[Zaxx]

NightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 07:36 AM, said:

those that criticize it for being too hard/dark/badly textured etc. are either wrong, nitpicking or just have no idea what Doom is all about.

My bet is on the last one, from the reactions I've seen it seems like people just can't play Doom well enough. Brutal Doom made Doom more popular, it helped the community in getting more players but if BD was your first dip into Doom and you play all your megawads with BD then I'm sorry to say you don't know shit about how Doom is played. Sigil is not an episode you can just autorun and shoot through so people who have that playstyle will hate it.

[johnnythewolf]

Nancsi, on 26 May 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

Actually Sigil exposed the basic flaw of Ultimate Doom (or well, Registered Doom) beyond the shareware episode. KDITD is fine (and so is E1M4b and E1M8b), as the balance of the weapons/monsters is good. The Pinky is the meatiest of all, but even it can go down by 3 shotgun shots. In Doom 2, the SSG was introduced, and along with the RPG, the Plasma Gun and the BFG, it handled the balanced beastiary of much higer HP. But there is a big void between the shareware episode and Doom II. The 3 registered episodes of UDoom introduced the Caco and the Baron, which both have much higher HP compared to the rest of the squad. And with no SSG in your arsenal. If you don't have the Plasma Gun, fighting them feel out of place and ultimately a chore in the end. Registered Doom was a rushed product, with episode 2 and 3 being made in a very short time, and many enemy types from Archvile through the Mancubus to Revenant is not finished yet. I don't think mapping is actually good for Registered Doom or UDoom, unless you make KDITD type of levels.

I would argue that KDITD is far too easy, even on Ultra Violence, and that E1M4b is pretty underwhelming compared to E1M8b.

[NightFright]

I have to say at the beginning of Sigil, there is a long time (or it feels like that) when you have to rely on the shotgun since it takes quite a while before you find a chaingun and even longer for the rocket launcher. I dunno if you guys often fight Barons with normal shotgun, but it ain't pretty. Now on ITYTD it's OK since there is usually just one Baron with very few "attachments"... but I don't want to picture this in UV.

[johnnythewolf]

NightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

I have to say at the beginning of Sigil, there is a long time (or it feels like that) when you have to rely on the shotgun since it takes quite a while before you find a chaingun and even longer for the rocket launcher. I dunno if you guys often fight Barons with normal shotgun, but it ain't pretty. Now on ITYTD it's OK since there is usually just one Baron with very few "attachments"... but I don't want to picture this in UV.

So it is basically E4M1: Hell Beneath on steroids?

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

I dunno if you guys often fight Barons with normal shotgun, but it ain't pretty.

I've at least gotten used to it by this point. It's not something I necessarily enjoy but I don't find it difficult anymore. Just tedious. I mean Sigil has the opportunity to make it hard again I guess, but I won't find out until the free version comes out.

[NightFright]

It's not like E4M1 because the insane teleporting mobs are not in it. They are not in the first level and also not in any other. Thank God. That made the start of ep.4 kinda hard even on lower difficulties.

There were other annoyances, though. Crusher mazes and later on mazes in general are not necessarily what I need in a Doom map. Gratefully it wasn't overdone, but I still gotta say it's one of the places where you really get into trouble if you don't save your game.

[Zaxx]

Yeah, the crusher mazes were not something I appreciated either but at least the pattern is pretty clear so you only have to solve them once.

[Ninety-Six]

Out of curiosity, for those who played it, what source port and compatibility settings were used during your playthrough?

[Jinroh]

Ninety-Six, on 27 May 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, for those who played it, what source port and compatibility settings were used during your playthrough?

I use Crispy DOOM with as vanilla settings as I can.

[NNC]

I played the game one more time, and loved it more this time. Finding secrets are mandatory, just like back in Romero's old maps. Map 5 and 6 were the best ones, enjoyed every bit of them. I still find the secret level lame, and the ending of Map 7 was annoying and so was the crusher maze in Map 4 (both were great otherwise).

[NightFright]

Ninety-Six, on 27 May 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, for those who played it, what source port and compatibility settings were used during your playthrough?

I only use GZDoom. My first playthrough was with the hardware renderer, 1920x1080, eye-candy (AF, AA, bloom, dynamic lights, brightmaps, lightmaps), no texture filtering (pixel look), Buckethead music. Compat settings were set to default IIRC, I never touch those, anyway. One should definitely see the game with max details at least once, bloom makes the lava lakes and red glows in the dark quite impressive.

Will do another round with "Crispy Doom emulation" (software renderer, 640x400, no visual enhancements, OPL music) for that classic experience. I have a separate config file ready for this purpose at all times. Why not 320x200, some may ask. Well, it's simply too low-res for me by now, recently played Dark Forces in DOS and it gave me headaches. SVGA is the new VGA.

[Ninety-Six]

NightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

I only use GZDoom. My first playthrough was with the hardware renderer, 1920x1080, eye-candy (AF, AA, bloom, dynamic lights, brightmaps, lightmaps), no texture filtering (pixel look), Buckethead music. One should definitely see the game with max details at least once, bloom makes the lava lakes and red glows in the dark quite impressive.

Will do another round with "Crispy Doom emulation" (software renderer, 640x400, no visual enhancements, OPL music) for that classic experience. I have a separate config file ready for this purpose at all times. 320x200 is too low-res for me by now, recently played Dark Forces in DOS and it gave me headaches. SVGA is the new VGA, I'd say.

But what about the actual compatibility settings? (infinitely tall actors, hitscan bug, etc)

[NightFright]

Well, set to default (compatflags = 0, compatflags2 = 0). Basically everything is set to "No".

[Jinroh]

NightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

Why not 320x200, some may ask. Well, it's simply too low-res for me by now, recently played Dark Forces in DOS and it gave me headaches. SVGA is the new VGA.

That is funny, I have the same problem these days. I tried playing SIGIL at 320x200 and I was getting nausea right quick. :/

[Malgon]

Played through after a few emails from John (which was pretty cool that he responded and fairly quick as well), using GZDoom on UV. The playstyle is definitely tighter on ammo, and in more confined spaces with some devious enemy placement. It's interesting how a couple of imps or cacos with little room to circle-strafe can really put the hurt on you. Got up to level 7, which seemed to get a bit harder (although I may have just been really tired by that point), but it definitely keeps you on your toes. Buckethead's music is great, and I thought it fit pretty well, with one of the tracks being really atmospheric and adding to the eeriness of that level. I'll have to play it again with Jimmy's midis as I've heard they suit it nicely as well. It seems fairly solid overall, but if this type of play rubs you the wrong way then you probably won't get much out of it.

NightFright, on 27 May 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

I have to say at the beginning of Sigil, there is a long time (or it feels like that) when you have to rely on the shotgun since it takes quite a while before you find a chaingun and even longer for the rocket launcher. I dunno if you guys often fight Barons with normal shotgun, but it ain't pretty. Now on ITYTD it's OK since there is usually just one Baron with very few "attachments"... but I don't want to picture this in UV.

There's actually a chaingun on the first level in one of the secrets, granted there isn't much ammo for it in the first few levels though! Speaking of secrets, I thought they were easier to find than in Romero's previous E1 remakes, as I managed to find all the secrets in probably the first 4 or 5 levels without too much searching. Anyone else find this?

[NightFright]

I am currently doing my second playthrough with the software renderer and MIDI music on HMP. It is quite a different experience. For starters, I found the game to be a lot darker. There is a scene in E5M6 where the lights will turn off almost completely which I hardly noticed with the hardware renderer while in software it feels like it's almost pitch black. E5M9 adds a Cyberdemon (on ITYTD there isn't a single one throughout the entire episode) which changes entering the castle from a laughable task into a daredevil stunt, especially considering your low ammo supply with a couple of rockets and cells at your disposal at best. And this is, hands down, not an episode for chaingun lovers. You will run low on bullets quickly if you don't switch guns often. I guess difficulty in Sigil works via ammo and monster placement, not monster amounts. Using Jimmy's MIDIs instead of the Buckethead soundtrack offers a refreshingly different musical approach, yet still fitting. I really recommend two playthroughs with both music options.

I am still missing the last two maps, but in total I can already say HMP seems to be doable for non-hardcore gamers like me - challenging but kinda balanced, however it's going to be a bumpy road with trying times. Rocket launcher and Plasmagun are precious tools here and finding ammo for them is basically an event. You don't want to use these on anything below Cacos or Barons. And better don't count on the BFG before the penultimate level (at least AFAIK, didn't find all the secrets).

Can't imagine this with UV pistol starts.

[NNC]

Romero never designed his maps with pistolstarts. Even his easier levels like Circle of Death can push you to conserve ammo, and his other levels are even worse in this aspect. This is also the reason his Doom II maps can't be played without all those Sandy duds around them. If you want to play The Abandoned Mines for example, you have to play the weak Bloodfalls as well, and of course those unbearable levels prior to it.

[Malgon]

...And just finished it! Took me a bit over 3 and half hours (yeah, I'm a bit slow), but the last level was really easy, and also a bit anti-climactic. I missed the secret level, so a replay with the midi soundtrack will work nicely.

[Zaxx]

I'm yet to find the secret map too, I'm still at the point where I don't even know on which map to look for it though map 7 seems like a good candidate. Oh well, if I don't find it on my third playthrough then Google will be my friend.

[NightFright]

I gotta admit I cheated a bit by looking at the MAPINFO inside of the wad, but at least I still managed to find it by myself after that. If you want some hints regarding how to find the secret level:

Can be found in map:

Spoiler

E5M6

Area of that map:

Spoiler

Wall maze with many teleporters and a central tower

How to open the secret exit:

Spoiler

Evil eye switch in one of the distant walls, shootable from inside the central tower with Barons

Secret exit location:

Spoiler

Behind a rock wall close to the teleporter leading to the central tower

[Ninety-Six]

I don't know why I forgot that there would be a secret level in this.


Random unimportant question: is the secret level just a normal level or does it have some kind of gimmick to it? I don't want details; I just want to know if we're looking at something weird and experimental like Fortress of Mystery or ball-busting like Go 2 It, or if it's just a normal level out of sequence.

[NightFright]

I would say it's a level like almost any other in this pack (not like E5M4 though, thank God). There are one or two nice structures in it, but nothing that would really stick out from the rest, I'd say. If there is a mind-blowing secret in E5M9 that makes it special after all, I haven't found it. Wouldn't be too surprised if Romero hid something in one of these maps that is extremely hard to find, though.

Even though it's nothing special, it's still better to find the secret level to compensate a bit for the rather poor and short E5M8. I have a hard time accepting that one as a valid entry.

[Zaxx]

E5M8 is a boss level, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think it was possible to make a really special one of those since Romero limited himself to Doom 1 assets and that meant no new boss.

[NightFright]

BTW it seems there is a major disappointment with the boxed editions. The soundtrack CD does not contain CD audio tracks, just MP3s. Most likely the very same that are inside of sigil_shreds.wad. So much for getting lossless versions of the Buckethead music.

You can still purchase the album on Bandcamp with two extra tracks, but if you paid 160 bucks for the Beast Box, I think asking for a proper audio CD should be a rather modest request.

[Zaxx]

NightFright, on 28 May 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

You can still purchase the album on Bandcamp with two extra tracks

No, the Shreds wad has 11 tracks, the album on Bandcamp has 9, it's missing the intermission and the intro music.

I just extracted the MP3 from the wad with Slade. It's high quality VBR (and even the metadata is in there ) so if you don't have massively expensive audio equipment or the ears of a classical music composer you won't hear the difference (+ honestly the mastering could be a bit better but that's on Buckethead and not on the audio format).

[johnnythewolf]

Wait, so SIGIL has a custom MIDI soundtrack after all?

[Marphy Black]

NightFright, on 28 May 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

So much for getting lossless versions of the Buckethead music.

The lossless Buckethead tracks are on the USB drive.

johnnythewolf, on 28 May 2019 - 01:37 PM, said:

Wait, so SIGIL has a custom MIDI soundtrack after all?

The default music in Sigil is comprised of the midi tracks by Jimmy. Buckethead's tracks are part of the optional additional PWAD.

[NightFright]

Grand. If you have that drive, that is. But well. Realistically, I'm good with the MP3s for now.

And yes, Sigil comes with Jimmy's MIDIs. Two were even composed exclusively for this. The Buckethead soundtrack just overrides it.

[johnnythewolf]

Cool! I like James Paddock's work and I am glad that John Romero got him to officially contribute to the project.

[Marphy Black]

I also just checked the total time of Buckethead's soundtrack, and the length of ~93 minutes is more than a standard 80 minute audio CD can hold. Their only options would have been to remove several shorter tracks or one of the longer tracks.