[icecoldduke]

Zaxx, on 20 July 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

That's from the GOG version, BloodGDX is not based on that one.

BloodGDX is based on a fuck ton of stolen code. That's enough for a lawsuit. Obfuscation will not save him from Warner bros or Atari. Its really easy to remove obfuscation. Even without symbol names its easy to prove hes using stolen code. The only thing saving him is the fact he lives in Russia.

[icecoldduke]

Zaxx, on 20 July 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

That's from the GOG version, BloodGDX is not based on that one. M210 basically needs two things:

- an original 1.0 copy (we don't know if he has one)
- the EULA that came with the original 1.0 version to not say a thing about reverse engineering (I've not seen that one so I don't know what it says)

Hes using stolen code. That violates US and International copyright laws. The EULA doesn't matter.

[J432]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

Obfuscation will not save him from Warner bros or Atari.

They do not care at all about this ancient game. We could have already official ports, sequels, remakes etc. if they did.

[icecoldduke]

J432, on 20 July 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

They do not care at all about this ancient game. We could have already official ports, sequels, remakes etc. if they did.

My counter to that statement is, Devovler and Jace Hall saying Atari wants a whole bunch of money for the Blood IP. Just because the IP holders havent tried to sue you guys in the past, doesn't mean they won't try and sue in the future.

[axl]

icecoldduke, on 19 July 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

I thought the same thing at one point in my life and it bit me in the ass.

I don't want to interfere in the discussion as I have no knowledge about copyright laws in the US. But just out of curiosity: if I may ask, what did you do and what did you encounter?

[gordon81]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Hes using stolen code. That violates US and International copyright laws. The EULA doesn't matter.

Are you a original dev member?,

M210 is only helping to sell more copies of the game to GOG and Steam = Infogrames, Atary are richer with a port that makes it easier to play obsolete games on original copies on DRM platforms like steam.

What seems to me a shame is that you talk about stolen code when Infogrames-Atari or Warner are reselling their products without any support through an application like Dosbox that is free and they surely do not pay anything to use it to resell obsolete products .

Moral or not legal or legal I do not care.

I just want to enjoy this game like I could not do it twenty years ago.

Thank you M210 for bring back Blood in all his glory.

Greetings.

[J432]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

Just because the IP holders havent tried to sue you guys in the past, doesn't mean they won't try and sue in the future.

Maybe you should offer them help as legal advisor. Seems that you could be better in it than in programming.

[icecoldduke]

axl, on 20 July 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

I don't want to interfere in the discussion as I have no knowledge about copyright laws in the US. But just out of curiosity: if I may ask, what did you do and what did you encounter?

I'm not going to derail this thread with my life story. If you know my name, the issue at hand comes up on google.

gordon81, on 20 July 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

Moral or not legal or legal I do not care.

I'm not saying don't enjoy his port, just don't claim his port is legal. That's all .

[Zaxx]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

My counter to that statement is, Devovler and Jace Hall saying Atari wants a whole bunch of money for the Blood IP. Just because the IP holders havent tried to sue you guys in the past, doesn't mean they won't try and sue in the future.

I think WB is not relevant here as Blood is published by Atari to this day... and we all know Atari won't come after a project like this. They don't care, the game is 20 years old, there is nothing to protect here, it's not worth the money to pay a lawyer.

[J432]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

I'm not saying don't enjoy his port, just don't claim his port is legal. That's all .

gordon81 says that he just does not care. Me too. And you should not care much as well, IceColdDuke, as you are not representative of Atari so it is not your concern.

[fgsfds]

Zaxx, on 20 July 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

- the EULA that came with the original 1.0 version to not say a thing about reverse engineering (I've not seen that one so I don't know what it says)

It sure does.

The question is not if BGDX is legal or not (it's obvious that it's not), but does Atari care enough to do something about it? They never shut down CM, which looks much worse from their perspective (at least I think so), so they probably won't come after BGDX either.

Attached File(s)

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[Zaxx]

fgsfds, on 20 July 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

It sure does.

The question is not if BGDX is legal or not (it's obvious that it's not), but does Atari care enough to do something about it? They never shut down CM, which looks much worse from their perspective (at least I think so), so they probably won't come after BGDX either.

If I remember correctly back in the day Atari even gave permission to the Transfusion devs, letting them use assets from the game.

Anyway I'm not trying to prove that what M210 is doing is legal, I was just trying to orientate myself and look for grey areas to try and explore potential holes (I'm a lawyer, that's what we do). You can do this with most old software, for example a guy could legally reverse-engineer the original Prince of Persia because the EULA just let him do it but guess Blood has better protection as it's a later title. And if the code is stolen and it's easy to prove then that's it, the stuff is illegal.

However I still strongly believe that Atari does not give a fuck.

[J432]

fgsfds, on 20 July 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

It sure does.

The question is not if BGDX is legal or not (it's obvious that it's not), but does Atari care enough to do something about it? They never shut down CM, which looks much worse from their perspective (at least I think so), so they probably won't come after BGDX either.

And even if they cared it would be very hard/costly to achieve anything in case of M210 because of his location.

[icecoldduke]

Does anyone know the back story on the leaked Blood source code?

J432, on 20 July 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

And even if they cared it would be very hard/costly to achieve anything in case of M210 because of his location.

This I agree with.

[sirlemonhead]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

Does anyone know the back story on the leaked Blood source code?


This I agree with.

Yes. And the person isn't very happy at all that the leak happened.

[Hendricks266]

Zaxx, on 20 July 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

Sure but reverse-engineering is generally legal

You are ignorant of reality. Read this:

Hendricks266, on 25 June 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

deuxsonic, on 25 June 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Reverse-engineering something for the purposes of compatibility is legal I believe so I think you're okay. Good luck.

For compatibility or interoperability, yes. But keep in mind that the act of reverse engineering is not the same as distributing the copyrighted result. Your printer example is totally irrelevant.

Zaxx, on 20 July 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

That's what I call camaraderie. Anyway joking aside I don't think it matters as now it's obfuscated and it would need a certain amount of caring from Atari to get to the bottom of it. An amount they clearly don't have.

BloodGDX Internet Defense Force pls go.

fgsfds, on 20 July 2017 - 03:53 AM, said:

It says exactly this.

Quote

You may not decompile, modify
reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reproduce the Software except
as expressly allowed by us.

EULAs are unenforceable. However, what it says does not matter: distributing reverse-engineered material is still copyright infringement due to how copyright works.

Zaxx, on 20 July 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

That's from the GOG version, BloodGDX is not based on that one. M210 basically needs two things:

- an original 1.0 copy (we don't know if he has one)
- the EULA that came with the original 1.0 version to not say a thing about reverse engineering (I've not seen that one so I don't know what it says)

You are incredibly wrong. Take a moment to sit your ass down and quit talking about things you know nothing about.

[J432]

Would not be better to lock this thread? Seems to me it does not lead anywhere except of useless flame war.

[Fantinaikos]

This thread is designed to take every opinion, also the stupid ones and the "my personal coded port have a dick bigger than the your" ones. The important thing is that no one come to ruin the release news and the bug segnalation threads with this kind of crap.

[icecoldduke]

J432, on 20 July 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Would not be better to lock this thread? Seems to me it does not lead anywhere except of useless flame war.

It turns into a flame war because m210's supporters go crazy everytime someone says something negative about BloodGDX.

[J432]

Fantinaikos, on 20 July 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

This thread is designed to take every opinion, also the stupid ones and the "my personal coded port have a dick bigger than the your" ones.

Well, I guess this hot discussion is driven in most part by this, although it is somewhat hidden.

Fantinaikos, on 20 July 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

The important thing is that no one come to ruin the release news and the bug segnalation threads with this kind of crap.

Yes, fortunately.

[J432]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

It turns into a flame war because m210's supporters go crazy everytime someone says something negative about BloodGDX.

Well, that "someone" is almost always you with some little support from Hendricks266. Problem is that you are repeating the same things so this discussion runs in circles.

[Dr_Proton]

J432, on 20 July 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Well, that "someone" is almost always you with some little support from Hendricks266. Problem is that you are repeating the same things so this discussion runs in circles.

+1

[axl]

sirlemonhead, on 20 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Yes. And the person isn't very happy at all that the leak happened.

I'm intrigued and confused here. I believe TerminX said a source code from a year before final release was leaked. I assume this is not the famous publicly available "alpha leak" ?

Can you elaborate more on this ? Or is it a kind of secret?

[icecoldduke]

axl, on 20 July 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

I'm intrigued and confused here. I believe TerminX said a source code from a year before final release was leaked. I assume this is not the famous publicly available "alpha leak" ?

Can you elaborate more on this ? Or is it a kind of secret?

The source code is about 10-12 months before the final release. It's not that hard to find either.

[Hendricks266]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

The source code is about 10-12 months before the final release.

February 1996.

[Jimmy]

>implying WB/Atari/whoever even gives enough of a fuck to lob a lawsuit at some random Russian guy reverse engineering a game that came out twenty fucking years ago

They honestly can't even give a definitive answer on who owns what concerning Blood. They don't care. Nothing will ever happen.

[Devon]

Jimmy, on 20 July 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

>implying WB/Atari/whoever even gives enough of a fuck to lob a lawsuit at some random Russian guy reverse engineering a game that came out twenty fucking years ago

They honestly can't even give a definitive answer on who owns what concerning Blood. They don't care. Nothing will ever happen.

I think i agree with you on this.

However sometimes the reason why companies do these damn copyright lawsuits is to show everyone where the line is so nobody else tries it with their other games.

It doesnt have to profit them in this case but in the long run it probaly does in some fashion or another.

Damn can we stop this legal shit storm flood already?
Makes me paranoid... hope he gets most of this done before those bastards tries anything lol

[icecoldduke]

Devon, on 20 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Hope he gets most of this done before those bastards tries anything lol

Me too.

[Devon]

icecoldduke, on 20 July 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Me too.

Will it really be that much harder to reach him because he is in Russia?
Also wouldnt it take some time before they became aware of this, and even longer before they have everything together to damn it all to hell?

[icecoldduke]

Devon, on 20 July 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

Will it really be that much harder to reach him because he is in Russia?
Also wouldnt it take some time before they became aware of this, and even longer before they have everything together to damn it all to hell?

To my knowledge they can't get him in Russia(they can't get Snowden, so I doubt they can get M210). If he was state side, he would be playing with fire. The only thing that could happen, is Warner Bros or Atari shutting down any US server hosting his work, and remove any youtube videos pertaining to his work. That's probably about it.