[Forge]

icecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 04:16 AM, said:

LeoTCK the bigger question is how much longer do you want to wait for this other data?

When it's done

[LeoTCK]

icecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 04:16 AM, said:

LeoTCK the bigger question is how much longer do you want to wait for this other data? Based on what little I know of DK, I would argue you guys should work with what you have, and finish up the gaps your way. I think you guys will make it a better product.

You're assuming I want to wait for the other data. Just like you, I want it to get done and given my own efforts to track down many contacts, I think it's unlikely at this point in time, to recover more. Just like Unreal PSX, even though there was still one guy who had to share his data and who's contact went away, or simply stopped caring enough, I had to decide to work on it and finish the gaps and basically like about 10 map parts have to be created from scratch. It won't always have the professional quality, but it's getting done.

If you want percentage then its adding content in many cases so its hard to guess, but if I once claimed that about 70 percent of all maps were recovered, then given the amount of maps in the project, which was really a lot, perhaps more than in the original unreal and maps were split into parts..then the rest has to be filled up. And there were made extra weapons and items, as extra and stuff mentioned in design docs but never made in practice or only started on. So on top of it all, we have the finished implantgun (which lacked its model and was tied only to singleplayer with some engine hacks necessary), then we have weapons/items like impaler, stunner, chameleon heart, turrets etcetera and many new monsters, some of them new acording to design docs, some of them coming from beta versions of unreal. The implantgun model also comes from an alpha version of Unreal due to lack of any original mesh, but reworked in a way that you wouldn't notice it wasn't intended for it at all with custom skin and everything (I worked on the skins myself).

Of course I had to settle in for some things like, for the lack of model files (even though they are shown on a screenshot of characters) custom skins normal unreal models, loosely based on the looks of the character models from the screenshot and it works just fine. In fact those models had very different feel than those in regular Unreal and given that this is a mod/expansion pack now and not a whole game on playstation, it fits the regular universe much more. Special care was also applied for tying the unreal psx story not just with the regular Unreal lore a little more but also the Unreal novels, where weapons like Impaler and Stunner were featured despite being cut from the regular game. So, I had to make many compromises, while ensuring the integrity of the thing and squeezing the maximum out of it.
EDIT: I realize it might sound like adding bullshit on top of everything like stuff from "novels" which many people didn't even know about. Thing is, the story of unreal psx took inspiration from the novels as well and the source material, including the story about the AIs designed by an ancient race and the backstory of the Inuit Corporation which originally played a bigger role and Unreal PSX expanded upon that while also kind of branched off in a way spinoffs do...

[Forge]

You've been convoluting and mixing up topics for awhile now.

I thought DK was a shadow warrior addon, not a psx unreal mod.

So which is it?

[Nokiaman]

He always starts talking about the UPSX mod for some reason. It confused me too following this thread..

[icecoldduke]

What's the upsx mod?

[LeoTCK]

That's the project I'm working on. I recovered all the files(that are out there) by hunting down all contacts/developers and getting permissions. It took me many many years. I came across DK as part of trying to recover something by a side of upsx, the unreleased/unfinished addon Steele Dawn for Unreal where Crista made one map for.

Naturally, I'm comparing the process.

And what was recovered for it and by how many people that shared the files. Files for DK were shared by only two persons. Back when I started recovering Unreal PSX files nobody believed there would be more found. Or that more existed and argued with similar arguments like you guys do.

I was often ridiculed, people also didn't believe the game existed at some point or made screaming comments on youtube of it being all-fake. It started all the way back in 2009 with one of the designers coming to the community with my aid and releasing his personal versions of the levels he worked on.

Kinda like when Wieder once released his WD maps separately. But different, because these levels were already ported/reworked from the originalos which used different packages and many of the original things stripped off.

Basically this was a start for the hunt and I managed to contact nearly all the people who worked on the game, minus two level designers who couldn't be contacted anymore (the famous dr.sleep and a guy who shared name with PCP developer but wasn't him - Jakub Kisiel).

There were about 11 level designers on the project and I spoke to 9 of them, no kidding.

There were some people who I didn't know the full names of and I couldn't contact those unfortunately. There were also a couple of internal members working inhouse who I knew names of, but couldn't find any working contact for anymore.

In 2013 I released the demo of the rework but it's merely a taste of what the full project is, although the levels in the demo are "final" and the rest is basically episodic releases.

[Forge]

I'm not ridiculing you because I doubt there's the possibility that there might be more files for DK somewhere as of yet undiscovered.
I'm ridiculing you because you won't stop arguing about it - as if one lucky find instance while searching for old lost games files equates the same thing in every instance.

That, and this is a DK thread, but you won't stop talking about your own project - which you should start your own thread for, and make your updates there.
No offense, but I come here to check on what's new with DK, and I have to wade through 23 posts of your psx bragging before I can find a relevant DK post.

[LeoTCK]

I was simply explaining in more detail so you get the grasp on the full story and why I think this way. Because I've heard the same arguments before and then they were proven to be false. And I do give benefit of doubt to the people who said it was finished and personally I'll take that for granted because in each case it was so and it was right after the fact, not x years into the future. Especially when it was being posted as news on their website most probably and then the other websites referenced it.

I've read that you plan to include the silencer uzis from the 96 beta in here...I don't think that's a good idea for DK because of the unique DK Ninja sprites and all would have to be upgraded to carry the silencers, unless the silencer would be an upgrade but that requires modification to the source code...

I think the silencer uzis would be better reserved for a separate project (I myself toyed with that idea).

So, what's up with the DK story? Does it exist on the web archive still then?

EDIT: And honestly if icecoldduke didn't ask what it is I wouldn't have made the previous post. Sure I mentioned it in the other posts but I just wanted to get you the full picture without realizing I didn't actually give it.

[Hendricks266]

LeoTCK, on 05 June 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

So, what's up with the DK story? Does it exist on the web archive still then?

Yes, Hawke found the DK "story".

https://web.archive....c/licensed.html

Quote

You are Tensi Yoka (No-Wang to your friends), baby sister of the famous Shadow Warrior.

You arrive at your family dojo to find your grandmother and mentor (Tensi DiYoka) has been attacked and has fallen ill to a unknown ailment. She is dying, and the one thing that can save her, the Sacred Golden Monkey of Din Chi has been stolen.

You must search out the status of the Golden Monkey. Only its mystic Monkey Shine (the art of reflecting moonlight off of it's forehead) can heal your grandmother.

During your search for the sacred monkey, you find that the Zilla Corporation, the Shadow Warriors arch nemesis, has captured D-Cup, your best friend from school and they are holding her in hopes to keep you at bay. Worse yet.. its they who attacked and destroyed your dojo, poisoned your Grandmother, and posse the Golden Monkey.

You must win back the Golden Monkey, rescue your friend and stop the Zilli Corporation from destroying the world. All this and make it back in time for the Prom. Not a problem, for you are 69th Generation of Shadow Warrior, the Deadly Kiss..

This thing is borderline incoherent (not to mention inconsistent with other established SW plot), and the team is treating it like a draft of the plot. At least parts of it are reflected in the data: the art has frames for "D-Cup" similar to Lara Croft in SW, and there is a place where a voice quote is supposed to play in the first level which would make sense to be the grandmother, kind of like Master Leep (the mapper even made Lo Wang say his Master Leep quote at this point iirc).

[TerminX]

For fuck's sake, that story is awful.

[Hendricks266]

The FEM would like to have a word with you.

http://hendricks266.duke4.net/databases/anm/duke3d/nwinter/introduction/NWLOGO_281.png

[TerminX]

Well, at least the quality is consistent.

[LeoTCK]

I didn't find Twin Dragon story to be that good either and the maps are the least good of all three expansions in many ways.

That page didnt even list Twin Dragon. I remember that though when it was out for a CD release the company Castle Music Productions were responsible for a new soundtrack. But we never ever got the CD with Twin Dragon in the first place.

Were there any other addons to be planned?

I think this story is workable as long as its altered a little more with the SW lore.

[Hendricks266]

LeoTCK, on 06 June 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

I remember that though when it was out for a CD release the company Castle Music Productions were responsible for a new soundtrack.

I remember a few of us looked into this and I don't believe any music was done for TD.

LeoTCK, on 06 June 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

Were there any other addons to be planned?

Just the three.

LeoTCK, on 06 June 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

I think this story is workable as long as its altered a little more with the SW lore.

I agree.

[LeoTCK]

There just wasn't a response from them though. It could have started production but not finished though.

[Jimmy]

TerminX, on 05 June 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

For fuck's sake, that story is awful.

My favourite part is that SillySoft seemed obsessed with the phrase "Monkey Shine" because that also appeared as an episode name in Duke!Zone 2

[Hendricks266]

Marphy Black, on 28 August 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Is it confirmed that Twin Dragon is actually missing a soundtrack, though? Simon Castles is only listed in Twin Dragon's credits as "Sound F/X", not specifying music. The original Twin Dragon readme, the original Wylde Productions site, and the original Level Infinity site all also do not mention the inclusion of any new music. The first mention (and, as far as I can tell, the only source) of "music by Castles Music Productions" made in relation to Twin Dragon is this 2005 Wikipedia edit on the Shadow Warrior article. The original Castles Music Productions site does list Twin Dragon under projects as "Head Composer and Sound Designer", but unfortunately, it still doesn't specify that Twin Dragon received new music. For example, Secrets of the Acropolis does have new MIDI tracks, but that Quake 2 Red Rover mod doesn't have any new music. I checked CMP_Game_Music_Demo.mp3 (more here), but I don't have a point of reference to determine where these samples may originate from.

Lunick, on 28 August 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

I went on a wild goose chase for the Twin Dragon music earlier this year and managed to contact one of the people behind Castles Music Production. Sadly, he didn't know anything about it and the only person who would know was his wife. I was unable to get any information about her though which is where my journey ended.

Suppose I should add, the guy's name was Adam Bonello. The other two people that I found on the now defunct website either didn't reply to me (probably wrong email) or are not on the Internet anywhere. I also contacted the people who wrote the article about Simon and they had no idea as well.

[icecoldduke]

TerminX, on 05 June 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

For fuck's sake, that story is awful.

Yes it is. Why did they choose to make the main character female in DK? While it's interesting, I guess I'm not seeing the big picture of the original idea.

[LeoTCK]

Quake 2 Red Rover was not conceived as commercial project originally though (afaik). I think it was even lower profile than Steele Dawn in practice and for that I beieve no music was planned either.

So yes there was indeed "Head Composer" listed. SW couldn't have had midi files so it was only on elusive cd release and that didn't come out.

[LeoTCK]

icecoldduke, on 06 June 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Yes it is. Why did they choose to make the main character female in DK? While it's interesting, I guess I'm not seeing the big picture of the original idea.

Some of the promotional art for deadly kiss was also beyond awful like the one where she stretches her eye out...

[Lunick]

LeoTCK, on 06 June 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Some of the promotional art for deadly kiss was also beyond awful like the one where she stretches her eye out...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akanbe

[icecoldduke]

LeoTCK, on 06 June 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Some of the promotional art for deadly kiss was also beyond awful like the one where she stretches her eye out...

I just feel the whole DK concept wasn't flushed out. I'm hoping your wrong about there being more DK content, then what you guys already have. The less original DK content you have, the more gaps you guys will have to fill in, and frankly, the project will be better off for it.

[LeoTCK]

Promotional art and the promo story is one thing and the actual game/feel is another. Many of those maps are really amongst the best in the expansion pack genre for SW. TD was a composure of some good ideas and half baked maps, while WD had a big scope but imo fell down with some of its linear/unfinished levels(at least they had that feel to it).

The mapping in DK is largely consistent and only the first map feels somewhat odd and out of place. The rest there are tons of outside big areas and it's fun to explore.

[Player Lin]

I'm not sure female player character is bad idea, but that plot just weird and inconsistent with original SW plot...but at least it still related Zilla Corporation so I think it still not too weird at all...

If she's badass as her brother or like Bombshell(?) then I would love that. :P

[LeoTCK]

Hendricks266, on 06 June 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

Dude that mp3 file! I know where it's from. It's from an unpublished expansion pack for Unreal Tournament. They wanted to go retail with it. There was a demo released and an afterthought demo, one of them got lost forever, the version that was intended for showcase for Epic.

I do recognize one of the tracks in there at least from that. Then there's music which sounds a bit like SW but has UT sounds over it...that wasn't used in the demos, but who knows. This is all a bit confusing.

EDIT: But I suspect the last part doesn't come from it at all, I hope that wasn't for TD because it sounds too silly.

[icecoldduke]

Player Lin, on 06 June 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

I'm not sure female player character is bad idea, but that plot just weird and inconsistent with original SW plot...but at least it still related Zilla Corporation so I think it still not too weird at all...

My general point was, in my opinion, paying for a ADR session to rerecord all of Lo Wangs audio with a female actress, was not worth the cost back then. They should have just focused on gameplay. Fast forward to now, I think having a female main character will not be a bad thing. Evan will be able to find someone to re-record all of Lo Wangs audio and even add some new lines, so that will be great. I'm just saying I think it was a bad choice back in the 90's when this project was being worked on, and I'm sure had a limited budget.

[LeoTCK]

icecoldduke, on 06 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

My general point was, paying for a ADR session to rerecord all of Lo Wangs audio with a female actress, was not worth the cost back then, in my opinion.

And, don't forget what was recovered didn't have the audio lines. For UPSX (Okay Im really sorry), there was voice lines for the player character recovered but not for the other main chars. I didn't end up using it as I didn't have the name of the voice actor so I can't credit him. And indeed recording the lines of the other chars(at least they were written down) would be too much hassle.

So right now the DK restoration team WANTS YOU to pay for the audio lines. :P

[Player Lin]

Okay, I get your point, icecoldduke.
Because if the gameplay/maps sucks, nobody would give a shit about the characters and plot...


I'm just TOO silly to afraid if the restoration team decide to remove or change anything about the main character...but you actually mean the past so I guess I'm overreacting...

[Tea Monster]

What exactly needs doing with the project to get it ready to release (as a complete episode, that it is). What is missing from the file you have? What work needs to be done?

[TerminX]

Lots of it. The new enemies are pretty bad (only the ninja is acceptable), there are no new weapon frames of any kind other than mspaint-level nail polish additions, there's no voice acting, etc. The maps are playable from start to finish but still need polish. I would recommend that anyone interested in ever playing a final product someday not seek out and dig through what was leaked, if only because you'll spoil what really matters (the gameplay).