[keiron]

Hi

There are 4 multiplayer levels listed on this page: Duke Caribbean: Life's a Beach


I've never seen them before and cannot find any videos of them on YouTube. Could anyone be so kind as to record some video or post some screenshots of these maps?

Cheers

[Jimmy]

Why don't you just load the maps through the in game menu?

[Hendricks266]

If you play Caribbean using EDuke32, episode 2 should be Vacation Dukematch. You may need the level warp cheat to see more than VACADM1.MAP.

Spoiler: They're sections cut from other maps.

[keiron]

Jimmy, on 15 July 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

Why don't you just load the maps through the in game menu?

I'm not sure I even own it any more.

[Lunick]

Island Hopping



Hidden Grotto



Cruise Ship



The Docks



All by Charlie Wiederhold (although the last map doesn't have any official credit)

[keiron]

Thank you!

[icecoldduke]

I liked the cruise ship map for deathmatch. I was never a fan of the island hoping map.

[PokeThePower]

Hendricks266, on 15 July 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

Spoiler: They're sections cut from other maps.

• Island Hopping - This is built from scratch, but that's not saying much. Might rank as my #1 worst released map in my opinion, followed shortly by The Docks.
  
• Hidden Grotto - This is also from scratch, though I can see why it would seem to be pulled from SP. I was jealous of Robert getting to make his two caves maps. I wish I had decorated it up more, I really liked this one. For some reason I was overly fixated on the purity of using like 3 or 4 textures total (not counting pickups/SEs). If you know of specific geo from the SP map that it was pulled from let me know because I'd like to have my memory corrected if that's the case.
  
• Cruise Ship - Totally not ripped from Wavemistress. I don't know what you're talking about. Ok maybe a little.
  
• The Docks - It could be said this is *very* loosely based on the two dock areas in Market Melee, but only just barely. I wish I had done some overhangs.

They were all whipped out in obscenely short time (couple of hours in the case of Island Hopping/Docks for example). I don't think we had MP maps as part of our agreement with WizardWorks but I didn't like the idea of releasing it without at least something.

My biggest regret is not making an MP specific version of Alien Remains that connects the back two key card areas in a nice loop back around to the hallway right after the intro elevator, along with removing the barriers (window overlooking the two keycard slot for example).

[Hendricks266]

Yeah my memory is shite. Island Hopping is clearly not based on the maps. Hidden Grotto always reminded me of a similar section in Voodoo Caves though it's been probably a decade since I played Caribbean's campaign. I seem to think The Docks feels like a section toward the end of Caribbean Catastrophe.

[Lunick]

The Docks was the only map that lacked your initials, Wieder

[PokeThePower]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least... I was probably distracted by a certain set of MP3s.

[Lunick]

I shouldn't bother you any further but one other map in the expansion has no signature/name to it and it is the secret level, A Full House. Should I assume the same thing happened like The Docks?

[necroslut]

Lunick, on 18 July 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I shouldn't bother you any further but one other map in the expansion has no signature/name to it and it is the secret level, A Full House. Should I assume the same thing happened like The Docks?

[,,,]

Shitpost but I fucking love Full House. Probably my very favorite map of the Duke expansions.

[PokeThePower]

Lunick, on 18 July 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I shouldn't bother you any further...

Is never a bother.

Lunick, on 18 July 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

...but one other map in the expansion has no signature/name to it and it is the secret level, A Full House. Should I assume the same thing happened like The Docks?

necroslut, on 18 July 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

Shitpost but I fucking love Full House. Probably my very favorite map of the Duke expansions.

My memory says that map was Shawn Swift's, with some minor adjustments by myself, and Robert Travis doing a lighting/texturing improvement pass similar to but not as extensive as he did to Market Melee (MM changed the style away from a low tech wooden/dirt island style to more modern buildings/concrete tourist area). However my memory of what exactly happened with Full House could be faulty.

When checking the credits to make sure I wasn't crazy about Shawn being part of the project I was reminded of Bill Buchalter. I can't for the life of me remember what his involvement was.

[Lunick]

NeverSawFreeWilly, on 18 July 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

My memory says that map was Shawn Swift's, with some minor adjustments by myself, and Robert Travis doing a lighting/texturing improvement pass similar to but not as extensive as he did to Market Melee (MM changed the style away from a low tech wooden/dirt island style to more modern buildings/concrete tourist area). However my memory of what exactly happened with Full House could be faulty.

When checking the credits to make sure I wasn't crazy about Shawn being part of the project I was reminded of Bill Buchalter. I can't for the life of me remember what his involvement was.

I also have been unable to assign Bill to any of the maps from Caribbean. I recently went through Cryptic Passage and was able to see that he did have a signature for maps but I'm not good at recognising styles. I have these as the credits to each map from Caribbean:

Quote

Caribbean Catastrophe - Robert Travis
Market Melee - Charlie Wiederhold
Mr. Splashy's - Robert Travis
The Wavemistress - Charlie Wiederhold
Lost Lagoon - Robert Travis
Voodoo Caves - Tyler Larsen
The Alien Remains - Charlie Wiederhold
A Full House - ???

[PokeThePower]

It's probably safe to plug Shawn in for Full House unless/until one of them complains, heh. My best guess for Bill is he started a map that Robert wound up doing the bulk of the work on, or was cut... or maybe he started Full House and Shawn finished, etc. Honestly don't know. For some reason back then I had a hard time getting on with Shawn and I'm pretty sure I was the problem... but it means my memory of what he was up to is pretty foggy.

EDIT: I think this is "our" Shawn, yeah?
http://www.mightymic...ts/proton-pack/

[Lunick]

That's definitely him, I think I remember looking him up for some other map related thing and seeing the Ghostbusters stuff I'll send him a polite email.

[Marphy Black]

For what it's worth, Shawn did not list Caribbean as one of the Sunstorm add-ons he contributed levels to on his old website, and that looks to be a thorough account of his work up to that point. There are screenshots of an unknown Duke map "that was not used in any commercial products", but that statement is presumably accurate and the map itself entirely unrelated.

[PokeThePower]

That's either an indication we changed Full House more than I remember and thus he didn't want to claim it anymore... or it was Bill's map and Shawn is the mystery mapper with no work to justify the reason for being listed as an LD. Will be curious if Lunick gets a reply. I was about to email Shawn until I saw Lunick's post.

[Lunick]

Ugh, it sucks that most of the images are gone from those archive links.

Edit: Wow, I got an email back already! Shawn mentions that he left Sunstorm before Caribbean began development. He suggests to contact Robert (he has no details for him) but also thinks that Robert might have also made the level.

[Hendricks266]

Is anyone interested in doing some investigative outreach for a Shadow Warrior expansion? Asking for a friend.

[PokeThePower]

Lunick, on 18 July 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

Edit: Wow, I got an email back already! Shawn mentions that he left Sunstorm before Caribbean began development. He suggests to contact Robert (he has no details for him) but also thinks that Robert might have also made the level.

That would make him being in the credits at all very odd... there weren't many of us and Tony Campiti wouldn't normally just include him for no reason. Have to take Shawn at face value though and assume it's a Bill map that Robert and I finished. It's definitely not a straight up Robert map as it would be very out of character of him to not put his signature in there, as well as all the oddly shaped doors/keycard scanner sprites.

My memory is still it being a map Shawn handed off, but I'll take Shawn saying he didn't do it over my memory.

[Jimmy]

Maybe Tony was just giving him a free credit to put on his resume?

[PokeThePower]

I'd be very surprised at Tony giving something like that away for nothing. If he did I'd think it was because of something such as an agreement to not pay for work in exchange for a credit or whatever. I wouldn't have been happy about putting someone in the credits (since I typed them) if they hadn't done anything though so I'm skeptical still.

If Tony and I are ever chatting about that time he can tell you about my final payment when I left for Ritual.

Without any additional documentation/Robert/Tony around to clarify more it's Bill's map now!

While trying to scrounge up info on all of this last night I ran across Market Melee (and Mr. Splashy's) being used in Grezzo 2. Laughed my head off.

[MetHy]

Necro posting but I would like to know if a conclusion was ever reached regarding the author(s) of Full House? From what was said ITT I suppose it can only be Bill's but knowing for sure would be good.

I'm wondering if Wieder was mixing up with Cryptic Passage's library when saying the map was started by Shawn Swift and polished by Robert Travis.

This being said, as a guess I would also have attributed this map to Shawn but it's very hard to tell especially if there are indeed several mappers involved. The fact that none of the secret places are tagged and other missing details like that also tell me the map was made more quickly than others (which seemed to be a running theme with secret levels at Sunstorm then). It's a great map though.

The Gothic Library also has an issue with its secrets count but I don't know if that's a real clue or not.

[Phredreeke]

Were there anyone working at Sunstorm at the time known not to put signatures in their maps?

Multiple maps in Route 66 lack a signature as well.

[MetHy]

Regarding Route 66 level designers, I can tell you that Scott Haslam and Ryan Isenberg have sigs in some of their other projects maps, but their sigs don't appear in any R66 level.

[NNC]

necroslut, on 18 July 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

Shitpost but I fucking love Full House. Probably my very favorite map of the Duke expansions.

I actually wanted to say the same. Full House is amazing, my third favourite after Alien Remaining (which is a wonderful map, albeit it would work better without the caribbean clad monsters and that sea matress thing) and Lost Lagoon. It's a map that would even work in Shrapnel City for example, so Dukish. And the mood of the caribbean evening on the casino was so right.

Btw. Wieder, why don't you build more maps for Duke? You had the talent really. For the 25th anniversary for example. Maybe even Robert should return from the cave where he has been hiding in the last 20 years.

EDIT: Fucking necropost.

[NNC]

MetHy, on 10 November 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

Necro posting but I would like to know if a conclusion was ever reached regarding the author(s) of Full House? From what was said ITT I suppose it can only be Bill's but knowing for sure would be good.

I'm wondering if Wieder was mixing up with Cryptic Passage's library when saying the map was started by Shawn Swift and polished by Robert Travis.

This being said, as a guess I would also have attributed this map to Shawn but it's very hard to tell especially if there are indeed several mappers involved. The fact that none of the secret places are tagged and other missing details like that also tell me the map was made more quickly than others (which seemed to be a running theme with secret levels at Sunstorm then). It's a great map though.

The Gothic Library also has an issue with its secrets count but I don't know if that's a real clue or not.

I think it's Robert Travis. The elevators, the toilets, the underwater segments, the octabrain segments all cry for Travis.

Really, just compare the karaoke bar segment with the aquariums on the side to Smithsonian's Living ocean. They are totally similar in style, even the keycard colour is the same in the pool.

[MetHy]

Those toilets have oversized doors and they glitch out by crossing other sectors when opened. I don't think those are RT's but I could be wrong. Like I said, there are clues that indicate this map wasn't as polished as the rest.

As for the rest, RT was lead level designer so his influence must have reached beyond the maps he started or worked on. This being said you have a point about the karaoke's aquarium, even the way you reach the backarea is reminiscent to the way you reach the aquarium's control room in Smithsonian, with a semi hidden switch on the side of a wall.