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Cutscenes for better story flow

User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#31

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 11 February 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

The clothes are inaccurate to the in-game sprites. The wife beater has a black trim which it's not supposed to have, Duke has gelled spiked hair instead of a crew cut, Duke is wearing gloves, and his facial features are younger than they should be. I'm just thinking about authenticity.


Aside from the hair, those could be fixed with edits to the skin and would not require a different model and re-rigging.
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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#32

You can't fix the sunglasses (I edited my earlier post) and the facial structure with an alternate skin.

Of course, whatever he wants to do. I'm not going to complain about free additions or the people donating their time to make them. I just don't see the big deal in swapping out models. Surely it's not that intensive work? Just voicing my thoughts.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 11 February 2018 - 12:14 PM

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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

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#33

It can always use the Polymost old model that still in the HRP (duke3d_hrp.zip\highres\sprites\characters_polymost\), rocket launcher apart it is more faithful to the sprite and the 1996 original cutscene model render.

BTW both classic DOOM and Doom 64 have specific text screens that shows up as the player find the secret level sometimes giving a purpose to it, we should do the same.
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User is online   Mark. 

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#34

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 11 February 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

The clothes are inaccurate to the in-game sprites. The wife beater has a black trim which it's not supposed to have, Duke has gelled spiked hair instead of a crew cut, wrong sunglasses, grey pants instead of blue jeans, silver belt buckle instead of gold, and his facial features are younger than they should be. They both have gloves but what are ya gonna do. I'm just thinking about authenticity. If you're going to use a model, why not use one that's closer?

I really hate the DNF model.


I would never have noticed ( or cared about ) a single one of those things as far as using the model in the cutscene pic. I'm not a nitpicker or perfectionist for the tiniest details. I know I'm on the fringe so I suppose I shouldn't even speak up about this kind of stuff. But I was curious enough to ask what was different. You gave a good reply. Thanks.
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User is offline   Striker 

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#35

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 11 February 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

grey pants instead of blue jeans,

Did you not look at the pictures? The jeans are blue in his cutscenes.
https://forums.duke4...attach_id=12814

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 11 February 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

I just don't see the big deal in swapping out models. Surely it's not that intensive work? Just voicing my thoughts.

It's a shitload of work if they don't have the same skeleton/aren't rigged the same way.

https://forums.duke4...attach_id=12816
IMHO, this should say "to infiltrate the overlord's lair" rather than "infiltrate the overlord's ship" to make more sense. How is Duke going from one ship to another through a sewer?

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Striker: 12 February 2018 - 12:38 PM

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#36

View PostStriker, on 12 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

Did you not look at the pictures? The jeans are blue in his cutscenes.
https://forums.duke4...attach_id=12814


I was asked to show a comparison between the two Duke models, I wasn't necessarily criticizing the cutscene images in the same way.

Quote

It's a shitload of work if they don't have the same skeleton/aren't rigged the same way.


Shows what I know. I'm not a big modeller. And I did invite him to ignore my feedback. This is his free time and I'm not trying to be picky about it. Just thoughts, is all. If it's too difficult, then by all means don't bother.

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User is offline   sebabdukeboss20 

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#37

View PostStriker, on 12 February 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

https://forums.duke4...attach_id=12816
IMHO, this should say "to infiltrate the overlord's lair" rather than "infiltrate the overlord's ship" to make more sense. How is Duke going from one ship to another through a sewer?


Ok that sounds better. I don't know how he goes from one ship to another. All I know is the end of E2L8 is a water tunnel and the beginning of E2L9 is the same one out the other end. I just call it a sewer to sound more dramatic.

Quote

It's a shitload of work if they don't have the same skeleton/aren't rigged the same way.


Back on the Duke model, yes using a new model would mean I'd have to reposition and maybe rescale everything and depending on how it was rigged I might have to do it differently. So I'd rather not use a new model. However, I can modify the texture of the DNF model to match the Duke 3d model more. I did the blue pants as I mentioned earlier since that was obviously different from the 2, but I also made his straps white now and removed the black trim on his red tank top (though you can barely notice on such a small image).


This post has been edited by sebabdukeboss20: 12 February 2018 - 03:32 PM

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User is offline   brullov 

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#38

Just overpaint DNF model and make Duke look as he suppose to be. It is all about his face, hair and glasses. Check the examples below.

Spoiler

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User is online   Mike Norvak 

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#39

Brullov, prepare yourself to see his third and final form: Duke's face as Cena's face with a speech balloon saying Bazinga.
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User is offline   Nancsi 

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#40

The transition between e2l3 and e2l4 has always baffled me. It could be a blackout then all of a sudden Duke wakes up in an alien jail. Or a lost level between these parts.

Also e4 is somewhat interesting. Maps are barely connected, like e4l1 and e4l2 or e4l9 and e4l10. I always thought Randy's 3 maps should have been in a separate episode.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#41

View PostRenegado, on 11 February 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Here's how it looks ingame:
Attachment duke0002.png Attachment duke0003.png

Hmm, the game obviously stretches the original 320x200 pics to 640x480 for correct aspect ratio, now I'm wondering which proportions are correct. sebabdukeboss20, did you "squish" the images vertically a bit for them to display properly when the 4:3 aspect ratio is accounted for in the game?

On a related note, is it possible to have the images in 640x480 straight away? Theoretically there shouldn't be any necessity to stick to the original DOS VGA resolution.


This post has been edited by MrFlibble: 17 February 2018 - 02:24 AM

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User is offline   sebabdukeboss20 

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#42

View PostMrFlibble, on 17 February 2018 - 02:24 AM, said:

Hmm, the game obviously stretches the original 320x200 pics to 640x480 for correct aspect ratio, now I'm wondering which proportions are correct. sebabdukeboss20, did you "squish" the images vertically a bit for them to display properly when the 4:3 aspect ratio is accounted for in the game?

On a related note, is it possible to have the images in 640x480 straight away? Theoretically there shouldn't be any necessity to stick to the original DOS VGA resolution.


I rendered them with 320x200 and gave a letter box over them. I didn't do any squishing. Here's a sample:

Right before E3L9
320x200
Attached Image: e3l9 copy.png

640x480
Attached Image: e3l9B.png

Note: Ignore his wrists for now in the 640x480.
Let me know how it works. Obviously the higher res will look better, but I want it to the flow with the originals resolution wise. However if it did stick with the 320x200, I can squish the pixel ratio to match the original more.


This post has been edited by sebabdukeboss20: 17 February 2018 - 08:57 AM

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User is offline   enderandrew 

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#43

Please release two versions. Low-res 4:3 for people playing Duke in a more classic format, and high-res 16:9 renders (1080p perhaps) for those playing on a widescreen monitor with HRP.
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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

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#44

These are the empty spaces to fill in my opinion, putting also some ideas.

L.A Meltdown

Between Death Row end and Toxic Dump

Explained.


As you enter in the Secret level Launch Facility

Why: Because secret level.

Wiki summary/version: Duke see the shuttle and just want to launch the rocket. Then something goes wrong and the missile explodes.

Cutscene text cue: Finding the launch facility, Duke discover that the Aliens want to requisite a terrestrial shuttle as a war trophy, so it decide that do something (whatever is) is better than leave it in enemy's hand.


As you enter in the Secret level Faces Of Death

Optional, in the end is a regular secret level only on Total Meltdown and the 20th Anniversay Ed. but you can enter even in the classic edition utilizing a glitch. Also the house of developers faces.


Lunar Apocalypse

Between Fusion Station and Occupied Territory

Why: There is no real connection from the end of the previous level to the begin of the next.

Cutscene text cue: Duke could go directly to Tiberius Station but it finds out that there is a large space station (Occupied Territory) that still under alien control, to be sure that they can't call/send any reinforcement as he landing on the Moon, he decides to make a pre-emptive attack.

Alternately, it must go there because there is only access to the Moon that still usable.


As you enter in the Secret level Spin Cycle

Why: Because secret level, but not mandatory.


Between Occupied Territory/Spin Cycle and Tiberius Station

Why: One fundamental objective of the episode is arrive to the Moon, so it is pretty important as event.


As you enter in the Secret level Lunatic Fringe

Why: Because secret level, but not mandatory.


Shrapnel City

Between L.A. Rumble and Movie Set

Why: The helicopter thing.


As you enter in the Secret level Tier Drops

Why: Because secret level.

Wiki summary/version: A series of different movie sets that the aliens have invaded, connected to each other via SuperMario alike passages.


Between Occupied Hotel Hell/Freeway and Stadium

Why: You already did it but it lacks the part of how it finds that elevator, this little problem is less evident if you arrive to Stadium via the secret Freeway level given that the exit look more an elevator (that anyway does not look an elevator to the stadium). I suggest to add a scene where it arrives to the stadium thanks to a vehicle found at the end of this levels, and then Duke enter to use the elevator.


The Birth

Between It's Impossible and Duke-Burger

Why: There is no real connection from the end of the previous level to the begin of the next.

Wiki summary/version: Simply Duke discovers that the Invaders have overtaken his favorite fast food business.

Cutscene text cue: Duke continue his mission but he's starts to be a little hungry because he has eaten nothing since morning, so to avoid fighting on an empty stomach he makes a little detour towards one of his branded Fast-food points, probably with the idea of taking something for free, only to find that is under occupation before the grand opening day. Intolerable.


Between Duke-Burger and Shop-N-Bag

Why: There is no real connection from the end of the previous level to the begin of the next.

Cutscene text cue: Duke still hungry (and angry) since he refused to eat "That shit" at Duke Burger, so I decided to make another little detour to Shop-N-Bag supermarket hoping to find something at least edible on the shelfs. But not before having suffered an ambush with bombing attempt (level begin).


Between Babe Land and Pigsty

Why: There is no real connection from the end of the previous level to the begin of the next.

Cutscene text cue: From the little information, Duke want to go to the local police station to check if some of the good guys still alive.


As you enter in the Secret level Area 51

Why: Because secret level. (how you can't add an introduction to a level called like that anyway?)


Between Pigsty/Area 51 and Going Postal, between Going Postal and XXX-Stacy

Why: There is no real connection from the end of the previous level to the begin of the next.

Cutscene text cue: I dunno frankly, I think you could put any plausible event, or ignore deliberately.


You know if cutscenes are present Total Meltdown's Plug n' Pray and 20th Anniversay Ed. New Alien Order?
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User is online   Phredreeke 

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#45

New Alien Order has practically no continuity between levels. It goes from Holland to Russia to England to Egypt to France to California.

IMO, let secret levels be just that. Also I don't think Faces of Death works as a secret level in Ep 1 anyway (first, in World Tour it returns you to the start of The Abyss after beating it, this could be fixed if you move the Battlelord to its own level like Duke 64 does. second it ruins the introduction of the Battlelord, kinda like the reinstated Jabba scene in the special edition of Star Wars)
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User is online   RichardStorm 

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#46

I would examine more things, just if someone did not put more attention.

First, the only clear plot elements come from help file, end cutscenes for ep 2 and 3 and from start cutscene at ep4.
Basically, Duke mission is to save humanity from aliens, and this occurs by killing them, clearing zones, exploring alien installations and remove alien command bad guys.
The big thing that is not clear is which level can be interpreted as a necessary passage for something, or a sub-mission on the route. We can assume Duke receives objectives and details from US Army or EDF between levels.
Let's take ep4: the mission is discovering something about an alien abduction experiment. What's the meaning of starting from this IMF, then going through random urban zones, destroying a nuclear plant, getting on a mercantile ship that get "locked" from aliens right above an installation under the sea floor... and then duke finds out that that is the Queen's lair ? Also, "the big purple lava corridor" and queen's zone are linked via a weird small cavern.

Second, if we don't assume that "nukesymbol" is just a badass level ending (and for some reason is -outside- the environment), Duke still needs to Nuke the zone he already went in, presumably with no alien left if not speedrunning or skipping parts (i assume everybody kills every enemy when playing dn3d).
And is weird that many civil areas got a nuclear device :D
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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

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#47

All these problems could be bypassed if, together with the new cutscenes, we add one DOOM (1) style intermission map on those level transitions that do not seems to be logical and where even an attempt to rationalize the passage look like a forced explanation. We should just choose what to use as a base: Real-life photos?, hand draw? (like the DTWID team did), models? a combination of all this things?

The nuke button represents just the exit and the flash thing it's an effect only, I don't think it actually nuclearize the area. Infact in most of the level that has connection, the small part of map that is a replica of the previous map end still intact.

This post has been edited by Fantinaikos: 19 February 2018 - 09:19 AM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#48

Adding cutscenes / text explanations between levels that have no obvious connection will call more attention to the lack of connection and will be a transparent fanboy attempt to rationalize a level progression that had no rationalization originally.
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User is online   Mark. 

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#49

While I can see adding a new cutscene or 2, adding in many more strays away from the "keep it original or else it's blasphemy" ideal. Just a few well placed and agreed upon transitions. A good compromise.
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User is online   Mike Norvak 

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#50

View PostTrooper Dan, on 19 February 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Adding cutscenes / text explanations between levels that have no obvious connection will call more attention to the lack of connection and will be a transparent fanboy attempt to rationalize a level progression that had no rationalization originally.


This.

It's a fps from the 90's just let it be like it. Maybe a funny story would help but perhaps that would be even harder to achieve.
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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#51

Having new screens for the beginnings of episodes 1, 2 and 3 would be cool, though.
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