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

What the fuck

[Phredreeke]

Radar, on 18 May 2019 - 05:31 PM, said:

How does this fare in NBlood or BloodGDX?

VGA, on 18 May 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

This is a custom map he created? Couldn't he find a map that exhibits this problem?

You could create a bazillion situations in your own custom map where there is a discrepancy between DOS version and Blood FS.

This is Dark Times, it uses the same effect as shown in the video (except here you can't actually enter the "window") - this is shown in NBlood (although BloodGDX is able to render it as well) and the map itself predates any of the three ports.



This is how it looks in BloodFS.

Micky C, on 18 May 2019 - 06:02 PM, said:

It sounds like you're sticking with it simply because it came first, which isn't the best argument to have.

A lot of people would prefer NBlood simply because it's an executable file that you can download and run out of the box. Zero dependencies.

Actually recent versions of BuildGDX includes the JRE so it will run out of the box as long as well. Both ports have their advantages (gamepad support and easier loading of user maps and episodes in BuildGDX, more accurate renderer in NBlood)

[Tekedon]

VGA, on 18 May 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

This is a custom map he created? Couldn't he find a map that exhibits this problem?

You could create a bazillion situations in your own custom map where there is a discrepancy between DOS version and Blood FS.

Many usermade maps and addons use similar sloped ROR sector. Another that comes to mind is Bloodlines. Also my map here:

check around 3:18.

Youtube link

This is absolutely ESSENTIAL to get working.

[Phredreeke]

Not a bug as much as the consequence of how BloodFS renders skies I guess.

Attached File(s)

•  shot005.png (411.78K)
  Number of downloads: 39

[Tekedon]

Phredreeke, on 19 May 2019 - 06:08 AM, said:

Not a bug as much as the consequence of how BloodFS renders skies I guess.

It's a real big black hole

[Aristotle Gumball]

[Striker]

Phredreeke, on 18 May 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

Link to this map?

[VGA]

Wow that Dark Times screenshot looks dope!

I guess the floating blood and this portal bug are very needed bugfixes... This effect isn't used in the 6 episodes, right? So I have plenty of time to play Blood FS until it's patched.

[Phredreeke]

Still broken in latest version

Attached File(s)

•  2019-06-04_0141_2.png (511.88K)
  Number of downloads: 43

[Zaxx]

The new patch is pretty dope, when it comes to playing the base game FS is the best version of the game now. Hopefully the remaining small bugs will be fixed and the few missing / buggy features will be added soon.

[axl]

Zaxx, on 05 June 2019 - 12:55 AM, said:

when it comes to playing the base game FS is the best version of the game now.

How come ? Why would you want to prefer it over NBlood ?

[Zaxx]

axl, on 06 June 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

How come ? Why would you want to prefer it over NBlood ?

Simple reason, really: the hit detection problems of Build don't exist on KEX + I like the added powerup timers. And I have to admit I like their AO implementation a lot too, it enriches the atmosphere quite nicely.

[Zaxx]

Another small patch for people who had crashes since the last update + window behavior when hit by projectiles is accurate now too:
https://steamcommuni...514097382812678

[Lunick]

Zaxx, on 06 June 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

Another small patch for people who had crashes since the last update + window behavior when hit by projectiles is accurate now too:
https://steamcommuni...514097382812678

Hmm..

[Zaxx]

It's interesting how a lot of their problems are / were connected to sound, music and video playback. It seems like they can't test that middleware stuff well.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Yeah, how "interesting".

[Zaxx]

I can't say that the fact people are still having crashes affects my opinion much (sure, it sucks but fortunately I don't have that issue) because what matters to me is the overall quality of FS. When this thing launched not even a month ago it was garbage and I was like "damn, it will be 6 months until this game will be good"... at launch MIDI playback crashed my game and you could see the inaccuracies just by playing a single map. Now here we are a month later and they fixed most of that shit just in a month so nope, I won't ignore that the game has improved tremendously. People who don't have an axe to grind with Nightdive usually notice stuff like that:
https://twitter.com/...694373763670021

I also won't ignore that:

- FS has multiplayer that works better than all the other options we have even if FS's netcode still has its fair share of issues mostly when it comes to handling lag.

- As a fan of BloodGDX's custom difficulty option it's great that FS's implementation of that feature is even more in depth.

- The aiming is up to modern standards, it just feels snappier and "lighter" than NBlood on top of FS not having Build's problems with hit detection.

Is FS as accurate as NBlood or BloodGDX? Nope, it's not but it's gotten to a point where the inaccuracies are mostly very-very minor so I can't say that I'm bothered by that stuff even though I've known and played Blood for 20 years now. It's a very good representation of the original game and by seeing how fast things are progressing I'm confident that the remaining issues will be solved in a month.

And really, I couldn't give less of a shit about the 3DR / Duke4.net / Voidpoint/ Nightdive rivalry because on top of everything else I'm a fan of the games and not the companies or any individual in the community. I'm just grateful to everyone who worked on us getting 3 modern versions of the game after a decade of sucking at DOSBox and taking care of retro PCs.

[Aristotle Gumball]

"Is FS as accurate as NBlood or BloodGDX? Nope"

Literally all you need to know.

Lunick, on 06 June 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

Hmm..

Can confirm this happens to my friend as well. They never seemed to fix the graphical glitches with built in graphics cards either.

[Zaxx]

Quote

Literally all you need to know.

If you don't care about fucking context then sure, that's all you need to know. There is a difference between something being 70% accurate (that's the number I'd use for the launch version) and 99% accurate (the current state of things).

Quote

They never seemed to fix the graphical glitches with built in graphics cards either.

There are a few things to keep in mind. FS is NOT legacy software so even though the game looks like it was released in 1998 the tech behind it is new, that becomes crystal clear when you look at the system requirements where they state a dual core CPU as the minimum. 32 bit stuff is also not supported and just like it is the case with any PC game that comes out these days laptop hardware and built in graphics chips may not work (that's why you have "Intel CPUs rendering graphics may not be OpenGL 3.2+ compatible" there as additional notes). When you have a game with a limited budget and a dev team that's smaller than what Voidpoint has for Ion Maiden you can expect that stuff sadly, the game is being tested on dedicated GPUs because the vast majority of their potential customers will have those. The other ports are a lot more friendly to old stuff.

With that said the Nightdive Discord is open to everyone and there is a separate channel for Blood FS bug reports so I suggest your friend to try there... because you know, that's where the developers will see it. My personal experience with that method is very positive, they always managed to help me if I had some shit going on.

[Aristotle Gumball]

"When you have a game with a limited budget and a dev team that's smaller than what Voidpoint has for Ion Maiden you can expect that stuff sadly" - how about a dev team of one person doing a better job than NDS, lol. Nuke and M210. Anyway, I don't give a shit if FS will at some point be 100% accurate, I refuse to reward these people with money (and haven't) for the work that they didn't do upon initial release. NBlood and GDX will run on potatoes and I'm sure they'll also be improved in time.

[axl]

Zaxx, on 07 June 2019 - 05:19 AM, said:

And really, I couldn't give less of a shit about the 3DR / Duke4.net / Voidpoint/ Nightdive rivalry because on top of everything else I'm a fan of the games and not the companies or any individual in the community.

This is news to me. Is there a rivalry going on with NDS ?

thricecursed, on 07 June 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

"Is FS as accurate as NBlood or BloodGDX? Nope"

Literally all you need to know.

I have to agree on this point. Although I have to admit I like the AO effect in FS. Would be nice to have the same option in EDuke32 and NBlood.

[Zaxx]

thricecursed, on 07 June 2019 - 07:14 AM, said:

how about a dev team of one person doing a better job than NDS, lol. Nuke and M210.

It's not about one doing a better job than the other, the projects just have different scopes and different goals they want to accomplish. Kaiser and co. rebuilt Blood from the ground under a new engine instead of doing a regular port, that has its drawbacks and its complications. On the technical side of things FS is basically a new game.

And this is really nitpicky but I don't think that the "one guy" argument is true for NBlood: it's built on EDuke32 with strong support from the EDduke32 so it's more of a community effort with Nukey being at the center of it. EDuke32 is a very strong, true and tested source port with more than a decade of development under its belt and that's the backbone of NBlood too.

Quote

Anyway, I don't give a shit if FS will at some point be 100% accurate, I refuse to reward these people with money (and haven't) for the work that they didn't do upon initial release.

So it all comes down to you being biased because you got hurt by the launch state of a game you didn't buy anyway. I can't say I understand that but sure, I won't try to argue on the merits of FS with you then.

[Zaxx]

axl, on 07 June 2019 - 07:19 AM, said:

This is news to me. Is there a rivalry going on with NDS ?

Even after a few years I'm still rather new here so I can't tell that for sure but it always seemed to me that the two wholly different approaches to game restoration created a divide from the start that only got deeper because of some shit none of the parties involved can talk about. And really you can feel this from 3DR too since one of the first things Fred Schreiber has said about FS when it was announced was that he thinks it's illegal (who's struggling with a lawsuit now, huh?).

Personally I don't care though, it's just a feeling I can't shake whenever Nightdive comes up in a discussion around these parts.

[The Battlelord]

Zaxx, on 07 June 2019 - 05:19 AM, said:

because on top of everything else I'm a fan of the games and not the companies or any individual in the community

I can't agree more than this, think and do whatever YOU like, not what others says to be the right.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Zaxx, on 07 June 2019 - 08:06 AM, said:

It's not about one doing a better job than the other, the projects just have different scopes and different goals they want to accomplish. Kaiser and co. rebuilt Blood from the ground under a new engine instead of doing a regular port, that has its drawbacks and its complications. On the technical side of things FS is basically a new game.

And this is really nitpicky but I don't think that the "one guy" argument is true for NBlood: it's built on EDuke32 with strong support from the EDduke32 so it's more of a community effort with Nukey being at the center of it. EDuke32 is a very strong, true and tested source port with more than a decade of development under its belt and that's the backbone of NBlood too.


So it all comes down to you being biased because you got hurt by the launch state of a game you didn't buy anyway. I can't say I understand that but sure, I won't try to argue on the merits of FS with you then.

Mate, the Kex engine already existed too. Most we could say is it's unknown how hard each project was to engineer. Even then, Kaiser had more resources at his disposal and is a paid employee of NDS, whereas Nuke is doing it just for the love of it. Maybe M210 actually deserves to wear the crown of "hardest worker elf", either way - all those projects are FREE and deliver a better quality than this paid product.

I also can't see how you come up with this shit: " the projects just have different scopes and different goals they want to accomplish" - How do you know this? Was this in any of the promotional material?

Why I care? I think shitty "remasters" hurt Blood in the long run. Modding keeps Blood alive, and several modders have already complained about the many bugs and inaccuracies of FS. This shouldn't be people's go to port of the game. And I already said that it's about the principle of refusing to support shitty business practices, like forcing customers to beta test your game.

[Zaxx]

The Battlelord, on 07 June 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

I can't agree more than this, think and do whatever YOU like, not what others says to be the right.

Yeah, I mean we have 3 different versions and none of it is shit (we are fucking spoiled at this point), they just have different advantages and disadvantages. When it comes to me I love some of BloodGDX's features (especially the custom difficulty) but I've always missed the color accuracy from it, the stuff that NBlood provides. FS is combining those things so yep, of course it's going to be my preferred version.

[Zaxx]

thricecursed, on 07 June 2019 - 08:56 AM, said:

Mate, the Kex engine already existed too.

That's only partially true. KEX is not a game engine per se but more of a framework for "hosting" the functionality of other game engines. It's not something like Unity or Unreal at all.

Quote

I also can't see how you come up with this shit: " the projects just have different scopes and different goals they want to accomplish" - How do you know this? Was this in any of the promotional material?

It's obvious if you look at it: Nightdive's remasters always have an expanded feature set, some graphical changes / improvements and in general they like to slightly improve the gameplay (in the case of Blood: custom difficulty, added voxels, AO, AA, auto crouch, powerup timers, improved hit detection etc.).

Quote

I think shitty "remasters" hurt Blood in the long run.

Except they don't, I mean just remember how shitty Duke 3D Megaton / World Tour and Shadow Warrior Classic Redux were. Did they ruin anything in the long run? Not at all, in fact I'd say that both games got quite a bit of new blood thanks to those remasters (okay, not World Tour).

Blood FS is miles above those ports in quality, it provides a cheap and easy to set up option for people who want to play Blood and you can already see that the groundwork was laid down for the eventual console ports. I don't see how that could hurt the game at all, quite the opposite: it's going to help it tremendously. A lot of new people started playing thanks to FS, now I can talk about the game with some of my friends and that's just me... it's back in the broader gamer conscience to use fancy words.

As for FS's problems with fanmade content and whatnot: they are fixing that shit and the game supports a ton of existing fanmade content out of the box. I hope you're not going to suggest that their first priority should have been getting all the mods to work instead of polishing up the contents of the original 6 episodes.

[Zaxx]

Anyway if anyone was like me and hated the shitty re-encoded cutscenes from FS (because they literally just converted the original SMK files - a format they couldn't use for legal reasons - to OGV...), here's something that fixes that: