[cryptonx]

i CAN'T understand Haters !

IF you hate 3DR or Hate DNF that much why do you even care to post ?

DNF is 3Drealms Property .. its THEIR game .. THEIR FRANCHISE .. they took so long to make it .. but they didn't charge you anything did they ?

if it stayed 40 years in development ! what do you care ? dont want it ? hate it ? its your problem ! just ignore it

It's their own game their own money .. closed down or not .. canceled or not .. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS ! GO PLAY SOME HALO !

The rest of us are trolls who like to stick to 3DR cuz they are going to give DNF for free for Active Forum Members ok ? Leave us alone !

[motionblur]

Easy there, cowboy.

[JamesCassidy]

Hey fellas,

I am new to the forum, but I have been a Duke fan as long as I could remember. I still play Duke Nukem 3D every now and then just to remember the good ole days of gaming.

Anyway, the reason why I am posting is I am a little confused and maybe you guys can help me.

I know 3D realms closed...or so they said....Take-two sued them....I get that as well.

So is 3D realms closed or is it just on hiatus and DNF will be completed later? If anyone can just help me clear it up for me, then I would appreciate it.

I will always bet on Duke till the end of time.

-James.

[naddie]

JamesCassidy, on May 19 2009, 01:15 AM, said:

Hey fellas,

I am new to the forum, but I have been a Duke fan as long as I could remember. I still play Duke Nukem 3D every now and then just to remember the good ole days of gaming.

Anyway, the reason why I am posting is I am a little confused and maybe you guys can help me.

I know 3D realms closed...or so they said....Take-two sued them....I get that as well.

So is 3D realms closed or is it just on hiatus and DNF will be completed later? If anyone can just help me clear it up for me, then I would appreciate it.

I will always bet on Duke till the end of time.

-James.

If I were you, I'd just read the press release. Everything is there.

Cliff notes: Take Two isn't cooperating with 3DR when they needed funds, so 3DR had to let go of their dev team. So now Take Two is suing 3DR for not completing the game. Basically, they are trying to obtain the Duke franchise for cheap, while 3DR is defending themselves.

They are not closed - they just become a smaller studio is all. Right now it's just the owners of the company, no dev team because they cannot fund the project (read: cannot pay the dev team's salaries).

Will we see Duke? Dunno yet. But it is STILL not canceled.

[JamesCassidy]

naddie, on May 19 2009, 01:34 AM, said:

They are not closed - they just become a smaller studio is all. Right now it's just the owners of the company, no dev team because they cannot fund the project (read: cannot pay the dev team's salaries).

Will we see Duke? Dunno yet. But it is STILL not canceled.

I read the press release, which is why I am confused. The press releases are flipping faster than pancakes at IHOP. Every other day a new press says something different.

So 3DR are not really closed, they are just temporarily out of order....or so we hope. DNF might still be released, but it seems that 3DR are trying to find another developer to fund it to which Take-two is throwing a shit fit cause they believe they hold the IP to Duke or they are trying to acquire it. (This is the message I am getting anyway. 3DR still can self release it if they want to.)

3DR seems like they are saying "We rather see this game not published then to let you have it." So they are fighting back.

So Duke is not canceled, but is in development hell at the moment. Also it seems, by what I am reading that the original team that worked on DNF expressed a desire to "co-create" games based on the character in the future...or maybe go back to DNF again if 3DR can get funds.

So hope for DNF still exists, if only right now it is a small hope. It's not canceled just yet. It's on life support, but is not dead yet.

I see, gotcha.

[naddie]

JamesCassidy, on May 19 2009, 01:45 AM, said:

I read the press release, which is why I am confused. The press releases are flipping faster than pancakes at IHOP. Every other day a new press says something different.

So 3DR are not really closed, they are just temporarily out of order....or so we hope. DNF might still be released, but it seems that 3DR are trying to find another developer to fund it to which Take-two is throwing a shit fit cause they believe they hold the IP to Duke or they are trying to acquire it. (This is the message I am getting anyway. 3DR still can self release it if they want to.)

3DR seems like they are saying "We rather see this game not published then to let you have it." So they are fighting back.

So Duke is not canceled, but is in development hell at the moment. Also it seems, by what I am reading that the original team that worked on DNF expressed a desire to "co-create" games based on the character in the future...or maybe go back to DNF again if 3DR can get funds.

So hope for DNF still exists, if only right now it is a small hope. It's not canceled just yet. It's on life support, but is not dead yet.

I see, gotcha.

More or less.

But you really need to read the press release. There's only one. Not a bunch! And it doesn't take a genius to understand it. The English there is plain enough for me to understand, for gods sake! If I can understand it, you can too!

http://www.shacknews...0518_dnf_3dr_.x

[btGrave]

Well, someone from the 3dr developers said that they want to work on DNF for free. And yesterday on the parking there were more than two cars). I think, it could be possible that some devs still working on DNF for free. But it's only my thoughts and of course I can be wrong, but I still hope that is so (I mean they are working now).

[JamesCassidy]

naddie, on May 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

More or less.

But you really need to read the press release. There's only one. Not a bunch! And it doesn't take a genius to understand it. The English there is plain enough for me to understand, for gods sake! If I can understand it, you can too!

http://www.shacknews...0518_dnf_3dr_.x

Well thanks for helping me by calling me an idiot. There hasn;t been one, there has been three maybe four announcements about Duke Nukem in the past 2 weeks. That is alot for that short period of time.

I read it okay...I read it.

Quote

3D Realms Release – Pertaining to Recent Events Surrounding Duke Nukem Forever

Dallas, TX (May 18, 2009) – In light of recent press articles and statements by Take-Two (to the media and in a lawsuit), we want to set the record straight on some issues.

Despite rumors and statements to the contrary, 3D Realms (3DR) has not closed and is not closing. 3DR retains ownership of the Duke Nukem franchise. Due to lack of funding, however, we are saddened to confirm that we let the Duke Nukem Forever (DNF) development team go on May 6th, while we regroup as a company. While 3DR is a much smaller studio now, we will continue to operate as a company and continue to license and co-create games based upon the Duke Nukem franchise.

As some of you may know, Take-Two filed a lawsuit last week containing various accusations and claims against 3DR and the uncompleted DNF game. Take-Two never paid 3DR advances or any signing bonus or any other funds related to DNF, up until July 2008, at which time they paid $2.5m in connection with another agreement for an unannounced game. This is the sum total Take-Two has paid 3DR in connection with DNF. Take-Two claims that they paid $12m to GT Interactive/Infogrames to acquire the publishing rights for the DNF game. To be clear, 3DR was not a party to that transaction and did not receive any money from it. When the DNF game was originally signed with GT Interactive in 1998, GT paid 3DR a $400,000 signing bonus. Up until July 2008, this was the only publisher money we received for the DNF game. Meanwhile, 3DR put over $20m into the production of DNF.

Take-Two retains publishing rights for the DNF game, although 3DR retains certain rights to sell the game directly to the public. Late last year, 3DR began negotiations with Take-Two to provide funding to complete the DNF game. In the meantime, 3DR was hitting mutually-agreed milestones, despite not having a new agreement finalized. Take-Two was well aware that 3DR needed the funding to continue the DNF game development. Suddenly, after months of negotiations, Take-Two materially changed the parameters of the proposed funding agreement. 3DR informed Take-Two that it could not financially afford the changes Take-Two was suggesting and would be forced to release the team if an agreement was not reached. Take-Two made a last minute proposal to acquire the Duke Nukem franchise and the 3DR development team. Take-Two's proposal was unacceptable to 3DR for many reasons, including no upfront money, no guarantee minimum payment, and no guarantee to complete the DNF game. From 3DR's perspective, we viewed Take-Two as trying to acquire the Duke Nukem franchise in a "fire sale." Those negotiations fell through on May 4th, a deal never materialized, and the DNF team was sadly released a few days later.

Less than a week after the DNF team was released, Take-Two filed its lawsuit in New York, seeking immediate temporary injunctive relief. The court denied Take-Two's request for a temporary restraining order. While we cannot comment on the details of the ongoing lawsuit, we believe Take-Two's lawsuit is without merit and merely a bully tactic to obtain ownership of the Duke Nukem franchise. We will vigorously defend ourselves against this publisher.

Is that what you want me to read? I read it three times already. I understand it quite well, but what I am asking is....what does this mean for DNF? Is 3DR still making it or is it going to someone else while 3DR watches over the franchise?

You don't have to be mean and say to me "It is plain English I can read it just fine."

God, this is why I never like to come to forums anymore....

[Spooger]

JamesCassidy, on May 19 2009, 03:09 AM, said:

Is that what you want me to read? I read it three times already. I understand it quite well, but what I am asking is....what does this mean for DNF? Is 3DR still making it or is it going to someone else while 3DR watches over the franchise?

You don't have to be mean and say to me "It is plain English I can read it just fine."

God, this is why I never like to come to forums anymore....

Nobody knows, and anyone who says otherwise is either George Broussard/Remaining 3DR employees, or a liar.

3DR says they're "regrouping" as a company. I guess they're trying to bring things back together, but that will mean a lot of planning, perhaps more mistakes, and a suit they have to deal with -- one in which we still don't have *all* the answers for. For now, DNF is in limbo. It is not being worked on. It is possible that all will work out in the end and 3DR can resume development on DNF, but they'll be behind all over again, and things will take start slowly. I personally doubt that 3DR will send it off elsewhere as, currently, they don't have any funding.

You'll have to do what everyone else is doing and be patient in waiting for answers. DNF's future isn't necessarily grim or good -- it's simple undetermined. Their press release satisfies the curiosity 3DR fans had concerning what exactly happened (though not exaustively) to bring them into their current state, and it does provide a little relief on the DNF side of things in their suggestions that they will fight the suit, retain a few rights of distribution, etc -- but it is not a press release that can give anymore information about DNF's development, as they're really stuck right now in the middle of a lot of bad shit happening.

Hopefully over the next few months we'll learn more about what 3DR is doing to bring their company back on its feet.

[The Count]

StrikerMan780, on May 18 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

Quoted for the fucking truth. Good going man.

Besides, nothing is 100% certain, so shXIII needs to stop spewing mindless verbal diarrhea shit.

Every fanboi here should carefully read Wieder's post on page 2. He sums it up the right way.
Take Two did not cause the bankruptcy of 3DR. The real reasons for that will be revealed eventually but if it's true that Broussard and Miller tried to get fresh money from other sources than Take Two and failed (like Joe Siegler hinted at), then this shows how much trust 3DR are worth in 2009.
Soo, development time is NOT irrelevant. Time marches on. DNF ist the project of a game company, done for profit, done for the financial basis of an ongoing company. It cannot be treated or worshipped as the life time project of some guys sitting in their private bedroom and fumbling upon a TC that may eventually be released for fun or not.
A modern ambitious shooter has to be done within a couple of years before the tech base gets old. So put up a time table and install work discipline.
And it requires a big team. So go hire finally enough people like other companies do.
When will GB ever learn to organize work that way ?

[crunchysuperman]

Nice to have an official statement, but I really don't see how this changes things. They still don't have a development team. Getting a whole new team up to speed will cause them to miss yet another window, not to mention the delays this lawsuit will cause.

[X-Vector]

There is also the matter of 3DR not mentioning anything about continuing development on DNF in the future, they're just saying that they "will continue to operate as a company and continue to license and co-create games based upon the Duke Nukem franchise".
This could mean that they'll only take on a supervising role a la Prey, on some as yet unknown and possibly smaller scale Duke Nukem project(s).

Considering that Take2 still holds the publishing rights to DNF, that 3DR currently don't have the means to fund a full-blown development team and that the DNF name has now been badly tarnished, I don't see things quite as rosy as some others around here and the 3DR board.

[crunchysuperman]

I will give them credit for coming through this once. They said they'd make a statement "soon" and they actually did!

Hey, it's a start, I suppose.

[Raziel]

ShXIII, on May 18 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

Wrong..... STOP BEING SO BLIND TO THE FACTS!!!! Take two offered to take the original development team TO ACTUALLY FINISH THE GAME. 3DR said no its there fucking fault the developers lost there job and DNF once again gets the inevitable delayed

Maybe you should actually look at the facts before posting crap. Would you honestly be retarded enough to agree to a proposal where you don't actually get any additional funding but you lose the entire Duke IP (which is worth millions) and on top of that your entire development team with no guarantees that the game will be finished? Now I'm not the most diplomatic person this world has seen, but I would personally tell them to go fuck themselves because there is something very wrong with this deal if you ask me...

[Altered Reality]

Quote

So hope for DNF still exists, if only right now it is a small hope. It's not canceled just yet. It's on life support, but is not dead yet.

This reminds me of a similar situation in 1999, when Prey entered development hell. Thus, I'm expecting DNF not to be released before 2016.

[Raziel]

Altered Reality, on May 19 2009, 04:56 AM, said:

This reminds me of a similar situation in 1999, when Prey entered development hell. Thus, I'm expecting DNF not to be released before 2016.

LOL, I'm not sure that counts, Prey ended up getting made by an entirely different studio on an entirely different engine... From the leaked gameplay video I severely hope it gets completed by the same people on the same engine, or released as beta electronically. While I really doubt it would actually happen it is an interesting idea right? 3D Realms has permission to distribute electronically, if they do electronic pre-orders now with an instant download of the DNF beta (and eventually the full version when it gets done) they would screw over Take-Two quite badly. Of course when it gets finished Take-Two will get the retail channel, but I think this would actually be a smart move and would guarantee all the funding they need for completion - not to mention that their electronic sale system would be up and running and lots of people would already be familiar with it at that point.

[Alhexx]

Wieder, on May 19 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

Take 2 was never obligated to fund DNF so they can't be in the wrong for voluntarily choosing to not fund DNF no matter how much we'd really really like to see it.

They may be in the wrong with the lawsuit, but it was 3DR's responsibility to find funding however they could and nobody else. It is Take 2's right to change the terms at the last minute, that's the nature of business... this is why contracts exists and why if it's not in a contract, you can't base the entire future of your company on it, and even then you better have some backup plans.

Take 2 may have not behaved the way we would like, but it is NOT Take 2's fault that 3DR is down to nobody and DNF is likely toast.

I don't know how the US laws handle such agreements, but since I had some economic education at school a few years ago, I can say that in Germany the case looks a little different.

Assuming that what 3DRealms said in their press release is true, so there was a verbal agreement on the development plan between Take2 and 3DRealms, then this agreement is binding - even if it is not written down on a piece of paper. This is what is called a "hand-shake contract" in Germany. So if there was an agreement on the development of DNF (milestones, funding, etc.) between both parties then Take2 would have commited a "breach of contract" by changing the rules at last minute. Of course, the problem is that without a written contract it is nearly impossible for 3DRealms to prove that such an agreement exists and what exactly the agreement stated.
But technically, for breaking such a verbal agreement, Take2 would be pretty screwed in Germany - assuming that 3DRealms can prove that such an agreement was broken...

X-Vector, on May 19 2009, 12:16 PM, said:

There is also the matter of 3DR not mentioning anything about continuing development on DNF in the future

I think they did not mention their plans regarding DNF as they do not know anything definite yet...

[Redcard]

Alhexx, on May 19 2009, 05:52 AM, said:

But technically, for breaking such a verbal agreement, Take2 would be pretty screwed in Germany - assuming that 3DRealms can prove that such an agreement was broken...

We have similar rules over here.. however, we're all assuming that 3DR is telling the truth in their press release.

And remember.. everyone insists this is NON FUNDED by T2.

So if 3DR is meeting milestones, then runs out of money, and can't meet their next one because they have no money.. than it's NOT Take2 that breached the contract. It's 3DR. It's 3DR that broke the handshake agreement.

You're not owed money just because you are meeting some other agreement unless the agreement says money is owed.. and 3DR explicitly says money wasn't owed.

I don't see how failure to plan and spend money responsibly on the part of 3DR makes Take2 worthy of such intense hatred.

[MusicallyInspired]

But I thought it was a deal that never materialized. So there was no handshake.

[Redcard]

MusicallyInspired, on May 19 2009, 06:12 AM, said:

But I thought it was a deal that never materialized. So there was no handshake.

Well, it's clear that there was an agreement.. both sides stipulate that there was an agreement.

[dino]

Alhexx, on May 19 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

I think they did not mention their plans regarding DNF as they do not know anything definite yet...

But since the restraining order was denied 3DR should be free to work on it if they want to. So if they still have some manpower left I think they'll invest that in DNF. Other than that we will have to wait what this 'regroup' does and if they can get money to get some of the old staff back.

[peoplessi]

The original contract had the publisher pay 3D Realms $6million USD upon completion of the game. Maybe they tried to negotiate that sum to be given before hand?

[X-Vector]

Alhexx, on May 19 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

I think they did not mention their plans regarding DNF as they do not know anything definite yet...

I think the wording is important; 3DR aren't talking about developing Duke games, they use the terms "licensing" and "co-creating".
This is what to me suggests a situation comparable to Prey, in that 3DR take on a conceptual and supervising role and farm out the actual development to an outside team.
They would not need a large staff for this and could keep cost and risk to a minimum.

Then again, there is also the possibility that the company is currently kept alive in name only because of legal and financial reasons.

[Kristian Joensen]

peoplessi, on May 19 2009, 04:06 PM, said:

The original contract had the publisher pay 3D Realms $6million USD upon completion of the game. Maybe they tried to negotiate that sum to be given before hand?

Correction:

That should read "The original contract had the publisher pay Atari $6 Million USD upon completion of the game". Not 3D Realms and that original deal WAS re-negotiated to $4.25 Million right away.

[hornoxe]

X-Vector, on May 19 2009, 05:10 PM, said:

I think the wording is important; 3DR aren't talking about developing Duke games, they use the terms "licensing" and "co-creating".
This is what to me suggests a situation comparable to Prey, in that 3DR take on a conceptual and supervising role and farm out the actual development to an outside team.
They would not need a large staff for this and could keep cost and risk to a minimum.

The problem there would be that the publisher isn't funding development, 3DR has no money to fund it, so if they'd "farm it out" they'd need to find a developer that can fund developement themselves and that doesn't seem very likely, even less one of those that also would be intersted in finishing someone else's game. Unless they split the IP or something drastic like that as incentive.

[Kit]

Well the sites dead, and there's a little message:

"This domain has just been registered for one of our customers!
Domain registration and webhosting at best prices."

[Master Fibbles]

I have no problems.

[X-Vector]

Probably cache related; I had the same problem this morning, but clicking a link to a specific forum post "fixed" it.

Hmmm, right now the forums work for me but the main 3DR page doesn't load and has a non-3DR icon in the URL bar.

[Woodensword]

X-Vector, on May 19 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

There is also the matter of 3DR not mentioning anything about continuing development on DNF in the future

dino, on May 19 2009, 05:20 PM, said:

But since the restraining order was denied 3DR should be free to work on it if they want to. So if they still have some manpower left I think they'll invest that in DNF. Other than that we will have to wait what this 'regroup' does and if they can get money to get some of the old staff back.

I think they DO say about continuing development on DNF...

Quote

"although 3DR retains certain rights to sell the game directly to the public"

IMO that's an intention to finish DNF (if they can-they still have the lawsuit) and bypass TakeTwo to directly sell the game to us....
Remember that the whole lawsuit and deal with Take Two is about DNF and not other duke games

[shiranui]

The site and forums are gone. News please!