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Prey (2006)

User is offline   Poorchop 

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#1

I read a lot of good things about Prey many years ago and it was on my wishlist for a long time but I never got around to buying it. The game came up again yesterday when I was talking with some other people so I decided to finally play through it. Turns out that it's abandonware now and it was pulled from distribution, which is quite the shame especially in light of the fact that the reboot came out just this year.

Anyways the game managed to keep me captivated with it's interesting gravity and perspective mechanics. Once I got into it, it was hard to put it down. That being said, the combat was kind of stale and like a lot of other games from that time, it was heavily laden with cramped corridors for the most part. There's no way to run and therefore no real way to dodge most incoming attacks. Peeking behind cover almost never accomplished anything. When enemies charged at me, I felt like all I could do most of the time was to eat the damage.

In spite of its many shortcomings, the game was still really enjoyable overall. The Native American motif was cool although the execution was pretty cheesy a lot of the time, especially at the end. Some of the more open environments looked really cool despite being kind of empty, and the backdrop of space and the star-like patterns of the ship's exterior shell looked great. The game definitely had some very cinematic moments. I took some screenshots but I forgot to save them when I closed the game.

I really would have loved to see Prey 2 but I've heard that the reboot is good. I have yet to play it though and I'm not sure if I ever will since I don't dedicate a lot of free time to newer games but we shall see. Here's another thread with some interesting information about early Prey concepts for anyone interested in reading more.

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This post has been edited by Poorchop: 28 December 2017 - 10:54 PM

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User is online   Micky C 

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#2

As Iím sure others agree, itís a shame the new Prey reboot has taken over the franchise while having little to nothing in common with the first one. The publisher would hve zero motivation to re-release the 2006 Prey as it would only create confusion in the general gaming community and muddle the franchise identity.

Then again, never say never.

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User is offline   Player Lin 

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#3

View PostMicky C, on 29 December 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

The publisher would have zero motivation to re-release the 2006 Prey as it would only create confusion in the general gaming community and muddle the franchise identity.


While I agreed this, but really, who's fault at that? :P

This IP just already dead after Bethesda Softworks f***ed whole shit up years ago.
I don't want to comment about the 2017 version by Arkane Studios due I don't have interest on it and wouldn't be fair for them if I don't want to try it at all...so, whatever.


But, yeah...hope still there, but fat chance.

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This post has been edited by Player Lin: 29 December 2017 - 07:10 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#4

If you can find a physical release somewhere you can redeem the CD key on Steam (if it's not yet redeemed). That's how I got my copy.

And I wouldn't call it a reboot. A reboot means it's taking something of the original and redoing or reimagining it. This is more like a rebranding. Except instead of changing the name, it changed the game instead. Entirely. Then stole the brand for itself.

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#5

View PostPoorchop, on 28 December 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

I really would have loved to see Prey 2 but I've heard that the reboot is good. I have yet to play it though and I'm not sure if I ever will since I don't dedicate a lot of free time to newer games but we shall see.

I suspect I would have considered Prey 2 as a good game in itself, but not really a direct follow-up to Prey, since the main character was not Tommy, while Tommy's presence was nothing more than a sop to prevent hardcore fans from raging. It's almost how I feel about the 2017 Prey: it's a very good game on its own, the mechanics are good, the freedom of movement is good, the plot is good... but it should have not been called Prey. Calling it Prey was just Bethesda being its assholey self.
I almost wish... no, I MOST DEFINIITELY wish Human Head would change all names in the Prey 2 it was developing, updated the graphics and released it with another title, because you need an asshole to fight an asshole.

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 29 December 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

If you can find a physical release somewhere you can redeem the CD key on Steam (if it's not yet redeemed). That's how I got my copy.

Or warez it. It's not like you're preventing anyone from selling it. BTW, if you have a physical copy, what do you need a Steam key for? I still have my Prey DVD I bought in 2006, which I just recently installed on my current gaming PC: I updated it to the point release, and it plays just fine without involving Steam.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 29 December 2017 - 06:51 PM

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User is offline   Poorchop 

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#6

It's too bad that 3D Realms sold the rights to Bethesda. The original concept for Prey 2 sounds like it would've been fun.

As for the rebranding, it doesn't seem like the sequel would've shared too many similarities with the first anyway. From what I've read, Tommy wasn't going to play a major role in the sequel. The first game didn't really end on a cliffhanger anyway and there really weren't any questions that were left unanswered. Even if you skipped the talk show radio dialogs throughout the game, the entire plot and all of the details are summarized at the end.

I did have some issues with the ending though.
Spoiler

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#7

View PostPoorchop, on 29 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

I did have some issues with the ending though.
Spoiler


Some points you are afraid of might actually be what Human Head was going for. My headcanon is:
Spoiler

And now, just for fun, a little canon welding (which, if you're unfamiliar with the term, means merging two different continuities):
Spoiler


If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 29 December 2017 - 08:07 PM

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User is offline   Player Lin 

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#8

View PostAltered Reality, on 29 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Or warez it.



I would considering this, sadly, even I know it's bad. :(
At least I know where I can find that...

Legal physical copy isn't easy to find and, I'm not trust online seller...

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Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(
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User is offline   Poorchop 

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#9

View PostAltered Reality, on 29 December 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Some points you are afraid of might actually be what Human Head was going for. My headcanon is:
Spoiler


Those are some interesting points but I never got the impression that Human Head was going for a backstory with that level of detail. Tommy clearly has superpowers as does his grandfather to a certain extent but it seemed heavy on Native American mythology as opposed to suggesting that
Spoiler


In fact,
Spoiler


Frankly, it's still confusing even after reading your points but I guess there's no point in thinking too deeply about it.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#10

View PostAltered Reality, on 29 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

BTW, if you have a physical copy, what do you need a Steam key for? I still have my Prey DVD I bought in 2006, which I just recently installed on my current gaming PC: I updated it to the point release, and it plays just fine without involving Steam.


More like, if I have the Steam key why do I need the physical version? ;) I sold my copy a while ago on this very forum since I had it on Steam through it and didn't have any special connection to the game. I was saving money for lightsaber parts...

No, but I still have the disc images. I don't TOTALLY let that stuff go. I save all the images of every (classic) game I own. Just in case.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 29 December 2017 - 10:55 PM

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#11

View PostPoorchop, on 29 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

Those are some interesting points but I never got the impression that Human Head was going for a backstory with that level of detail.

I think they went for more details than "casual" players believe, some of which only become apparent if you use the editor. A curious thing I noticed is that, if you place a shuttle and a box of beer in a level, that box will glow like the soul of an alien when you're flying the shuttle. And if you fire a tractor beam at it, it will be repelled instead of attracted.

View PostPoorchop, on 29 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

Tommy clearly has superpowers as does his grandfather to a certain extent but it seemed heavy on Native American mythology

That could mean that unusual things were being reinterpreted according to pre-existing mythology, just like the arrival of the Sphere is referred to as "the return of the mountain spirits" in the first trailer.

View PostPoorchop, on 29 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

In fact,
Spoiler

That's what I used to believe, until I noticed some odd things that only make sense if we reject that assumption.
Spoiler


View PostPoorchop, on 29 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

I guess there's no point in thinking too deeply about it.

Oh yes, there is a point. It's fun. ;)

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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User is offline   Poorchop 

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#12

View PostAltered Reality, on 30 December 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Spoiler


Spoiler


I'll take your word for it though. I didn't mess around with the editor but seeing as how you dug much deeper, you know your stuff. Speaking of all of this, I felt that the death mechanic in the game was a little questionable. There's not as much of a sense of progress or achievement if after you get shot, you just shoot a few stingrays and you pick up exactly where you left off with nearly full health and full souls. I also forgot to mention before that I didn't like how the first rifle seems to freeze up intermittently. The combat mechanics just felt off to me a lot of the time, especially regarding the lack of ability to dodge incoming attacks or approach fights tactically, but for some reason I still really wanted to keep playing.
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User is offline   Toxic34 

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#13

View PostAltered Reality, on 29 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

I suspect I would have considered Prey 2 as a good game in itself, but not really a direct follow-up to Prey, since the main character was not Tommy, while Tommy's presence was nothing more than a sop to prevent hardcore fans from raging. It's almost how I feel about the 2017 Prey: it's a very good game on its own, the mechanics are good, the freedom of movement is good, the plot is good... but it should have not been called Prey. Calling it Prey was just Bethesda being its assholey self.
I almost wish... no, I MOST DEFINIITELY wish Human Head would change all names in the Prey 2 it was developing, updated the graphics and released it with another title, because you need an asshole to fight an asshole.


I asked the people at Human Head whether they had any interest in revisiting anything from Prey 2 under a new title and new character names so as not to step on Bethesda's toes. The response was emphatic...simply not happening. They "have moved on from the past." They also did state that if Bethesda had not called the 2017 game Prey, the rights to the name would've expired and returned to that title's original holders, the Radar Group, on New Year's Day, and if that had happened, they could easily have asked Human Head to revive the project. The only type of thing that could change that was if people got together to fund a lawsuit for the IP rights, much like how Jimi Hendrix's family filed an expensive lawsuit to regain the rights to his masters and music, which was funded by loans from people like Paul Allen.
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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#14

So they have "moved on from the past" but they are making a Rune sequel. Hmm.

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#15

I'm just frustrated by all the salt that is coming from Prey 06 fans for one simple reason: Prey 2017 is fucking fantastic, it's the System Shock 2 for this generation without the simplifications that Bioshock introduced. It's a true, hardcore Shock game everyone who likes Shock should play. Stop caring about how Bethesda fucked up the IP, it's not your problem and Prey 06 was not an irreplaceable masterpiece. Sure, it was good a game but it's not the true Shock masterpiece that Prey 2017 is. Support good developers who stick to their guns and make core games, stop caring about industry and IP politics.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 03 January 2018 - 10:10 PM

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#16

I'm sorry but I just cannot support a company which charges people for mods while giving very little of the profits to the creators.
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User is offline   axl 

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#17

View PostZaxx, on 03 January 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

I'm just frustrated by all the salt that is coming from Prey 06 fans for one simple reason: Prey 2017 is fucking fantastic, it's the System Shock 2 for this generation without the simplifications that Bioshock introduced. It's a true, hardcore Shock game everyone who likes Shock should play. Stop caring about how Bethesda fucked up the IP, it's not your problem and Prey 06 was not an irreplaceable masterpiece. Sure, it was good a game but it's not the true Shock masterpiece that Prey 2017 is. Support good developers who stick to their guns and make core games, stop caring about industry and IP politics.


I have to agree here. I've just finished the new Prey and it was just amazing. I even dare to say it was probably among the best FPS games I ever played since the release of Half-Life 2. Arkane Studios are masters when it comes to level design and building a believable game world.

I also finished the original Prey and thought it was a good game, but nothing special. The game started incredible with the bar scene, but afterwards quickly became more like a standard FPS.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#18

I don't really care about System Shock or System Shock type games. Where does that leave me?

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#19

View PostGrand Admiral Thrawn, on 03 January 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I just cannot support a company which charges people for mods while giving very little of the profits to the creators.

Look, I'm an old school, diehard Fallout fan so you can guess what I think about their RPGs (let's just say I'm a happy Wasteland fan now) and sure, the Creation Club or whatever is terrible too so Bethesda Game Studios can suck it as far as I'm concerned... but still:

- Beth is a strong supporter of single player content and in the age of cheaply developed online shooters with loot boxes I can respect that... a lot.
- Beth is constantly publishing FPS titles I'm interested in and most of the time these end up being amazing games I consider modern classics (namely Dishonored, Doom 2016, Wolf TNO and Prey 2017).
- Beth is the only publisher that dared to try bringing back classic online arena shooters with Quake Champions and they are doing it with a business model where even loot boxes get a pass because it's not predatory bullshit and the game will be free-to-play once it's done.
- Even though I hate their RPGs I still can't deny the fact that they offer content with a capital C: the TES and Fallout games are massive, they don't overcharge stuff even though they could and basically only The Witcher 3 can compete with them in content.

But most importantly Bethesda has balls which is something I can't say of any other big publisher these days. Those balls sometimes result in the best single player FPS since Half-Life 2 (Doom 2016) or in the wet dream of any old school Fallout fan (New Vegas) but sometimes you get laughable stuff like the Creation Club or the 666th re-release of Skyrim too. The point: they try new things that go off the beaten AAA-path and that's what we need right now.

As for Prey: I can't say I would have done anything differently. Remember when Prey 2 was first shown to the public? Some people liked it but a very loud portion of the fanbase (myself included) just couldn't wrap their heads around it. It was nothing like the original game, it seemed like some sandbox bounty hunter stuff and Tommy was nowhere to be found. Human Head was working on it, it was called Prey 2 but it wasn't Prey, it seemed interesting but it wasn't really well received. Also the thing is that if you own Doom, Wolfenstein and Quake you won't start pouring money into a real Prey 2 because the original game was just too similar to those classic, more prominent and more profitable IPs. Even a single player Quake game would be a higher priority than Prey 2 and we all know we're not going to see a single player Quake game anytime soon.

And as we all know companies do not like pointlessly losing IPs so they had to "hijack" Prey in order to do something with it. That's just the way it is, you don't let IPs out of your hand.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 03 January 2018 - 11:13 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#20

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 03 January 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

I don't really care about System Shock or System Shock type games. Where does that leave me?

That leaves you in the point of your life where you have to give System Shock 2 another chance. :D I hated that game the first time I started playing it... then I got it.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 03 January 2018 - 11:14 PM

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User is offline   Altered Reality 

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#21

View PostZaxx, on 03 January 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

I'm just frustrated by all the salt that is coming from Prey 06 fans for one simple reason: Prey 2017 is fucking fantastic, it's the System Shock 2 for this generation without the simplifications that Bioshock introduced. It's a true, hardcore Shock game everyone who likes Shock should play. Stop caring about how Bethesda fucked up the IP, it's not your problem and Prey 06 was not an irreplaceable masterpiece. Sure, it was good a game but it's not the true Shock masterpiece that Prey 2017 is. Support good developers who stick to their guns and make core games, stop caring about industry and IP politics.

It would've been even better, had that concept been worked into an actual Prey 2, with Tommy as the main character.
The story could have started right after the post-credits scene in Prey. Tommy enters the cosmic tunnel and finds himself on Exodus, which he can explore freely (but with some initial limitations). The inhabitants of Exodus tell him they have seen his fighting skills on the Sphere, so they hire him as a bounty hunter. The more enemies he kills, the more souls he can absorb, and he can "spend" those souls to increase his skills with weapons and acquire more spiritual powers (the in-story reason being that every time he absorbs a soul, he acquires the knowledge and skills of the original owner of the soul).

Obviously, this premise would make it impossible to work in the final plot twist that was thought for Prey 2, but there would be another way to let Tommy roam Exodus freely when the main story is over.
At the end, Tommy says he needs to go back to Earth: he believes that the spiritual skills he acquired ought to be taught to everyone, and everyone deserves to be freed from the clutches of death. The alien he is talking to (maybe an old sage type) laughs at Tommy's naivety, and asks him "They don't have the capabilities to learn the things you can do. Do you think it was for your attitude that you were chosen to come here? For your courage? For your skills as a warrior?"
Tommy says yes, and the alien sage replies: "No, it's not who you are. It's WHAT you are." And then he drops the bomb: the reason why Tommy can defeat death and have spiritual powers is that Tommy himself is an alien. He concludes with a final consideration: "You can return to Earth, and live as a nobody or as a freak. Or you can stay here, and put your abilities to use."
Tommy's final line is what was supposed to be Talon Brave's final line in Paul Schuytema's iteration of Prey: "Screw that pathetic rock!"

If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.
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User is offline   Poorchop 

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#22

The original Prey was interesting to me because it was attempting to portray a culture in an interesting way, a culture that seldom gets attention in this kind of media. When I first heard about this game and saw screenshots, I was intrigued and curious to find out how Native American mythology would be meshed with a hostile alien takeover. As I mentioned, I haven't played the new Prey but it doesn't seem like the characters would have a particularly interesting background. It gave me Dead Space vibes and in the case of that game, it was fun and compelling but ultimately it was mostly a generic sci-fi backdrop.

About one week later, the other thing that really stood out to me after playing it was the approach to perspective. Walking on walls and ceilings or navigating tiny planetoids with their own gravity wasn't new to me, but it was still awesome seeing these things implemented in a first person shooter like this. I could be walking across several different surfaces when suddenly aliens spawn above me or on a wall to my right. I would have liked to see this implemented again but with better combat mechanics, and Prey 2 could've delivered on this.

I'm not knocking the new Prey but it just rubs me the wrong way that they gave it the same exact title especially when it has absolutely no relation to the original game. It's like the original is just being wiped from existence. I don't appreciate that they did the same thing with Doom 4 although fortunately Doom 1 is such a landmark title that it will never be usurped. In hindsight, it doesn't even make sense to bring up the new Prey when talking about 2006 Prey since it doesn't have any relevance to the discussion. The original game deserved a true sequel and I like Altered Reality's idea of working in Tommy as the lead. It would have been awesome to play as a bounty hunter traversing different galaxies in a more open world fashion, sort of like Deus Ex but maybe without the RPG elements.
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User is offline   Player Lin 

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#23

View PostZaxx, on 03 January 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

That leaves you in the point of your life where you have to give System Shock 2 another chance. :D I hated that game the first time I started playing it... then I got it.


Sometimes it just not "playing it" can fixed. While I agree "Just try it" is good idea, but sometimes, it just not going to work.

"I have no interest on such gameplay or plot or something, I have other games I would try and I don't have time." or "Okay, I'm playing this game, seems good, nice lore/plot, graphics looking good, but I don't like the gameplay..." and then quit, lose interest and forgotten about that. For me, I rarely fixed this kind of problems, if I can't get satisfied with its gameplay or found something make me stuck in it, then the chance of give up just super high. and sadly, System Shock/Bioshock style games just fall into this situation. :(


I had no interest on Fallout universe before I tried FNV(free copy, or I still not care), and then got FNV:UE, FO3:GOTY...and then FO4, but I still no interest on FO1/2 and other early FO games, because I didn't liked/had interest on their gameplay or something, and it seems never fixable since I only interest on first person perspective-based of Fallout games.(Thanks the wikis, I still read some of lore/plot information for those games I didn't played), oh, and I have no problem with BGS, but Bethesda Softworks just other story, they just screw things too many times I guess, paid mods/Creation Club most likely their idea for sure.

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This post has been edited by Player Lin: 05 January 2018 - 09:41 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#24

View PostPlayer Lin, on 05 January 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

Sometimes it just not "playing it" can fixed. While I agree "Just try it" is good idea, but sometimes, it just not going to work.

I did not mean "just try it", what I meant was "try it and stick to it for a few hours" basically. Shock games tend to take a few hours to get interesting (especially mechanically) and that period can also be a bitch when it comes to gameplay. No matter what class or difficulty you choose, System Shock 2 will be hard at first and since the game does not have much staying power in its FPS mechanics (as an FPS System Shock 2 is basically terrible when it comes to the feel of the weapons) that can throw you off, especially if you're playing as a soldier.

As for Fallout: if all you care about is the shooty-shooty-bang-bang then I don't recommend Fallout 1 and 2, those are deep, story and choice driven RPGs. New Vegas can offer that too... with the shooty-shooty-bang-bang included. Just keep in mind that those who play 1 and 2 before NV will get a much richer world since NV takes place on the west coast (a familiar territory to old fans) and its lore is strongly connected to the old games. Anyway I did not quit Beth's Fallout games because they are not fun games (they are at their cores), I quit them because the writing is just abysmal, your choices don't matter and the RPG system - if you can call it that - is insultingly dumb. Those games are like rape for most original fans.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 05 January 2018 - 04:43 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#25

I love Beth's RPGs. I played Fallout 3 for a bit and sort of liked it (it was the first time I actually role-played my character, instead of just playing as "me"), but it didn't feel enough like Oblivion to me at the time (ironic, I know, given its criticism to the opposite effect at the time). Someday I'll get back to it. Maybe I just prefer the fantasy setting. I was never a diehard fan of the original Fallouts, though.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 05 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#26

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 05 January 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:

I love Beth's RPGs. I played Fallout 3 for a bit and sort of liked it (it was the first time I actually role-played my character, instead of just playing as "me"), but it didn't feel enough like Oblivion to me at the time (ironic, I know, given its criticism to the opposite effect at the time). Someday I'll get back to it. Maybe I just prefer the fantasy setting. I was never a diehard fan of the original Fallouts, though.

All things considered Fallout 3 was a fine game: most of the RPG system was intact (though you'll end up as a jack of all trades god by the end so it was already broken) and while the story and the writing was terrible at least it pretty much was the remake of Fallout 1 and 2 so seeing familiar stuff in 3D was fun. Then NV came and blew F3 out of the water and when I saw the F4 presentation I was like "okay, they ruined it, it's dumber than Skyrim now"... and I was so right that even F3 fans complained a lot about F4. By Bethesda standards F4 got a terrible critical reception and as well as user reviews so maybe things will change. Chris Avellone, one of the people mainly responsible for F1, F2 and NV works now as a freelancer and he already worked with Bethesda on Prey 2017 so maybe Beth will learn from this and hire him as the lead on F5. I wouldn't bet on that though as based on interviews and stuff Avellone disagrees with pretty much everything Bethesda did with Fallout (Bethesda absolutely doesn't get it, you see) so his involvement would bring a lot of tension with it.

The thing is that Bethesda can create some amazing game worlds but the TES game design clashes with Fallout basically in its entirety. For example when Beth builds a world they focus on exploration and fun, that's the most important thing to them and while Fallout can support that greatly a certain amount of realism would be important. For example Megaton was a fun little city in Fallout 3 but stuff like that should never be in Fallout because even though the franchise is batshit crazy there is a semi-realistic approach to everything. The same goes for the Tenpenny Tower and the ghoul settlement in the museum: those people would die there, they shouldn't live there. When I launched New Vegas and saw that the settlements there have crops, water and stuff I almost shed a tear, dude. :D Fallout 3's world is a theme park, not a semi-realistic setting suited for Fallout.

The same goes for the writing: sure, Fallout can be funny but it shouldn't feel like a world full of lunatics who do craaaazy things. Fallout IS satire lots of times but it's smart, it's about morality, ethics, politics and ideals and it's a satire about society. It's fun and funny but also deeply depressing if you think about it. For example in Fallout 2 you can end up as a pornographic actor if you do well on a casting (of course your endurance and agility has to be high to pass :D) but if you do badly they'll force you to be the dude who "gets the guys ready" before a shoot and you only get a few cents and some STD. Funny as fuck but it's based on our reality and nothing is sugar coated (if Fallout 2 were remade in full 3D in its entirety it would get an adults only rating, I'm sure). You can even kill childre NPCs in the first two games (and even if you don't do that there is a chance that you get in a firefight carelessly and they get caught in the crossfire) because they try to model how an actual post-apocalyptic world where morals are scarce and law is non-existent would work.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 05 January 2018 - 09:04 PM

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User is offline   Player Lin 

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#27

View PostZaxx, on 05 January 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

I did not mean "just try it", what I meant was "try it and stick to it for a few hours" basically. Shock games tend to take a few hours to get interesting (especially mechanically) and that period can also be a bitch when it comes to gameplay. No matter what class or difficulty you choose, System Shock 2 will be hard at first and since the game does not have much staying power in its FPS mechanics (as an FPS System Shock 2 is basically terrible when it comes to the feel of the weapons) that can throw you off, especially if you're playing as a soldier.

As for Fallout: if all you care about is the shooty-shooty-bang-bang then I don't recommend Fallout 1 and 2, those are deep, story and choice driven RPGs. New Vegas can offer that too... with the shooty-shooty-bang-bang included. Just keep in mind that those who play 1 and 2 before NV will get a much richer world since NV takes place on the west coast (a familiar territory to old fans) and its lore is strongly connected to the old games. Anyway I did not quit Beth's Fallout games because they are not fun games (they are at their cores), I quit them because the writing is just abysmal, your choices don't matter and the RPG system - if you can call it that - is insultingly dumb. Those games are like rape for most original fans.


Maybe I understand what you mean, but the problem still exist, if I cannot try it about some minutes, then how to I try to stick on it few hours? I'm not a "forcing play games that I didn't like/no interest" kind of player...
(Hell, I give up at DooM 2016 campaign because just lose on interest about challenges from checkpoint system and never be able to fix it, just want to play something I can save whatever I want these days or something not too hard or not "die once, lose lot of progress"...sadly...)

I like the stories of Fallout 1/2(so I did read them from The Vault wiki), but if it was FPP maybe I would like to try. not just "shooty-shooty-bang-bang"...really, when I see the screenshots of Fallout on magazine when I was about 9-10 year old, I did knew that's great game about its lore/plot but the gameplay just can't let me want to even try.the game..:(

FNV fixed the problem so I can try it and enjoy what something like in FO1/2...but still, not all of them...the ending plot for main quest, BoS just like Enclave --- still like assholes to Wasteland inhabitants(so I like FO3's Lyons' BOS, but sadly, BGS decided made them go back asshole mode in FO4), but that's my opinions.

As a fan on TES5(didn't tried old titles yet...too many games needed to play without enough time...but still has interests), I agree FO4 is not better than TES5, it even like insulting TES5 when try to compare them. A RPG doesn't looks like RPG at all... but I still like FO4 you know, as I enjoy exploring and FP style, even maybe something in that game.

I'm not hardcore FO player and tired see those complaints from old fans about new FO games, but I respect all their opinions, I just don't want to care anymore and enjoy my time with those games. If BGS cannot do something like what Black Isle/Obsidian guys did then just so be it. :)



Oh, looks like now just went off-topic so much. :P

I'm the guy at 3DRealms Forum...

http://forums.3dreal...mber.php?u=3816

Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(

This post has been edited by Player Lin: 06 January 2018 - 07:51 AM

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#28

View PostPlayer Lin, on 06 January 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

Maybe I understand what you mean, but the problem still exist, if I cannot try it about some minutes, then how to I try to stick on it few hours? I'm not a "forcing play games that I didn't like/no interest" kind of player...

Well, this is going to be long but hey, it will be on topic by the end and who cares anyway? :D

I get it but you know, there are a lot of great games out there that just can't pull you in instantly. The last game like that was Alien Isolation for me: I started out on hard because normal seemed too easy from what I could gather. I hated the game with a passion because the start was very-very slow and easy yet once things started to get interesting I was just crushed by the xenomorph. The damn thing found me everywhere, no matter what I did and I was like "wtf, this is garbage, the thing is just a big wallhack". Then I read up on how the AI works, that when and where it appears is not scripted and basically has a mind of its own, it's very smart and it can find you even randomly sometimes if you've made some mistakes previously (for example you were too loud or got away slowly before so even though you managed to hide and it doesn't know where you are it can still try a few possibilities like looking into hiding spots that are near the last location where it sensed you). That's what hard difficulty unleashes on you: it gets rid of certain AI limitations so you get an intelligent predator that feels like a living creature. "Okay, that is interesting, maybe try experimenting with stuff", I thought to myself and after a few hours of progress constantly trying new things I found myself at a spot where I became a very clever prey. I figured out stuff I would have never got on lower difficulties and it became a super intense game of cat and mouse. When that clicks and you can not only avoid the alien reliably but also lure it out if needed to get rid of guards standing in your way you end up with a masterpiece... and I thought that masterpiece was terrible for hours.

Classic RPGs are kinda the same: Fallout 1 starts slow because you have to build up your character so the game can't really throw anything substantial at you in the beginning. The beginning of Fallout 2 is even worse because you don't only face that limitation but bad game design too: the first segment of the game, the "Temple of Trials" is just terrible and for a first time player it takes around 1 hour to complete (a character with specific skills can avoid that part though but being able to do that is not common). It's combat in a maze, a very long and boring tutorial section that tries to show you what you can do in a very-very "not fun" way. After that you get to Klamath, a very boring town with even more dungeon crawling. Then you get to the Den where the game starts to show its teeth: it's an interesting setting with a nice set of choices, good quests and "fallouty" world building + you get your car and that's when the game really opens up. That's the point where your character can look out for himself so you can explore a large chunk of the settlements, you get to interesting places like New Reno, Gecko and Vault City and it becomes amazing... after 6-8 hours of bad game design and mediocrity.

Fallout 1 starts by a boring old guy telling you that they need a new water chip, then you start the game in a boring cave with rats, you go to the boring town of Shady Sands (well at least if you know the lore Shady Sands won't be that boring because that's where the NCR originates from and you get the vibe that "yeah, these guys are organized and smart, without the raiders they'd really have a chance to get some proper civilization going here"), then Junktown gets interesting and the game gets awesome at the Hub. Compare that to how Fallout 3 starts: character creation is not just a spreadsheet but it's integrated into the gameplay and the story very nicely, from the first minute there is a serious conflict, you get to explore Vault 101, and at the end of the intro Bethesda visually remade the part of F1 when you first see real sunlight.... in F1 that was just a piece of text. Knowing how to start a game in a way that pulls the player in is an art of its own, Bethesda does an amazing job at it while the classic games are pretty much terrible at that if you look at it through modern eyes... but that's not the meat of the game, just an introduction.

Prey 2006 provides a great example that helps in understanding that difference (and hey, we're back on topic! :D). The introduction is just perfect: you meet "real tough guy" Tommy in the bathroom, you have fun in the bar, meet the characters, listen to some awesome music then the aliens come in the full glory of the Doom 3 engine, the conflict gets drawn up quickly and you're good to go. You get a great first impression but the game has not even started yet: you know nothing about the gravity mechanics and the portals, you saw nothing of the game's interesting weaponry or of its "no death" mechanic. Those provide the meat of the game, that's why you stick to it and enjoy it, not because of the nice introduction.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 06 January 2018 - 08:51 PM

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#29

While I agree the Prey 2006 part but the rest just...okay, my English just can't let me explain my opinions better so whatever...

I guess I should go back to enjoy my games, not posting my silly rants...

:P

I'm the guy at 3DRealms Forum...

http://forums.3dreal...mber.php?u=3816

Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(
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#30

View PostZaxx, on 03 January 2018 - 11:09 PM, said:

- Beth is a strong supporter of single player content and in the age of cheaply developed online shooters with loot boxes I can respect that... a lot.
- Beth is constantly publishing FPS titles I'm interested in and most of the time these end up being amazing games I consider modern classics (namely Dishonored, Doom 2016, Wolf TNO and Prey 2017).
- Beth is the only publisher that dared to try bringing back classic online arena shooters with Quake Champions and they are doing it with a business model where even loot boxes get a pass because it's not predatory bullshit and the game will be free-to-play once it's done.
- Even though I hate their RPGs I still can't deny the fact that they offer content with a capital C: the TES and Fallout games are massive, they don't overcharge stuff even though they could and basically only The Witcher 3 can compete with them in content.
I have been playing from their main franchises Fallout and TES with Daggerfall to Skyrim and Fallout 3 to 4, I have noticed a gradual drop in the amount and variety of content and RPG features in their games to the point where it's just frustrating since they become more generic with less stuff to do in them, and feel more like action-adventures than RPGs as a lot of customization was being stripped from them, they really disappointed me with Skyrim and Fallout 4. As for The Witcher I feel those games since at least TW2 far surpass the amount of content in Bethesda's last few games, I feel they are doing more than just merely competing with them. Bethsda became more reliant on people modding and 'fixing' their games to the point where they are now trying to screw them over by taking profits over their hard worked on mods, Bethesda is starting to show change and not in a good way, they are slowly and gradually moving away from what they were well known for. Obsidian did a much better job with New Vegas than Bethesda did with FO4.

Zaxx said:

But most importantly Bethesda has balls which is something I can't say of any other big publisher these days. Those balls sometimes result in the best single player FPS since Half-Life 2 (Doom 2016)
Well that's entirely your opinion, I don't agree at all with HL2 nor Doom 2016 being the best FPS games of their time.

Zaxx said:

And as we all know companies do not like pointlessly losing IPs so they had to "hijack" Prey in order to do something with it. That's just the way it is, you don't let IPs out of your hand.
What? Prey 2 was being worked on and they didn't need to hijack it at all, they clearly just used a name people were familiar with so they could make their completely unrelated game get some notice. They could've given their game a completely different name and then we could've gotten both Prey 2 and this unrelated game. Prey 2 was indeed linked to the first game as you were supposed to play as someone who happened to be on the jet which we saw being abducted, yeah it's more like a spinoff this way but that still makes it linked to it. I was personally looking forward to the original sequel since the whole premise of an open-world game where you play human bounty hunter stuck on an alien world interested me.

This post has been edited by Grand Admiral Thrawn: 06 January 2018 - 10:19 PM

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