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Software vs Opengl

Poll: Software vs Opengl (30 member(s) have cast votes)

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  1. Software (13 votes [43.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.33%

  2. Opengl (17 votes [56.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.67%

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User is online   Sanek 

  • 571

#1

What kind of renderer do you choose when you're playing the game? Do you like the same original oldscool look, or you'd like something more pleasant and modern?
The reason I'm asking this is because I'm making my current game with Software renderer in mind. However, some people like Opengl and unfortunately, there's lots of glitches like spites flickering and such. I mentioned the bugs I've encountered a couple of times, but don't get any kind of proper explanation.

Personally, I'd turn the opengl off as the settings option so the player can't play with it. Howver, I heard that some people can't stand software and won't play the game because of it. But I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking you guys. Would you play the game if there's only one kind of renderer?
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User is offline   ReaperAA 

  • 8

#2

I prefer OpenGL for Duke3d because:
1) No view stretching when looking up or down.
2) True 32-bit colors
3) Better Performance (except for old intel gpu PCs)
4) Filtering can be turned on or off at will (for people with different taste).
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 823

#3

I used to play in Polymer most of the time since I got used to the special effects, especially lighting and shadows provided by maphacks. Fps take a dive in complex maps, though.

However, software (classic) mode also has advantages: Skies look proper, many user maps render correctly and voxels work. Ofc you lose fps since software isn't very performant in higher resolutions, but I can live with that.
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User is offline   oasiz 

  • 736

#4

You really don't lose over software anymore these days. I think the only thing that I can think of is the alpha blending bug that still exists but other than that, polymost has caught up completely. There is little reason to use SW anymore unless you absolutely want to rule out polymost and use more TROR.

For IM, I build in software but test in GL, and always switch between renders for more complicated constructions.
This is mostly to keep things "real" without resorting to GL-only tricks.
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User is online   MetHy 

  • 1,506

#5

Polymost has gotten better and more accurate looking throughout the years It does look really good these days.
Also, as of recently mouse aiming is much better on OpenGL than in classic.

But I still play in classic. I can't help it, I love it. :dukecigar:

IM is the exception to my rule though. As you can see in the preview campaign, precise aiming is much more important in IM than in other Build games, and contrary to previous Build games, it's being built for both renderers in mind.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 07 November 2018 - 09:47 AM

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User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 215

#6

The one Polymost glitch that stands out to me is the camera clipping through the floor when shrunk.

That said, I still generally play in Polymost, although I'm not opposed to playing in Classic or Polymer if the map calls for it.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 823

#7

If only the skyboxes didn't look so crappy in Polymost. You can fix it with Fox' skyboxes, but as soon as you play custom maps with their own art, you are screwed. Other than that, Polymost could be my default renderer, too.
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User is online   Mark 

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  • 2,699

#8

I have trouble understanding the skybox issue. I think they look waaayyy better under opengl providing they are using the custom 6 tile system. I agree with all of what ReaperAA posted. I've been an opengl/polymer guy since I started my first mod in 2009.

Sprite flickering can be almost completely avoided by careful mapping. The transparency issues still suck though.

This post has been edited by Mark: 07 November 2018 - 11:51 AM

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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 193

#9

View PostMark, on 07 November 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

I have trouble understanding the skybox issue.

Posted Image

That and the sprites looking like cardboards are the main reasons I prefer software renderer, at least for the original game and for maps that don't require polymost/polymer.

Posted Image
2

User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 215

#10

View PostMark, on 07 November 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

I have trouble understanding the skybox issue. I think they look waaayyy better under opengl providing they are using the custom 6 tile system. I agree with all of what ReaperAA posted. I've been an opengl/polymer guy since I started my first mod in 2009.

Sprite flickering can be almost completely avoided by careful mapping. The transparency issues still suck though.


Yeah, for ep 1-4 and the Sunstorm expansions you got Fox's skyboxes, and World Tour comes with its own set of skyboxes as well. For new levels, they can be designed with the OpenGL renderers in mind. That leaves legacy user content... I think Nightfright did some sprite fixes for the add-on compilation but some authors had requested their maps not be edited.
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User is online   Mark 

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  • 2,699

#11

I was referring to NF's opengl comment of " but as soon as you play custom maps with their own art, you are screwed." I don't agree or maybe I'm misunderstanding him. I think the skybox in the HHR mod is fantastic.

Maybe he means custom maps and art that were made with software in mind assets. then yeah, they could look like crap in opengl.

This post has been edited by Mark: 07 November 2018 - 02:15 PM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 823

#12

I also remember that in Polymer, the E4L1 sky doesn't move. Dunno how important this effect is on other maps, but that's where I noticed it.

In the end the only really annoying thing about Polymost is what's going on with the skies (never found out why it's like that and whether it will ever be solved), other than that it could be a 100% replacement of the classic renderer for me.

The comment in the addon compilation is quoted a bit out of context. I meant to write there that the HRP only covers contents from duke3d.grp, not any custom art. If you use the HRP with addons that use their own art, highres assets would override those, making them look wrong/not as intended. That's why you shouldn't use the HRP with the compilation.


This post has been edited by NightFright: 07 November 2018 - 02:17 PM

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User is offline   Newken 

  • 17

#13

Fox's skyboxes are causing stuttering in EDuke32.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

  • 53

#14

I'm generally a software user. I don't like the "sky wall" in Polymost and every enemy being paper doens't sit well with me. I usually don't play polymost unless there's a reason (map requirement, classic skyboxes, etc).

Spoiler

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,046

#15

Polymer all day with the HRP.

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User is offline   VGA 

  • 7

#16

Why do a few people talk about the enemies being paper/billboards in Opengl/Polymost?

How is that different in software? Is it because of y-shearing not letting you mouselook in big angles?
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User is offline   Gambini 

  • 1,356

#17

Because of the same reason when looking up/down in softare the geometry is distorted, view-alligned sprites in software are always an image that is only sensible to scaling, while in polymost they are tied to the z axis, so if you look them from above, the lower part will be sensible to perspective and therefore look smaller, and the higher part, will look of course bigger. That gives them indeed a very cardboard-like look.

software
Posted Image

polymost
Posted Image



I was a software fanatic, but i ruled it out the day palette emulation was invented. The only thing that kept me tied to it was the original shading look, which is now very accurate in polymost.

For me, the main problem with polymost is transparent objects cancelling sprites and models in the background, that got to be the most annoying thing with it, and in 12 years i have been following the engine, there was 0 progress regarding that. But i just learnt to avoid using transparencies as much as possible.

My maps

eat my shorts

This post has been edited by Gambini: 07 November 2018 - 09:05 PM

1

User is online   MetHy 

  • 1,506

#18

View PostGambini, on 07 November 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:

For me, the main problem with polymost is transparent objects cancelling sprites and models in the background, that got to be the most annoying thing with it, and in 12 years i have been following the engine, there was 0 progress regarding that. But i just learnt to avoid using transparencies as much as possible.


Isn't that the same issue the original DOS Build had? I know originally you couldn't have two transparency one behind the other, viewed at the same time by the player. For example, use a texture with transparency behind a transparent maskwall, and the transparent parts of the texture will appear pink.
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User is online   Sanek 

  • 571

#19

Thank you for your replies. Gambini's post are on point.
Unfortunately, it looks like most people enjoy polymost. :P
Like Ninety, I wouldn't use polymost unless it's necessary.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • 7,275

#20

View PostMetHy, on 08 November 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:

Isn't that the same issue the original DOS Build had? I know originally you couldn't have two transparency one behind the other, viewed at the same time by the player. For example, use a texture with transparency behind a transparent maskwall, and the transparent parts of the texture will appear pink.

It's annoying when I make a display case using transparent glass sprites and all the sprites behind it won't render visible.

This post has been edited by Forge: 08 November 2018 - 06:13 AM

1

User is online   MetHy 

  • 1,506

#21

I think I've explained it wrong. See pic related, sprites appear fine, and there is even a 2nd transparent maskwall behind the first one with works fine, but look at the vent ceiling texture. If I use a sprite for it it's fine though so I suppose it's a rather meaningless limitation.

I guess Gambini was talking about something else.

Posted Image
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User is offline   Perro Seco 

  • 193

#22

I'm using an old build (r4525) for a mod I'm working on, and that bug doesn't seems to be present:

Posted Image

Sorry for the textures, they are different because of the mod, but the metallic one behind the transparent maskwall and the transparent sprite is a modified version of the tile 341. Here is used as a floor texture, and as you can see it works perfect. I don't know about newer builds because I'm not even able to use them with a correct aspect ratio, so I stick to my beloved r4525. :D

Posted Image
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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2,699

#23

There is also a very annoying glitch for me with 3D models disappearing behind glass sprites. One example is standing in front of the bank in the HHR mod and looking in. Move your view to the left and right and watch the row of desk models disappear and reappear one by one as you turn back and forth. Or smoke and flame sprites in front of a model can cause you to see right through the model. Sorry, too lazy to make and post screen shots. ;) Its all been discussed before.

This post has been edited by Mark: 08 November 2018 - 07:23 AM

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,046

#24

View PostSanek, on 08 November 2018 - 06:10 AM, said:

Unfortunately, it looks like most people enjoy polymost. :P


I don't use Polymost. I don't user Software either. I don't really care for Polymost. Polymer has too many enhancements for my tastes to ignore, though. If I had to choose between Polymost and Software I'd choose Software for sure. I have nothing against software, it's fantastic. I just always use Polymer.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
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Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
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User is online   Sanek 

  • 571

#25

Is there any previous versions of eduke32 (but not very old) that doesn't have all these horrible glitches?
Most of my friends (who's not very familiar with Build games) says it's impossible to play the game in software, because of the view stretching. This is the main reason why I created this thread, because people get sick while playing in software. I'd like to use both renderers, but it's impossible because of all the glitches with opengl. :(
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User is offline   Gambini 

  • 1,356

#26

I donīt think there are many glitches with the engine, if you go back in the years to older builds you will notice there were lots of improvements, itīs just some stuff that is carried with the time because maybe itīs not something easy to fix. In my personal opinion both software and polymost are in their best shape ever, but there should be possible for modders to tinker around with some parameters, mostly for legacy support (which is crucial on a classic game like this) then many of the glitches you complain about could be fixed by adjusting some parameters.

The transparency causing sprites and models behind not to render is a separate case to discussin. I, sadly, have never seen a popular engine managing transparencies so poorly as Eduke32 does. I have been taught that transparency is always difficult to deal with for the engines, but Source, Doom modern ports and other open-source engines all them seem to handle it much better. The problem is that itīs been like this since polymost was invented, so its sure a deep inside render issue which hardly will be fixed in the near future. I just avoid using transparency unless the specific situation does not expose the glitch.

My maps

eat my shorts
0

User is offline   Micky C 

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  • 3,658

#27

I used to hate classic at first but I've grown to appreciate it over the years. Now I'm fairly agnostic with my choice.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!
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