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What do you think about BloodGDX ?

User is offline   Manhs 

  • 16

#1

Hello, i don't know what kind of topic we can create here but the admin can remove it if it's not needed.

I wanted just say thank you for this awesome port, even in beta now, more options, good render and very smooth, it makes the game so enjoyable, a very good thing for the new players who want try blood!
I have refinished the original game without the autoaim and it was really interesting to play with this option, for the projectiles, it's really cool but harder with the tommygun and the shotgun ^^
I hope There won't be some problem with the copyright of the sourcecode even if it's reverse engineered.... because it's our last hope to have a good port!
It could be cool if multiplayer will be really a possibility and maybe some options like no friendly fire in coop, but it will be for later, in the future, but for now, it's still very cool!

All the fans behind you man (or team?), thanks so much for it! :D
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User is online   axl 

  • 139

#2

View PostManhs, on 20 June 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Hello, i don't know what kind of topic we can create here but the admin can remove it if it's not needed.

I wanted just say thank you for this awesome port, even in beta now, more options, good render and very smooth, it makes the game so enjoyable, a very good thing for the new players who want try blood!
I have refinished the original game without the autoaim and it was really interesting to play with this option, for the projectiles, it's really cool but harder with the tommygun and the shotgun ^^
I hope There won't be some problem with the copyright of the sourcecode even if it's reverse engineered.... because it's our last hope to have a good port!
It could be cool if multiplayer will be really a possibility and maybe some options like no friendly fire in coop, but it will be for later, in the future, but for now, it's still very cool!

All the fans behind you man (or team?), thanks so much for it! :D


Just want to add my 2 cents... Regardless the (possible) legal issues, I greatly appreciate the work M210 has done. We had to wait 20 years, but somebody stepped up and did something what nobody did before...
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User is offline   J432 

  • 6

#3

No need to worry about legal issues. There is no source code released by M210 and I doubt copyright holders will reverse engineer BloodGDX to find if there is zero breach of copyright in such an old matter. Plus Alexander is not in the US and possible legal action would surely be very difficult. Also players still need Blood game for BloodGDX so what could copyright holders lose? I guess they can only gain as now probably more people will be interested in the game that properly works on modern computers and sales on GOG or Steam will increase. Anyway, it is a shame that source was never released and it took so long to make port which I think is great.

This post has been edited by J432: 20 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

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User is online   Loke 

  • 600

#4

Best thing since sliced bread.
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User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,309

#5

View PostJ432, on 20 June 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

No need to worry about legal issues. There is no source code released by M210 and I doubt copyright holders will reverse engineer BloodGDX to find if there is zero breach of copyright in such an old matter. Plus Alexander is not in the US and possible legal action would surely be very difficult. Also players still need Blood game for BloodGDX so what could copyright holders lose? I guess they can only gain as now probably more people will be interested in the game that properly works on modern computers and sales on GOG or Steam will increase. Anyway, it is a shame that source was never released and it took so long to make port which I think is great.

Everything you said about legality behind m210's work is bullshit. Atari or whoever owns the ip now, can send him a c&d anytime. Doesn't matter if he used the leaked code or not(even though there is a good chance he did), the ip holders can ask him to stop anytime.

The question is, will m210 fight a c&d if it comes to that.

PolymerRTX
PolymerRTX github
ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 20 June 2017 - 02:50 PM

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User is offline   J432 

  • 6

#6

Of course they can send c&d anytime (they can send anything to anybody) and he can happily ignore it. :)

This post has been edited by J432: 20 June 2017 - 03:46 PM

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User is online   Jim 

  • 28

#7

lol M210 is in Russia. We don't need to worry about any of the legal stuff. Russia and China are completely immune to that stuff
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User is offline   J432 

  • 6

#8

But Americans could send bomber jets as is their custom of solving most problems in the world. Or maybe Comey will investigate it when he gets promised asylum from Putin. :D

This post has been edited by J432: 21 June 2017 - 12:14 AM

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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 6,155

  #9

I am glad that BloodGDX is based on reverse engineering instead of recreation, the approach taken by some other efforts like ZBlood and Blood EX. I am also glad to see EDuke32's engine put to good use.

I disagree with several of the technical decisions made in its construction, but they don't seem to get in the way of the project working and being enjoyed by users.

While M210 may be located in Russia, his site is provided by Duke4, Duke4 is hosted in France, and the site is owned by Americans. Keep that in mind when brushing off legality concerns due to jurisdiction.
2

User is offline   Psycho87 

  • 31

#10

View PostHendricks266, on 20 June 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

I am glad that BloodGDX is based on reverse engineering instead of recreation, the approach taken by some other efforts like ZBlood and Blood EX. I am also glad to see EDuke32's engine put to good use.

I disagree with several of the technical decisions made in its construction, but they don't seem to get in the way of the project working and being enjoyed by users.

While M210 may be located in Russia, his site is provided by Duke4, Duke4 is hosted in France, and the site is owned by Americans. Keep that in mind when brushing off legality concerns due to jurisdiction.


Are you still working on your own Blood-related project?
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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 6,155

  #11

View PostPsycho87, on 20 June 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

Are you still working on your own Blood-related project?

Yes.
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User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,309

#12

View PostHendricks266, on 20 June 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

While M210 may be located in Russia, his site is provided by Duke4, Duke4 is hosted in France, and the site is owned by Americans. Keep that in mind when brushing off legality concerns due to jurisdiction.

Couldn't agree more with this. I also strongly disagree with pretty much every technical decision M210 has made thus far. He choose not to use eduke32. He choose to use Java(seriously why?). He hides his code and says hes going to create some bullshit sdk for people to work with. I'm less annoyed with him not releasing code(since there is a good chance hes using the leaked code and may want to avoid legal issues that take this project to a new level on legal issues). As you might have noticed I don't like his project :). That being said no one should disregard the legal issues that come from a project such as this.

PolymerRTX
PolymerRTX github
ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 20 June 2017 - 04:36 PM

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User is offline   Manhs 

  • 16

#13

Is java bad to reverse-engineering compared to what can be done with some other "way ?
Eduke32 BloodCM had a lot of limits in the animations, physics and stuff, was it possible to do better actually ?
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User is offline   J432 

  • 6

#14

View Posticecoldduke, on 20 June 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Couldn't agree more with this. I also strongly disagree with pretty much every technical decision M210 has made thus far. He choose not to use eduke32. He choose to use Java(seriously why?). He hides his code and says hes going to create some bullshit sdk for people to work with. I'm less annoyed with him not releasing code(since there is a good chance hes using the leaked code and may want to avoid legal issues that take this project to a new level on legal issues). As you might have noticed I don't like his project :). That being said no one should disregard the legal issues that come from a project such as this.


You don't need to like Alexander's project and he can make his own decisions regardless of your opinion. I'm just player that want better experience of Blood on modern computers than with DOSBox and BloodGDX even in current uncomplete stage is much better than anything that similar (and now usually defunct) projects for Blood with tons of promises and often useless discussions produced for over 20 years. Many other players are satisfied too as you can find in various forums on the net where BloodGDX is discussed. If you do not like it, you can produce something better for Blood or just talk about it another 20 years, whatever. I just hope that most people on this site will not be as hostile towards BloodGDX as you, otherwise I believe it would be better for Alexander to look for better place for his project.

This post has been edited by J432: 20 June 2017 - 05:27 PM

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User is offline   Manhs 

  • 16

#15

Same for me, i'm happy to have a BLOOD port who can load fan expansions, good render, smoother than the original, noautoaim option ect.... and more later (multiplayer) and he is still working a lot on it.
Now it's done so we must do with it and im happy something was made since all this time or the fact we could have never seen a port for BLOOD even in 2020 (there was some teasing by jace hall but i suppose, it was just for nostalgic things).

But maybe there was such a big issue It means it could have been so much better? 0,768 is very good for a beta (even some older versions without the voxels).

I think too, he is allowed to do what he wants for his own project, people are free to do what they want for modding, but it could be interesting to know what we have missed...just because i'm curious about the possibilities to make a BLOOD port.
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User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,309

#16

View PostManhs, on 20 June 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

Is java bad to reverse-engineering compared to what can be done with some other "way ?
Eduke32 BloodCM had a lot of limits in the animations, physics and stuff, was it possible to do better actually ?

Its easier to reverse engineer Java code, then it is to reverse engineer code generated by a C++ compiler. Even if you choose to use obfuscation protection.

PolymerRTX
PolymerRTX github
ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 20 June 2017 - 05:41 PM

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User is offline   M210 

  • 477

#17

View Posticecoldduke, on 20 June 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

He choose to use Java(seriously why?).


Why are you did't ask me before, when I used eDuke32's con-scripts for make BloodCM? :))
Because I want so....any question?

Btw, Java gave me the opportunity to fix some bugs in the polymost. In c++, it would take you a week to just find this bug ... using Java, I was able to find it in 10 seconds, because I can make changes while program is working

Did you know that palette #15 in Blood is a bug of c++, which ignores errors like "ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException". The same can be said about unexpected mistakes, like those when you shoot from shotgun and you get tesla death of enemy.

My port sometimes crashes with "ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException", because I ported it from c++ and in c++ this error is ignored and the game tries to work further, generating new bugs.

Also, I do not want to waste time yo compiling my port after every change or experiment. In java, I can just make a change and see the result in 1 second. I've been working on the project for about 1 year, but if I worked with c++, I would have achieved the same result only after 2 years .... maybe that's why projects like BloodXL have not been released yet? They are just still being compiling :))

Sorry for Google Translate, I hope you understood me


This post has been edited by M210: 20 June 2017 - 10:36 PM

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User is offline   fgsfds 

  • 180

#18

What exactly is the problem with Java? From the developer's perspective there are many great things like an ability to make changes to the code in real time and cross-platform support. It might be slower than a compiled language, but is this really a problem for a 20 years old game? From what I can see, BGDX doesn't have any problems with the loading times or fps.

This post has been edited by fgsfds: 20 June 2017 - 10:59 PM

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User is online   TerminX 

  • el fundador
  • 5,444

  #19

I don't have any problem with Java... I think it's a bit of an odd choice for something like this, but obviously the result works and the lower performance isn't an issue. What bugs did you find in Polymost?

EDuke32 wiki svn builds bugs
Join us in #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!
1

User is offline   M210 

  • 477

#20

View PostTerminX, on 20 June 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

What bugs did you find in Polymost?

Are you remember bounced animated sprites bug in Blood? It was also in eDuke32, but later we a correct this in ART files in BloodCM...but drawsprite method has this code:
case 0: //Face sprite
...
...
sx0 -= fx*(float)xoff; if (tsizx&1) sx0 += fx*.5;
sy0 -= fy*(float)yoff;


sy0 doesn't correct texture position like sx0, therefore I just added it
sx0 -= fx*(float)xoff; if (tsizx&1) sx0 += fx*.5;
sy0 -= fy*(float)yoff; if (tsizy&1) sy0 += fy*.5;


But I didn't know where I should look for this bug, so I did the changes in realtime and analyzed a renderer changes I found it very quickly :)


This post has been edited by M210: 20 June 2017 - 11:41 PM

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User is online   Tekedon 

  • 48

#21

Here is what I think. I don't care what programming language is used, the end result is what I care about. The result so far is marvellous. This port has the small things that makes Blood what it is, those small touches which are hard to pinpoint. But it feels like blood, plays like blood, looks like Blood. So I'm satisfied.
3

User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,309

#22

My problem with Java is with the runtime; its the biggest backdoor for spyware and viruses on the planet. I refuse to install it on my computer. I would be willing to bet a lot of other people feel the same way. You could have easily gone Mono .NET and got the same level of quality of runtime checks, that you get in Java. I don't want to get into a "Java isn't shit" conversation, because Java does have its purpose in a network backend environment(simply because Java has some good libraries that .NET doesn't have yet).

Because you choose Java, you will have a smaller userbase. This sucks from my view because apparently your work is spot on with the original game.

PolymerRTX
PolymerRTX github
ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 21 June 2017 - 12:03 AM

2

User is online   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 6,155

  #23

View PostM210, on 20 June 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

Are you remember bounced animated sprites bug in Blood? It was also in eDuke32, but later we a correct this in ART files in BloodCM...but drawsprite method has this code:
case 0: //Face sprite
...
...
sx0 -= fx*(float)xoff; if (tsizx&1) sx0 += fx*.5;
sy0 -= fy*(float)yoff;


sy0 doesn't correct texture position like sx0, therefore I just added it
sx0 -= fx*(float)xoff; if (tsizx&1) sx0 += fx*.5;
sy0 -= fy*(float)yoff; if (tsizy&1) sy0 += fy*.5;


But I didn't know where I should look for this bug, so I did the changes in realtime and analyzed a renderer changes I found it very quickly :)

Thanks for the bug report. I put together a fairly comprehensive test for offsets and I don't see anything wrong in Polymost, even though we have not made the change you did here. In fact, making the change causes Polymost to fail the test. (Polymer gets everything wrong, hehe.) Could you share a picture demonstrating the bug?
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User is offline   M210 

  • 477

#24

View Posticecoldduke, on 21 June 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

its the biggest backdoor for spyware and viruses on the planet.

It's more like a phobia than a real problem. I think you need to afraid of visiting porn-sites instead of installing JRE :)

Quote

Could you share a picture demonstrating the bug?

I think picture will not get information about this bug...I made a video with it :)
At first part of video I disabled " if (tsizy&1) sy0 += fy*.5; " from renderer and after that you will see bouncing sprite. Then I enable it back and problem is fixed :)



eduke32 r6213 also has this bug, you can check it...tilenum is 506, tiles001.art from Blood


This post has been edited by M210: 21 June 2017 - 02:59 AM

2

User is offline   M210 

  • 477

#25

wtf my video was deleted? o_O Stupid youtube..
http://m210.duke4.ne...es/polymost.avi


This post has been edited by M210: 21 June 2017 - 03:38 AM

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User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,309

#26

View PostM210, on 20 June 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

sx0 -= fx*(float)xoff; if (tsizx&1) sx0 += fx*.5;
sy0 -= fy*(float)yoff; if (tsizy&1) sy0 += fy*.5;


Your math doesn't seem solid on this one. I could see how halving sy0 might fix this specific issue, but as Hendricks said I think it would cause more fuckage elsewhere.

PolymerRTX
PolymerRTX github
ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 21 June 2017 - 07:49 AM

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User is offline   M210 

  • 477

#27

I think you would not have written it, if you knew whats mean tsizy&1
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User is offline   Nokiaman 

  • 9

#28

View PostJ432, on 20 June 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

You don't need to like Alexander's project and he can make his own decisions regardless of your opinion. I'm just player that want better experience of Blood on modern computers than with DOSBox and BloodGDX even in current uncomplete stage is much better than anything that similar (and now usually defunct) projects for Blood with tons of promises and often useless discussions produced for over 20 years. Many other players are satisfied too as you can find in various forums on the net where BloodGDX is discussed. If you do not like it, you can produce something better for Blood or just talk about it another 20 years, whatever. I just hope that most people on this site will not be as hostile towards BloodGDX as you, otherwise I believe it would be better for Alexander to look for better place for his project.


Well said! I am glad someone finally made working port after all the time.

CPU : Intel Core i7-3770S
GPU : Nvidia GeForce GTX 980
RAM : 8GB DDR3
OS : Windows 10 Pro 64bit
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User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,309

#29

View PostM210, on 21 June 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

I think you would not have written it, if you knew whats mean tsizy&1

Can you explain your logic more?

PolymerRTX
PolymerRTX github
ICED Shadow Warrior Port
https://crozzbreed23...site.com/icedsw
0

User is offline   M210 

  • 477

#30

Yes I can, but...
Если текстура не кратна 2, ее невозможно разделить на 2 без остатка и соответствен но, невозможно правильно выровнять по центру меша, поэтому применяется смещение на 0.5 текселей, таким образом текстура принимает симметричное положение относительно меша и тексели занимают все пиксели по обе стороны текстуры.


This post has been edited by M210: 21 June 2017 - 10:45 AM

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