[TheZombieKiller]

icecoldduke, on 19 June 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

If we can get those models released(if they exist) I'll immediately start working on FBX support in Polymer/Polymost.

While FBX is decent at best (remember that it's intended for transferring data between Autodesk applications, nothing more) for a one-time import, it's very much a bad idea for the primary skeletal model format in the context of modding, where backwards compatibility is a highly important factor. FBX is a format that has had considerable changes over each iteration, to the point where each version is generally going to be incompatible with any other. I would strongly advise against using it here.

I'd recommend a more modding-friendly format such as IQM. There are others, but that one's my personal recommendation.

[icecoldduke]

TheZombieKiller, on 21 June 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

While FBX is decent at best (remember that it's intended for transferring data between Autodesk applications, nothing more) for a one-time import, it's very much a bad idea for the primary skeletal model format in the context of modding, where backwards compatibility is a highly important factor. FBX is a format that has had considerable changes over each iteration, to the point where each version is generally going to be incompatible with any other. I would strongly advise against using it here.

I'd recommend a more modding-friendly format such as IQM. There are others, but that one's my personal recommendation.

For model import support I was thinking of using the asset import library so you guys could have a wide variety of formats to choose from. It parses FBX 2012/2013 models, and most FBX exporters give you the option to export a FBX version. I'm not a big fan of IQM, I've worked with that format in the past with idTech 3 projects, and the current exporters for IQM are terrible to say the least. I was thinking of creating a command line exporter(I think I did that for PolymerNG), that would use the asset import library and could export to a simpler format the engine could use.

What do you think?

[Hank]

icecoldduke, on 21 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

For model import support I was thinking of using the asset import library so you guys could have a wide variety of formats to choose from. It parses FBX 2012/2013 models, and most FBX exporters give you the option to export a FBX version. I'm not a big fan of IQM, I've worked with that format in the past with idTech 3 projects, and the current exporters for IQM are terrible to say the least. I was thinking of creating a command line exporter(I think I did that for PolymerNG), that would use the asset import library and could export to a simpler format the engine could use.

What do you think?

I think, do what ever works best for you! If you are comfortable introducing FBX, then so be it. All my software uses FBX.

[Ninjakitty]

Do you think maybe you could make it so that ghosts that don't get up after a coolie explosion stay visible? (they disappear after an explosion)

You might also want to add support for upside down voxels/models.
Sprites can be turned upside down, but their voxel replacements don't turn upside down.

(I THINK these are both bugs that the game already had)

[Striker]

TheZombieKiller, on 21 June 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

While FBX is decent at best (remember that it's intended for transferring data between Autodesk applications, nothing more) for a one-time import, it's very much a bad idea for the primary skeletal model format in the context of modding, where backwards compatibility is a highly important factor. FBX is a format that has had considerable changes over each iteration, to the point where each version is generally going to be incompatible with any other. I would strongly advise against using it here.

I'd recommend a more modding-friendly format such as IQM. There are others, but that one's my personal recommendation.

My personal recommendations are:

• SMD - Well-documented and is a text-based format that's easy to read, has all the features one could need, and has plenty of good exporters and support since it's what's used to compile GoldSRC and Source Engine models. Models with animation would be two files, one is the "reference", meaning the actual mesh and skeleton itself, and the second is an SMD with only the skeleton and the animations of said skeleton, used for controlling animation. Useful for using the same animations on multiple models. Here's some useful links: SudioMDL Data Documentation Sauerbraten's SMD Reader
• DAE - These are essentially structured .XML files. Supports most of the same features as SMD such as skeletal animation, vertex weights, and so on, but all animation is self-contained. It also has one advantage: Vertex Colors. Loading is a pain in the dick though without a library like Assimp, because it's needlessly complex, but unlike FBX, the format is never gonna change.

[Mblackwell]

Exporting FBX from Blender is a fucking pain in the ass. Import moreso. Most other formats are just a couple of boxes ticked.

Edit: One advantage to SMD is iirc Valve maintains a toolset for applications like Blender. For both SMD and DMX.

Edit2:
https://developer.va.../Studiomdl_Data
https://developer.va.../wiki/DMX_model

[icecoldduke]

The Open Asset Import Library supports the following formarts(including SMD).

• Autodesk ( .fbx )
  
• Collada ( .dae )
  
• glTF ( .gltf, .glb )
  
• Blender 3D ( .blend )
  
• 3ds Max 3DS ( .3ds )
  
• 3ds Max ASE ( .ase )
  
• Wavefront Object ( .obj )
  
• Industry Foundation Classes (IFC/Step) ( .ifc )
  
• XGL ( .xgl,.zgl )
  
• Stanford Polygon Library ( .ply )
  
• *AutoCAD DXF ( .dxf )
  
• LightWave ( .lwo )
  
• LightWave Scene ( .lws )
  
• Modo ( .lxo )
  
• Stereolithography ( .stl )
  
• DirectX X ( .x )
  
• AC3D ( .ac )
  
• Milkshape 3D ( .ms3d )
  
• TrueSpace ( .cob,.scn )
  
• Biovision BVH ( .bvh )
  
• CharacterStudio Motion ( .csm )
  
• Ogre XML ( .xml )
  
• Irrlicht Mesh ( .irrmesh )
  
• Irrlicht Scene ( .irr )
  
• GAME FILE FORMATS
  
• Quake I ( .mdl )
  
• Quake II ( .md2 )
  
• Quake III Mesh ( .md3 )
  
• Quake III Map/BSP ( .pk3 )
  
• * Return to Castle Wolfenstein ( .mdc )
  
• Doom 3 ( .md5* )
  
• *Valve Model ( .smd,.vta )
  
• *Open Game Engine Exchange ( .ogex )
  
• *Unreal ( .3d )
  
• OTHER FILE FORMATS
  
• BlitzBasic 3D ( .b3d )
  
• Quick3D ( .q3d,.q3s )
  
• Neutral File Format ( .nff )
  
• Sense8 WorldToolKit ( .nff )
  
• Object File Format ( .off )
  
• PovRAY Raw ( .raw )
  
• Terragen Terrain ( .ter )
  
• 3D GameStudio (3DGS) ( .mdl )
  
• 3D GameStudio (3DGS) Terrain ( .hmp )
  
• Izware Nendo ( .ndo )

[Mblackwell]

So your idea is a multi-step process to get an asset into the game? Vs something like SMD with one-click export?

[Striker]

About ICD's idea of a conversion tool: I don't like the idea of having an external tool to convert formats into another format that won't be supported by anything other than the engine/not being supported by existing modeling programs.

Also, with SMD, you wouldn't need another library like assimp (which is bulky), see the implementation in sauerbraten I linked before.

[Mark]

How things change. It wasn't that long ago when this subject came up here and FBX was the "go to" format.

Unfortunately for me, whatever new format is used will relegate me to making only static prop models because of my lack of patience/inability to learn a modern modelling program for skeletal anims.

[Hank]

Mark., on 21 June 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

How things change. It wasn't that long ago when this subject came up here and FBX was the "go to" format.

Still is. It's the dominant format; and it is not married to a specific game engine. So is Collada b.t.w., and it works with Blender, just tested it.

But, as for this project, I'm still waiting for mouse support, or have I missed the update?

[Forge]

Hank, on 21 June 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

But, as for this project, I'm still waiting for mouse support, or have I missed the update?

No.
Still no full mouse support.
And polymer causes crashes - which snowball (mostly due to see-through-to-the-other-side portals & similarly tagged sos). The farther into the game you get, the more frequent crashes occur until the game is crashing so much it's unplayable.
I can't even finish the first episode.

[Master O]

icecoldduke, on 21 June 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

The Open Asset Import Library supports the following formarts(including SMD).

• Autodesk ( .fbx )
  
• Collada ( .dae )
  
• glTF ( .gltf, .glb )
  
• Blender 3D ( .blend )
  
• 3ds Max 3DS ( .3ds )
  
• 3ds Max ASE ( .ase )
  
• Wavefront Object ( .obj )
  
• Industry Foundation Classes (IFC/Step) ( .ifc )
  
• XGL ( .xgl,.zgl )
  
• Stanford Polygon Library ( .ply )
  
• *AutoCAD DXF ( .dxf )
  
• LightWave ( .lwo )
  
• LightWave Scene ( .lws )
  
• Modo ( .lxo )
  
• Stereolithography ( .stl )
  
• DirectX X ( .x )
  
• AC3D ( .ac )
  
• Milkshape 3D ( .ms3d )
  
• TrueSpace ( .cob,.scn )
  
• Biovision BVH ( .bvh )
  
• CharacterStudio Motion ( .csm )
  
• Ogre XML ( .xml )
  
• Irrlicht Mesh ( .irrmesh )
  
• Irrlicht Scene ( .irr )
  
• GAME FILE FORMATS
  
• Quake I ( .mdl )
  
• Quake II ( .md2 )
  
• Quake III Mesh ( .md3 )
  
• Quake III Map/BSP ( .pk3 )
  
• * Return to Castle Wolfenstein ( .mdc )
  
• Doom 3 ( .md5* )
  
• *Valve Model ( .smd,.vta )
  
• *Open Game Engine Exchange ( .ogex )
  
• *Unreal ( .3d )
  
• OTHER FILE FORMATS
  
• BlitzBasic 3D ( .b3d )
  
• Quick3D ( .q3d,.q3s )
  
• Neutral File Format ( .nff )
  
• Sense8 WorldToolKit ( .nff )
  
• Object File Format ( .off )
  
• PovRAY Raw ( .raw )
  
• Terragen Terrain ( .ter )
  
• 3D GameStudio (3DGS) ( .mdl )
  
• 3D GameStudio (3DGS) Terrain ( .hmp )
  
• Izware Nendo ( .ndo )

While all of this sounds great and will certainly be in the future, shouldn't the main priority be getting the main game and its 2 add-ons fully working first?

[Kyanos]

Master O, on 21 June 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

While all of this sounds great and will certainly be in the future, shouldn't the main priority be getting the main game and its 2 add-ons fully working first?

Like voxels in Polymer

[Forge]

Master O, on 21 June 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

While all of this sounds great and will certainly be in the future, shouldn't the main priority be getting the main game and its 2 add-ons fully working first?

[Master O]

Forge, on 21 June 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

How is it nonsense? There are still bugs and crashes. You yourself just said:

Forge, on 21 June 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

No.
Still no full mouse support.
And polymer causes crashes - which snowball (mostly due to see-through-to-the-other-side portals & similarly tagged sos). The farther into the game you get, the more frequent crashes occur until the game is crashing so much it's unplayable.
I can't even finish the first episode.

[Hank]

Master O, on 21 June 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

How is it nonsense? There are still bugs and crashes. You yourself just said:

Forge was being cynical. It's a joke/reminder on ICD not on you.

[Forge]

Master O, on 21 June 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

How is it nonsense? There are still bugs and crashes. You yourself just said:

And here I thought we were on the same page.

[icecoldduke]

Master O, on 21 June 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

While all of this sounds great and will certainly be in the future, shouldn't the main priority be getting the main game and its 2 add-ons fully working first?

Of course that's the main goal. My point was, those original models look fucking awesome and I would love to see those assets in game. Which is why I would shift my priorities a bit if those assets were released to the community .

[Forge]

[Ninjakitty]

icecoldduke, on 21 June 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Of course that's the main goal. My point was, those original models look fucking awesome and I would love to see those assets in game. Which is why I would shift my priorities a bit if those assets were released to the community .

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be getting the originals...
They were made by Chuck Jones, but he doesn't even have most of his own renders on his site: http://www.chuckejon...m/3drealms.html Which kinda makes it seem like he doesn't still have the models. (I don't know who else might have them)

I'm not saying we won't be able to get any new models at all, just that they would probably have to be made by the community...

[Master O]

Forge, on 21 June 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

And here I thought we were on the same page.

Guess I missed the joke, then. Epic phail on my part.

[Hank]

Forge, on 21 June 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

more like ...

Master O, on 21 June 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

Guess I missed the joke, then. Epic phail on my part.

If it makes you feel any better, it took me years to catch on to duke4 language, and still learning as I go.

[Ninjakitty]

It seems not even Duke Nukem has gotten it's original models...

However, I searched threads for more information, and it seems like no one even tried to contact Chuck to ask him if he had any models.

So, I've sent him an email on his site asking if he had any Shadow Warrior models. No idea if I'll ever get a response, but the worst thing that could happen is for him to say no.

[icecoldduke]

I took a crash fix from the latest eduke32 branch(https://forums.duke4...645#entry280645), its now in the depot.

[Spiker]

If it was going to support obj model format can I use notepad for modeling?

[Ninjakitty]

icecoldduke, on 22 June 2017 - 04:34 AM, said:

I took a crash fix from the latest eduke32 branch(https://forums.duke4...645#entry280645), its now in the depot.

That crash may just be the crash we were experiencing.
I'll try going through the first two episodes again to see if I can get it to happen.

[icecoldduke]

Spiker, on 22 June 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

If it was going to support obj model format can I use notepad for modeling?

Absolutely not. You have to use a typewriter instead. Please make sure you get your asset typed out in time; you have to give the post rider enough time to get the asset over to Evan's house, so we can use it in our game.

Ninjakitty, on 22 June 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

That crash may just be the crash we were experiencing.
I'll try going through the first two episodes again to see if I can get it to happen.

Let me know, it would be nice if it was .

[Tea Monster]

The models were in some weird thing called Animation Master. He may have the models, and not be able to open them as he no longer has the soft. I may be wrong, but it looks like he used some procedural textures on the models, which would make it doubtful that you could do a straight-export to Blender or Max, even if you had the original soft to work with.

Still worth an ask though. I'm sure we'd find a way.

[Hank]

Tea Monster, on 22 June 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

The models were in some weird thing called Animation Master. He may have the models, and not be able to open them as he no longer has the soft. I may be wrong, but it looks like he used some procedural textures on the models, which would make it doubtful that you could do a straight-export to Blender or Max, even if you had the original soft to work with.

Still worth an ask though. I'm sure we'd find a way.

Animation Master seems to be still in business, and has an import/export plug-in for Blender
https://sourceforge....ter%20importer/

So, if Chuck has the models and has permission to release them, there is hope.