Software vs Opengl
#1 Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:41 AM
The reason I'm asking this is because I'm making my current game with Software renderer in mind. However, some people like Opengl and unfortunately, there's lots of glitches like spites flickering and such. I mentioned the bugs I've encountered a couple of times, but don't get any kind of proper explanation.
Personally, I'd turn the opengl off as the settings option so the player can't play with it. Howver, I heard that some people can't stand software and won't play the game because of it. But I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking you guys. Would you play the game if there's only one kind of renderer?
#2 Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:35 AM
1) No view stretching when looking up or down.
2) True 32-bit colors
3) Better Performance (except for old intel gpu PCs)
4) Filtering can be turned on or off at will (for people with different taste).
#3 Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:36 AM
However, software (classic) mode also has advantages: Skies look proper, many user maps render correctly and voxels work. Ofc you lose fps since software isn't very performant in higher resolutions, but I can live with that.
#4 Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:41 AM
For IM, I build in software but test in GL, and always switch between renders for more complicated constructions.
This is mostly to keep things "real" without resorting to GL-only tricks.
#5 Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:43 AM
Also, as of recently mouse aiming is much better on OpenGL than in classic.
But I still play in classic. I can't help it, I love it.
IM is the exception to my rule though. As you can see in the preview campaign, precise aiming is much more important in IM than in other Build games, and contrary to previous Build games, it's being built for both renderers in mind.
This post has been edited by MetHy: 07 November 2018 - 09:47 AM
#6 Posted 07 November 2018 - 10:05 AM
That said, I still generally play in Polymost, although I'm not opposed to playing in Classic or Polymer if the map calls for it.
#7 Posted 07 November 2018 - 11:31 AM
#8 Posted 07 November 2018 - 11:49 AM
Sprite flickering can be almost completely avoided by careful mapping. The transparency issues still suck though.
This post has been edited by Mark: 07 November 2018 - 11:51 AM
#9 Posted 07 November 2018 - 12:14 PM
Mark, on 07 November 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:
That and the sprites looking like cardboards are the main reasons I prefer software renderer, at least for the original game and for maps that don't require polymost/polymer.
#10 Posted 07 November 2018 - 02:02 PM
Mark, on 07 November 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:
Sprite flickering can be almost completely avoided by careful mapping. The transparency issues still suck though.
Yeah, for ep 1-4 and the Sunstorm expansions you got Fox's skyboxes, and World Tour comes with its own set of skyboxes as well. For new levels, they can be designed with the OpenGL renderers in mind. That leaves legacy user content... I think Nightfright did some sprite fixes for the add-on compilation but some authors had requested their maps not be edited.
#11 Posted 07 November 2018 - 02:12 PM
Maybe he means custom maps and art that were made with software in mind assets. then yeah, they could look like crap in opengl.
This post has been edited by Mark: 07 November 2018 - 02:15 PM
#12 Posted 07 November 2018 - 02:13 PM
In the end the only really annoying thing about Polymost is what's going on with the skies (never found out why it's like that and whether it will ever be solved), other than that it could be a 100% replacement of the classic renderer for me.
The comment in the addon compilation is quoted a bit out of context. I meant to write there that the HRP only covers contents from duke3d.grp, not any custom art. If you use the HRP with addons that use their own art, highres assets would override those, making them look wrong/not as intended. That's why you shouldn't use the HRP with the compilation.
This post has been edited by NightFright: 07 November 2018 - 02:17 PM
#14 Posted 07 November 2018 - 04:30 PM
#16 Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:03 PM
How is that different in software? Is it because of y-shearing not letting you mouselook in big angles?
#17 Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:00 PM
software
polymost
I was a software fanatic, but i ruled it out the day palette emulation was invented. The only thing that kept me tied to it was the original shading look, which is now very accurate in polymost.
For me, the main problem with polymost is transparent objects cancelling sprites and models in the background, that got to be the most annoying thing with it, and in 12 years i have been following the engine, there was 0 progress regarding that. But i just learnt to avoid using transparencies as much as possible.
This post has been edited by Gambini: 07 November 2018 - 09:05 PM
#18 Posted 08 November 2018 - 01:11 AM
Gambini, on 07 November 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:
Isn't that the same issue the original DOS Build had? I know originally you couldn't have two transparency one behind the other, viewed at the same time by the player. For example, use a texture with transparency behind a transparent maskwall, and the transparent parts of the texture will appear pink.
#19 Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:10 AM
Unfortunately, it looks like most people enjoy polymost.
Like Ninety, I wouldn't use polymost unless it's necessary.
#20 Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:11 AM
MetHy, on 08 November 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:
It's annoying when I make a display case using transparent glass sprites and all the sprites behind it won't render visible.
This post has been edited by Forge: 08 November 2018 - 06:13 AM
#21 Posted 08 November 2018 - 06:20 AM
I guess Gambini was talking about something else.
#22 Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:11 AM
Sorry for the textures, they are different because of the mod, but the metallic one behind the transparent maskwall and the transparent sprite is a modified version of the tile 341. Here is used as a floor texture, and as you can see it works perfect. I don't know about newer builds because I'm not even able to use them with a correct aspect ratio, so I stick to my beloved r4525.
#23 Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:22 AM
This post has been edited by Mark: 08 November 2018 - 07:23 AM
#24 Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:24 AM
Sanek, on 08 November 2018 - 06:10 AM, said:
I don't use Polymost. I don't user Software either. I don't really care for Polymost. Polymer has too many enhancements for my tastes to ignore, though. If I had to choose between Polymost and Software I'd choose Software for sure. I have nothing against software, it's fantastic. I just always use Polymer.
#25 Posted 12 November 2018 - 05:06 AM
Most of my friends (who's not very familiar with Build games) says it's impossible to play the game in software, because of the view stretching. This is the main reason why I created this thread, because people get sick while playing in software. I'd like to use both renderers, but it's impossible because of all the glitches with opengl.
#26 Posted 12 November 2018 - 05:49 AM
The transparency causing sprites and models behind not to render is a separate case to discussin. I, sadly, have never seen a popular engine managing transparencies so poorly as Eduke32 does. I have been taught that transparency is always difficult to deal with for the engines, but Source, Doom modern ports and other open-source engines all them seem to handle it much better. The problem is that it´s been like this since polymost was invented, so its sure a deep inside render issue which hardly will be fixed in the near future. I just avoid using transparency unless the specific situation does not expose the glitch.
#27 Posted 12 November 2018 - 03:58 PM
#28 Posted 23 November 2018 - 02:06 PM
for mods it depends on the mod itself.
This post has been edited by Lazy Dog: 23 November 2018 - 02:07 PM
#29 Posted 23 November 2018 - 03:14 PM
Sanek, on 12 November 2018 - 05:06 AM, said:
Most of my friends (who's not very familiar with Build games) says it's impossible to play the game in software, because of the view stretching. This is the main reason why I created this thread, because people get sick while playing in software. I'd like to use both renderers, but it's impossible because of all the glitches with opengl.
What horrible glitches?